For a long time I've always thought HGSS was the peak pokemon experience due to all its content but after replaying SS as of now I started to think... is it, though?>You get the Safari Zone>but you have to spend like a year playing daily to level up zones to make it worth while>You get the battle frontier>you get BP at a glacial pace and like 3 facilities are entirely luck based>You get a revised kanto>the shit Johto exp distribution wasn't fixed and as such it doesn't prepare you for the Kanto gym leaders>You get useful TMs on the game corner>You can't buy coins and get a shitty minesweeper wannabe that's also the only way to get coins at an incredibly slow paceShit like this just made me appreciate FireRed (and possibly BW2) more and see it more like the definitive Pokemon experience if we're talking about the core of what Tajiri and Game Freak wanted to do with it. Having a lot of content isn't worth it if it's based on frustration and tedium.Which would be the definitive Pokemon game for you?
>>59071065>Which would be the definitive Pokemon game for you?XY
>>59071068And why?
>>59071065>Which would be the definitive Pokemon game for you?Platinum or B2W2
>>59071065Many of your problems are solved by interacting with other players or being Japanese, but regardless having to actually work for things and not just having them handed to you, or coming back to the game later to do something are reasons I really like HGSS over most other Pokemon games. B2W2 comes close, and having slightly more accessible online dramatically improves Join Avenue, but HGSS is also a nostalgia pick and I liked GS for the exact same type of thing back then.
>>59071088Dealing with Voltorb Flip isn't work, just tedium.Same as having to battle 100 wild battles for a measly level up just to have a chance against Sabrina's lvl 53 Espeon.
>>59071065Johto isn't like the other mainline games, they're sim games, not RPGs. If you play them like you would Animal Crossing you'll enjoy them much more but if you play them as an RPG or other mainline title you'll grow exhausted from all the time-gating nonsense.
>>59071095doo lost to espeon
>>59071065>you have to spend like a year playing>you get BP at a glacial pace>exp distribution>get coins at an incredibly slow paceOh no, how awful! You need to spend more time playing a good game! As if your time is somehow precious. Seriously though what's the rush?
>>59071108Let me guess, you must also think ET for Atari is a good game.
>>59071112Holy hell what a comparison!
>>59071108Let's see how much you enjoy leveling a lvl. 43 pokemon only using wild battles with lvl. 10 pokemon.
>>59071125Why are you training on level 10 pokemon you dumbass
>>59071132So i can spend more time playing a good game?
>>59071132It's all the game has. Lvl 30 pokemon at Victory Road aren't much better. You just don't get enough exp for a smooth progression and instead have to spend a whole day for one level up for one pokemon once Kanto starts.
>>59071071And why?
>>59071139You can call NPCs for rematches once you've cleared the Radio Tower. EXP and money and you get to play to your strengths instead of gambling on wild pokemon.
>>59071125I had no problem because I actually like playing these games and explored both regions thoroughly. I fought every trainer, did rematches and actually knew what the fuck I was doing.
>>59071140They simply offer the most content I find appealing
>>59071065Johto is meant to be slower paced, it's designed to play a little bit at a time, over a long period of time. If you're trying to bumrush through the game it might seem like tedium, but you have to look at it as a game that you played for a few minutes here and there, at recess on the playground, on the bus ride home, sneaking in a little bit before bed. It even rewarded you for playing that way with its time-based content that encouraged hopping in at different times of the day. And it's a game that's meant to last you a whole year playing like that. It's not meant to be blitzed through in a week. I don't think it's a flaw, I just think it's a game that requires a different mindset than the other games in the series to get the most out of. It felt different back then because people got immersed in it, they played it the way it was meant to be played. Now they try to recapture the experience but don't give it the patience that's necessary. As someone else said, it's almost like Animal Crossing in that way.
>>59071159Is there a recommended rematch to farm that isn't the E4?
>>59071095>>59071125Your party should be fine for basically all of Kanto until Red. Lance should have been a bigger challenge than any given gym leader and the EXP you get from trainer battles should put you at a point where there's no real level difference unless you swapped out your entire party like you're playing a modern Pokemon game and are trying not to be overleveled.
>>59071068It simply offers the most content I find appealing
>>59071172>unless you swapped out your entire party like you're playing a modern Pokemon game and are trying not to be overleveledI did exactly that with a 5 pokemon team. Swapped according to weaknesses and such. So the game expects you overlevel two pokemon instead of taking advantage of a varied team?
>the level curve is bad because I'm complete dogshit at the game and I need to grind to beat the braindead npcs with a higher number than mine!!!
>>59071065HGSS is the most overrated game ever MUH SOUL and MUH FOLLOW POKEMONS aren't arguments.
>>59071187Let's see you blaze the league with an underleveled pokemon then if it's so easy. I'm waiting.
Just saying, if the Johto level curve was really anywhere near as bad as zoomer faggots say it is, it wouldn't have taken people 20 years to realize.
>>59071196I'm pretty sure this was a complain even back then.
>>59071194someone post the feraligatr image
>good level curve = the npc's levels match my levels the entire game
>>59071180No, it expects you to stick with a party of about 6 you get over the course of the game. Again, if you're fighting every trainer you should have been at a solid level by the time you beat the Elite 4, so again unless you're swapping to new Pokemon right when you get into Kanto you're going to be fine. And even then if you do that, the wild Pokemon are an appropriate level, then the trainers are fine, followed by gym leaders, but it is a bit tougher.
>>59071200>revisionism
>>59071206No one has ever said that. But an enemy pokemon 10 levels above you, faster than you and one shotting everything isn't the most balanced of challenges.
How come I could beat this game as a dumb 8 year old but grown adults can’t
>>59071212what enemy (besides Red, who is a superboss) is 10 levels above you
>>59071209Oh, you meant that. Then no, I stuck to what I caught the first time and wasn't changing with pokemon I got later. I was STILL pretty underleveled despite fighting wilds and all trainers.
