>>59090854
What other abilities are known outside of fera and meganium?
Also honestly not bad considering it has thrash. Will make its outrages even stronger.

>>59090866
>thrash
Literally the worst option, just run double-edge/body slam

>>59090854
Finally: Slash Feraligatr

>>59090854
genuinely terrible ability
liquidation is like 33% weaker on this guy compared to base gatr who doesn't take your mega slot
>b-but dragon stab makes up for being piss dick weak with any other type of move somehow
go (any fairy type)

>>59090990
Liquidation doesn't need to be 33% stronger. Hitting hard with its STAB was never Feraligatr's problem.

>>59090990
You better hope it gets wave crash lmao

>>59090854
Redundancy the post

>>59090990
It's basically an upgraded Mega Charizard X, which has always been one of the best megas.

>>59090990
He isn't pressing Giga Impact if he knows you have a Fairy in your team bro.

I could see Feraligatr's niche being some kind utility sweeper that punishes switches with paralysis from Body Slam and defense drops from Liquidation and Crunch.
Ironically, the opposite of what base Feraligatr does.

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>>59090990
Water/Dragon is great both offensively and defensively and the stone is decently minmaxed
Sure it can't go SFLO, but it can DD twice and instawin

>>59091041
>significantly slower than zard x
>worse offensive typing than zard x
>is actually weaker than zard x despite the attack disparity because tough claws is that much better than dragonate
lol?

>>59091067
>just get 2 ddances off and then it's good
lmao what are you doing to get thise dances? they just go to their fairy type on the first one and threaten an OHKO

>>59091071
It's not weaker than Zard X, the significantly higher base attack makes up for the slightly lower multiplier. In return, it is much bulkier, has much better defensive typing, has no Stealth Rock weakness, and has access to a priority move.

>>59090922
That would be the most thematic move to give it.

>>59091094
>they just go to their fairy type on the first one and threaten an OHKO
Brother, either you're specs and get outsped, or scarf and 2HKO at best

>>59091071
Google is free. You couldn't open two tabs and compare their base attack?

>>59091101
That priority is nice. It allows you to run SD instead of DD. A better option to pick up frailer revenge killers.

>>59091001
its problem was being too slow even after DD, and the mega doesn't give it any more speed to remedy that issue. liquidation being so weak compared to base gatr means it's very hard for it to touch fairies. unaware clefable can switch into any move it has and do 70%+ with moonblast.

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>>59090854
Wow it's fucking useless...

>Entire gimmick is about it's jaw design (surely not a toilet)
>Don't give it strong jaw or a new biting type ability
They could've given it the ability to retreat lock opponents once hit by a biting move. Like drednaws jaw lock move

>>59091134
It's built like a late-game sweeper, not a wallbreaker. Ideally you'd soften up your opponent's team before bringing it in.

>>59091105
>loses to hatt even at +1
>loses to unaware clef
>loses to valiant who outspeeds
>loses to primarina
the only OU fairy type this thing beats is specs enamorus bro

Reminder that in mega format if you're not the top 3 best megas there's no reason to run you
What a dogshit mechanic

>>59091134
Wait, you can switch you Clefable on a 160 base attack Liquidation? For free? Is that what you just said?

>>59091169
Obviously the idea is to weaken opposing Fairy types with your other Pokemon. Or just predict them and hit them with Liquidation on the switch in

>>59091134
>unaware clefable can switch into
>>59091055

>>59091161
there are many better options for late-game sweepers, especially in the mega slot. usually you want something fast for that job, not something that gets outsped by every scarfer in the game. even at +1 it's still slower than dragapult which is a terrible position to be in. there's just too many things people already play that naturally beat gatr for it to be any good.

>>59091169
You're switching out because you're piss scared of eating a Giga Impact, btw.

>>59091181
yes? it only does 40% lol
are you retarded bro? 160 base attack is not a lot when you have no ability boost, no item boost, and a 85bp move

>>59091150
>they could’ve made it even shittier than it is!!!
Glad they didn’t. At least there’s a silver lining somewhere.

>please let me use solar beam the ability
lmfao why do they hate meganium so much?

>>59091227
Weather Ball always being Fire type is s far bigger deal, as well as healing 75% with Synthesis

>>59091215
>Downplaying a retreat lock
It's partly why heatran is so good

Even if they switch to a counter for your magma storm/jaw lock. You have the initiative to switch out, they can't double out predicting you. You know they're stuck in for a turn

>>59090854
>Not hitting hard enough with Body Slam
>Killing yourself with Double Edge
>Confused by Thrash
Jesus, just bring back Return

>>59091227
>and 75% healing from synthesize
>and fire type weather ball
they love meganium, its the clear shillmon of the group.

>>59091246
it's pretty dire. thrash is just outrage which is unacceptable in a post-fairy world, double edge is strong but painful on a setup sweeper that's already weak to scarfers, and body slam is just a wet noodle.

>>59091211
The move can lower your defense.

>B-But what if they have a fairy type
Tentacruel used Sludge Bomb

>>59091286
so you win the matchup 20% of the time. good stuff, that.

>>59091227
It's one of the strongest abilities ever
Meganium now has a free 120 BP Special move or 125 BP physical move with no charge time, permanent 75% heal Synthesis, permanent Fire Weather ball, and you literally can't interact with it. Mega Sol ignores all weather conditions, so setting Rain doesn't matter. All while having a the great Grass/Fairy defensive profile and plenty of coverage moves to hit defensive checks. It's maybe one of the strongest wall breakers in the game

>>59091311
You're the one switching out out of fear, not me. All Pokémon have counters and checks.

