>>58857761
Don't balance the levels of everything around Mahogany Town as if you went there right after Ecruteak

>>58857761 (OP)
Gen 1 not existing and Gold and Silver being the first game. Then Johto would be the first region, worshipped by devs, coddled by TPC, and Hoe Merrick and the other shills would endlessly glaze it instead of using it as a scapegoat and normroids would bleat in agreement because they can’t think for themselves
There I just saved Johto without making unnecessary or retarded changes

You’re welcome

>>58857761
Just let badge order dictate level scaling like in RGBY, rather than flattening everything after Morty until it reconvenes again at the Radio Tower Takeover.
Same for Kanto, but everyone (except Janine, sticking true to worldbuilding, just make her your first Kanto Gym) should follow a baseline of having a team at Level 50 minimum.

larvitar before goldenrod

Gym leader rematches, something telling you to do the E4 rematches before red. Otherwise level curve is fine. Nuzlockers cry about it because they level up to the cap instantly instead of doing anything with under leveled teams as the game is intended to be played.

>>58857761
All Gen 2 Pokemon being obtainable and common in Johto

>>58857824
the gible gambit

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Look I don’t think Gen 2 is perfect but watching the fanbase try to “fix” it is always so cringe. Like that one Pokétuber who made the Crystal Legacy ROM that made Larvitar available before even battling Falkner. They don’t understand that having to wait for Larvitar was done for a reason; you can already reflective one psuedo legendary as early as Goldenrod, of course they’d postpone the second. And in Crystal you can receive Larvitar as soon as you enter Kanto, which is more than generous.
And a lot of the gym leader team makeovers don’t make any seem thematically, they just give them a bunch of random Johto mons because muh underrepresented Johto mons NEED to be used on NPC teams even though most of them are purposefully hidden behind side mechanics. All I can say I’m glad that none of these Johto haters are actual devs, their ideas are always terrible.

People who dislike Gen 2 can often articulate why they dislike it
People who think it's the best can usually only say "umm it's the best because I played it when I was a kid and Lugia is cool"

>>58857963
do agree with your points, but it's a bit weird that bugsy didn't have a ledian and falkner had no hoothoot though, right? like ledian and hoothoot are like, early game mons, and yet they had nothing.

>>58857969
tsm
there is nothing johto does which is objectively better and therefore rationally defensible

>>58857963
Pokemon are accessories and not only being stuck with mostly lame shit but too being denied the cool shit does not sit well with anyone who plays Pokemon.

>>58857963
The gym rematches thing is extra funny because the e4 rematch team in HG are just throwing more Hoenn stuff on there rather than stuffing everything full of Johto. Modders once again mischaracterize the npcs

>>58857963
Eh I kinda agree with putting Larvitar somewhere like Dark Cave as a rare encounter
The issue with putting pseudos too late in the game is it makes their evolutions feel pointless when you can just grind them out immediately rather than actually having to use Larvitar and Pupitar for a long time. It's not like they're particularly strong in the first 2 stages.
I think the most appropriate placement for Larvitar is probably Mt. Mortar or a different part of Union/Dark cave you can't access without surf or strength.

>>58857980
The boss of Sprout Tower has a hoothoot. Pidgeotto fits Falkner's personality better, anyway.

>>58857997
Johto's map is pretty well designed
One of the things I like about Johto's design is you get to Goldenrod nice and early and it's got a great central location so it feels more like a proper "home base" while you explore the region.
This is one of the things I really don't like about Hoenn is that it takes forever to get to Lilycove. Literally 3 times as many badges as Goldenrod and even 1 more than Celadon. By that time Lilycove doesn't even feel special the way Goldenrod and Celadon do not to mention it doesn't even have a gym either.
Goldenrod's layout is a little annoying but otherwise all the good big cities in Pokemon games feel like they were following Goldenrod's example more than any of the rest.

>>58857963
lol they could have easily swapped the availability of dratini and larvitar and gave morty a misdreavus instead of kanto's ghost we've already fought 100 times and you wouldn't have to come up with cringe cope posts like this

>>58857761
People can stop being bad at a fucking game for children

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>>58857761
>Name one (1) single change which could have saved Johto and its reputation
If it had its own sinnoh team

>>58858119
Pupitar has a BST of 410, up there with such giants as Magcargo, Corsola, and a few 2nd stage starters. Also the same BST as Gabite with worse offensive stats, a worse typing, and an extra 7 levels to go. Raising that nigga to 55 in a regular playthrough would make Tyranitar way more rewarding that shoving it at the very end of the game where you can just slam it through E4 with exp share a bunch of times.