>>59071212How did you manage to get to that point when you had to beat Lance to begin with? Or how did you end up underleveled going into Lance when there's so many fights you could have gotten into that would genuinely make you overleveled after you got surf?
>>59071226>How did you manage to get to that point when you had to beat Lance to begin with?I prayed to RNJesus, Quick Claw and hoped for the best with Hypnosis and Thunder Wave.
>>59071212>I don't know what type matchups are>I don't know what status moves are>I don't know what items are>I don't know what EVs are>"XY is too easy even for Pokemon btw"
>>59071221Maybe I just picked a better team than you since I didn't hardly fight any wild Pokemon and was doing just fine, but even in my more recent Gen 2 playthrough I had to drop Crobat in Johto because it wasn't pulling it's weight, and that was during the low level lollygagging after surf and before Clair so it was pretty blatant. If you're really having trouble the basically free Gyarados is solid, especially with the physical/special split making it even better than it already was, but almost every water type outside of Seaking is really good.
>>59071065HGSS is a time-waster game that was developed in a time where kids had not much else to play and games had to be autistically grinded for meaningful content.
>>59071242What good type matchups are when you're getting outsped and one shotted anyway?Sure I can have Blizzard on a Pokemon Dragonite just swipes it anyway.
>>59071230Okay, still doesn't answer how you even managed to get to Lance so extremely underleveled to where that was your go to strategy. Or maybe the Pokemon choice was just kinda dogshit, some Pokemon's movepools are pretty scuffed even with all the improvements between Gen 2 and Gen 4.>>59071242I mean if a genuine retard goes into the game and finds it too easy that says a lot about how retard proofed it is
>>59071255>a few okay games vs one really fucking good gameWe should continue to design games in this manner.
>>59071255It's a shame we don't get games like that anymore. Well, games that aren't directed by Sakurai, Air Riders is still that and it's great. Imagine releasing a finished video game.
>>59071095have you tried not being shit at video game?
>>59071248>>59071266My team was (checking the hall of fame) Lvl. 42 Typhlosion, 39 Octillery, 43 Nidoking, 41 Gengar, 39 Pidgeot and 45 Lugia because at this point I was pretty much forced to bring a legendary.All of them used at the earliest possible each without really swapping or giving exp to pokemon I wasn't going to use in the end so really, I don't know what to tell you. I fought most wilds, fought almost every trainer I could find, these were my levels.
>>59071256What the hell are you using that's that slow? Maybe you should be using trick room strategy for that, it could genuinely help.
>>59071256>What good is taking 1/2 to 1/4 less damage against moves when I'm trying to survive against moves?>>59071266>I mean if a genuine retard goes into the game and finds it too easy that says a lot about how retard proofed it isIt also says a lot about how utterly fucking retarded you are that you found any of these toddler games challenging enough in the first place to whine about lack of difficulty.
>>59071291How about talking like a normal human being instead of spamming the same meme pic and providing an actual argument. You aren't precisely proving yourself superior.
>>59071276This.Although it's not my favorite game of all time, if I could only play one video game for the rest of my life, it would be Pokemon HeartGold. I can't think of a game where I get more time and enjoyment out of a single playthrough.
>>59071293NTA but>spamming the same meme picwho cares >and providing an actual argumentglad you noticed
>>59071255>autistically grindedNo. If you knew what the fuck you're doing and actually liked exploring the region and by that I mean fighting every trainer because why wouldn't you do that, you'd have no problem beating the entire game. Having to autistically grind is just a result of trying to rush through the game like an idiot. You clearly don't care much about the game if you want to skip large chunks of content.
>>59071217Because dumb 8 year olds will play early gen as intended, hyper leveling a starter, and one or two coverage mons. There's a reason basically everyone runs typhlosion, ampharos, and gyarados in Gen 2. Or just hyper carries with feraligatr.
>>59071300No, I meant you aren't giving any real arguments, you're just making fun instead of talking like a normal person.Are you that much of an idiot being unable to talk normally and actually helping instead of making fun?Show me your first Hall of Fame.
>>59071306Everyone here is saying how Johto actually leaves your team equally leveled to the E4 if you "fight everything" but nobody has provided a single post-Victory Road team showing exactly that.Let's see that 6 pokemon team averaging at lvl 40.
>>59071309>6 pokemon teamI'm literally saying that's not what the early gen games were intended for. They're unironically intended for extremely lopsided teams.
>>59071307>Show me your first Hall of FameWell I don't have my original cartridge anymore, but it was something along the lines of >Meganium>Mantine>Arbok>Ho-Oh>Misdreavus>Electrode
>>59071313Sorry, my mind got crosswired with another posts claiming what I'm asking proof of.
>>59071316How much did Arbok help with the E4? Also Misdreavus pre-E4?
>>59071065why would playing sword and shield change your opinion of HGSS?
>>59071325SoulSilver, genius.
>>59071325It brings to mind the words of Harold McMillan
>>59071316>ElectrodeMY FUCKING NIGGER I KNEW ONE OF YOU EXISTED SOMEWHERE
>>59071303>no bro it's not "autistically grinding" to burn through all the shitty RNG frontier facilities
>>59071065>>but you have to spend like a year playing daily to level up zones to make it worth whilePeople are still lying about this. That's only for the ultra rare pokemon.
Funny how nobody has defended the Safari Zone or Voltorb Flip.I personally just hack the TMs in, there isn't any skill involved in that fucking game. I wouldn't hate it so much if you could just buy the coins.