>>59091403
and you're the one clicking liquidation into a water resist because you're so terrified of clefable coming in and dunking your gatr. we can do this all day.

>>59091181
It really, really wants Wave Crash in this instance.
>>59091227
>hate
Lmao, this ability is strong as fuck.

>>59091418
I'm clicking on it to kill the thing you're switching out, cuz it's obviously weak to it and I know you have a Clefable in storage.

Also yes, I forgot to remove Sheer Force.

>>59091312
>Mega Sol ignores all weather conditions, so setting Rain doesn't matter
Wow, that’s actually really strong. My first impression was that it would try to set up sun after every attack, but this is way better

>>59091423
It already has a dragon type move similar to that. It doesn't need to be perfect in all fronts.

>>59091444
It’s not 2014 anymore, dude. Power creep’s come a long way, and megas NEED to have power to warrant their use. This isn’t a regular mon, it’s one with additional opportunity cost.

>turn all normal moves into Dragon
>Dragon moves only hit Dragon for super effective meaning you're gaining basically nothing.
Fucking RIP Feraligatr.

>>59091448
exactly. this is also why mega bax is going to be shit, bax already does everything it can do but doesn't take your mega slot.

>>59091454
it's better than nothing but far from great. gatrfags are huffing serious copium when it's basically just a shittier zard x.

>>59091454
dragons strength originally was that almost nothing resisted it while it resisted all of the starter types (which are otherwise good coverage) and had few weaknesses. and it had access to very strong moves to spam reliable neutral damage into everything

now fairy exists, normal type is better for that role. if you want "spammable neutral damage" just put ursaluna on your team

>people already were using a fanfiction meta where it had Dragon's Maw and it was bad
>the ability it has in reality is even worse

>>59091462
Zard x was much weaker.

>>59091462
Is it better than nothing? You have to have a normal type move in your moveset just to have an ability meaning your moveset is realistically Body Slam + 3 moves meaning you've actually lost a spot.

>>59091475
not really. it actually outruns things since its speed isn't ass and it isn't entirely reliant on dragon moves since it has tough claws flare blitz.

>>59091483
It being a Normal move doesn't matter when it'll be a Dragon move when it Megas

>>59091312
Also, you can't freeze it.

>>59091483
the 1.2x boost for converted moves is pretty strong, since dragon moves are mostly shit. without this its options would be 80bp vanilla dragon claw 120bp outrage that means it's dead to any fairy, and rolling the dice on scale shot.
144bp double edge that doesn't lock you is something most dragons would kill for.
the problem is that gatr just doesn't have the statline to spam recoil moves like that.

>>59091495
Yes, press that flare blitz after taking stealth rock damage bro. You're not wearing boots, mind you.

>>59091503
the wording implies the ability only applies offensively, not defensively. itd take non-boosted damage from fire moves, for example

>>59091521
yes, press that liquidation and miss the 2HKO on clefable lmao
you're not sheer force life orb anymore, mind you

>>59091526
No, but at least I'm forcing you to switch out. You're just killing yourself while pressing your strongest move because you have nothing else. Enjoy switching out your Zard without boots.

>>59091529
zard will see use
gatr will not
nothing you say can change this simple fact

>>59090854
>Boomburst Feraligtar

>>59091483
It’s better than Strong Jaw and Dragon’s Maw, but the problem is that its movepool is slightly too small to take full advantage of it and Gamefreak in their infinite fucking wisdom didn’t buff its speed. It’s mediocre for smogon singles and probably completely irrelevant in VGC.

>>59091605
Since Return was removed from the game, the only notable physical moves it doesn't get are shit like Hyper Fang, or other signature moves that don't make sense for it

>>59091746
I’m referring more to not having other high BP attacks. It doesn’t get Wave Crash, for example.

>>59090990
Hear me out:

Liquidation
Facade or Double Edge
Sleep Talk
Rest.

Why use toiletgatr when there are better physical water options?
>Gyarados
>Dracovish
>Faggot duck
>Barraskewda

>why does everyone give a shit now about his ability?
>why does this thread even exist?
>oh right ZA didn't have ability's so this is all new information
god ZA was such a trash game

>>59091888
People are really invested in starters being good

>>59091888
nostalgiafags. totodile starters are the most entitled starterfag fanbase in pokemon history

>>59091888
>Urshifu
>Ogerpon

>>59091888
People need to learn their lesson that Gamefreak is trash at balancing shit and will always be trash

>>59091605
it's not really better than dragon's maw. that would make dragon claw 120bp with no downsides, while as it stands gatr has to choose between the weaker 102bp body slam or 144bp double edge with attached recoil which is awful for it.

>>59091312
Perma 75% synthesis sounds kind of fucked up.

>>59091991
It’s absolutely better than Dragon’s Maw, this thing needs to either squeeze out as much damage as it can or abuse Body Slam and bait for Facade. Outrage is a garbage move.

>>59092003
double edge runs a heavy risk of KOing itself with the recoil, as gatr is a slow setup sweeper who needs to take a hit first and doesn't exactly have an hp stat to write home about. 120bp with no downsides >>> 144bp but kills itself.

