What was the ACTUAL reason behind Kanto being smaller in GSC, compared to RGBY Kanto? Why were some Kanto locations cut, like Cerulean Cave, Viridian Forest, Pewter Museum, Seafoam Islands, Safari Zone, etc?Was it because:1. Time constraints during development2. Not enough cartridge space to fit in everything3. The devs saw GSC Kanto as already "complete" because in Gen 2 Kanto served as the postgame, so it didn't need to be as big as in Gen 1 in order to feel complete So which one is it?
>>58785304Because the structure and pacing of RBY Kanto weren't arbitrary, it's designed to support a story from start to end. Even if you kept everything from RBY in GSC, a lot of those areas would be pointless because that structure was never meant to work as post script. Kanto serves the same role that Cerulean Cave did in the original games. It's supposed to be a gym gauntlet, it's not trying to be a second quest 30+ hour campaign.
bit of column b, bit of column cit was already extremely difficult to fit kanto in there along with johto, it required iwata (may he rest in peace) to assist with optimization, and even then they couldn't fit the whole thing in there so it had to be shrunk significantly but also, yeah it serves its purpose as postgame extremely well, so it doesn't really need to be as big as it was in gen 1hgss of course rectified this and restored kanto to its former glory and then some
>>58785323>It's supposed to be a gym gauntletSo why don't nuzlockers like it? That's all they've reduced the games down to anyway
>>58785340>it required iwata (may he rest in peace) to assist with optimization, and even then they couldn't fit the whole thing in there so it had to be shrunk significantlyThis isn't accurate. Iwata's compression had to do with load times. His compression tool makes battles start quicker, reducing the time it takes to go from from "battle start" flashing to move selection by a couple of seconds.
>>58785344Nuzlockers don't like wiping either. It's suboptimal. Too risky.
>>58785344Nuzlocker opinions need not apply, their takes don't make sense within the context of the franchise to begin with
>>58785340>and even then they couldn't fit the whole thing in there so it had to be shrunk significantlyIs this factual, of just an opinion?I know Iwata's help was ESSENTIAL in order to fit Kanto next to Johto in the cartridge, but who's to say that they had to shrink Kanto even AFTER Iwata's help?What I mean is, maybe the devs made Kanto smaller on purpose (to feel more like a postgame area) even tho there was more space left on the cartridge? I suspect that this is the case, since they didn't restore any of those locations in Crystal, even tho Crystal was on a bigger cartridge.
>>58785375>even tho Crystal was on a bigger cartridge.Were they not all 2 megabytes?
>>58785356my mistake
>>58785408>Were they not all 2 megabytes?I always thought that Crystal was on a bigger capacity cartridge, because Crystal was GBC exclusive, while GS were compatible with the original Gameboy.
>>58785304A fair mix of all three, if we're being honest.>after Tajiri had his meltie and gave up on vidya development forever, GameFreak already spent a considerable amount of time mindlessly floundering around without a clue until Masuda intervened, so they really REALLY needed to get back on track before the Orange Islands arc of the anime got too long for its own good>the cartridge limitations made themselves apparent if only because of how unoptimized the game was due to GameFreak being GameFreak, in a world where they had over six years to develop GS maybe they could've addressed this>most of the dungeons were MIA or heavily truncated because they would've served zero practical purpose, if they just let you get all the old legendaries in this game there'd be even less incentive to engage with the Time Machine trading mechanics (which either requires a significant trust exercise with another kid that your shit doesn't get stolen because someone's gameboy needs to be borrowed, or that you need to purchase a second gameboy to begin with in order to conduct the trade) because they still wanted to incentivize the purchase of RGBY despite GS's technological superiority
>>58785452From what I understand, reason number 3 is much stronger, making reasons number 1 and 2 almost unnecessary.Even if they (Game Freak) had more time and more cartridge space, why would they bring back Cerulean Cave or Seafoam Islands or Viridian Forest, when they don't serve the same purpose anymore? Especially since these locations already got equivalents in Johto? Ilex Forest is Viridian Forest, Whirl islands are Seafoam Islands, and Mt. Silver is Cerulean Cave. Oh, and the Bug Catching Contest is the Safari Zone replacement.But then arises the question: why did HGSS restore most of these locations, in that case? Well, first of all, because there was a different director (Morimoto) and more importantly, because the Time Capsule wasn't available anymore, so there was no way to get Mewtwo (Cerulean Cave) or Articuno (Seafoam Islands), etc.