>>59071284Unfortunately Octillery and Pidgeot seem like weak links there, they don't do much of anything, especially not better than most other Pokemon of their type. Like even in Gen 1 Fearow is just better than Pidgeot in every way that matters, and power creep has only gotten worse since. Octillery at least has good mixed attack but will die to almost anything and doesn't have the speed to back it up. Your team in general seems kinda slow, when Gengar and Typhlosion are the fastest you're not going to have an amazing time. If you really want to keep Lugia maybe a weirdo bug type could be a good pickup over Pidgeot, Scyther is not bad and available at a reasonable level if you're truly committed to grinding. Earlier pickups you could have made are Heracross being pretty great, and I've used Forretress and it's shockingly good for a defensive Pokemon. It's no Gen 5 but HGSS is a solid showing for bug types. As for Octillery it's probably not worth throwing out entirely, but there's so many good water types it really could have been a lot of things. This isn't Nidoking's heyday but having Earthquake at all isn't bad, but the poison half of it's type identity is kinda already covered by Gengar. I would have picked an electric type because I know they're fast, but an actual rock type would have probably been better than my choice or Nidoking. Of course this is all retroactive, you picking Pidgeot so early but it being so low level should have been a warning sign to pivot out of it, like my experience with Crobat. Maybe with this advice you can have a bit more game sense on what is and isn't worth using, and when something just isn't working to begin with.
>>59071108OP very clearly isn't enjoying these parts of the game, why does the fact that they're in a game you've decided is good mean that this is still a good thing? You do know that you can think a game is good without uncritically lauding every single aspect in it regardless of quality, right?
>>59071125A level 43 pokemon is a good level to be to fight Johto's final boss whose strongest pokemon is level 50.
>>59071108HGSS is only good in a romhack. The main campaign is dogshit all the way up to Red.
>>59071322Arbok was kinda shit, no two ways about it. I just used it cause it looked coolDon't sleep on Misdreavus though. It gets some seriously good moves at later levels. Even as a kid I took note of how powerful Perish Song was, and Shadow Ball is just a strong move and everyone knows it. I liked using it enough to level it up to 100 as a Mismagius in postgame.>>59071339For some reason, the ball of blinding speed spoke to me as a kid. I still kinda really like it.>>59071347The Safari Zone already has a shitton of Pokemon out the gate, I've always seen the "long game" ones as just a nice bonus for those willing to put in the time.Voltorb Flip on the other hand does suck, although I can't really blame the game itself for that. It was a product of gay-ass censorship laws. What I CAN blame the game for is not being able to buy coins in the US release.Plus side, it is a pretty decent motivator to study Japanese.
>>59071347I don't know why they even had this when Pokeathlon existed. All the TMs and what not should have been rewarded from there.
>>59071343Frontier is just extra content just like Battle Tower was in Crystal.
>>59071347voltorb flip is a pleb filter, as you have so succinctly demonstrated
>>59071356Yeah I'm starting to realize that now. I picked Octillery because I thought it's coverage with the different beams (psychic, ice, bug and water attacks) would be great.A Heracross or an electric type would have been great... or just dedicating everything to one pokemon and one cheerleader like >>59071306 says.In the end I know if I'm underleveled it's my fault for distributing exp among 5 pokemon, two of them being bad.
>>59071347I did earlier. Safari Zone can be exchanged with other players, and Voltorb Flip and the lack of being able to buy coins is solved by being Japanese. Just because you don't like the solutions doesn't mean there isn't a solution.
>>59071367No, I meant how did you get a Misdreavus before the E4. Via trading?
>>59071356>ForretressHe's honestly based. Defensive Pokemon can feel kinda bad for initial playthroughs though
>>59071381Cliff Cave and Safari Zone have it in HGSS
>>59071364Recommend me a romhack. I've been meaning to replay it
>>59071367Also in case you're the same microwave anon, thanks for actually speaking nicely now.
>>59071386HeartGold and SoulSilver. It's a romhack of DPPt>>59071387I'm not
>>59071390
>>59071384Man today I learned they fixed Misdreavus' location in the remakes.
>>59071359Lance is fucking shit tier when half his team has the same quad weakness
>>59071386the drayano one, just gives trainers more challenging teams and that's about it.
>>59071383I've always found Forretress to be really interesting but never used one because I've always made sure I can trade and then Scizor is an option. Maybe one day I'll use that other bug/steel guy
>>59071398No doubt about it. The problem is actually landing that quad weakness.Well that's on me tho for having an Octillery and Nidoking as my ice beam users. Should've just picked Totodile.
>>59071395Yeah, Murkrow and Larvitar too.Also Slugma if you know where to look, although to be fair no one is finding that one by chance
>>59071373It isn't even that you wasted EXP, because Octillery and Pidgeot clearly have a lot less of it, it's that you didn't use them so they fell behind and got even worse than they already are. It's a cycle of you not wanting to use them because they kinda suck, them not getting EXP because you don't use them, and them sucking even more because they're low level, which makes you not use them, which makes them get even less EXP. Ironically your problem isn't that you're using 6 Pokemon, it's that you're actually using three like that guy recommended.
>>59071405>Ironically your problem isn't that you're using 6 Pokemon, it's that you're actually using three like that guy recommended.When those three could've gotten even more experience and at least one of them being a better choice.Well nowthat I'm in Kanto I'm planning to stick to Typhlosion, Nidoking and Gengar but I'm thinking about replacing Gengar with a better water user. Unless I'm better off sticking to Octillery by this point (which now is lvl 44 thanks to exp. share)
>>59071065>this pokemon/event is only available at certain times of day, sometimes only in a two hour window!>what's that, you're irl employed? haha tough luck palquit points, quit points everywhereand of course I haven't mentioned the shitty level curve they didn't fix and still-horrible pokemon distribution
ITT: another case study for why forced shared exp is objectively good
>>59071421just set the clock if it's that big of an issue dude.
>>59071421>this pokemon/event is only available at certain times of day, sometimes only in a two hour window!>what's that, the DS clock and calendar can be changed at will? great!
Level Curve naysayers rarely know what they're talking about. The criticism is so shallow you have to question if they've ever played any Pokemon game. The most confusing part is how these people go on to celebrate "bad" level curves in other Pokemon games as well. Cynthia is lauded for her level 66 Garchomp raping everyone's party of level 50 pokemon, but the Johto games are attacked for situations that aren't even close to being as extreme. Sometime between Gens 5 and 6 this mindset was born that your Pokemon must always have equal levels to the NPC. Does that even sound like something Gamefreak cares enough to balance around? Clearly not because Gamefreak eventually created the nu-Exp Share, oh but wait, these people schizophrenically hate that too.