I'm honestly more interested in other Pokemon getting this ability

>Flygon could use it on a special set to spam Dragon Boomburst, balanced by Flygon having no special boosting moves, so it can only boost is damage output with items like Specs and Life Orb

>>59090854
>use body slam
>miss the KO
>use double edge
>take 50% hp recoil and kill yourself on alomomola
decisions decisions

>>59092057
Flygonfags will look at any thread ever and think mhh how do I make this about Flygon
That thing is not getting a mega before Bruxish and it's deserved at this point

Why are they making -ate abilities after they got rid of Return?

>>59092136
Flygon was just the example used

>>59092057
The best user of the ability would be kommo-o
He is probably getting banned in aaa right about now
Or it might not matter he already had access to punk rock there

>>59092207
So why not other dragon types...

>>59091888
Totodilefags never got over losing to Cyndaquil.

>>59091888
it's barely even a water type with how pathetic its water stab is, it might as well be a pure dragon
don't compare it to gyarados, compare it to mega mence, chomp z, etc.

>>59092358
Its mogged even harder in that case

>>59092364
wasn't trying to imply otherwise

>>59092358
>"it's barely even a water type with how pathetic its water stab is"
>proceeds to say not to compare it with Gyarados, a mon with an equally bad water stab

>>59092371
at least mega gyarados doesn't have weaker water moves than its base form

>>59092003
>>59092014
I'd rather just click scale shot

>>59092383
dragon's maw scale shot would be pretty funny honestly
luckchad into the 5 hit and it's 187bp and speed boost

>>59092014
This thing has base 85 HP, it’s fine for it take recoil damage if it means walls and bulkier non-resists die in the process. And again, it really wants that extra damage. You retards really overrate Dragon’s Maw when it’s only using it to have a STAB move with mediocre >>59091888
Mega Gyarados is kinda shit tho, it’s carried entirely by its base form’s ability

Bring back Return/Frustration for the love of god please.

Is it growin on ya

>>59092398
>You retards really overrate Dragon’s Maw when it’s only using it to have a STAB move with mediocre coverage*

>>59092398
it's not really killing walls. clefable and dondozo laugh it off, and even at +2 you're still looking a a measly 6% chance to take down alomomola with double edge (and take >50% hp recoil in the process, likely saccing gatr)
DD gatr is heavily outclassed as a sweeper, and SD gatr is basically just crawdaunt if he didn't get stab knock off and also ate your mega.

>>59092398
>You retards really overrate Dragon’s Maw when it’s only using it to have a STAB move
you mean like how dragonize only serves to give it mediocre stab moves?

>>59092398
>it's fine to sacrifice your mega to break a wall
>but dragon's maw making outrage 180bp is bad actually
i don't get it?

>>59092057
>Flygon trannies inserting themselves on a conversation
Go away, nobody cares about your shitmon.

>>59092476
One kills something, the other kills you!
>laughs in Fairy

>>59092510
It was an example, retard

>>59092574
Found betters examples, xir.

>>59092431
Feraligatrbros…

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More leaked abilities from some spanish guy who apparently got to play the Pax demo early. He correctly knew about the ZA starter abilities several days before this new trailer.

>>59092611
Someone wanted Clefable dead.

>>59092611
>No sand ability
>Ability that’s all about doubles
Excadrillbros…

>>59092611
>surge ability
>on a flying type mon
what did they mean by this

>>59092611
>tough claws mega golisopod
dear god...

>>59090990
That’s only if you’re adding Life Orb
252 Atk Sheer Force Feraligatr Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 157-186 (46 - 54.5%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 204-242 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Feraligatr-Mega Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 162-192 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO

And frankly having an ability like this is better overall since Mega Feraligatr was just a glorified Life Orb anyways. If it got Sheer Force, it’d do about as much damage as it would normally, but what’d be the point of running the Mega and not just using another Mega with LO Feraligatr?
With Dragonize, you get use moves like Body Slam, Facade, and Slash (yes Slash as it Dragon Cheer causes it to always crit). And that provides Mega Feraligatr with something to seperate it from its standard form other than Dragon typing.
It’s an overall positive change and Feraligatr will be a serious force in Doubles because it’s a physical Dragon type that has high BP STAB that isn’t Outrage.

>>59092611
Is it Mega Raichu X or Y with Electric Surge or both I wonder, X had this special thing with Volt Tackle where it got a +1 in Attack when it used it.

>>59092611
scovillain's ability would be fucking awesome on any regular mon but having to spend an entire mega for that just seems silly

>>59092658
>physical Dragon type that has high BP STAB
to hit what? dragon is a dogshit offensive typing. at best youre hitting everything for neutral, missing KOs, and praying they dont have a fairy.

>>59092673
Don't forget that Steel resists Dragon so it's not even only fairy that is the concern. Even a basic steel type is walling him.

>>59092611
>Bad Dreams
>Dark Void rework from ZA likely not permanent
It's actually fucking over for us Darkraibros.

>>59092611
Drampa will beat out any other mega weather setter like Charizard Y from having an abysmal 36 speed.

>>59092611
>speed boost on a pokemon with 150 speed
only gamefreak

>>59092658
of course you're holding life orb on a sheer force mon due to the interaction, i don't see how that's relevant
feraligatr would never run any other item ever

>>59092611
>the never ever that is tough claws golisopod
>but you have to use its stupid looking mega
holy monkey's paw

>>59092611
>all the Megas I like getting either shit abilities, shit stats, or both
I hope they give Mega Absol Z Unseen Fist so I can just finally quit playing this game.

