is that they're useless unless they evolve, often into something less cute. The whole point of cutemons is to attract little girls. What little girl is going to want to evolve their cute Teddiursa into an ugly Ursaring? You can beat the game with a full team of babies and NFEs, but what little girl is going to do that over steamrolling the game with strong shillmons?tldr mainline games need to make babies and NFEs useful and endgame capable and have a good reason not to evolve them
>>58780068> mainline games need to make babies and NFEs useful and endgame capable Your Eviolite? Your affection bonuses? Your lack of any meaningful challenge in these games?
>>58780068the solution is to make strong cutemons, like the eeveelutions and tinkatonanyway pokemon's a multimedia franchise, so even if babies aren't the best choice in the main games they can still be enjoyed in other things, young girls are less likely to play the mainline games anyway
>>58780068It won't solve the Hall of Fame problem but having battle facilities with Little Cup rules or Babies Only format will at least give people a reason to breed babies and egg moves
>>58780068why not just make cute fully evolved pokemon? screaming tail, liligant and magearna are cute
>>58780068>The whole point of cutemons is to attract little girlsYes, that is their function. Selling merch and being virtual pets is a use. The same applies to rare spawns like Yanma. They're not useless, they're just useless for battles. Their use is encouraging daily play, using the Pokegear, and trading with friends.
Just take the transmog pill
>>58780068The cutemons also cuck mons with two stages out of getting another evolution because GameFreak will never break the sacred "a Pokemon line only has three stages" rule to keep it simple, we could've gotten Gorochu making a beautiful comeback but instead they made Pichu.
>>58780388>GameFreak will never break the sacred "a Pokemon line only has three stages" rule to keep it simpleWe know from the leaks that GF has considered giving all mons a fifth moveslot. They only abandoned the idea for balancing reasons. There are no "sacred rules". When they eventually see an opportunity for it, Charizard will get a proper evolution.
>>58780372> They're not useless, they're just useless for battles.So, Useless
>>58780406> Charizard will get a proper evolution.That would overshadow CHARIZARD by reducing it to an awkward NFE. That’s the main reason megas were made, so that CHARIZARD could evolve but still be the spotlight
>>58780372>Selling merch and being virtual pets is a use.No it isn’t
>>58780439Eevee has 8 evolutions, but the base form still gets attention. The NFE Eevee got a G-Max form and the special Partner form from LGPE. Eevee just headlined the TCG's most printed set of all time.The mechanics of Mega or Maxing don't have an impact on casual's appreciation. They don't engage with the games beyond a surface level playthrough, and they don't engage with the anime beyond short form content. There's also nothing preventing GF from making a semi-permanent form of evolution. Something more like Rotom or Deoxys, where it can be reverted with a key item or special location, but doesn't revert after battle
>>58780442Plushies and TCG do more to sustain Pokemon than competitive battles ever have. Especially during mid-late Gen 2, when baby Pokemon merch carried the brand. Pichu and Togepi were more important than Heracross of Tyranitar.
>>58780457Eevee is different because the entire family benefits from each other due to marketing synergy. Eevee has its place as a beloved mascot because it's not only cute, but emblematic of the whole family's purpose: A wide array of species and types, all stemming from this one little critter.When Charizard is shilled, Charmander and Charmeleon are almost never a part of it, because people are coming to Charizard for Charizard, not one of its previous forms.
>>58780482And by that same logic, introducing a new Chairzard doesn't rob the old one of its popularity. It doesn't matter if a new evolution is more linear or more permanent. Charizard has more value as a concept than it has as a party member.Even if it was a permanent evolution, that just gives casual players an excuse to have two in their party, similar to using Mew and Mewtwo.
>cutemons are useless
>>58780742That happened one time. One time because of a niche scenario during a very specific period of the metagame where it was the most optimal user for a Follow Me strategy, and then it never happened again.
