ITT: Learnset goreGolduck btw
Why does it learn confusion rather than make it rain?It's GOLDuck not PSYduck
>stone evolution that can't relearn moves
>>590836022026 version be like: learns some random moves every 3 levels, learns Psychic and Hydro Pump by 30, special move named something like CumSurge that is 5 moves in one
>>59083602>Mono Water type>First Water type move it learns via level up is Hydro Pump at level 58.>Learns Fury swipes of all moves at 44.It's weird how despite psyduck being Masuda's favorite pokemon it's learnset looked like ass for the first 3 full generations. Why doesn't he even learn water gun!? You have to give it a TM to teach it WATER GUN.
>>59083717I keep forgetting it’s not water/psychic.
The only bug-type with a worse gen 2 learnset than the Johto bugs is arguably Pinsir, but at least it gets Harden and Seismic Toss before lvl. 20. Ledian and Ariados are even worse, but they can at least fill a support role, if that even matters.
sceptile (grass special attacker)
seismitoad (water physical attacker)
>>59083741let's not pretend like 85 attack isn't more than usable in single player
>>59083602JUST
>>59083734Foretress/Pineco is worse. And shuckle is too bad to even show on screen
>>59083766>Foretress/Pineco is worse.>Selfdestruct at lvl. 8>Medium fast XP curve vs. Geodude's medium slowIt's useless on its own, like all good support mons, but it's great as a bomb. Also, Shuckle doesn't need anything more than Toxic to be usable. Trying to use Shuckle for anything outside taking hits is like trying to use Wobbuffet as your main attacker.
>>59083723>PSYduck.>Nearly every dex entry mentions its powerful hidden psychic powers>Learns psychic moves by level up.Mono Water>Slowpoke>Dex entries mostly talk about how slow witted and dumb it is.>No lore reasons for why it should have psychic powersWater/Psychic
Sandslash /thread
>Fire/Fighting Starter>Learns Arm thrust as a Pignite>Doesn't learn a single other fighting type move via level up without a heart scale.It couldn't even learn Close Combat until gen 9. What the fuck were they doing?
Shiftry's entire evolutionary line. I forget when they gave it way more moves, but good lord was it fucking useless for years
Pinsir before gen 4
>>59083831I bet Emboar was just gonna be mono fire originally
>>59083746In gen 5, all of seismitoad's line had equal attack and special attack. Gen 6 gave seismitoad ten more attack.
I know Gen 1 learnsets are to be forgiven but Flareon being unable to actually learn Ember in Yellow burns my ass
>>59083766Getting Bug Bite in Gev IV pretty much single-handedly turned Forretress from being a useless shitmon to one of the best story mode mons in HGSS.
>>59083816>No lore reasons for why it should have psychic powersThe closest thing I could think of is Amnesia is a psychic type move. The reason psyduck suffers headaches is it cannot naturally learn amnesia to alleviate its pain.
>>59083704LOL! So true!
Behold the holy grail of johto shitmonsAccess to Morty's Shadow Ball TM wouldve saved it but alas. Hidden Power with a special typing is the best attacking move it can EVER get.
>>59084213Hypnosis + dream eater?
>>59083602Golduck is identical in speed and power to KindgraWith a good Tera, it could be a low rent sweeper, on par with or even surpassing Kingdra, as Golduck can actually set up with Nasty Plot
>>59084223>a strategy you have to wait until Level 57 (or the TM in Viridian City if you're impatient) to employ in GSCUtterly laughable.
>>59084213It gets to show off Foresight very early in the game, that's good enough for me
>>59083668Hypothetical nameswap before release.
Don't you just love it when Game Freak's attempts at """balancing""" goes horribly wrong?Also Typhlosion's movepool is shit since a majority of the coverage moves are physical and not special. And why Gyro Ball on a fast Pokemon? Meganium's movepool is literally better in spite of how much shit the Pokemon gets from Pokefags.
>>59084350>And why Gyro Ball on a fast Pokemon?Trick Room Teams, obviously! :^)
>>59084295Doesn't work since it's called Golduck in Japanese too. Plus we got the localizer notes in the teraleak.>"Psyduck" is a play on the word "psychic" because it can learn techniques such as Disable. "Duck" also denotes that it's a Water-type.>The combination of luxurious "gold" and the word "duck" expresses that it has evolved, even though it's not actually gold. As such, we've kept it the same as the Japanese name.
>>59084365Considering how Game Freak was surprised over Aegislash being used as a special attacker I wouldn't put it pass them to be retards.
>Oh boy, Gengar can use Shadow Ball with its higher special attack now. Let me go find a Gastl-
>>59083835Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald's biggest sin is that like 10 Pokemon are actually usable for in-game and if happen to not train one you end up with a team of six Shiftrys
the psyduck line is one of the last gen 1 holdouts to not get any gameplay feature (mega, zmove, gmax, regional forms) so maybe Golduck will get an evo
>>59084517Not a chance. It was Masuda's favorite and now Masuda's out, and we know that GameFreak fucking HATES Masuda.
>>59083766>>59083797I've used GSC Forretress.It's legit great as an exploder, but Toxic, Gen II Sandstorm (which does 1/8th), and Double-Edge and EQ are fine.
>>59083734Support role didn't even exist in gen 2 because double battles hadn't been added yet.
>>59084586>Support role didn't even exist in gen 2 because double battles hadn't been added yet.Interesting how Shit Freak always waits for the next games to add something that should've been in the previous games.
>>59084586>what are screens>what are status moves
>>59084267Kind of based tbqh
>>59084350Typhlosion is better than both Feraligatr and Meganium though because it has one trick that works really well
>>59084652Typhlosion has never been better than Feraligatr.
>>59084652Oh so NOW being a one-trick pony is a good thing?Pokefags and their double standards as always.
>>59084662It’s better in Gamefreak’s official meta. Sorry, buddy. Eruption is more useful there, and Feraligatr is nigh useless there.>>59084678take your meds
>>59084420I thought there was supposed to be some naming parallel with the Zubat line, as Psyduck is supposed to have a middle stage and Zubat is supposed to have an earlier stage.(コバット)("Kobat")ズバット (Zubat)ゴルバット (Golbat)コダック (Koduck)(ズダック)("Zuduck")ゴルダック (Golduck)Now I don't think Kobat and Zuduck were ever confirmed names, but it creates a hierarchy of Ko > Zu > Gol, where>Ko probably comes from 子 (ko; child) like how Totodile is Waninoko ("alligator's child") or 小 (ko; small) or Pidgey is the kotori (small bird) Pokémon>Zu I have no idea, there's an adverb ずばっと zubatto that means "to cut straight to the point", "frankly", "piercingly", etc. which might refer to its fangs. -ずば (-zuba) is also an old verb extension that attaches a conditional to a negative verb, (ie. 使わずば; tsukawazuba "if I don't use" instead of the modern 使わなければ; tsukawanakereba). ズバズバ (zubazuba) means "straightforwardly", ズバリ (zubari) means decisively, and ずば抜ける (zubanukeru) means to "to be exceptional/the best by far/to decisively pull through". None of these seem to imply a middle stage, and the pun only works for Zubat. Alternatively, Zuduck could use 頭 zu for head as a reference to headaches 頭痛 (zutsuu). The one thing I'm fairly certain is that Zubat's name is also a reference to 70s tokusatsu hero, Kaiketsu Zubat, since Gen I Game Freak loved their tokusatsu, and the name there is a reference to the decisive adverb.>Gol could be from Gold ("best"), but the pun only works well with Golduck and not Golbat.So maybe the cut stages weren't going to have these names.