>>59092673
-1 252+ Atk Dragonize Feraligatr-Mega Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Incineroar: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Dragonize Feraligatr-Mega Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 349-412 (102.3 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Dragonize Feraligatr-Mega Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 384-453 (95 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Did you forget that Mega Feraligatr has 160 Atk and that Facade when statused has effectively 168 BP.
You have to be really bulky or resist Dragon and Water to survive against Mega Feraligatr.

>>59092682
Punish it with your Dragon attack, Focus Blast, or Hurricane before it can move

>>59092741
how are you getting statused? are you using wisp on your own pokemon? if so, why not just use an actually good mega and decorate it/helping hand/etc?

>>59092741
>spend a turn statusing mega feraligatr
>gets double targeted and dies before you can attack
lol?

>>59092741
>meaningless, contextless calcs
>they’re not even that impressive
Sure feels like Strong Jaw copium again.

>>59092761
Obviously people will Will o Wisp a physical attacker that doesn't have Guts. Or you switch it on a Will o Wisp meant for another Pokemon

>>59092706
Could be a toilet.

>>59092783
nobody'd going to willowisp gatr bro

>>59092761
Any other way you would normally with the exception of Orbs. In singles, you can punish Pokemon using Scald as you’re x4 resistant to Water. And in Doubles, you can use Lava Plume yourself as Feraligatr x4 resists Fire.
Plus you have Double-Edge if you want. You can really run both in Doubles since very few Pokemon resist Dragon and Water at the same. And if there is a Primarina on the field or something, you can just target something else.
Oh and there is also Rest Talk too.

>>59092804
>scald punish in singles
cool until they go into a fairy type after and now your feraligatr is a wet noodle
>doubles
why would you ever use this over mega salamence lmao you're throwing just by putting it on your team at that point

>>59092611
AAAHHH WHERE IS SCOLIPEDE? I NEED TO KNOW IF IT'S SHIT OR NOT

>>59092820
also after the gen 9 scald prune the literal only scalder in ou is alomomola who will just as likely flip turn on you and cause you to lose all momentum

>>59092611
>defiant on mons that will still get hit by intimidate before going mega
booooo

>>59091015
Redundancy the ability
Why not just give it dragons maw? This is worse in every way.

This ability doesn't even align with its design

>>59092868
Nothing aligns with that dogshit design

>>59090866
Emboar gets Mold Breaker, Delphox gets Levitate, and the other two Kalos starters keep their HAs.

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>>59092611
As a Golisopod fan, I think I can safely say that he won.

>>59092988
252+ Atk Tough Claws Golisopod-Mega First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Delphox-Mega: 160-189 (106.6 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>>59091524
>the wording implies the ability only applies offensively, not defensively
you thaw yourself out if you click on a fire move
weather ball becomes a fire move under sun or mega sol

>>59093098
not true, many fire type moves don't thaw. fire punch for example.
weather ball doesn't thaw.

>>59093106
Yup, the only thawing moves are Flame Wheel, Sacred Fire, Flare Blitz, Fusion Flare, Scald, Steam Eruption, Burn Up, Pyro Ball, Scorching Sands, and Matcha Gotcha

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>stuck with pursuit until level 36, or at least 29 if you stick with Eevee
>dark pulse TM is in victory road

>>59093118
wrong thread pal
moveset gore is two pages down

>>59092820
>cool until they go into a fairy type after and now your feraligatr is a wet noodle
As oppose to Sheer Force where your Atk is still halved, but you can’t negate Burn’s Atk halving effect with Facade?
>why would you ever use this over mega salamence lmao you're throwing just by putting it on your team at that point
As opposed to Sheer Force?
If Mega Feraligatr is getting outclassed by Mega Salamence, it’s getting outclassed by it regardless of it has Dragonize or Sheer Force.
Also nigga, by your logic, Mega Salamence should be bad because things resist Flying moves. More types resist Flying than they do Dragon. And also Salamence does way less damage than Life Orb.
Turns out Pokemon is more complex than what you’re making it out to be. Kind of made that clear thinking that most Fairy types want to switch into a STAB Liquidation off a 160 Atk just because it’s a Dragon type.

>>59093128
literally nobody said anything about sheer force
you are arguing with your own schizophrenic delusions

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>>59093120
My bad, forgot I had another tab open.

>>59093083
A bug/steel mon with multiple choices in priority, a better ability than Technician, and water coverage, is going to be crazy.

>>59091872
Do you know facade isnt affected by sleep?

>>59093153
i wouldn't get your hopes up too much, golisopod's viability mainly hinges on whether or not scizor gets roost back. it's pretty outclassed if sciz has recovery.

>>59093169
It works as a sidegrade, due to Fist Impression and the aforementioned water coverage. It also gets Leech Life if you're desperate.

What an interesting thread. Why are all the “people” that doom this ability incapable of doing basic math?

Normal-type moves they could slighty rebrand to give mega gatr more options, listed from least to most funny
>Hyper Fang
>Skull Bash
>Head Charge

>>59092611
>drizzle drampa
I wish Drampa had changed to an electric type

>>59092611
I wouldn't have a problem if all megas were on the tier of power most of these ones are but why would you ever use nearly any of these ones

>>59093506
Would you rather use your mega and an item slot up on:
>Slightly more bulk for niche set up mon
Or
>Literal god of damage

>>59090854
>TM44: Hyper Beam
enjoy you fucks!.