>>59071432trvthnvke
>>59071383It really depends. Chikorita is bad because it's the only remotely good Pokemon you can get early on, and it being a support with nothing to support feels bad. On the other hand Forretress, when it actually evolves, is late enough that you'd probably have a core of good Pokemon (that aren't Meganium) and can support them in ways that they can't support themselves.>>59071404Shame about Houndour being the fucking worst still, no idea what the hell that's about.>>59071416Gengar is genuinely just one of the best Pokemon in the game and the effort you went through to get it probably warrants you keeping it. You can probably get Octillery to work if you slap Choice Specs/Scarf on it, it's not like you'll be using more than one move on anything that isn't Blue/Red given how homogeneous trainer teams can be.
>>59071432I think it's also exacerbated by the mindset of having a full team of 6 equally leveled mons who, to your point, are equal to the NPCs levels.
>>59071403Can you get staryu before the e4 in johto? SPIT starmie ohkos pretty much his whole party
>>59071428>>59071431>Yeah let's go ahead and literally stop playing the game so I can go fuck with the date and time to get what I want>Hm you know what, since I already exited the game, maybe I'm feeling like another platinum playthrough instead, or I should go just go do something elseSad!
>>59071454Fuck, at some point I considered having a Starmie as my main water and psychic user before switching to Octillery because the dumb octopus looked funny.I even grinded the Pokeathlon for a water stone.
>>59071432>>59071450Johto's level curve is bad in the exact way where this is mostly fine, as while the enemy levels in the open part of the game are pretty standard, you keep gaining EXP. So you're overleveled for lots of unfun boring content, but by the time the game gets reasonable again you're about up to the level the game expects you to be with little issue.
>>59071460Nah it's cool, what other chances do you have to use octillery? And besides, starmie is kinda broken I tend to avoid it in Kanto/Johto because it dominates everything after geting boltbeam + Surf, access to psychic just makes it god tier in the poison infested land of kanto
>>59071065>stones behind shitty minigames>move tutor is postgame and requires bp farming for fucking hours to use lmao>johto dex is still dogshit>didn't fix any of the gym or elite 4 teams>didn't fix the dogshit level curve, still fighting grunts with level 15 pidgeys at the 7th gym>kanto still full of under level dogshit>all TMs worth using are in KANTOOOOO unless you farm more shitty minigames for hoursops right, hgss are fucking boring with the most ass cheek, boring, slow team building experience lmfao
>>59071448>still falling for the chikorita memeSomething tells me you've never actually used it. It kicks a surprising amount of ass in practice, even against fights where it should have a disadvantage.
>>59071464The narrative comes from nuzlockers who have to train new wild encounters in the mid game.
>>59071065Platinum mogs it too
>>59071474samefagging won't make your point stronger
>>59071474I'll take stones behind the Pokeathlon over useful TMs behind Voltorb Flip ANY DAY.And as the other anon said, movin the Game Corner TMs to the Pokeathlon would've been a good move.
>>59071479Platinum has the most samey team building in the series.
>>59071480that's my first post itt faggot
All this conversation just makes me think that possibly BW2 are the most well rounded games in terms of challenge, team building variety and diverse content without any of the tedium that plagues the other games.Too bad it costs a fortune nowadays. I'm a fucking autist who thinks pokemon in pirated games aren't as valuable as in a legit game but I can get over it.
>>59071483No, that's DP, Platinum gives you a crumb of choice even though you're still probably going to be using Starraptor regardless
>>59071496>All this conversation just makes me think that possibly BW2 are the most well rounded games in terms of challenge,
>>59071499That's not BW2 anon.
>>59071485Yeah, and I'm Satoshi Tajiri
>>59071499this is why johto doesn't let you lvl past 10 btw and exp share is bad
>>59071496It's still pretty tedious in a lot of ways, maybe not as bad as HGSS but also possibly worse (especially if you start bringing the Medals and Funfest missions into it), but that's just what happens when games have some amount of friction to them. I'd probably pick HGSS most days, but B2W2 is also pretty up there. Emerald also qualifies for a lot of it, can't forget that. USUM unfortunately has a few too many genuine time wasting elements for me to really say it qualifies but it's one QoL hack away from being a contender.
>playing the game as intended is... le tedious!>why yes, i use speedup and infinite rare candies every time i play a pokemon game, how could you tell
>>59071499Scrafty and Moxie are goated, actual good mon unlike the shitmons in Johto
>>59071505yeah i wouldn't doubt it, the only way to pretend johto isn't ass is nostalgia or you have money in it kek
>>59071539>the only way to know johto is kino is if you've actually played ittrue
>>59071522At least the medals and missions are pretty easy to ignore and add nothing of value or importance towards the main gameplay.At least the useful teambuilding TMs aren't locked behind a gimped Game Corner.
>>59071499>SwannaIs there a more forgettable pokemon?
>>59071522Imo emerald with a few qol hacks is the best
>>59071545Fuck I said "at least" twice, I hate repeating my semantics.
>>59071496>BW2 are the most well rounded games in terms of challenge, team building variety and diverse content without any of the tedium that plagues the other gamesORAS is better at all these things
You can grind lucky eggs in Platinum and trade one to HGSS, Trade a Houndour over while you're at it.
>>59071553ORAS is piss easy, it plays itself. And the lack of the Battle Frontier (and the dumb lazy reasoning behind it) just doesn't make this a good replayable game for me.
>>59071551Probably, although I don't know if I'd consider "removing the Battle Palace and replacing it with something actually good" a QoL hack. I would consider it based though.
>>59071548Yes but I forgot who
>>59071556>Trade a Houndour over while you're at it.This, Houndour was always designed to be a "new game +" Pokemon you get from a friend, like Beldum
>>59071553dexnav is kino
>>59071548Lumineon (although it being the go to for most forgettable Pokemon might put it out of the ranking) and Seel are up there. There's probably another water type too, there's so many of them you're bound to just ignore them unless they're really bad or funny like Seaking (on both counts).