More like legendarily bad
This is pretty bad, but you generally evolve past it and get actual moves. In PMD however your learnset ends at Water Gun, and in the first games there's fuckall for TM's too.
>>59084074It ain't Flareon doing the burning.
I'm surprised golduck didn't get a shillmon mega that makes it look like psyduck again and gain psychic type
>>59085132Kanto Pokemon don’t get meme megas
>>59085141>what are Victreebel and Starmie
>>59085146Shit, I can’t believe I forgot about those two already.
>>59085132Golduck was excluded from Z-A despite being in every other game before, I don't think it's a "shillmon" in the same sense as other Pokémon. It's more of a staff pick than player pick.
>it's a "feed all the useful TM's in the game into this one subpar pokemon to give it a moveset" episode
Older gens without QoL romhacks to improve movesets are basically impossible to enjoy as an adult. Yeah maybe we were entertained using tackle for the millionth time in the elite 4 as kids but I need a little more now.
>>59085184Rhydon is one of the best Pokemon in the game.
>>59085219>oddish used ababoryour bro sucks shit
>>59085219>speed 40lmao
>>59083972considering the other two were mono probably, probably should've kept it mono too rather than being the 3rd fighting in a row
>>59085232>>59085239retards
>>59083704And that's a good thingNow if only the games weren't piss easy
>>59083741Leaf Blade was special in gen 3 and that alone was enough for the entire game
>>59084525All the more reason to give it a meme mega with a hideous design. Or an actually serious and cool one, I don't know which option Masuda would dislike more.
>>59083835gen 8 they did a massive move sweep and it was around there they got massive sweeping changes
>anons not actually playing the games these learnsets are fromMost of these are fine given their original contexts. You're too used to powercreep and STAB.
>>59084652You might have a better case if we're talking GSC, but HGSS its undeniable that Typhlosion is shit at coverage. Like a real flamethrower, its good for burning stuff and not much else. In a region hungry for Fire Types it's not as bad as it could be, but by endgame you'll have a fire type move, solarbeam + sunny day, earthquake if you're desperate and Focus Miss if you're REALLY desperate. Meganium and Feraligatr have much more flexible movesets, the former of which is only worse because Johto has a hateboner for the Grass type.
>>59085633in an ingame playthrough you can make do with about, i dunno, 70-80 base in an attack stat? mediocre, but not terrible.
>>59083602It's a water type. You're going to give it Surf and spam it. Complete non-issue.
>>5908360271 levels for one respectable same type attack
>>59083602Constrict is worse than splash
>>59085663I’m talking about doubles, anon. Not the story in which things are measured in how fast something can faceroll the game
>>59085698Razor Leaf is decent, its even a spread move
>>5908569855+crit ain't bad for gen IV learnset, it's the same for torterra and I've never had any issues
>>59085663>Meganium and Feraligatr have much more flexible movesetsHow DARE you say something positive about Meganium! I'm reporting you to the Mossad right this instant!
>>59084476A good 90% of mons are using only mono normal or resisted moves until mid 20s where night shade is still good enough to be worth using until gastly/haunter gets shadow ball (not even mentioning curse or shadow punch being good enough for a level 25 haunter)
Feebas is all the pain of raising a magikarp, magnified by its encounter luck and evolution method.
>>59083741I'll never get over that Emerald playthrough where I realized Treecko is actually a piece of garbage until Grovyle picks up Leaf Blade at level 29. Ruined a cool pokemon for me. Shit's weaker than Chikorita.
>>59083677>this shit was norm up to gen 7Another reason to hack 3ds
>>59084662See picrelated Nintendo cup 2000, and yes meganium was better too>>59084678They aren’t saying being a one trick pony is good, but that blowing shit up is a fairly good trick to have if you only have one >>59085663>Johto has a hateboner for the Grass type.It’s less johto hates grass types and more all the types grass would have a strong advantage are stuck in KantoMeganium’s “poor performance in Johto and it not even that bad, I even doubt it’s the grass starter with the worst in game performance) is more about its being defensive focus. >>59084781Typhlosion was able to place well in a few regionals back during the broken mega evolution era. Not much but most non-mega starters aside from Roar and Rilla and weirdly Empoleon have never even accomplished that much, And its regional was excellent during SV despite that fucker being slower and not having an ability soley because being able to spam Eruption without worrying about fake out is just that good
>>59086118>not a single johtomon in S or S- tierno wonder none of the johto gym leaders use johtomons
Any water type that can make use of surf and ice beam is immune to learnset gore
>>59086118My girl misdreavus holding strong up there!
The worst moveset gore of all time is zubats transition from gen 7 to 8.We went from bite at 11 and wing attack at 17 to poison fang at 15, air cutter at 25, and bite at 30Absolutely disgusting
>>59083752>he doesn't know you're supposed to get the Earthquake Gligar in Stadium 2
PSA: balanced movesets does not mean every pokemon gets powerful STAB and coverage off their best attacking stat
>>59083766I like using Forretress to set up Screens.
>"Bug pokemon evolve quickly! That means they get strong quickly!"
>>59084662Typhlosion had 109 Special Attack and could actually use it in the Game Boy days, and it got Thunderpunch for coverage
>>59086201>Spider Web? Don't you mean Sticky Web?>its real Holy shit, such a shit mon I had no idea it had a signature move until right fucking now
>>59086230I can't fathom why they made ariados/ledian so irredeemably shit. I'm not even expecting them to be good for the whole game, but what are any of them doing against anything in the earlygame? Using Scary Face against Bugsy? Trying and failing to get a Comet Punch out before Miltank obliterates them with a Rollout that's enough to kill it five times over?
>>59086244The fact that they're version exclusives makes their existence even worseForcing you to seek out garbage as if its a commodity
>>59086181True, but I feel like a half-decent STAB should be the bare minimum. It's not bad game design to have TM hogs but you only have so many to go around in the early gens. It's more acceptable in some cases like how every Water type gets Surf so things like >>59085107 and >>59083602 are more excusable.Still, imagine breeding a Psyduck egg in Gen 3 and giving it to a friend only for them to realize that you get no water STAB for practically the whole game. Just seems like a lack of thought on GameFreak's part.
>>59084350It gets thunderpunch and Earth power iirc and it's not exactly slow, that already makes it better than Meganium.