>>59093523
I will enjoy the free turn opponents give me by using that shitty move

>>59093506
You could hope for balance patches. Though I wish the tera leak had given us more info on the mechanical design process, I’d love to know what goes through their minds when designing megas after MegaMence.

>>59093531
Its a funny asspull, no one in competitive would even think anyone would bring that, its a massive wildcard ace OHKO against ANYTHING!

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>main argument is that dondozo and unaware clef wall it
>suggests using mence over gatr
>seems to be unaware that mence does literally less damage than gatr
Do you think anyone on this thread even does the bare minimum research/math? You can literally google a calculator to do this. You can even google stats before pulling assumptions out of your ass with a cursory google search.
Mence only has 145 base attack and gets resisted by a lot of things even with aerilate. Mence also can’t switch in on mega gatr.
Gatr only gets threatened by fairies who also risk by switching into him if he clicks liquidation or aqua tail instead.

>>59093562
Yeah, ace ko into giving your opponent a free setup turn to sweep you again

>>59093562
To further clarify how this would OHKO anything, here's the very simple math.
>Hyper beam Power: 150
>Dragonize makes normal moves into Dragon-type and slaps a free 20% bonus power to it
>Feraligatr is a Water/Dragon, meaning Hyper Beam becomes a STAB move, granting it an extra 50% power
Now I'm not sure if the amplification is additive or multiplicative because I'm the most casual of casual scrubs, but I don't think this is worth completely overlooking, just keep in mind this is an option. besides, with a bit of set-up like Light Screen and Reflect

>>59093612
Why is anyone bringing up hyperbeam over giga impact to begin with?

>>59092658
>That’s only if you’re adding Life Orb
Why would you not give your Sheer Force user a Life Orb? Are you stupid?

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>Dragonite is bound to get it too
>-ate abilities always come in pairs

>Mega dragonite sets up
>Switch in togekiss
>Mega dragonite can't touch you and leaves in shame
Dragonize is gonna be one of the worst abilities lol

>>59093169
>first impression
>leech life
>water coverage
>wide guard
>tough claws > technician
>better hp def and sp.def
>40 speed for trick room
Mega Golisopod has a LOT going for it over Scizor or Mega Scizor.

>>59093726
consequence of giving it an powerful immunity. Remove the immunity

>>59093726
Dragonite would love it

It could forgo Speed investment for HP while it spams the fuck out Dragonize Extreme Speed

Then run Iron Head for Fairies and Fire Punch or Earthquake for Steels.

>>59093793
It drops 10 attack on mega

>>59093793
You trade ghost immunity for fairy which is more common. but also lose the rock resistance. It's really not much of an upgrade for an espeed set
On the special side it doesn't have any normal moves besides hyper beam and razor wind to use it with either, you're better off using draco still. It's an ironic brick of an ability if they gave dragonite it. That's why they'll do it

>>59093793
But Mega Dragonite is a special attacker

>>59093628
He's a self-admitted casual. He lives in a world where Hyper Beam is the strongest and bestest move ever.

>>59093793
>>59093903
This might genuinely be one of those Megas where you don't want to immediately use it the moment you switch in. Or it's a late-game sweeper maybe. Still probably not worth the Mega slot (there's way too many braindead good Megas) but at least there's an idea of what you could do with it.

>>59094018
It makes you way tankier but that's about it.
Losing out on heavy duty boots puts you at 75% switching into rocks so you'll end up squisher than before too in that scenario

And in doubles it doesn't seem great either, it has no good moves there like salamence does with hyper voice (plus intimidate there)
If dragonite really got that as an ability I don't think it would see any actual use outside being a fun gimmick to catch people

yfw the trailer said "here's how to use vp"?

>>59094076
We already knew everything about VP from the last 2 trailers

>>59092706
>>but you have to use its stupid looking mega
it looks basically the same

>>59092684
>Ninjask

>>59092706
I don't understand the hate for the mega, it's basically the same, in fact it's way too similar to the original

>>59094322
Mega designs really went down the drain in ZA.

If GF had come up with Strong Jaw back then, then it could have been the base form ability and then Sheer Force as the Mega ability.

But since they came up with Sheer Force first, they had to give the Mega something to set it apart

Mega gatr will be good just spamming body slam for para.

>>59092741
>incin
youre a fucking water type
>shifu
shifus frail as fuck
>rilla
sure, but all of these are facade, and >>59092783
if youre running facade just for the minority of games where someone statuses you then youre not running a move thats better 90% of the time

>>59093726
the existence of fairy just negates the entire design philosophy behind dragon

>>59094075
I mean, a single target 156BP dragon type move with STAB is not a bad thing in doubles. Close Combat, Flare Blitz, Wave Crash and Wood Hammer are all very viable and common in VGC, this is the dragon type equivalent with the free 30% boost on top before STAB. With a 160 base attack, that's absolutely ugly.

Think about it this way: Double Edge from Mega Toilet Seat hits harder (on the physical side) than Draco Meteor from Mega Fug. How many Mega Fug Dracos do you want to eat? And it has 100% accuracy, and it doesn't lead to stat drops (so even though it deals recoil damage, it can be clicked repeatedly).