>>58857963
For me personally its even more cringe to claim enemy teams are thematical

>johto itself
Make rare johtomons like yanma good in battle so they still feel rewarding to find when it's not 1999 anymore and yanma isn't a novel concept
>johto's reputation
Release HGSS during gen 6 or later because most johto hate is a reaction to dszoomers being annoying about HGSS

>>58857824
Most early gens have late psuedos, only johto is hated for it
>>58857766
evey Pokémon game has shit balance, only johto gets hate for it
>>58858648
>yanma
Why should yanmna be made with years after 1999 in mind? no other generation has Pokémon made to appeal to people who don’t even exist yet.
>annoying fans
All pokefags are annoying , why is HGSS the only on punished for it

>>58857963
Why didn't they give Larvitar Dratini's spot in Goldenrod then? It's not like it would break anything. It's worse than Geodude and Graveler for almost the whole game because of its inferior early movepool and lower physical stats. Getting the Tyranitar is your reward for putting up with that shitmon for 98% of the game.

>thematically
>purposefully hidden
Hate these buzzwords. Stop making up fanfic garbage and pretending they're real.

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>>58858182
here's johto's sinnoh team

>>58857761
gen 6+ exp share

>>58858683
Let me guess. You need more?

>>58858740
Yes. You don't get Ampharos in Crystal.

>>58858148
slate port is more like celadon or goldenrod in terms of being a hub

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>>58858676
Sounds to me like you don't understand the design choices behind Gen 2. That probably sounds annoying but you have to remember the formula we know today wasn't established yet, that wasn't until Gen 3. Johto mons were never meant to be the selling point of GSC, the entire game is more so Kanto DLC. It's fine if you dislike it for that reason but to cite standards that weren't even established at the time is just retarded. You're viewing it through the lens of Gens 3-5 when you should be viewing it as its own self-contained entry.

>Hate these buzzwords. Stop making up fanfic garbage and pretending they're real.
Yeah right let's just disregard elementary game design and shit out a wish fulfilment ROM tailormade for zoomers with negative attention spans.
Again, Dratini is made available early instead of Larvitar because Johto mons aren't the selling point. Dratini has already been established in RBY so they went ahead and made it easier to obtain this time around, why would they do the same for Larvitar when it takes on the role of Dratini in GSC? It's the Dratini of GSC, what's the point in making it obtainable early if it's yet to be established? If you have trouble understanding this concept then I advise you get a good night's sleep tonight so that you'll be ready when the short bus comes to pick you up tomorrow morning

>>58858683
Fuck Ampharos slow as fuck and always taking unnecessary damage from trash mons.

>>58858851
gen 1 already established the formula, then gen 2 did the 3 starter 8 badges shit again but worse. the real problem with johtofags is they try to undermine later gens because they didn't do 2 regions or whatever nonsense, the complete opposite of what you're saying

making useless shitmons rare is the antithesis of "elementary game design". the reward does not correlate to the rarity or effort needed to obtain and use it compared to common mons like geodude.

this nu uh fanfic "excuse all the dogshit because it's its own thing" garbage is like yawnieposting but every post is 10x longer than they need to be

>>58858676
>>58858954
Please excuse gschizo, he lives in his own little delusion.

>>58858954
>>58858965
no one's discrediting later gens for not adhering to GSC's foundation, that's what you're doing to GSC for not being a Gen 5 game. And I'm not even a johtofag, I enjoy the first 5 gens equally each for their own reasons, GSC being no exception.
Nothing's stopping you from steamrolling the game with geodude. But us alleged gschizos would rather enjoy Gen 2 the way it's meant to be experienced. If you insist on writing that off as fanfic then you should just stick to later gens instead of claiming that GSC are bad titles for reasons beyond your understanding

>>58857963
/Thread

Polished Crystal is the most reasonable one giving you Larvitar at a hidden area after gym 7, but Larvirtars before the first gyms or at around Goldenrod is just eyerolling

>>58859012
>enjoy Gen 2 the way it's meant to be experienced
Same, see >>58858683

>>58857761
6 is easily the worst

If you hate gen 2 you have no soul and you agree with joe merrick the reddit twitter faggot

>>58857761
Killing Pokemon Mentally Challenged before he could spew lies about Johto.