>>59086318It doesn’t get Earth Power it gets Scorching Sands. Megankum got earth power in PLZA, though it’s unclear if it will keep it
>>59086323Meganium's fate is still pending on the mega's ability.What is currently has doesn't make up for anything because of poor typing, virtually no ability and stats that don't compliment anything, despite the pretty damn good support and coverage movepool.The Mega needs Triage or something as strong or it's truly the end of Meganium.
>>59086181they should at least be fun to playWith shit like Chansey and Shuckle there's only so much you can do, but couldn't Natu atleast get Gust or Wing Attack or something in HGSS?
I love this mon but even in a solo playthrough it is a pain in the ass to use before HG/SS. The only good move it learns is Glare, everything else is useless garbage.
>>59086244In a game where the first gym is flying type and of course many trainers have either pidgey or geodude because remember kanto guys
>>59083704Better than learning fucking nothing for 90% of the game.
A lot of the early game stuff is too easy. Here's one from SV>Used to learn Faint Attack, Punishment and Beat Up, the two more reliable options were cut from the game without adding Bite or another similar compensation>Ice Shard was just removed one day for no raisin
>>59083831Head Smash and Hammer Arm should be switched is the only issue
>>59084662Better at not being a worse Gyarados
>>59084678Scizor has been beloved for actual decades and that nigga has 1 trick he's used since 2009.
>exists only to evolve as soon as possible>gives you an incentive for it to be useless for 50 levels
>>59085219... for pvp. By this point in the game your Nidoking outclasses a potential rhydon (you have to evolve the rhyhorn at level 40)
>>59085700Splash doesnt trigger Iron Barbs or Rocky Helmet so you may be onto something
>>59086118>I even doubt it’s the grass starter with the worst in game performanceSerperior handily takes the cake. Imagine a fast Meganium, and all the stat points to make it fast came from its offenses. Oh and no limbs so no movepool.Honorable mention goes to Chesnaught who can be easily oneshot by the rival Greninja's Aerial Ace even when overleveled.
>>59086519That's such an incentive too. What is that?
>>59086132They make up half or more of A-, A, and A+ thoughever. Maybe johto wasnt as bad as we thought?
>>59086176No. Zubat's transition into gen 7.>absorbGet the fuck outta here
>>59086226Only at the very end of the game. Before that, you need to babysit a Qwilava using Flame Wheel until late game.
>>59086355>couldn't Natu atleast get Gust or Wing Attack or somethingI love going out of my way to catch a new and exotic totem bird, just for it to play exactly like Pidgey
>>59086533ClamperlUsing prevo learnsets feels like cheating
>>59086519Clamperl is a weird case because Deep Sea Tooth basically gives it huge power for special attack, and a 74 SpA is not bad at all for that. So despite everything there's a reason to not want to evolve this thing as fast as you can
>>59086551>not even defense curl to make rollout good>>59086539It's to make Zubat strong against the trillions of Geodude it has to live with
>>59086539That was so bizarre. "Lets buff Leech Life's BP by 50. Now we need to go back and remove Leech Life from every Pokémon that learned it at a low level."Why not just make a brand new move?
It's only being posted here because of the glaring omission of Leech Seed in Sun/Moon. Until Ultra, it was impossible to get a Bulbasaur with it without transfer.
Have fun trying to teach>Thunder (costs 5500 coins from the Game Corner)or>Zap Cannon (post-game only, 50 accuracy)or>Thunderbolt (post-game only, costs 4000 coins and the move tutor that teaches it only shows up on Wednesdays and Saturdays... and only in Crystal version)to this thing.
>>59086568Funny part is that same gen added Lunge, an 85 bp physical bug move with a decent effect, so it's not like it was done for the sake of giving bug a good physical stab not named U-Turn. They just really fucking wanted Leech Life to be Buzzwole's not-quite-signature move extremely badly.
>>59086575>they accidentally gave bulbasaur vine whip at level 7 and 9Holy kek how do you fuck this up? This is right after XY and legpiss too so it's not like bulbasaur hadnt been relevant or anything
That's pretty much any moveset before Gen 4. Upon replaying Fire Red on the Switch I was looking at Nidoking and I didn't realize how dogshit it was. Poison sting as the ONLY poison move it learns level up. Every Pokémon is pretty much like that but you only get one rock slide, earthquake, sludge bomb and psychic.
>>59083734I used a Yanma/Yanmega in Soulsilver once. Never again. Yanma was awful and Yanmega's pretty good stats didn't matter when it was using non-stab Shadow Ball (only decent tm it could learn) and Ancientpower against the Elite Four. At least the wonky level curve meant that Sonic Boom did somewhat ok damage for way longer than it normally would.
>>59086740Well technically you could reteach it bug bite. In Gen 9 they moved bug bite to be a level 30 level up move. From what I can tell the earliest you can ever get Yanma for a team is Kitakami.
>>59086755You can access Kitakami almost immediately, within the first hour.
>>59086545fine smartass, how about giving it Acupressure and Defog and get rid of bullshit like Me First and Psycho Shift since its such an exotic and mystical pokemon that can SEE INTO THE FUTURE and would just be a support shitter you pivot to anyway. Pull down Psychic from level fucking 59 down to 37 while we're at it.
>>59086244"So here's this ladybug with boxing gloves for hands that's based off of japanese superheroes and which learns a bunch of physical punching moves. Give it 35 base attack"Why
>>59086813It used to learn a bunch of special punching moves.
>>59085159Psyduck is the shillmon, Golduck isn't. Between Misty and Pokemon Concierge and other stuff they clearly have a preference for Psyduck and don't give a shit once it evolves.
>>59086425It hasn't gotten much better other than it getting Gunk Shot super late. I used Arbok in USUM and it sucked not having any proper stab until I got the Poison Jab TM in Victory Road. It was still surprisingly useful though. Intimidate, Glare and Screech let it debilitate Totems fairly well.
>>59086813It was added before the physical/special split but having 55 SpA isn't much better.
>>59086532Just played soulsilver with meganium and am currently in white 2 with the snake and I heartily disagree. Leech seed alone makes serp feel better, I have no idea why they locked it behind egg moves for meganium for so long. Later on you get coil and leaf blade which are more reliable than petal dance and way cheaper than burning an earthquake tm trying to put lipstick on a pig. Man I was still running poisonpowder (easily the worst powder move, also the only one it gets!) at the 8th gym just to have it make some kind of progress. Meganium ended up being a dual screens bot with body slam for hopeful paras that I ended up finally giving up on in Kanto. If I'm picking between meganium and fast meganium with leech seed, please give me the fast meganium. I'm sure it's solid in ZA but I have not played that game.
>>59086827>poison type>bite at level 1>gets crunch upon evolution>gets 3 other biting moves from the relearner>doesn't get poison fang via level-upWhat the fuck is their problem?
Lickitung couldn't learn Lick in gen 1.