>>59092611
>Darkrai still has bad dreams
It's over, isn't it?

>>59094490
Fairy is an unbalanced dishonest typing and should either have another resistance or another weakness.
>2 weaknesses, both uncommon so only run to specifically hit fairys
>3 very relevant resistances, one extremely relevant immunity
>strong against 2 extremely prominent types and 1 decent type
>access to a 95 power 100 accuracy move with a very strong upside when everyone else gets 90 or 80
Basically every mon with a fairy typing is viable.

>>59094506
It was never getting Compound Eyes. I don't know why GameFreak decided to "balance" a pokemon that has never been and will never be legal in competitive or available in a regular playthrough, but you will take your Dark Void nerf and you will like it.

>>59094507
Fairy was designed in part to make steel and poison more offensively viable and fire more defensively viable and it 100% did that. The only thing I'd say would be to make ghost resist fairy and hit it for SE, mostly because it helps differentiate ghost and dark which are so painfully similar, but the problem is Ghost is already an extremely prominent typing at the moment and you aren't doing the balance any favors by overtuning the second-best type in the game to fix the best type in the game. It just makes them swap places and Ghost becomes the undisputed king.

>>59094328
This

>>59094517
It certainly did try to do that, and succeeded to an extent, but it turns out when a type is strong against good offensive typings and weak against bad offensive typings, it makes that type really fucking good. Like you said, ghost is already the 2nd best type in the game, so I'd probably make grass resist fairy as something that makes thematic sense for a lower tier type.

>>59094628
Grass isn't a low-tier type. Grass is an extremely good defensive type. And actually, the REASON grass is an extremely good defensive type is the same thing that's needed to help further balance the type chart overall (though not with fairy), which is innate type properties. Grass's matchups aren't great but immunity to spore and rage powder is a huge deal. I think more types could be buffed in that way rather than trying to change effectiveness relationships in a lot of cases.

IMO the most thematic thing to fix this would be to have normal resist fairy. Normal needs a bit of love, and lately dual-normal typing has become a lot more common than it once was, and the number of viable normal types has increased quite a lot. I'd like to see normal resist fairy, and maybe even hit it for super effective damage, though I think thematically there's reasons why normal as a typing is not supposed to hit anything for super effective damage

>>59094075
Mence doesn’t just use hyper voice he also learns dedge and hyper voice isn’t necessarily better than dedge even for doubles.
I think the funny thing here is that people are tunnel visioning on mence when he has less attack than gatr.
Slash is basically a stronger return if you dragon cheer gatr btw, so you have a better standard no drawback option attack that goes through defense setup while also having the option to do a tanky body slam set.
An unaware clef needs max hp/def investment to barely tank liquidation from gatr and SD gatr aqua jet is basically like getting hit with liquidation

>>59094082
The point is missed on you.

>>59094650
>Mega Mence
>Mega Gator
Idgi everyone is going to use Megagross

>>59091454
>Get 20% boost on a shitton of heavy hitting normal moves
>Actually get SE on SOMETHING unlike normal which gets nothing
>Only Fairy nulls it and Steel resists it, Normal gets nulled by Ghost and resisted by Rock and Steel so its better there too
Objective upgrade

>>59090854
Would strong jaw have been good for Mega Feraligatr? I dunno modern Pokémon meta.

>>59094686
>>Get 20% boost on a shitton of heavy hitting normal moves
Plus STAB too and thats on top of 160 base attack.

>>59094686
I mean the biggest thing is it goes from
>120BP move
to
>156BP move + STAB
that's a huge difference even without considering whether normal is a better offensive type than dragon. Which they're actually pretty well-tied, Dragon's single SE hit is useful but the big for both is
>extremely good neutral coverage, steel resists but it resists like everything
>one very common typing has immunity (fairy or ghost, depending).

The type conversion is a wash, it's the almost doubling of the move's power (1.3x and then 1.5x). People are talking about Liquidation but Gatr ran Liquidation because it was the hardest-hitting physical attack it got. It got sheer force + STAB, which again is 1.3x and 1.5x... with Draconize in Mega Form, it gets that same multiplicative buff on Double Edge. Its attack stat goes from 105 to 160 AND its strongest STAB+30% boosted physical attack goes from 85BP to 120BP.

Sooner or later people will remember gatr also has aqua jet and swords dance

>>59094648
Grass isn't complete ass but it's definitely not top tier, which is the kind of type you'd want to resist fairy to knock it down a peg, and it would further define grasses role as a good defensive utility type. Normal type is complete ass, so while making it resist fairy would make it better, I don't know how much difference it would make when nobody uses normals outside of ursaluna and blissey.
>>59094706
-Ate abilties are 1.2 not 1.3. They nerfed them after gen 6.

>>59094684
Im going to just keep using Mega Mence

>>59094705
Damn crazy it’s almost as strong as an Azumarill holding a life orb and only for your mega slot

>>59094733
>Grass isn't complete ass but it's definitely not top tier
Rillaboom continues to exist for a reason and it's not because Wood Hammer is OP.

>Normal type is complete ass, so while making it resist fairy would make it better, I don't know how much difference it would make when nobody uses normals outside of ursaluna and blissey
Farigiraf, Indeedee F, Porygon2, the OTHER Ursaluna, hell even Tera Normal Dragonite. Actually Blissey isn't even making top 100. Maushold is beating Blissey and it only exists to beat up Annihilape.

