He doesn't really use the cymbals or the kick drum in the RS battle themes for some reason, with the only drum kit instrument being the repeating "2 + 4 beat" snare for the most part. He seemed to prefer to use the timpani for the "lower" part of the percussion track in the battle themes which is a strange choice I'm struggling to understand. Some battle themes use the crash cymbal sparingly (like before the loop in the trainer battle theme, or the hand claps in the Elite Four battle theme) but not consistently. The difference between Masuda's battle compositions can be heard starkly with Ichinose's Frontier Brain battle theme which opens with fast crash cymbals and a high hat rhythm throughout with kicks introduced later. One of my ROM hack ideas is to add proper drum tracks to the Emerald battle themes just to see how it sounds.
>>59043885i like this post.
>>59044268Why?
>>59043885I mean just look at Clover. To my knowledge, every piece of music in Clover is rendered using the vanilla soundboard of emerald.That was the potential they could have reached.
Based superautist. Lucky for you I have a hyperfixation on Pokemon battle music so I'll at least weigh in. Masuda's favorite instrument is actually the timpani, which is why he utilizes them so much here. This is also why Cyrus' and Ghetsis' themes go heavier on the timpanis, as the DS sound hardware was more developed. He likely didn't get too creative or ornate with the drums in RSE because percussion wasn't used for battle themes at all in RBY/GSC, and adapting to the RSE soundfont was more a process of determining which instruments appropriately emphasized the main melody, harmonic lines, and counterpoint which I'd say he specializes in moreso than sophisticated orchestration.Ichinose was classically trained and Masuda was not, so in general Ichinose's compositions subscribe to a more canonical musical form. Masuda's work is what I would describe as outsider art or outsider music, which makes it incredibly distinguished but also less refined in certain cases. I personally prefer Masuda's battle music as I find the other composers' attempts somewhat muddled and confused in comparison, but Ichinose definitely put in an honest effort with the Frontier Brain themes.
Is there an actual benefit to using more drums?
>>59043885Tried to make it sound more orchestral, I guess. I like it. It's distinctive.
>>59043885Does their interview about the soundtrack mention this at all?(Also damn Masuda looks so young here compared to now)
>>59043885>>59044342Masuda seems to prefer not to use percussion/basslines (I am not a music person)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9R8xm6gTg
>>59044329music autism is preferable to battle autism
>>59045303I felt an indescribable sadness after seeing him so old in the announcement for Pokepark Kanto last year
>>59043885
Didn’t need them
>>59043885>The difference between Masuda's battle compositions can be heard starkly with Ichinose's Frontier Brain battle theme which opens with fast crash cymbals and a high hat rhythm throughout with kicks introduced later.You mean the theme that's only better than Junichi's worst tracks in the game like the rival battle theme and gym battle theme?Wild Battle, Trainer Battle, and Champion Battle are all perfection, so whatever choices he made were the correct ones.
>>59047078What’s wrong with the rival theme?
>>59045303
>>59047078
>>59047082https://youtu.be/5_OnO3x3oUUthe tone and mood is lame and unbombastic outside of :32–:46compare it to the dppt where the light-heartedness at least makes sense; but they still contrast with for example the gsc theme which is both compelling on its own merit as well as fitting for the character
>>59047109go relisten to themmy rankings are at least mostly correct
>>59043885>>59047078I never liked the Frontier Brain theme because it sounded way too stylistically different from all the battle themes in RSE and FRLG (and GSC), never knew Masuda did all the battle themes in RSE while Ichinose only did the Frontier Brain theme thoughIt's strange since I liked his battle themes in GSC (unless those are also Masuda, I know the Kanto remixes are all Ichinose at least)
>>59047416it's not terrible but Platinum's blows it out of the water
>>59044342>determining which instruments appropriately emphasized the main melody, harmonic lines, and counterpointThis is what modern Pokemon music (3DS and onwards) has lost. It's most apparent in the music for ORAS, LGPE, and BDSP. Everything sounds muddled, it's harder to pick out an instrument and hear the countermelody play off the melody because each instrument is trying to drown each other out for your attention and fail to do so, and the basslines are all but neutered. ORAS Magma/Aqua Grunt Battle theme is the best example of this.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR06tQIFz5whttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJf4WpuWGVY
>>59047085he looked so normal before he had to take over directing games and taking all the blame even when he stopped directing
interesting thread
>>59046371>he's as old as my parentsfuck
this thread pleases mei will bump itbe thankful
>>59047078Interesting list. What are your opinions on the standard wild pokemon battle themes per game?