>>58785478>But then arises the question: why did HGSS restore most of these locations, in that case?'Cause it's fucking awesome
>>58785480>'Cause it's fucking awesomeEh... I kinda STILL like Crystal more than HGSS for 3 reasons:1. Graphics and Art Style2. Music3. Room Customization for the Player Character's RoomIdk, maybe I'm weird, but HGSS just lacks something imo. Something that Crystal has.
>>58785304gf were incompetent and a different dev (idr who) came through, fixed their game, and tossed in a bare-bones kanto for them to work off of while he was there because of how easy it was for him; and gf didn't edit it really, just keeping the in-development version in the final.
>>58785506You are entitled to your own opinion.
>>58785507>and gf didn't edit it really, just keeping the in-development version in the final.I really doubt that part
>>58785507kanto was literally one map in the beta, get real
>>58785436not your fault, that was a common myth, likely spread by Game Freak. "Iwata added the bonus second act to an already mostly complete game" looks far better than "We twiddled our thumbs until the deadline was almost up then when we finally got around to working we realized were too stupid to optimize our game correctly so Iwata had to come over program the game so that's its even playable for stupid kids will think we're actually competent and not stupid pedos who needed their CEO to bail us out"
>>58785549Didn't SM or USUM have text (in GameFreak's office) that said something about Iwata helping them?
>>58785304
>>58785585congrats, you understood the point of this thread
>>58785585i chuckle every time i see thishow could they possibly fit all of kanto in gsc it's a technical marvel!!!
>>58785652to be fair it doesn't feel much smaller when you're actually playing the game, except for the parts like viridian forest which were merged with the surrounding routesi can understand how the fact that the routes were shrunk down could go unnoticed, hell i didn't notice it until viridian forest when i first played this gamethe feeling and general path of most of the routes was kept more or less the same, albeit smaller; id say they did a pretty good job with it
>>58785652It's more region to explore than every game that would come after it
I agree with a lot of gen2 criticisms but one thing the fans got right - Kanto is supposed to be a quick run through. HGSS tried to expand it and it served no purpose. The trainer is already a Champion, they are only looking for powerful trainers at that point. You think you want expanded Kanto but you don't. There's a few things that are lazy like no Safari Zone but the general layout was fine.
>>58785933>HGSS tried to expand it and it served no purpose.I beg to differ, more stuff to explore is always nice
>>58785843It's also the only game where it makes sense to talk about a postgame. Everywhere else it's just bullshit that should have been added to the main game that was cut and put later because of this idiotic idea about postgames.God this artificial division between game and post game pisses me off so much.
>>58785304We already know it was due to space constraints. Gamefreak struggled to complete the game before Iwata helped and provided compression tools.
>>58785363>nuzlockers after taking a shit and realizing they have to wipe
>>58786045Emerald's postgame makes perfect sense. It's the ultimate challenge and wouldn't make sense for it to be playable before you beat the game.>but I WANNA play with the BF gimmicks and I don't wanna wait!!!They have the battle tents just for you
>>58785304Because it's basically an afterthought.>GF made GS but they could not fit it on cartridge.>Iwata descended on them and magically cut game to the size that left them with plenty of space.>But it was almost end of development and in few weeks they were supposed to finish the game and send it to production.>Hurr durr we have map and assets for Kanto ready so lets just cut down and rework few mapsp and put them as "Kanto 3 years later".
>only one person ITT has pointed out that Iwata's compression tools are for loading speed during battles, not storage size for Kanto>everyone still pretends Iwata's compression has anything to do with Kanto anyway/vp/ is never beating the illiteracy allegations