>>59083602>physical flying type early game bird>doesn't get brave bird for some reason>can't even learn aerial ace via level up, you need to find the tm first>instead of improving its movepool in any way, they REMOVED FACADE FOR NO REASON so that it gets even less physical stabWhat are they even doing.
>>59086539Leech life was just as bad so that was a wash.
>>59086874Fucked up shit because as far as stats go, this really isn't bad for an early game bird. Super Luck is a pretty decent ability too.
>>59086874>gets air slash>gets night slash>doesn't get regular slash at all
Shout out to Beedril having one of the tiniest egg movepools I've ever seen. And regular movepool for a while. Now I get that it's meant to be a starting shitmon but Butterfree is the same and gets more.
>>59083602>Play gen 2>See Pokemon>Look up moveset>It's trashIt's crazy how common this is.
>>59084213You use it to clear early game bugs.It's like Fearow but it learns hypnosis, which is good enough.
>>59085184To be fair, that's basically every gen 1 Pokemon. Only trade evolutions get good movesets
>>59086544You get Thunderpunch and Firepunch in the Goldenrod Department Store
>>59087043Qwilava doesn't learn those, and it evolves late. You're practically at the Elite Four by the time you get Typhlosion.
>>59087043>>59087049I was over generous, because Qwilava doesn't even get Flame Wheel until 31. Enjoy Ember and Rollout as your main offensive options. Or delaying Cyndaquil's evolution by 13 levels.
>>59083602Funny enough I plan on using Golduck in a Pokemon Ruby run. Dive + Surf + Waterfall as an HM slave.
>>59086632I used the in-game trade Voltorb in HGSS and taught it Thunder since you can buy that TM from the Goldenrod Department Store. The low PP kind of sucked but it demolished every Gyarados it came across at least.
>water type fags going on about "oh woe is me" when their special attacking water type doesn't get a water move in their learnset>All water type fags brains are so small they all forget each and every water type has access to an infinite amount of strong STAB in Surf
>>59087075OK let's just take Water Gun and Bubble away from Squirtle since it can learn Surf that'll get you through Mt Moon
>>5908704936 is not late, stop being hyperbolic
>>5908717336 is when you're about to fight Claire, if not the Elite Four. And it's not a 36 you're using the whole time because you're stuck with just Ember for so long. Typhlosion seems good on paper, but it's shit in practice.
>>59087182The point was Typhlosion is better than Ferligatr
>>59087198Not with the amount of babysitting it needs. Feraligatr doesn't have very as high special attack, but Surf makes up for that compared to Fire Punch. You're not getting Flamethrower until postgame.
>>59087198Different anon but i disagree considering that Magmar is strictly better than Quilava and Typhlosion for most of the game. Magmar's stats are generally worse than Typhlosions, but immediately better than Quilava's. It also learns ThunderPunch and Fire Punch through TM right away, and gets Flamethrower at 41, nearly 20 levels before Typhlosion can, and 13 before Quilava can. By the VERY end of the game, Typhlosion is stronger, but from Ecruteak City until pretty much the fight with Red, Magmar is way better imo. If i'm playing gen 2 and use Cyndaquil as a starter, i make sure to replace it with Magmar once i get access to it.Red Gyarados similarly outclasses Feraligatr, especially since it comes at level 30 and you're required to encounter it, but it's a lot closer I feel like, considering Gyarados has generally better stats, but worse sp.atk, and a HORRIBLE learnset.
>>59087239Kinda forgot to mention why i think Typhlosion isn't better than Feraligatr, but my point was that Quilava/Typhlosion is strictly outclassed and easily replaceable for most of the game, whereas i think it's a bit harder to justify replacing Croconaw/Totodile, even if in a vacuum, Typhlosion honestly is better probably.
>>59087239>>59087209You can solo the entire game with Typhlosion, I did it to get my Shiny Celebi on virtual console36 is not that late if you're running Solo-phlosion
>>59087250You can solo the whole game with like, pretty much any fuckin pokemon though, it's not a hard game obviously. Doesn't mean it's not fun to optimize and teambuild and shit
>>59086532>starter with the worst in game performance>Serperior handily takes the cakeThe worst in-game starter is Ruby Sceptile, leagues worse than Meganium or Serperior.
>No flying type moves until 31>When it does finally get one, its a peck clone.>When Fearow comes with Peck and learns the more than twice as powerful drill peck around the same time.>When Fearow has better attack and speed, and higher everything else for 16 levels too for that matter.Using the Pidgey line in gen 1 is suffering. Its only boon is its ok level rate, but that doesn't make up for horrible stats and awful movepool.
>>59087198Typhlosison's Fire Punch and Feraligatr's Surf are equally strong, and Feraligatr is flat out the better mon for GSC in-game runs.Typh wins in HGSS thanks to much more accessible Fire Blast and Choice Specs.
It doesn't matter which gen. I'd actually post one but I'd be banned for posting NSFW material.
>>59083766>>59083797>>59084083If you spend a little bit of time hatching one, you can get one with Pin Missile in Gen 2 before leaving Goldenrod. That's what I did - its a good user of Pin Missile too. Once it evolves it wrecks shit
>>59087260There's no fucking way 109 vs 79 Special Attack are equal I will say Sheer Orb Ferligatr is fucking cool these daysTyphlosion of today is pretty much just an Eruption button
>>59087209>>59087260The feraligatr sp.Att slander needs to stop.Its 79. 79x1.5(stab) = 118Its water moves are roughly on par with its physical ones, and water/normal has perfect coverage until shedinja.Gen 2 also didn't have natures/evs to ruin mixed attacking
>>59086874>>59086949Literally all they had to do was give it Slash and everything else would be tolerable. It might even be dare I say it, fun to use. Like Farfetch'd 2.0.It also got Brave Bird in later gens but it's hard to shake off a bad first impression. Guess GameFreak was still stuck in the mindset that early route mons have to be shitters.
>>59083602>Meganium should be Grass/Fairy!!!!!!
>>59087332>later gens will fix it chudby the way, this is a Special Attacker
Idk both typhlosion and feraligatr feel like they can get outclassed in their own gen. Arcanine and gyarados put in work, and then there's entei and suicune that mog>>59087299Sheer orb is cool yeah
>>59087239Gyarados is worse solely because it doesn’t get a free Ice Punch. And it gobbles exp more than Feraligatr, which is actively obnoxious in GSC.
>>59087299>Feraligatr Surf vs. Chansey: 86-102 (12.2 - 14.5%)>Typhlosion Fire Punch vs. Chansey: 84-99 (11.9 - 14%)It actually is better, lmao. This is with nothing on them and using GSC btw
>>59087420Sounds about right, although maybe Gyarados is better in hgss. I still stand firm on what i said about Magmar tho, at least in GSC, no more elemental punches in hgss means that Magmar probably isn't worth using
>>59087437I support Magmar propaganda. I knew you motherfuckers would wake up to it eventually.