>>59071558>ORAS is piss easy, it plays itselfOh…so exactly like BW2 then>And the lack of the Battle FrontierOh…so exactly like BW2 then
>>59071572Got his ass.
>>59071572Are we really ignoring the World Tournament?
>>59071566Truke
>>59071553ORAS is not well rounded at all. It's one of those Pokemon games that excels at one or two things but is lacking in other areas. You know, standard fare for most Pokemon games. That does put it over "why am I playing this" games like DP, XY, and SS.
>>59071558Can't wait for oras hacks to get good
>>59071575>Are we really ignoring (slop with blatantly reused sprites and shitty remixes)Yes.
>>59071583>>59071572Ok, I'm biting.Lack of difficulty and Frontier aside, what makes ORAS so genuinely good?
>>59071589Not much, but its still better than B2W2.
>>59071065the safari zone being how it is is honestly quite fun in my opinion i dont get the hgss safari zone hate, maybe its just because i dont actually care about the mons locked behind long periods of time so i was more just looking forward to checking back for the dopamine hit but i liked itthe battle frontier and voltorb flip are complete ass in hgss though its not a contest lol, voltorb flip is cute at first but it becomes grating as fuck fast
>>59071589You won't get a good answer out of Kojo. The real strength of ORAS is using Gen 6/the 3DS's multiplayer systems to bring Gen 3's multiplayer concepts to the next level. It's a shame half of them don't work with the online being dead and Pretendo struggling to get it to work, but having StreetPass fixes a ton of the problems and makes it usable. Aside from that it's just bad RS which still puts it above a lot of other Pokemon games.
>>59071597>the battle frontiernah the frontier is great>voltorb flipyeah this kinda sucks
>>59071597>i don't see what's wrong with waiting 3 months to catch a fucking bagon and you can't circumvent it through normal date skipping on the DSlol, that's completely unreasonable. any normal person would just transfer one fromrs or dp
>>59071589You're replying to yawntard (kojo), he won't engage in a good faith discussion because she's mad her fangame inspired by gen V isn't more popular than BW and B2W2.
>>59071602Gen 6 ruined Pokemon as a concept. The whole point of Pokemon was getting together with someone and trading pokemon and getting to know them. You would- quite literally- be linked to them. Battling online against randoms is awful and soulless. Surprise trade is soulless. Getting randoms secret bases was also soulless compared to gen 3.Pokemon died with gen 6 and ORAS is proof.
>>59071608>and you can't circumvent it through normal date skipping on the DSyes you can, go look on youtube how to unlock bagon in under am hour.If you want it so bad go and get it with the pokewalker.
>>59071608>i don't see anything wrong with a nice cool bonus for those willing to put in the time on top of the additional countless pokemon you can already get out the gateidk man i think it's pretty coolbut yeah you do have the option to just transfer it if that's not your cup of tea
>>59071602>>59071596I've always struggled to find a pokemon game to invest time into and I kind of narrowed it down to HGSS, AlphaSapphire and Moon.They all have their pros and cons but I'm looking for things to do, lasting appeal, QoL, maybe shiny hunting features and competitive training (and things to use it).It's hard because for instance Moon has the best competitive training options with the Pelago but nothing to use it outside wifi and other players while HGSS has the Frontier but cumbersome ways to train.AlphaSapphire has the goat DexNav, Secret Bases and fun soaring but worse everything else.
>>59071624post it then. the only way to get around the hgss safari zone date check is with a dsi
>>59071606to me its just a worse version of the emerald frontier thats way slower to get into, considering i could just play the emerald frontier, i feel neutral to it and dont really care for it, i went through it all eventually though because i wanted to 100% hgss and that make me have a more overall negative feeling to it just off that rather than if i played it casually>>59071608yeah i get that the timegating is dumb but as i said i dont give a shit about bagon so personally it was fine for me, really pokopia is like the evolved version of the hgss safari zone but fixing the biggest problem with it in a way, im surprised i havent seen more people make that connection
>>59071622I disagree, but I do agree that they should have emphasized player interaction more directly. StreetPass was a great system, but the direct predecessor in DQ9's tag mode was a supplementary system to actually playing with other people directly locally. Unfortunately we're not all Japanese, so shit like that or what Gen 5 tried didn't really work out over here. Project Seed on the other hand has some potential to fix that sort of thing.
>>59071638*that might make me
>>59071630If you're only going for those exact three things exactly you could do way worse than ORAS, it's a real shame there's nothing to actually do with any of the reasonable team making QoL. But it's also a shame that HGSS didn't do much for QoL and also made using boxes simply worse. I get it, Morimoto was probably afraid of changing anything too much after he fucked up those berries in Emerald, but you could have done something.
>>59071638that's fair i suppose. i really like the battle frontier, especially the prep of training up a team for it. it's fun stuff
>>59071577>It's one of those Pokemon games that excels at one or two things but is lacking in other areasOh…so like BW2 then…except BW2 doesn’t even have the “excels at one or two things” part
>>59071664Having a Battle Frontier with the QoL that is the Poke Pelago would be the perfect pokemon game.>Here's a training center that makes making competitive pokemon a lot easier and clearer>There's also nothing to do with those pokemon aside from Wi-Fi which is now dead
>>59071575Are we really ignoring the Maison?
>>59071677We're not but I wish we could
>>59071677The Maison kinda sucks tho and isn't a good replacement.
>>59071575The PWT kinda sucks tho and isn't a good replacement.
Imo endgames for Pokemon that aren't multiplayer are kinda retarded and defeat the purpose
>>59071677>>59071685thanks for admitting defeat
>>59071065>>You can't buy coins and get a shitty minesweeper wannabe that's also the only way to get coins at an incredibly slow pacethis is my biggest complaint with HGSS. If they'd just left the option to buy coins I wouldn't mind Voltorb Flip, because I've played the Japanese version of HG's slots and they kinda sucked compared to FRLG's and DPPt's slots that are actually fun. Not letting the player buy coins is the shittiest god damn thing and it means you either HAVE TO play the stupid fucking game in order to get some of the TMs, or if you've got PBR you can get the TMs there and distribute them to your DS games as a mystery gift.Just an insane anti-QoL feature. Even though I like FRLG and DPPt's slots enough to actually play them initially, I still tend to just buy TMs by buying coins once I'm in the postgame, which is when you want to do it the most, just because doing E4 runs is the quickest way to grind.