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It's sad how most Johtoddlers missed out on the peak of Pokemania. Thinking kids were excited about babymon filler episodes and Ash taking 5 months to go from the 2nd to 3rd badge, then 3 more months to the 4th is delusional.

>>58858683
>Ampharos
Don't see the appeal, Magneton is superior in everyway

>>58859338
>trashnime
Yikes

>>58859338
>It's sad how most Johtoddlers missed out on the peak of Pokemania.
I know for a fact you didn't live through it. I did. Johto is still the better game compared to the unfinished, unbalanced diarrhea that is RBY.

The anime, however, has always been utter dogshit, objectively speaking. Only a manchild who clings to nostalgia like a security blanket would say otherwise.

>>58859364
>>58859385
everyone knows the anime is what mainly drove the pokemania hype lmao
kids were skipping school to watch mewtwo strikes back

>>58857963
Nah pseudos make way more sense as very rare encounters before the halfway point

Those fuckers are garbage in their first stage, generally mediocre in the second stage and amazing in their third stage so having it actually available early makes it so that you actually go through the growth journey and make an investment throughout most of the game. Actual zero to hero shit.

Instead of just getting something to powerlevel for an hour or two so you get a big boy for the last 10-20% of the game (ofc that would remain an option with earlier pseudos)

>>58859431
sorry but gsc were their own thing and you just don't understand
just kidding :)

>>58859347
the appeal is it's an electric type available before the 1st gym

retard

>>58859445
To be fair it isn’t available before Falkner in the original GSC

>>58857761
If i could only make one change i would connect the routes differently to make playthrough less linear.

>>58857761
>its reputation
Who cares
I believe the extra space from Iwata's tech wizardry should have been used on expanding Johto and not adding in Kanto.
I always hate going back to Kanto in Gen 2 and 4 because it feel like a shell of its former self

>>58858148
The home base in Hoenn would be Mauville, which does a better job at letting you backtrack to previous locations than Goldenrod does.

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>>58857761
I wish they got rid of Kanto and greatly expanded the National Park to make the west side of Johto more interconnected. The gardens and landscapes in Japanese national parks are so scenic and beautiful. I'd rather we saw more of that then trudge through a worse version of the previous game again.

>>58859461
i think ecruteak is a better central hub city than goldenrod

>>58859394
>everyone knows the anime is what mainly drove the pokemania hype lmao
It really wasn't. It was the advertising. I remember that commercial where the fat fuck shoves the pokemon in a bus in a trash compactor more than anything out of the Ashnime.

>Skipping School to watch mewtwo strikes back
Shame it was utter dogshit. Now the IRL mew distributions, those were events.

>>58857761
ah joe merrick once again demonstrating why he's a fucking retard with no taste. in a world where let's go piss, the buggy release of gen 9 and dexit exists he targets the region with the most fucking SOUL

>>58859460
Iwata’s tech wizardry had nothing to do with putting Kanto in the game, it was optimizing the game so that it would be able to run at a playable speed because game freak is full of retards who can’t code for shit

>>58859484
you were not around, zoomie. no kid forgot about ash saying goodbye to butterfree or charmander's tail almost going out in the rain. and of course there's the porygon incident

Nothing. Johto was perfect, and the peak of the series, and it's been downhill ever since.

>HeartGold/SoulSilver

dogshit imitations of perfection made to prop up the failure called "Sinnoh".

>>58859499
this but for paldea

>>58859493
NTA but chronically online zoomers like myself learned about all of that shit in the late 2000s - early 2010s. Pokémania doesn’t mean anything to us we’ve always had an autistic fixation on the series no matter what public opinion was, oldfag.

Ashmimefags are biggest fake fans

>>58859503
i'm not denouncing you for not experiencing pokemania. you wouldn't know about them if the oldfags weren't still talking about it. i'm calling out the retard who thinks the anime didn't influence anything.

>>58859502
Based

>>58859484
IDK man. I still see a lot of normalfags reminiscing about the Indigo League Ashnime. The games just get brushed off as baby games.

>>58858683
this, except /Feraligatr

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>>58858954
absol-ute btfo

>>58859012
>I'm parroting johtoddlers' talking points I've seen them futilly spam time & again even though I'm a zoomer because HGSS was part of my childhood

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>>58859338
truly grim indeed

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>>58859385
>Johto is still the better game
by what metrics? it's a sidegrade at best and a downgrade in many areas
and you're trying to claim it was balanced—let alone better balanced?! outrageous

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>>58859460
>feel like
*is

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>>58859462

>>58859493
I sure was there, but I have killed my nostalgia because it's a useless parasite on me as a person that chains me to the past rather than letting me grow and improve as a person.