>>59094737
>252+ Atk Dragonize Feraligatr-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 301-355 (88.2 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
>252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 231-274 (67.7 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Gatr's problem is that of many megas- aside from a couple of situations, Life Orb base form is better.

>>59093726
Dragonite will get a fairy version.

>>59093573
They forgot that Mega Gengar will be in the game to threaten fairies.

>>59094751
How the fuck are you doing these calcs? Azumarill's got 50 base Atk, even after huge power and life orb that's functionally 130 base attack, megatr has 160 base attack BEFORE the 20% from dragonize, and it's running a 120BP STAB move versus Azumarill running a 90BP STAB move.

I feel like you're just making shit up.

>>59094765
>>59094751
I'm sorry, I was born retarded and time did not help matters. I read the Azumarill calc as guaranteed OHKO not guaranteed 2HKO.

>>59094770
That's okay, I forgive you.
Huge Power doesn't double the base stat, it doubles the final stat. So 252 Adamant at level 100 is roughly equal to 149 base attack. It also doesn't have nearly as powerful STAB.

>>59094765
FYI Huge Power boosts the flat bonus from EVs and the %boost from nature as well, Adamant Azumarill has equivalent of 150 attack before items and shit it’s a common misunderstanding

>>59094785
Ah. That's STILL less than Megatr though, and using a substantially weaker attack. Like Megatr is gonna get powercrept by the fact that its speed is 78, which is in the shittiest possible band of non-broken speeds (too slow to be reliable in tailwind, too fast to be reliable in trick room) and that it costs a mega slot which means you don't get to use Megagross or Megakhan.

But not by its power. 160 base attack with an ability that gives you a 20% boost to STAB 120BP moves without stat recoil is a hard fucking hitter. Megatr Double Edge hits harder than Mega Rayquaza Outrage. It hits harder than Zacian-C Behemoth blade.

>>59094813
It has Agility and the bulk to set up at least once, but that 160 attack is still worse than SF/LO regular Gatr.

>>59094823
>that 160 attack is still worse than SF/LO regular Gatr.
It's not though, not even close
85BP * 1.3x SF * 1.5x STAB * 1.3x LO = 215 functional BP
215BP * 105 Atk = 22575 raw power

120BP * 1.2x Dragonize * 1.5x STAB = 216 functional BP
216BP * 160 Atk = 34560 raw power

There's recoil of course, which SF/LO negates handily but Double Edge exacerbates. And your coverage options are slightly worse when relying on dragon since you lose your most impactful water STABs. But the power differential for max dick-swinging physical attack is huge, it's basically just 50% more oomph.

The real factor is the opportunity cost. Megatr costs you your mega. On the other hand, it frees up your Life Orb, which is a universally desired item and you probably have several mons who are much happier to have it than Gatr was.

>>59094853
Mega Gatr is only stronger with its dragon moves. Everything else is weaker. Dragon isn't as spammable as it once was, either.

>>59094754
Why would a Dragon/Flying type need Fairy type moves?

>>59094861
>Mega Gatr is only stronger with its dragon moves
Yeah that's the big drawback, it becomes far stronger if you're prepared to lean into dragon output but it loses potency in its water offense. I wouldn't say "everything else" is weaker though, yes it's true that SF/LO's total multiplier to damage is higher than the increase to its base attack but that also assumes you're using SF-boosted moves. Right now you are, but that's only because you choose to run Crunch and Ice Fang and shit BECAUSE of Sheer Force. Sheer Force isn't helping you with Aqua Jet, Earthquake, Scale Shot, etc.

I could (playing pure theorymon) see Megatr with Swords Dance / Scale Shot / Aqua Jet / Double Edge being nasty, Sheer Force helps with none of that.

>>59091872
>resttalk
it's so over...

>>59094864
GET FUCKED
MEGA DNITE GOT MULTISCALE
GET FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKED

>>59094744
Listen man, I don't pay attention to doubles, but even I know those guys only exist to either set up trick room and die or setup psychic terrain and die. You are not using them for their matchup profile. Tera normal dragonite is similarly an espeed bot and you have to spend your tera on it. The only normal mon you're using on the basis of it being good is ursaluna.

>>59094904
>but even I know those guys only exist to either set up trick room and die or setup psychic terrain and die
Indeedee "exists to die" because it has Follow Me, its job is to sponge damage while keeping your partner safe. It's meant to get its ass pummeled, but it isn't a sacrificial mon, like Amoonguss it wants to be alive as long as possible so your sweeper can sweep. Giving it a resist to the most prominent offensive type in the game (via normal resisting fairy) would be enormous.

Also Farigiraf does not exist to die, it sets up trick room but it exists to live because of Armor Tail which negates priority, it needs to be alive to do that. Most Farigs run Helping Hand as a support move and Foul Play to do damage without attack investment, though for a while Throat Spray Hyper Voice was also pretty common as an offensive set.

You're correct about Tera Normal Dnite though.

>sniff
>Mega D-d-dragonite will get this ability surely!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAaAAAAHHHH IT SUCKS

>>59094966
Honestly I don't mind, Dragonize Dragonite would have been broken as balls and Multiscale is hardly an ability you want to lose anyway.

>>59094972
Don't talk to me, Barneyfag. You've been harassing me since yesterday and now your disgusting barneyfag pokémon is confirmed to be shit. you don't get to be here in this thread.