>>59071694Multiplayer dies when everyone else moves onto the next game.Whereas single-player content can be played for as long as you want to.Not that hard to realise which one is superior.
>>59071705no yeah even as an hgss supremacy truther i think this was a REALLY fucked localization change
>>59071589Ok, I'm biting.Lack of difficulty and Frontier aside, what makes BW2 so genuinely good?
>>59071631then play on a dsi duh
>>59071673Having battle facilities with modern EV/IV QoL is the single fucking thing I want. Online play is a stupid fucking replacement for them.
>>59071718thanks for admitting defeat again
>>59071065>the shit Johto exp distribution wasn't fixed and as such it doesn't prepare you for the Kanto gym leadersWhat do you mean? Lance's team from the Dragonites and being 6 is stronger than all but Blue, like the real issue is your overprepared for them and then they don't prepare you for Blue or more notably Red.
>>59071088Yeah sure man let me just boot up the Nintendo DS Wifi in 2026
>>59071631chuggaaconroy just btfo'd this lol
>>59072140Just do the dns trick, all the pokemon games are compatible with that and pretendo
>>59071095>losing to sabrina
>>59071065>the definitive Pokemon experience if we're talking about the core of what Tajiri and Game Freak wanted to do with itthats gsc paired with stadium 2. or rby paired with stadium 1, that works too
>>59071065the level curve, grinding, and reliance on HMs and singular TMs gets oldI love HGSS but after playing violet/scarlet and being able to see wild pokemon and avoid them if I want, it's hard to go back to older pokemon gamesKeep in mind I play SV on emulator so I have access to 4k resolution, aliasing, 60 fps mods so the game isn't jank like on switch 1 or even 2 with its ghosting
>>59071065Definitely RSE. I played since Blue. RSE was the peak Pokémon experience and introduced so much cool shit and side content and things to stumble across exploring.The manuals had a translator for the braille. I remember actually translating all the Regi codes and it almost felt like something you weren't meant to do in the game. Even though you obviously were. It was designed in such a way that it felt almost like you'd stepped outside the boundaries of the game, like finding Mirage Island. Or bouncing in one single spot with the bike to get Chimecho. Or fishing tonnes of water tiles then eventually Feebas actually pops up and you almost have a heart attack.The art style is beautiful (hence FRLG rock too, same style) and the Mons are great. Seviper was a cooler snake than Arbok and had the rivalry thing with Zangoose. The towns are actually beautiful and interesting, the one in the woods with the houses on treetops, Pacifilog, etc. I remember spending time building my base which you could furnish.The Pokémon contests were really fun and served a purpose for evolving Feebas IIRC because of the prizes? Or it was the other way round and Milotic made you dominate the contests? I know there was something to do with stuff you can feed your Pokémon and if you gave Feebas enough it would evolve.It's the only game I realistically finished the Dex for. I missed one legendary bird and I remember something happened with the kid I was trading with so annoyingly I was one short, but I was about to get it.
>>59072344Scarlet and Violet are too easy. They're engineered for iPad TikTok kids, there's no effort at all for the reward, so you don't get the actual dopamine hit of working for something and achieving the result. You're basically just handed everything on a platter.
>>59072358the titan pokemon I found to be a fun challenge. the games are definitely harder than sun and moon and x and y and oras. But pokemon hasn't been difficult since gen 4
>>59071065>>You get the Safari Zone>>but you have to spend like a year playing daily to level up zones to make it worth while>>You get the battle frontier>>you get BP at a glacial pace and like 3 facilities are entirely luck based>>You get a revised kanto>>the shit Johto exp distribution wasn't fixed and as such it doesn't prepare you for the Kanto gym leaders>>You get useful TMs on the game corner>>You can't buy coins and get a shitty minesweeper wannabe that's also the only way to get coins at an incredibly slow paceits funny how these senteces are phrased like Monkey's paw wishes
>>59072358>Scarlet and Violet are too easy.and yet half the fanbase screeches about them needing level scaling because they're too scared of waltzing into a high level area. Which is it?
>>59071108>Oh no, how awful! You need to spend more time playing a good game! As if your time is somehow precious. Seriously though what's the rush?alright, sure anon, just gimme a vs. seeker and timed events that dont feel repetitive as fuck and then we can spend more time playing a good game and not fucking around and doing jack for hours- oh wait
>>59072380Gen2 is basically this itself. Loaded with features that are useless
>>59071571At least lumi got buffed in most romhack according to Dr 1 ball HG anyway:3 I still haven't attempted a dray run I heard they're brutal makes Cynthia look like a cupcake a delicious cupcake but a cupcake
>>59072382me when i lie
>>59072382No dumbass they say it should have level scaling because if you go to a higher area lv you trivialise the game. It happened to me I went to the snow area, defeated the ice tranny and then the whole game I eas severely overleveled.
>>59071164>one fucking year to finish a pokemon gameso stardew valley but you have to do 0.1 progress everytime you play the game and having to waste time instead of palying the fucking game? wow, what a great game amirite, i sure do love booting up doom, fucking around and checking every wall again before killing an enemy, saving the game, and turning the game off for the day
>>59071499nice rng manip
>>59072407>I-I can't beat the high leveled content but the game is trivialized if I go into the high leveled content!sure buddy
I have no real say passed gen V since it's the last I bought - basically a game desert here desu but I still enjoy the series. D:
>>59072419It's literally the exact opposite. You can beat the high level gyms earlier than you should because the game is laughably easy. So the suggestion is to make the gyms scale their level UP. Lol.