>>58780771Clefairy sees consistently high use in doubles formats. Jumpluff has become a common sight in SV doubles. Pikachu is pretty great in ZA. Cutemons just need good tools.If baby Pokemon had an Evolite type item, or a way of abusing berries, then they could be a menace in doubles formats. Maybe a Plusle/Minun type synergy with their evolved forms (ie if Jynx and Smoochum are both active, Smoochum can't be damaged). Many of them already have support-focused movesets, they just lack the tools to stay in and use those moves.
>>58780413soulless mindset
>>58780372I'm not encouraged to hunt for Yanma because Yanma fucking sucks, so it's useless as a form of encouragement as well
>>58780080>2001
The cutemon hate is extremely forced. It's just a few fags that are mad cause they're too bad to beat a children's game with the pokemon they actually like.
>>58780916You say that, but dex completion is still the primary way the games keep casuals hooked. Look at any ZA thread and you'll see the same player pattern that was introduced with GSC. The only difference is that players can grind for special scans and don't have to wait 24 hours. The inclusion of bench resetting (and its official acknowledgement) is a direct response to how players would manipulate the in game clock for swarms and other dailies.I don't need a Rotom for ZA Ranked, but I'm still scanning for it because it's the only missing slot in my Dex. It triggers the same pavlovian reaction that missing Yanma had in 2000.
>>58780972In the past, it was more about insecure adults desperate to make Pokemon seem more grown up or complex. There's still some of that, especially with the reaction to the goofier Megas, but it's less common now. The pendulum swung away from that "everything should be cool like Garchomp" phase. Those mons are now treated like 13 year old Kevins.Now it's more insecure virgin "girls have cooties" coded. There's a certain level of whimsy they'll tolerate, stuff like Stunfisk, but only if it's actively unappealing or anti-normie.
>>58780068>tldr mainline games need to make babies and NFEs useful and endgame capable and have a good reason not to evolve themone franchise understood this issue from the very start and implemented the perfect system to solve it but pokemon autists get mad whenever I start that conversation. It easily puts Raichu in the spotlight as well
>>58781033>one franchise understood this issue from the very start and implemented the perfect system to solve it but pokemon autists get mad whenever I start that conversationEven if we agree that branch evolution is mechanically more interesting and improves gameplay, that doesn't mean it's a better system in terms of UX. There's a reason Pokemon have more emotional resonance than Digimon. GF has always understood the importance of making each Pokemon species feel special. This has been true across all forms of Pokemon media. Even post-Go, when the games tend to treat Pokemon like commodities to be farmed, they still find ways to make your pets feel special. Digimon has never struck a balance between "Digimon are recycled date, if it dies just hatch another pet that looks the same" and "Agumon is special because of Tai, so we need an Agumon lead that acts like that one, but is also unique and disposable"
>>58781055>. GF has always understood the importance of making each Pokemon species feel specia
>>58781055>Even if we agree that branch evolutionstopped reading as that wasn't what I was refering to.Evolving for battles is what I was refering to. Imagine if your Pokémon can be in any stage you want it to be outside of battle and powers up into its higher stages specifically for battle. Essentially, every stage can be a mega evolution
>>58781062Pokemon draws on tokusatsu monsters of the week. The anime perfects that formula. Monsters have unique themes and powers and a B-plot that revolves around their power. The Pokedex was specifically designed to replicate those yearly tokusatsu annuals.Digimon, despite having more toku DNA and literally having Toei's tokusatsu designers, fails to do justice to every single species like Pokemon does. A lot of Digimon are only used as fodder or as tertiary characters, even within their intro/focus episode. Pokemon always gives every species a spotlight, except for the Porygon family.
>>58780068Pokemon needs to go the Digimon route of being able to max out a mon’s stats no matter its evolutionary stage. It’s fucking stupid that a franchise with so much focus on the power of friendship won’t allow a NFE mon to be as strong as its evolution if you put enough care and effort into it.