>>59047499it does have the benefit of more time in the oven
>>59047113The original Rival theme may be shit but the ORAS version is firmly better than the DDPT rival theme, I'm sorry. I fucking HATE Barry and his stupid ass theme song.
>>59047707The ORAS Champion theme is so close to being a good remix. It leads into the fast-paced frantic vibe of the original even harder with that four-on-the-floor kick. It's just missing some layers, which seems to be a common reoccurence with the ORAS remixes.
>>59047078Curious as to why you dislike the Gym Battle theme? If I had to guess it's because there's not really a "climax" or "break" like the other themes so it just sounds like it goes on and on without much change, which is a fair complaint. I rather enjoy the callbacks to the trainer theme as if to say "this is still a friendly challenge, but it's more serious now". The main melody line that repeats twice in the beginning is very joyous and grand and the transition and contrast into the darker phrygian section reflects that. It flows constantly between moments of ecstasy to moments of struggle, perfect for representing the Gym battles. And the reference to the Johto Gym Battle theme right before the loop is a nice touch too.
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>>59043885>>59044342good thread I like this autism
>>59044492Think about the percussion-heavy Cyrus theme section. The effect produced there is one of suspense and drama. Too many drums probably felt overly intense to Junichi.
>>59046371is that supposed to be an example?
>>59050388Nothing terribly objectionable nor original, I think, except it forces people to reconsider kneejerking about SwSh, which they already should have done for the gym battle theme.
>>59050419The Hoenn rival battle theme doesn't know what sentiment it wants to evoke. It doesn't feel like a theme for anyone, much less the rival, nor does it feel compelling as a battle theme within the context of the game. The remix marginally improves its lameness, but it fundamentally is a track with no real identity.I'm not saying the Sinnoh rival theme is a masterpiece, but it at least does communicate what it's about, and although it's primarily lighthearted, it does have some weight thrown into it here and there to make one take it a little bit more seriously.Also, he doesn't deserve the hate. He's literally the strongest (and arguably deepest) rival in the series. He also is an example of acceptable diversity insofar as he's probably the first typically neurodivergent character in the series with his evident ADHD.
>>59050639What I dislike is not the first 13 seconds section, nor the section that begins about 40 seconds post-start, but what occurs between them. It throws away the opening's mood and momentum for something not merely jarring, but anti-hype in feeling. I don't think it's well-composed melodically most of all, although ostensibly it's better suited for a gym leader battle. My problem with the other two sections I do like is that they are inappropriate for the idea of a gym battle, and would be better suited for something with bigger stakes—which idea factors into how I made the picrel rankings.My idea of a gym leader battle theme is one that cannot be overly grave, but must also still feel hype and epic. If it sounds ridiculous for fighting 2 mons no higher than Lv. 12, then it's leaning inappropriate.Also, of course, some of these just sound plain awful. That's not the case for the Hoenn gym battle theme outside of the middle section, which I think ultimately shouldn't have been put-out as-is, anywhere; I don't think it strikes a good balance between playfulness and coolness.
>>59043885I always consider the Pokémon musical style as having the rhythmic energy come from tuned parts rather than percussion. Maybe that's a leftover effect from the Gameboy games, where the polyphony is extremely limited - if you want any sort of chord it basically has to be arpeggiated, and due to this there's not a lot of musical room for a more involved drum part. It's the same in this trainer theme - listen to how energetic the bass part is, basically constant 16ths. Sure you could add extra drums on top of this, but it's not really necessary. The drums in this are sort of a minimalistic approach to use as little as possible to not get in the way while still keeping a strong pulse.The last reason, all sound effects occupy a similar sonic space to cymbals, so this is maybe a way to keep that space clear so it doesn't get cluttered with attacks, super effective sounds etc.