I genuinely love Carnivine and wanted to use one in my last Platinum playthrough, caught one in the great marsh before deciding to look up it's learn and wow, this guy is pure suffering. They really did not give a shit about giving grass physical options once they made the split in gen 4.
>>59087443I'm a magmar defender, love the whole evo line, Magmortar is pure kino in B2W2
>>59087392Gen 2 gyarados is butts. Slow growth rate, worse sp.att, worse coverage options, worse type. Its physical attacks hit harder, but gatr is more flexible.Suicune is probably better but its coverage moves are worse. It only gets aurora beam in crystal.I can see the magmar argument, but entei is probably worse. Thunderpunch helps a ton with coverage.>>59087437Gen 4 gyarados is a beast because of phys/special split. Feraligatr got screwed by it.
>>59087454I remember doing a SoulSilver playthough like 10 years ago where i traded over a Carnivine just so i had a different pokemon to use, surprisingly it was actually able to hold its own weight somehow. It's certainly not very good, although at least Levitate is nice i guess
>>59087454Fuck, I actually forgot leaf blade existed, why the fuck couldn't it get it?
>>59087462I'm thinking hgss specifically yeah. Or polished crystal too ig. Feraligatr is still a better choice. Growlithe can be a discount quilava for quite some time, and you do need a surf bot.
>>59083602Hot take, pokemon as a game would be better balance-wise if all of them learned at most their STABs+one other type move instead of some being stuck with exactly what I mentioned previously while others get fucking everything.
>>59087454Razor leaf and leaf blade existed in gen 4, but they just didn't give pokemon access to it.Its extra funny because leaf blade is sceptiles signature move, but the split made it worse for them.Gen 4 gave it to victreebel(hgsspt), bellossom (hgsspt), leafeon(level 71), gallade, farfetch'd (egg), & tropius (egg)They had to have been trolling
>>59083749Yeah, it's gen III, everything with a few exceptions is made out of paper.
>>59087495I think maybe doing TMs for coverage would be fine
>>59083838it still can't learn megahorn even now
>>59083838Hey buddy i think you got the wrong door. Fighting type is two blocks down.
>>59085159Golduck is a worse case of Raichuism where people stop giving a shit about it once it evolves. The difference is Raichu still has fans, where as Golduck is just a tumor on the actually popular Pokemon
>>59086090Motherfucker, Feebas literally has no use in battle. By the time you get one in RS you can evolve it because of the various Contest tents that allow you to make Dry PokeBlocks. In Emerald you have to wait for Lilycove, but that's not too far off when you catch Feebas
>>59087437>no more elemental punches in hgss means that Magmar probably isn't worth usingIs it that much more than HGSS Typhlosion with no Thunderpunch?
>>59087547If you're not taking cyndaquil why even bother with a fire type at that point.They're not useful hm mules and their coverage is managed by other pokemon
>hm mules
>>59087566I've never had to whip my mules
>>59087462Gyarados in HGSS still has exp working against it but you can catch a level 50 Magikarp right after getting Surf and chuck that detriment in the trash. It’s really ridiculous
>>59087239Crystal pushes Electabuzz, Raichu and Magmar into post-game so I personally prefer to manipulate the Odd Egg to net me a Shiny Elekid who can manage all 3 of their jobs plus Ice Punch pretty much out of the egg thanks to Goldenrod's TMs. You could manip to get other junk too like Cleffa, Pichu, Igglybuff or Tyrogue but they aren't worth it in comparison, especially since how scarce evolutionary stones are in JohtoIt almost feels intentional how much Crystal railroads you into picking Elekid out of the Odd Egg due to removing most of those options by that point in the game. Even removing the Burned Tower Magmar feels kind of unnecessary
Thank you for reminding me that HGSS took away the elemental punch TMs. What a bastard.
>>59087640I've never played Crystal as opposed to GS but that sounds a lot shittier tbqh, although i guess getting a shiny from the odd egg is probably neat
>>59087931Yeah Masuda made a lot of weird decisions with Crystal (removing Ampharos is the move ever) but Odd Egg really fills the gap left by a lot of the push back. It was originally intended to be something you got doing Japan's little GBC mobile phone connection thing so you were supposed to get more than one Odd Egg, but localization removed a lot of that, like the GS Ball event. Crystal is a much better game in the context of the original Japanese release (the mobile stuff is why it's even called Crystal to begin with)Gen II relied a lot more on connectivity with other games than Gen I did, and Gen III doubled down on this. I don't think it was until Platinum that they finally made a game that didn't really heavily rely on other games for the sake of getting the most out of it
>>59087963Shame about the Odd Egg giving you some inbred window licker with straight 0's in all DV's. Wonder how they fucked that up.
>>59087963Can't crystal combine with gold or silver to get all the exclusives? That might be why its so weird with availability
>>59087999Mankey and Vulpix are still exclusive to Gold and Silver, respectively. Other than those two, you can pick either one of the games and get everything with Crystal's help.
>>59086327Genuinely baffled it still didn't receive calm mind, and the fact they made its mega form a physical attacker
>>59087963I don't think it was until Platinum that they finally made a game that didn't really heavily rely on other games for the sake of getting the most out of itAgreed, i do appreciate that gen 4 has a shit load of spinoffs, namely My Pokemon Ranch and Battle Revolution, so you can still do all the connectivity if you want to get more out of the games, but not like how the Gamecube era did it where a bunch of pokemon are locked to an entirely different console. (I'm a huge gen 4 fag)
>>59088070Mega Meganium? It was turned from a mixed attacker to fully special. Honestly, it would have been better as a physical attacker because it has SD and EQ.
>>59086327Still coping about a support mega ever being viable in anything, huh
>>59086327>poor typingPokemon """fans""" who said that Meganium should be Grass/Fairy don't get the right to complain about Mega Meganium being Grass/Fairy.
>>59088342goomba_twitter.webp
>>59087999>>59088039You'll need a Kanto game anyway for the Gen I starters and legendaries so unless you get into the funny business of ACEing the remaining mons, you'll need a minimum of 3 games to complete the Gen II dex. Since Mankey and Vulpix are also exclusives in Gen I, that also complicates things. JP Blue/Yellow should be enough to fill those gaps though
>>59088397>You'll need a Kanto game anyway for the Gen I starters and legendariesAnd the fossils
>>59088397Red+Silver or Blue+Gold, with Crystal(or the opposite gen 2 game), can get you 249/251.
>>59088397>>59088418Reminds me of how you can get the entire gen 4 dex with HG, SS, Pt (with events) outside of specifically skuntank and purugly's lines.
Two fucking Physical Grass/Ghost counterpart lines in XY.Gourgeist is basically a honorary Grass/Fire but can't use the better moves cause it's physical for some reason.
>>59088677Game Freak's over"""balancing""" always fucks over the good shit.
>>59087063Golduck is THE HM slave. It learns everything but fly and cut.