>>59072418Cope
>>59072419Yes, it's badly designed due to the three different storylines. You're bound to be overleveled for most of the story unless you go one or two gyms, a titan and team star raid, all of them in order. Doesn't help that you get EXP from catching mons so you catch a couple of high lv mons and your lv 5 starter becomes a lv 20 mon
>>59072430>passed
>>59072464whitest gen 5 fan
>>59071065>but after replaying SS>translation: but after watching a youtube video
>>59071065This thread REALLY resonates with me, because I have been literally forcing myself to love HGSS, and I just can't. I mean, HGSS is still in my top 5 favorite Pokémon games, but it's most likely 5th, for the reasons you mention. Yes it has a lot of content, but it's not well-thought content. It's tedious content. I would also add the fact that you can rematch Gym Leaders in HGSS, but unlocking them is so annoying and tedious that it's just not worth it. Just like you, I'm currently playing FRLG (Leaf Green in my case), and it's just so much more fun to play.>Which would be the definitive Pokemon game for you?FRLG and ORAS are tied as my favorite Pokemon games.
>>59072513>unlocking them is so annoying and tedioustalking to npcs when you see them isn't tedious lol, i did it as a literal child just through exploration and curiosity
>>59071192Fact
>>59072513Your 5th favourite pokemon game is a game that you have to FORCE yourself to love?What did you have to do to finish games that don't make it into the top 5? Tie yourself to a chair?
>>59072530hgss detractors dont play the games lol
>>59072530>Your 5th favourite pokemon game is a game that you have to FORCE yourself to love?Well it's just that I REALLY love Johto. Johto is the only reason why HGSS is my 5th favorite Pokemon game. It's objectively the best game with Johto in it. But I dislike pretty much everything else about it, especially its overrated Battle Frontier copy pasted from Platinum that people shill like crazy.Basically, I have a love-hate relationship with HGSS.And, for the record, here is my top 6:1. FRLG and ORAS3. USUM4. Platinum5. HGSS6. Legends Arceus
>>59072532>hgss detractors dont play the games lolI do play HGSS, and I always get incredibly bored by the time I reach Kanto, which is so empty in GSC/HGSS that I just can't force myself to continue playing.
>>59072546>ughhh HGSS is so tedious >but mashing A through 30 minute cutscenes in USUM is all fine and goodmake it make sense
>>59072521>talking to npcs when you see them isn't tedious lol, i did it as a literal child just through exploration and curiosityTalking to NPCs at different hours throughout the day, is indeed tedious for me, because I usually only play HGSS at night.
>>59071065>>59071065>You get the Safari Zone>but you have to spend like a year playing daily to level up zones to make it worth whileI just spent a couple days leaving my DS on while I worked and I was just able to get early Larvitar, Houndour, Misdreavus, Murkrow, etc.It's annoying but it's not like a year long grind. It's completely passive.
>>59072558>because I only play HGSS at night.Then play it during the day, retard.
>>59072554>make it make senseI have only played USUM once, and the first time you play SM/USUM, the excessive dialogue doesn't feel tedious. I suspect that if/when I replay USUM, it might seem more tedious and less fun than the first time.
>>59072563>Then play it during the day, retard.A game that forces you to play it at a certain time, is objectively flawed.
Pokeathalon is dogshit and I don't know a single person back then that got even one medal. The juice system is way too complex and obtuse to be worth bothering with.>drink juice>it raises a stat but also lowers one because it's not "mild" enough>just walk 50000 steps so your juice doesn't lower a different stat>also the stat boost only applies for the last juice you drank and a new one doesn't add to it but overwrites it>your Pokémon also just have off days of the month where its stats are shit depending on nature just because>juice stat boosts reset when you put it in the box or when it becomes the next day>juice is made from apricorns which are slow as fuck to collect daily and are better spent on special Poke balls
Just play polished crystal
>>59072570You aren't forced. You'll just miss out on some content.
>>59072571Wtf, this is so tedious and annoying. HGSS is so good on paper, and so shit in practice.
>>59072571>>59072576Would it kill you autists to just play the fucking game? None of that has ever been an issue for me. I go in, do stamina course, get points, and buy what prize I need. Your box should have plenty of pokemon with good pokeathlon stats.
>>59071065>there are people now that unironically think FRLG are actually good and not just a haphazard way of filling your gen 3 dex because GF couldn't be assed making another time machine>there are people now that unironically think FRLG are the best remakes instead of the worst, yes, even BDSP had more thought and care put into itMy god, what the fuck is wrong with this generation?!
>>59072599i played the game and it was an issue for me
>>59071065FRLG has everything you need and nothing you don't. It was intentionally designed to be the essential starting point for a new generation of fans.
>>59072653Sorry, I meant emerald
>>59072622What? Are you serious? I had Fire Red on my GBA when it came out. It was great then too. There is almost no downside except those related to how people play the games now there's online play... I.e. it's more important now to be able to reacquire TMs and see IVs because you're trying to build your team for battling other humans.Otherwise the only actual problem with the game is having to teach shitty HMs to team members.
>>59072653FRLG have EVs which makes them shit
>>59072567>and the first time you play SM/USUM, the excessive dialogue doesn't feel tediousI played Sun for the first time in 2023, because I needed a few mon exclusive to it and SwSh to finish up my living dex and I hated playing SwSh (minus the DLC, I like them)It was the worst decision I'd made regarding pokemon. Sun was a horrible game and the rotom dex made me want to kill myself. A couple hours in, I just turned my 3DS's volume off and kept a youtube video on my monitor that I'd hit play on whenever Rotom started to talk and half the time anyone else spoke.While I hear that the postgame for USUM is better, and the rainbow rocket episode is supposedly very good, I can't bring myself to suffer through the main story of it to find out.
>>59072690It’s not that good. I suffered through UM for it and it was not worth my time.
>>59072690Sun made me quit pokemon wholesale for like 5-6 years, unironically.