>>59051665>it fundamentally is a track with no real identity.I always took it as a "new frontier" kind of track, what with it being one of the first battle themes you hear in Ruby/Sapphire (after the wild battle theme). It's not a particularly fitting theme for Brendan/May Birch specifically, but it is hyping you up for this new region and game. A "Hoenn" theme, rather than a "rival" theme.>>59047707I don't really have the musical vocabulary to properly talk about this, but the ORAS arranges are just really limp in most cases, perhaps exactly because they muddle up the melody/countermelody lines that were so clear in the original compositions and try to make up for that with new percussion and stuff (which never really breaks onto any interesting ground, at least Ichinose toyed around with and made flourishes and additions to the HGSS battle arranges).>>59047078>>59051632Wow, you really hate Sun/Moon, huh? SM Trainer is one of my favourites across the series... and then they completely ruined the vibe in USUM.
>>59051759>Wow, you really hate Sun/Moon, huh?yes, but besides the pointI think most of its themes are legitimately weakTeam Skulls' excluded, and picrel (Elite Four theme)also love the Totem encounter theme:https://youtu.be/vSCL8RFYns8
>>59051755>Maybe that's a leftover effect from the Gameboy games, where the polyphony is extremely limitedyeswhy would he "fix" what ain't broke>there's not a lot of musical room for a more involved drum partyep>The drums in thisthe simplistic drum beat is literally core to RSE's auditory identity; it's even used in remixes for authenticity:https://youtu.be/UpL33GgQEmEhttps://youtu.be/lRi40DEfZ5wIt sounds absurd when you isolate it out of context and point out how impresent percussion is, but in practice, the melodies do all the heavy lifting and elevate the music to grandiose echelons.
>>59051665The reason the RSE Rival theme is so unusual is because it bears actual structural dissimilarities to the other tracks. It has longer intervals in its key changes, so chords change more dramatically than the minor or major 2nds you typically see in other Masuda battle music. It also uses alternating fourths in parts of its bassline, rather than fifths, which could be considered a chord inversion but nevertheless isn't something Masuda does often in battle themes, and imparts some very strange chord tones to the piece. The opening melody isn't restated twice or iterated upon as most of the other tracks do, rather it continuously flows from verse to verse. I'd say the character of the melody is far more grandiose but there are some extremely offbeat phrases and countermelodic lines which emphasize its general oddness.It's worth noting that May's Japanese name is "Haruka", or "distant"/"far away", and assuming the piece was written with her in mind, Masuda perhaps identifying more closely with Brendan, it may have been intentionally created with a grander sense of scale and a sense of looking off to the horizon. The later games would of course take the peppy character art and just deliver something bouncier, sillier, more fun. The rival themes were great up until after Gen 5 but the first two, GSC and RSE, deliver something a little more musically thoughtful. I do like the RSE rival theme for what it's worth but it is an acquired taste.
>>59047078>>59047113>>59051714>>59051632>>59051783When placing HGSS on these lists, are you accounting for the trainer, wild, and gym leader themes in Kanto?
>>59052005no, they don't count whatsoeverGSC Kanto gym leader theme would be high tier, in case one is wondering
>>59047707Agreed with this. I don't understand why anyone hypes up modern Pokemon music. It usually just sounds like mindless noise to me, and when I listen to the remixes in remakes, I almost don't feel like I'm listening to the original compositions with how lacking they sound despite being on better hardware and having more instrumentation. It feels like Game Freak got too excited with all of the options they have now and just stuff everything into a song rather than committing to a defined melody.
>>59052445Composing strong, assertive melodies which stand on their own is ridiculously difficult and most people cannot manage. The newer music is stylish and energetic, with fun instrumentation choices, but substantively speaking it is very shallow. Most people have no interest or ability in distinguishing these things and as long as music gets them pumped up, or forces an emotional response, they think it's fine, regardless of deeper musical merit or ideas.
>>59047085How did he manage to do it all without internet and such a young age?
>>59052617everyday Capricorn type-shi
>>59052617deal with the devil, same reason he got away with touching kids
>>59053083meds
>>59051759>Wow, you really hate Sun/Moon, huh? SM Trainer is one of my favourites across the series... and then they completely ruined the vibe in USUM.This is how I feel about the BW2's trainer battle remix
>>59047085>great musician >can fill in for programmer during the GB days>can handle composing and project management at the same timeMasuda might be more talented than Tajiri and Sugimori. A real generational talent.