Also, you didn't remember the porgyon incident because it didn't air outside of Japan, so you're the zoomie here.

>>58859524
As I've said, nostalgia is a cancer. I rewatched the first season of the anime back in 2021 in the original Japanese because I tried watching the dub and it was just too cringey for me to handle, and even the Japanese was boring as shit.

>>58859758
>Nerfed psychic types with the split of Special into attack/Defense
>Added tons of new mechanics including breeding, which lets you have far more control over your pokemon's stats and moves
>Shiny Pokemon, a staple of the franchise
>Most of the Gen 1 bugs have been patched out, for example the type chart actually fucking works correctly
>Steel and Dark further nerf Psychic types and add more depth to the game
>Movepools are slightly better
>You can't just run through the game with a Psychic type and sweep everything anymore, you actually need to consider your team comp

Gen 2 is an objective improvement over gen 1 in every way, just like gen 3 is an improvement on gen 2 and gen 4 is an improvement on gen 3. It wasn't until gen 5 where the game stagnated mechanically, and then went downhill with gen 6 onward.

>>58860371
>didn't watch the 1999 simpsons episode referencing it
lol.

>>58857766
I think it should be the other way actually. The game would have to be reshuffled a bit, but make the player go to Mahogany for Surf, with Pryce as the 5th Gym Leader.
Since he's locked behind Rocket Hideout, this gives 3 Gyms between the two major Rocket sections, alleviating the endless onslaught at least a bit.

>>58857810
Sticking true to worldbuilding is exactly what they did. No Gym Leader except for Blue should be a real match to the E4, otherwise they'd be in there.

>>58860371
>and then went downhill with gen 6
5*

>>58857761
It all boils down to zoomers being culturally cucked. They don't value games that are fun to play but rather fun to watch, this is why zoom zooms despise Johto, Johto is closer to a simulation game than an RPG, you need to play it daily which is bad for the cucked zoom zooms who want to watch 20 hour streams.

>>58857766
It makes no sense for Pryce to be so low level. When the west side of Johto is basically a straight line, the region is too linear and divided for people to suddenly think about exploring Mahogany naturally. When you get to Cianwood and beat Chuck because it's the badge order, no one is thinking "gee I wonder what's to the east of Ecruteak, let's fly back and explore that first," it's more like "I'm gonna give Amphy his medicine as I was told to do."

>>58857761
Remove Kanto post game to focus on Jhoto alone

>>58857761
HGSS

i think it's really funny that like 90% of genwarring outside of /vp/ is just desperately trying to convince you that either "johto is le bad actually" or that "unova is le good actually"
really makes you think

>>58858665
>evey Pokémon game has shit balance, only johto gets hate for it
proof?

I liked Johto for the music and worldbuilding…

>>58860371
>Gen 2 is an objective improvement over gen 1 in every way
>gen 4 is an improvement on gen 3
neither of these are true

>Nerfed psychic types with the split of Special into attack/Defense
You clearly don't even know why Psychic was good; it had just about nothing to do with not having a SPC split
>30% chance to drop
>90 BP
>115+ in stat
>Amnesia
>Hypnosis
>Recover
>no resistences except itself
you should have tried playing the game instead of parroting outdated talking points

>Added tons of new mechanics including breeding, which lets you have far more control over your pokemon's stats and moves
that's one (1) mechanic

>Shiny Pokemon, a staple of the franchise
can't have a perfect IV shiny

>Most of the Gen 1 bugs have been patched out, for example the type chart actually fucking works correctly
it added it's own bugs like HP slow scroll

>Steel and Dark further nerf Psychic types and add more depth to the game
this is just you trying to split the first point

>Movepools are slightly better
in what sense? now you have to play the spikes-spin minigame and you get lazy fanficshit like Lovely Kiss on a tenth of the dex
>You can't just run through the game with a Psychic type and sweep everything anymore
you can still do it with a Water type, nothing has changed

>>58861464
prove it

>>58861464
i can smell the seethe coming from your screen y*wnie

>>58857761
Gen1 is the worst by far. It's riddled with bugs, trash movepools, ugliest graphipd, less mechanics, etc. What the fuck is he talking about

>>58857761
>Ash encountered a pack of Houndour on his way to Goldenrod? Maybe I can find one in Ilex Forest too!

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Easy, remove all the useless babies that need a fucking incubator to survive into a self-reliant lifeform.