>>58781083>Imagine if your Pokémon can be in any stage you want it to be outside of battle and powers up into its higher stages specifically for battle. Essentially, every stage can be a mega evolutionIt's a neat idea, but it makes evolution feel less exciting. The only time Pokemon disincentivizes evolution was when stone evos had no level up moves. At least with Mega evolution, the choice is purely strategic, rather than punishing players who want to evolve and play with new toys. Digimon is rooted too firmly in that Tamagotchi mentality, which makes it less adept at selling toys. Pokemon only has this problem when it comes to mid-stage evolutions, they almost always serve a utilitarian purpose that doesn't improve gameplay and is ill-fit for marketing and merch.
>>58781055>GF has always understood the importance of making each Pokemon species feel special. This has been true across all forms of Pokemon media. Even post-Go, when the games tend to treat Pokemon like commodities to be farmed, they still find ways to make your pets feel special.Squawkabilly is just Discount Fearow in terms of type combo and BST with Basculin's "it has different abilities based on its coloration!" gimmick, except it only applies to Hidden Abilities so the average player won't see that in gameplay.
>>58781145Shiny pokemon also have unique colouration with no added benefit. They exist for collecting.
>>58781112>It's a neat idea, but it makes evolution feel less excitingdoesn't have to be. Just make an NPC who goes "hey, if your evolved Pokémon has enough friendship, I can teach it how to become its pre-evolved stage again outside of battle" the have the anime do a slightly different take where the anime Pikachu learns it cantemporarily super sayain in Raichu then suepr sayain 2 into mega raichu. Evolution in the anime has already been slightly different than the games.As a side note, evolution during battle is something from both the Pokémon and Digimon anime that I wish both games would actually implement. Evolving outside of battle is so much more lame. Digimon Survive and Mega evolution in Pokémon are the only things that came close to scratching that itch
>>58781055>Digimon has never struck a balance between "Digimon are recycled date, if it dies just hatch another pet that looks the same" and "Agumon is special because of Tai, so we need an Agumon lead that acts like that one, but is also unique and disposable"So just like how Pikachu the species was never able to escape Ash's Pikachu's shadow until the big redesign coming in gen 10?
Clefairy is better than Clefable LOL
>>58780068This is why they need to bring PMD back. Evolution there only gives like +2 stats in everything. Easily gettable elsewhere. My best Pokemon was a Serene Grace Ancient Power Togetic that slaughtered everything while getting boosted
>>58781183Smash Pikachu exists as its own thing. Detective Pikachu is its own thing. XY had a Viridian Forest remake with its own wild Pikachu encounters. GMax Pikachu is its own thing. Despite there being hundreds more instances of explicitly "Ash Pikachu", it's never been pigeonholed in the way Augumon and Gabumon are. At least they try to explain why Pikachu appears in certain locations or in-universe elements. It's a common species of rat, and it has in-universe popularity. There is no attempt to contextualize the appearance of Agumon and Gabumon in works outside the Adventure universe. They just show up for MCU "please clap" moments.
>>58781244that happened in the latest Story games but that's pretty cherrypicked when Digimon Savers, Digimon Survive, the giant Agumon from the Digimon Adventure special/Digimon movie, and countless other examples of explicitly different individuals of Agumon and also Gabumon exist.There's also a thousand other digimon who often have appearances and roles drastically different than each other. There's been a surprising amount of benevolent Myotismon despite being the king of evil.I really did not mean or want to derail this into a Digimon thread with my initial post. I'm mostly interested to talk about how Pokémon can improve its NFEs
>>58781244>Smash PikachuUses the anime voice.>Detective PikachuEveryone except Tim hears the anime voice.>XYHas the anime voice for its cry.>GMaxIs irrevocably tied to the anime because it's based on the design it had before the anime demanded Pikachu be redesigned so it could be animated more easily, and will be even more of an Ashnime relic because Gen 10's Pikachu is even more far removed.