>>59083602jesus, no wonder slowpoke was recommended.
>>59086996Not even. Gastly line didn’t have a good natural moveset. Machop’s was shit too. Kadabra had the best natural moveset in the game, though that is also because Psychic was broken as fuck in Gen 1. At least Geodude got EQ.
They did yanmega so dirty, why the fuck did they make its already ridiculous level requirement for good STAB moves even higher in Pt and HGSS?
>>59087888Was there no move tutor either? I haven't played it in ages
>>59089052Yes, but in the battle frontier.
It's a special kind of learnset gore.
>>59089083This was just another contributor to why I hated SM so much. I evolve Cubone and then find out they put Shadow Bone in Marowak's learnset 1 level before you can actually get it, and then find out the move relearner is in the E4's front yard.
Drowzee still can't learn Dream Eater
>>59084213>>59083734Gamefreak really designed Johto like this, barred evo stones to the fucking post-game for some reason (initially), and said they didn't even want to design half of the mons. It's no wonder everyone just runs starter + gyarados in those games. >>59084350It's because Typhlosion was a last second addition to the game>Cyndaquil was designed as some early game normal type shitmon >given early game normal type shitmon moves>very late in development, they changed the starter bear to Teddiursa to capitalize on the honey tree mechanic they didn't bother implementing>drew fire over Cyndaquil's sprite and made an evo line for it>hastily threw some fire attacks at its early rodent moveset and just copy pasted Charmander's statsIt's forever doomed by their viewpoint of it as a cobbled together route 1 normal type shitmon wearing Charizard's clothing. At least the regional replacement is decent.
>>59089095It doesn't get a physical fire move until 53 because of this too.They made this game twice and didn't fix this. And it's a fucking totem pokemon, it's one of the big stars. Absurd.
>>59089125Really? We’re Chikorita and Totodile early or late dev additions?
>>59089145Chikorita was the first of Johto starters made, that's why its the intended shillmon. not sure how later Totodile was added but the original johto water starter was a blob that evolved into a lapras rip off
>>59089154>Chikorita was the first of Johto starters madeThen why is it so fucking bad?
>>59089145nta but Chikorita was the only mon that was planned from the start of the trio. It still evolved into Meganium, but it was supposed to be a mole transforming into a dragon (JP word for mole is "Ground Dragon"). Feraligatr replaced a very lazy loch ness monster designAnon's overselling how recent the change was, it was when Masuda tossed out the "all of Japan" map and cut it down to just Kansai. Typhlosion and Feraligatr were already in the game as early as 1998. Mons like Lugia and Wooper (not Quagsire) were last minute
>>59089144Doesn't it get Fire Punch as a tutor?
>>59089159because its a symptom of game freak hating/undervaluing johto as a whole (meaning even their favorites from Johto get scraps compared to the favorites from every other gen), and game freak being retarded (they worship CHARIZARD and that fucker was the worst choice for KANTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO playthroughs). Remember Game Freak barely knows how their own game works, Game Freak wasn't made by programmers, it was made by otaku who wanted an excuse to draw loli porn,
>>59089178Oh.
>>59087259>all the pidgey normoids who thought pidgeot was le better because... it evolves twice!!Fearowgods...
>>59089159>Then why is it so fucking bad?I agree.Why was Treecko so absolutely shit in gen 3?
>>59089210They assumed it’d be carried by rule of cool. And it was, for the most part.
>>59086740This thing fucks in platinum. Skill issue perhaps?
>>59089235Are you crazy, look at this learnset >>59088845 and tell me uproar ad sonic boom are acceptable past midgame.
>>59089191Dodrio too, though you get it later than Fearow and Pidgey.
>>59089241Delay the evo my son, and you have a 95 speed special attacker with Hypnosis. Also there is a tutor for air cutter near the marsh you get it and it's easily the best use of your giga drain tm. Also keep in mind with tinted lens it doesnt need coverage at all.
>>59089256Dodrio is better than both, through Gen 3. STAB Drill Peck and physical Tri-Beam is great on a speedy physical attacker.
>>59089225The "rule of cool" is a rejection of reality, ultimately being the manifestation of a false reality in one's image due to the pride and refusal of not accepting the truth.Sceptile is shit just like Meganium is shit.Tyrantrum is shit just like Aurorus is shit.Luxray is shit just like Zebstrika is shit.Lycanroc is shit just like Boltund is shit.Torterra is shit just like Rhyperior is shit.Rapidash is shit just like Pyroar is shit.Galarian Zapdos is shit just like Kommo-o is shit.
>>59084213Level 41 Confusion is just peak gen 2 trash
>>59087477>>59087497Thematically it has no leaves, only vines.It should have gotten a signature mid power physical grass move like Needle Arm but vines.
>>59086813I still think it was an unintentional error, and they accidentally gave it a high sp.def stat instead
>>59089483Zebstrika is better than Luxray
>>59089483Torterra is great in-game. It's learnset is as far from this thread as it gets.
>>59089770>Luxray learns Wild Charge via level up>at level 80
>>59089913The lion does not concern itself with main story usability
>>59089923Clearly it doesnt concern itself with even being ok in meme formats like randbats either
>>59089083Was there supposed to be an alolan cubone too?
>>59086095The fact that Game Freak couldn't be assed to at least give Treecko/Grovyle Razor Leaf made me unreasonably mad as a kid. I was like how in the FUCK does it not have this basic grass move even wild Oddish has. A move literally every early grass type gets.Note: They still don't learn it.
>>59089083There were an unreasonable number of infuriating learn sets in Gen 7.Remember this fucker? Yeah, it was a Route 1 shitmon, but it has single-player campaign potential. Good attack, a great ability in Strong Jaws...But holy shit, your sole Normal STAB on it is TACKLE until LEVEL 31, at which point you get TAKEDOWN. You're lucky you get an ability-boosted Bite (god forbid you decided to run its signature Stake Out ability). You don't get Crunch until 39 and Hyper Fang until Level 43, which is close to the endgame at that point... to top it all off it's got Alola-itis and is both incredibly slow and rather frail, so you're constantly feeding it Potions between battles. Alolan Rattata/Raticate is LEAGUES better than this thing. Maybe that was intentional to promote the new forms. Either way mine was level 38 or 39 when I decided to dump this thing into the PC. I was so sick of it I didn't care to wait a handful of more levels and used another, cooler new Pokémon instead that I had recently come across.
>>59087517Buck you
>>59083668Gold is associated with psychic/ESP abilities, which both Psyduck and Golduck haveThe actual question is why they aren't Water/Psychic
>>59089535I know you said thematically. But it's fucking ARMS are LEAVES!
>>59087454>STILL doesn't know Snap Trap>STILL no ability making it immune to Bug-movesSuffering
>>59083741>>59086095You get the bullet seed TM as soon as you come out of the forest.