>Doesn't prepare you for the Kanto Gym LeadersWhat the fuck? There are 8 of them, and in Gen II only one has any Pokémon above Lance's level, and you don't even have to do a gauntlet like with the Elite Four. In HGSS, they still range between mid-40s to 60 at the strongest, which once again isn't that hard to overcome. Just because you don't have the level advantage, it doesn't mean you don't have access to every other overwhelming advantage. Any other RPG would have boss battles far harder than any of the Kanto Gym Leaders, usually being closer to Red in difficulty on average. Using items, simultaneously managing four distinct party members (ie. completely different functions beyond STRONG FIRE TYPE MOVE and STRONG ICE TYPE MOVE), and resource management like MP or sacrificing HP (considering running out of PP is uncommon).You're bowling a three pin game with the sides up man
>>59072690the rocket crap is just extra battles, the story is the only reason to play Sun/Moon which is why the original version is better than ultra. whoever said otherwise is trolling you.
>>59072747Plus the kanto trainers are still leveled, so you're getting exp from them. It does suck that wild pokemon are so fucking bad, since it means swapping your team post johto is really not advised. IMO that's the actual shit part of the whole thing. You feel sorta locked into your hall of fame team for the 8 kanto gyms
>>59071065>like a year playing daily to level upYou don't have to play at all. Just leave the areas as they are.>BP at a glacial paceThis was back when getting pokemon with certain moves took effort. If you're playing pokemon as an adult, complaining about time investment is pretty stupid because you are already a man child.>the shit Johto exp distribution wasn't fixedActually playing the game is pretty easy and exp is not a problem. It's better when you are under leveled anyways. This criticism is valid when it comes to a lack of higher level wild pokemon. It would be nice to be able to encounter level 60+ pokemon somewhere in the world.Platinum/HGSS is still peak pokemon experience imo. Gen 5 is pretty good too but everything after that is downhill fast.
>>59072747Not him but. They buffed Kanto leaders and everything else is the same. Cerulean Cave has lower level mons for fucks sake. So Pidgeys stay at level 2 and whatnot but Cerulean Cave doesn't get to keep level 60s? It's indefensible. Weedles and Nidorans and no one to rematch but the Elite Four. The gym leaders themselves would be fine in a vacuum but throwing teams higher level than Lance in HGSS without actually fixing the level curve somehow makes it even worse than the original
>>59072646then you're retarded
>>59071065I'd say FireRed is the gold standard for a tight, cull-the-chaff pokemon experience lacking the extra bits and bobs that later entries have, making it its greatest strength and weakness. After playing it I wish Gamefreak took the right lessons from Kanto pandering and used FireRed's structure as a guideline to build upon the newer games. In HGSS there's more secrets to look for and more stuff to do in the downtime, but I think its greatest weaknesses stem from following the originals too faithfully. The removal of badge boosts in generation 4 for example means that certain bossfights are harder than in the original games. And since HGSS are based solely on GS on the NES, changes that Crystal made like the Odd Egg don't exist and I think that's a shame. There probably isn't a definitive pokemon game since all of them have some sort of asterisk on them that turns great games into games with great moments. But I think those two have gotten the closest to "definitive".
>>59072386Either useless or that they made sure to go out of their way to make as tedious as possible for no reason at all.Mind you, this isn't exclusive to HGSS. Don't forget the Difficulty Keys for BW2.
>>59072521You know as well as I do how cumbersome it is to get to rematch every Gym Leader.They could've made it as easily as just going to their gyms to talk to them again but no, they just HAD to make it convoluted and almost impossible without a guide.
>>59072622The way you're putting this is just making it seem like this is a problem just for you and your Complete Dex autism.FRLG have a shitton more content than its original counterparts and are made with more love than BDSP. FRLG are perfectly solid Pokemon experiences.
>>59072690Rainbow Rocket and Necrozma aren't worth the slog that is going through the main game.>"Play this butchered version of a good story just for one good battle"
>>59073949BDSP is one of the worst games ever made for a major game franchise.
>>59072776I really want to incline myself towards Platinum but I just can't with Sinnoh. What a fucking bland and nothingburger region.Which is a shame because this game has the PokeRadar which I spent a lot of time using back when I had Diamond chaining shinies and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Game Corner there worked as always and you had access to decent TMs for team building?Well there's always BW2 for me anyway (with the Action Replay cheat for Challenge Mode)
>>59073443>And since HGSS are based solely on GS on the NES>NESI know this was a honest human mistake but it's still funny
>>59073968fuck it was the gameboy color I'm a fake fucking zoomer
>>59073991Laugh at this man
>>59071071they're not boring shitmonfests like hg ss for one lmfao
>>59073991
>>59073997What gen is the least shitmonfesty?
>>590740291, 4 and arguably to some extent 5.
>>59074033I think BW is entirely shitmon but you're just limited to it until later
>>59074061Granted I think my memory is a bit fuzzy, I was planning to play BW2 again to see how it was ilke.
>>59074066I thought bw2 wasn't only locked to the regional dex but idr either
>>59071164>it's designed to play a little bit at a time, over a long period of time.except its not and its made to actually grind elite four if you want to use any new pokemon in kanto
>>59071065I found Voltorb Flip to be more fun than the actual game. I wished it was less chance based, so I moved on to online nonograms.
>>59071125People tend to forget that u can call an npc to do a rematch with his 2 gyarados one fight after another which helps greatly, dumb fucking retards that just rush through the game. Just make sure you turn off battle animations while grinding, it will take about 30 minutos to level up your team too face Lance
>>59073931>almost impossible without a guide.just explore bro
>>59072354Sovl post
>>590740334 is very shitmon what the fuck do you mean? Basically everyone makes teams from the same 10 fucking pokemon
>>59074061if anything gen 5 pokemon are too strongstoutland, lilligant, excadrill, darmanitan, scrafty, even panpour gets scald really early. there's a ton of great options but you won't get the good stuff right away.>>590756124 is the opposite. all the best stuff is available right away but the stuff you go out of your way to find is worse. but being worse than the best doesn't make you bad. make an effort to use any unexpected encounters you get. I happened upon a female combee in one playthrough, immediately added it to me team, and it was great.