>>58781268>There's also a thousand other digimon who often have appearances and roles drastically different than each other. There's been a surprising amount of benevolent Myotismon despite being the king of evil.I know, but the face of the brand is handcuffed to a specific incarnation. Imagine if Pokemon pivoted the games after the anime took off. Digimon did that, Metabots did that. If Ruby and Sapphire starred Ash Ketchum as the playable character. They always kept a bit of distinction between the different forms of media. There were 3 Pokemon manga all within the same early period, all with drastically different takes. Sometimes Sabrina is a villain, sometimes she's a repressed weirdo, sometimes she just stands in the middle of a gym. TCG assigning its own modified type chart. There was always an obvious distinction between the anime and other forms of media. Even Yellow present different or alternate origin story for Pikachu and the other starters.The only time Agumon is allowed to be its own species without Adventure looming over it are media that predate Adventure. Digimon World, the old TCG, and the V-Pets. Even when Agumon is explicitly a different guy, it can't overcome the meta-context for its inclusion. Best example of that is Savers.
>>58781289The voice isn't the issue. Ikue Ohtani's contract grandfathers her roles. She has to approve any use of her voice, even for international works.Pokken has Pikachu as a mascot, but it has multiple Pikachu and it's never presented like the anime one. I think Meowth has a lot more trouble escaping the "it's that guy" syndrome. Meowth is just a bipedal species of cat now. Purrloin is also forced into this strange bipedal pose. Pikachu is popular enough where they can introduce multiple instances without fear of it leeching away from the main guy. Agumon, like Meowth, can't afford to split itself like that.
>>58780068>mainline games need to make babies and NFEs useful and endgame capable and have a good reason not to evolve themThey already are endgame capable and they learn better moves faster than their evolutions. I don't think the people complaining about this have ever tried using the pokemon they supposedly like so much. I just beat crystal with 2 glooms, teddiursa, and phanpy in my party. It wasn't hard.
>>58780068They gave babies a niche in TCGP, they let you give your other mons energy on turn 1 and don't require any energy of their ownOr maybe it's time to just understand that this franchise isn't all about competitive battling, but like that's ever going to happen.
>>58780830>clefairynot a babymon and it has an actually usable statline and ability>jumplufffast tailwind user with a bunch of other support moves so of course it sees use in doublesalso both of those have nothing to do with the post you replied to, which was about a mon with a very narrow niche that only existed once>babymons getting crutchesor you could just use their fully evolved form with the same support set, except it's supporting a much stronger pokemon that doesn't require special snowflake mechanical crutches to function
>>58781412>Or maybe it's time to just understand that this franchise isn't all about competitive battlingIf that were the case, the videogames would still have casual side modes like Contests where babies could flourish despite being statistically dogshit, and they wouldn't be hosting an annual competitive worldwide tournament.
>>58781412> it's time to just understand that this franchise isn't all about competitive battling, If that’s the case why do all the Pokémon that matter like. CHARIZARD, the other Kanto starters, Lucario, etc get constant buffs and broken forms in the mainline, as well as a consistent presence in the PvP of spin offs like TCG, etc.
>>58780972Oh shit I knew bad at the game schizo posted on /vp/!
>>58781473>all the favoritism>still hasn't won any of the largest official tournamentsjobberzard lol
>>58781473Because new forms can sell merch on nostalgia and cool/cute factor. Strong Pokemon are more appealing, and having them appear strong in the anime generally translates to how they are in the games. Strong Pokemon make for better chase cards to sell more booster packs and starter decks. Base stats pretty much always translate to "cool factor" revenue, unless the Pokemon is made "uncool", like how Goodra is less popular than Goomey.
>>58780388>game freak will never break a rule10 years ago we got a legendary with evolutions
>>58781511Now if we could get an actually usable one that we get at the beginning of the story. Think a fusion of Cosmog and Koraidon/Miraidon as far as their role in the story goes. The issue with legendaries is that they're given so late there's no time to form an attachment with them as a team member but they can't give them to you early because you'd steamroll the game. Koraidon/Miraidon was a good step in making the legendary feel like a companion and not just a trophy for beating the main story but you still couldn't use it until the final battle
>>58781429>clefairy>not a babymonthe thread is about cutemons in general, not specifically babymons. Moving goalpsts, are we>>58781429>or you could just use their fully evolved form with the same support setclefairy has a valuable support ability that clefable doesn't