>>59090363>10 power move that has a 25% chance to be as strong as Absorb with none of the benefits or a 50 power moveThe fact this is Grovyle's only other option for STAB outside of Absorb is very dire. If it was even 15 power that would justify it over Absorb, but it's a move you're going to overwrite for Leaf Blade anyway which is a huge problem with the limited use of early series TMs
>>59090449Didn't realize Bullet Seed got buffed in gen 5...
>>59090337>>STILL doesn't know Snap TrapIt hasn't shown up in a game with G-Stunfisk yet.
>>59089125The evo stone thing was so players could use the time capsule mechanic.
>>59090082Why would you use any normal move that isn't return?
>>59085184>>59085219What I wanna know about Rhydon is why exactly is Horn Drill such a seemingly a tailor-made iconic move for it when it sucks at using it in gen 1 (thanks to being so slow).
>>59090878>Horn drillI tend to associate it more with fissure. Horn drill is seaking.Yes, I know it was actually waterfall.
>>59090099Because Slowpoke already took that spot. Hoothoot also should have been psychic/flying btw.
>>59084476Hypnosis invalidates opponents from the word go, then for a few levels you can swap to another mon to finish the job until you learn Curse and Night Shade so Gastly can start putting in work itself. Getting a really good STAB move at lv29 is not a fucking given in gen 4, the Gastly line should count its blessings (it has not always counted them, hence Levitate became Cursed Body as punishment).
>>59090449Bullet Seed + the miracle seed that you get in Petalburgh Woods are enough to hold you over until level 29. Idk how the math works but even 2 hits from bullet seed always does more damage than absorb in practice so it’s a worthwhile upgrade. I certainly don’t deny that the Treecko line is underpowered for a starter, but it really doesn’t gimp you as hard as you’d think. Basically every Pokémon in RSE is offensively underpowered in one way or another so it evens out. I actually prefer it this way even, RSE are the only Pokémon games where super effective moves don’t always one shot even the route fodder you’re up against, which forces you to account for chip damage by managing resources and utilizing actual strategy. Pokémon is at its worst when you’re able to effortlessly sweep your opponents.
why?
>>59090846Hyper Fang is genuinely pretty good>>59090991>but even 2 hits from bullet seed always does more damage than absorb in practice so it’s a worthwhile upgradeOnly on crit, and you'd need to hit at least 3 times to do more than crit Absorb. Even then, Grovyle REALLY should've gotten Mega Drain which is at least on par with Ember, a move Combusken copes with just fine. This is in comparison to Nepobaby Marshomp getting fucking Mudshot for simply existingMain problem is Treecko is pretty outdone by Shroomish for most of the mid-late game, early game isn't a problem in Shroomish's case because you'll have a better starter to lean on than Treecko. This is why Ralts usually gets a pass for being a useless shitmon. The latter Grass-type has better utility to work with, even disregarding Spore completely, while Treecko has less to work with than even Chikorita. Doesn't help Treecko is completely unviable playing Ruby. Which is likely an oversight since Sapphire was the game designed first, likely meaning the swap for all of the Carvanha to Numel being a last minute decision was something that they didn't even think about with Treecko's balanceAnyway, main reason for your latter point is due to the point of the thread, moveset gore. Too many mons don't have good moves until their 40s, unless you pop for TMs like Flamethrower/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Psychic/Dig/etc. Effortless isn't fun, but tons of mons lack kill potential early on which can be frustrating to deal with the 77th Hoenn shitmon you wanted to try for your team only to go back to an old reliable. Some Hoenn mons are underrated, I'll vouch for Zangoose and Banette being genuinely good despite their anemic movepools, but Hoenn's options are genuinely middling since the new mons are basically separated into 4 categories>Decent, accessible mons that get the job done>Shitmon that has a better countarpart>Mon designed solely to be a boss and nothing else>Completely inaccessible in the main game
>>59090082They keep designing Pokemon with Strong Jaw as their ability like it also provides STAB. Just give them it already, this change wouldn't even really buff the eleVish in the room since "that certain move" already has STAB
>>59091258>Only on crit>Lvl 12 0 SpA 0 IVs Treecko Absorb vs. Lvl 15 0 HP 0 IVs / 0 SpD 0 IVs Nosepass: 6-8 (17.6 - 23.5%) -- possible 5HKO>Lvl 12 0 SpA 0 IVs Treecko Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. Lvl 15 0 HP 0 IVs / 0 SpD 0 IVs Nosepass: 15-18 (44.1 - 52.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 2HKOThe range on a single hit of bullet seed here is 5-6, whereas absorb is 6-8. Like I said, I don't understand the math, but apparently 10 base power doesn't necessarily translate to half the damage of a 20 base power attack. I'm not just crunching numbers online here either, I first noticed this in actual gameplay and only later confirmed it on smogon's damage calc. It evens out as you progress so its probably an oddity inherent to calculating damage at earlier levels when you have less HP, but still, Bullet Seed will always outdamage absorb until roughly the mid 20s, at which point leaf blade isn't far off anyway. The reason I say all this is because I'm using Treecko with Bullet seed in a run of sapphire right now and have found it's damage output more than reasonable. I used to never use bullet seed precisely because I figured the damage wasn't worth more than absorbs HP restoration but I regret it now, relying on bullet seed for damage output legitimately feels great. Mega Drain would be nice but the lack of PP would prevent it from being a reliable attack to spam for damage, whereas bullet seed's 30 PP let me use my Grovyle as the early/mid-game machine gun it was likely meant to be.As for your other points, I see what you're saying, and maybe I'm just a masochist, but I stand on the fact that using 40-60 power moves well into the late game is enjoyable. It helps that RSE are 'snappy' to play, because if I had to deal with it in gen 4 I think I'd find it a lot more annoying when my moves hit like wet tissue paper.
bros... we can run five different moves now... we're so back...
>>59091365Even if the damage calcs worked in a logical way at low levels, Bullet Seed would still be an improvement because it would at worst match Absorb. >1/3 of the time it would do 50% more damage, and have the capability to go up to 250% of Absorb's damage.
>>59084350>And why Gyro Ball on a fast Pokemon?Because Cyndaquil curls into a ball, geniusNot all the moves have to be competitively viable (see Hariyama: Brine)
>>59091482Teaching Makuhita/Hariyama Surf in Ruby was fun.
>>59090082>tackle until the 30'sgen 1 larper
>>59091011I love Lileep and Cradily but man did they suck in their debut gen.
>SEISMItoad>"The vibrating of the bumps all over its body causes earthquake-like tremors.">only way it gets earthquake is from a postgame TM
>>59091932there's not enough BW1 posting itt
>>59091482if Cyndaquil/Typhlosionn were a shillmon it would have gotten a competitively viable move in place of that thoughever
>>59089125Wasn't cyndaquils sprite for an ice/poison pokemon?
>>59092978We don't have any references for what the sprite was for, it's just assumed the spikes were icicles cause of the way they were shaded but really they just look like spikes to me. You can call this thing Togedemaru and I wouldn't blame you (this pallet is because they were using it to sprite Larvitar). As far as we know, the original Fire/Water starters were already scrapped when Masuda rebooted Gen II's development. This is one of the earliest sprites though
>>59086640That's because its Japanese name is blood suck. They can't really create any new blood moves.
>stuck with pursuit until level 36, or at least 29 if you stick with Eevee>dark pulse TM is in victory road
>>59092226>purposefully don't teach it any level up coverage moves like revenge or slash>purposefully don't teach it any tm (infinite use mind you) coverage moves like bulldoze, X scissor, aerial ace or blizzard>still has really good moves despite them only being water even if it was JUST razor shell>still complains???
>>59085107tackle mudslap watergun attract/icebeam/hydropump is more than enough in pmd
>>59093150erm, you can get the Payback TM right after you get Eevee in HGSS
>>59089483>>59089770luxray gets intimidate so its automatically better and more useful
>>59093163Were TMs infinite use in Gen 5? I thought that started in SwSh.
>>59093043So basically the reason game freak hates Cyndaquil and by extension the rest of its family is because they’re still malding that masuada rightfully scraped the temu fire pikachu and replaced it with one of the few designs from the beta that wasn’t an eyesore, and masuda’s was too much of a cuck to make sure the family was allowed to get anything because he’s too much of a Charizard-obsessed retard to notice?
>>59093270>Were TMs infinite use in Gen 5?Yes.
>>59091258>Only on crit, and you'd need to hit at least 3 times to do more than crit Absorb. Even then, Grovyle REALLY should've gotten Mega Drain which is at least on par with Ember, a move Combusken copes with just fine. This is in comparison to Nepobaby Marshomp getting fucking Mudshot for simply existingSo funny thing you may already know: The line CAN get Mega/Giga Drain by level before ORAS but only if you hold off on evolving Treecko long enough. Giga Drain sat at a cozy level 46 before ORAS brought it all the way down to level 21.
>>59089483>Tyrantrum is shit just like Aurorus is shitThe hell it is. Few are as uniquely shit as aurorus.>Torterra is shit just like Rhyperior is shit?????>Galarian Zapdos is shit just like Kommo-o is shitNigger has lost it.
>>59093284Yeah. Sugimori clearly didn’t care for it, specifically. Across his art for GSC and HGSS it’s the only starter that is never paired up with the protagonist. Its moveset on release was also painfully underdeveloped compared to the other two. I don’t know if anyone at TPC really liked it either, since Typhlosion was absent from the anime for 16 years.
>>59091011When I first saw a fully evolved Cradily on Steven's team I was like holy shit this thing is actually good, how the fuck did he train that thing, then realizing I had a lvl 22 Lileep I just gave up on
>>59091365>Like I said, I don't understand the math, but apparently 10 base power doesn't necessarily translate to half the damage of a 20 base power attack.It's level fuckery, yeah. Even weak multi hit moves like Bullet Seed are favored at very low levels (which is why it's even more disappointing when pokemon learn moves like Fury Swipes at high levels). Bullet Seed is always worth teaching to Treecko. I still think Bullet Seed is weak because it's averaging 30 BP, even with the multihit advantage in mind. Compare it to Mudkip and Torchic which get 40 BP STABs at Level 10. I guess it just doesn't sit right with me that Treecko needs a TM to get close to the power output of the other starters. On the other hand you're rewarded with Leaf Blade before Swampert gets Muddy Water and Blaziken gets Blaze Kick so maybe in a roundabout way this is supposed to demonstrate Grass being the "weak" type but being "easier to raise." I dunno, it just feels like bad game design to be stuck with 20 BP then suddenly shoot up to 70 BP STABs, feels like they needed something inbetween. Not surprising that GameFreak fixed this mistake in ORAS. It also doesn't help that the Treecko line's other levelup moves are varying degrees of dogshit with the baffling choice of making False Swipe its last move. Were you supposed to be a utility pokemon all along? Weird.
True moveset gore is getting Shroomish to a high level for Spore, evolving it, and then transferring it up and realizing your Breloom got its moveset reset and can never get it again.
>>59091409In all fairness, you're only in this stage for 3 levels before you evolve.
>>59083677I kinda liked that, it made for a balancing act that you could get an immediate stat jump earlier than most other mons but it had the cost of gutted moves
>>59095468I miss it.
>>59094130dexit and its consequences have been the single most soulless thing in pokemon history
>>59083835I will never forget when I first got seedot and the bullet seed tm and i thought seedot was hot shit because it was sweeping the fisherman on that one routeThen i found it bullet seed was literally the only grass move it was going to ever learn and it was dogshit after said area
>>59094130Breloom gets it through move reminder now, probably for that reason
>>59095638No it doesn't
>>59095544>Extrasensory was Nuzleaf's signature moveWhat was even the point of theming a Tengu mon after an acorn?
>>59095787probably because tengu use fans, and a good way to pokemon-ify a fan would be to make it out of leaves, thus being the grass typeAnd I figure they just wanted to make it grow from a seed since its more wood based in its bodyalso im certain seedot was a leftover from a cut gen 3 mon so they probaly just linked it from there
>>59083835>if you evolve it into Shiftry it can no longer learn moves without TMs, it has no level-up movesimagine getting mogged by fucking Weedle
>>59089159It's not. It's a stall mon, and a very good one at that. Competitively it's actually the best starter.
>>59093284Between this and the allegations, we are never going to see it again, aren't we?
>>59083668It's a stupid joke about how Psyduck's name in Japanese is the same as Kodak (the camera company), so it evolves into Kodak Gold. It's just sorta confusing in English, though.
Pre-Gen 4 Areodactyl’s learnset is pretty trash. Only 2 STAB moves total.
>>59096373I'd argue the opposite, it's stats and typing were good enough to get away with it. Gen 4 onwards refuses to give it a better Flying type movepool and it's a big victim of Pursuit getting culled. Just give it Brave Bird already
>>59096373even in gen 4 I'm pretty sure it doesn't get rock slide till like level 60
>>59096118>allegations It also confirms that the rape libel was written because that shiguru pedophile (probably the designer of that pika ripoff! ) was angry that typhlosion was popular despite never being shilled. But Masuda having power back then rightfully quashed it. It’s telling that it only got leaked after Masuda left. Basically proves that the leak was an inside job.
>>59096448Most of the time when people talk about a mon's moveset it's all-inclusive so the level it's learned at doesn't really matter
>>5909644865. But has access to the Elemental Fangs, Ancient Power at 25, Crunch at 33, and Iron Head at 49. And Take Down in there too. More than acceptable with no TMs.
>>59096435Or even Dual Wingbeat for its mega to abuse.
>>59095711https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Breloom_(Pok%C3%A9mon)#By_leveling_up>(You)
>>59096435>Gets Rock Head>Doesn't get Head Smash or Brave Bird>Can only use fucking Take Down>Now if it got these moves, it's still powercrept out of existenceGay Freak