>>59094966
>>59094980
Schizo moment

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>>59094823
>252 Atk Aerilate Feraligatr-Mega Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 112+ Def Hippowdon: 196-232 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 16.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

>252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 112+ Def Hippowdon: 190-224 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The damage is comparable. LO Gatr only excels at SE stab on regular SE it breaks even with Dragonize which is quite literally just ice punch, crunch, and rock slide. If he had kept sheer force the only moves that he couldve used it with were breaking swipe or dragon rush and the latter is if they give it to him.
In my eyes its an upgrade as it opens up several more build options for gatr by making him into a neutral stab nuke. They are about even on EQ which means mega gatr is better with it thanks to bulk.
These calculations aren’t hard to do, its common sense once you realize the attack boost he gets is on par with LO boost. The best thing about mega gatr is the extra bulk as it gives him options to setup with agility, SD and DD. He also has options with all 3, such as aqua jet and a lot of synergy with doubles support. Without your fairy or a ferrothorn he becomes hard to wall and even then he can still choose to run EQ.
He’s actually good on both formats, I wouldn’t call it broken but definitely on par with the “””broken””” stuff once you realize what he needs to sweep. You can even run him as a bulky attacker with body slam.

>>59094861
>Everything else is weaker.
Only water actually. His coverage options are at best on par or weaker with his dragon stab.

>>59095065
That and the fact that I like my Body Slam with a 30% paralysis chance.

>>59094939
You didn’t even prove him wrong just corrected one minor detail of his post. What exactly was the point?

>>59092611
Isn't snowscape a move? And how can you confuse Defiant with Contrary?

>>59092681
>85 speed
It never even began mate

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>>59094853
This guy knows what hes talking about. LO Gatr was literally his best and only set with the only variations being crunch vs rock slide but he was mediocre at best compared to other OU option. Mega Gatr
Basically gives up high damage water nukes for roughly equivalent damage or more on any coverage move he could have used at base.
Saying Dragonize damage on Mega gatr is bad is like saying aerilite damage on mence is bad or aerilite damage on something like Dragonite is bad or liquid voice hyper voice is bad, or pixilate hyper voice on mega gardevoir is bad. Mega gatr is doing more damage than all of these except the non-megas with a LO with either double edge or slash.

>>59092611
Fake leak, we know already Clefable is getting delta storm

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>>59091134
>Go Clefable!
>Feraligatre used Flip Turn

>>59095092
No, he was saying typing was ancillary to those mons because he was treating them as suicide leads. Like a mon that sets spikes until it inevitably gets ko’d, its type matchup is irrelevant, you don’t care what it’s weak to, it does its job on the first turn and then it dies for a clean switch in

I’m pointing out how that isn’t true for those mons. Their role involves survivability and/or consistent damage with few resists. Fairy is overrepresented among offensive types, if prominent bulky types like Ursaluna and Indeedee F are running around with a Fairy RESIST it’s going to matter. Hell, right now the presence of so many bulky normal types is what stops everything with access to shadow ball from farting its way through every switch-in without looking at the screen. The survivability of normal types has a huge impact on the meta’s balance.

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>>59091134
Unaware clefable needs max def/hp + nature investment to tank liquidation from a jolly mega gatr. Even if we assume thats exactly what it would run because of calm mind or whatever, what makes you think that any smart opponent wont just switch out?
If we’re arguing with unaware dondozo instead then any fucking sweeper other than grass types or electric types suck.

>>59092611
Clefable getting an ability it cannot benefit from in any way is amazing.
You're legitimately helping your opponent more by mega evolving your Clefable.

>>59095149
I mean, are you really surprised GF doesn't know how their own game works after Delphox getting lelvitate?

>>59092611
Where's Scolipede bro?

>>59095156
Levitate on Mega Delphox is fine, it's got good raw stats and it's better than it's base abilities.
A surge ability on a flying type is some next level shittiness. It's even worse than Rotom Fan, it's that bad.

>>59095156
>>59095149
The fact that it happened twice is so bizarre I almost wonder if they’re changing how terrain works to no longer bother with grounded considerations

>>59090854
where are the new mega abilities coming from and where can I see them all?

>>59095174
From leaks. People are already playing Pokémon Champions.

>>59095168
I wish. It's so dumb that this magical realm you summon all around you needs permanent physical contact. Especially the Psychic one whose whole identity is telepathy/telekinesis.

just give feraligatr wave crash goddamn

>>59092632
I wonder if it means they'd allow flying mons to use it
>Mega delphox will be able to spam expanding force after all

>>59095216
Flip Turn is better.
>DD
>Did opponent switch to Fairy?
>do damage and gtfo

>>59094885
I'd run Ice Punch anyway on Gatr.
I also would never run Scale Shot without Loaded Dice, it's way too inconsistent. It's bad enough the move can miss.

>>59094972
Dragonize wouldn't be that good on Dragonite. Aerilate would be way better. Or a mirror to Meganium's signature move that assumes the user is under rain.
It's a special attacker, it's not going to be making use of Extremespeed as well, and Hyper Voice is a sidegrade to Draco Meteor.

>>59095289
>ice punch
So you’d run ice coverage on mega gatr just to do less damage than slash?
252 Atk Feraligatr-Mega Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 112+ Def Hippowdon: 136-162 (32.4 - 38.6%) -- 3.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

>252 Atk Aerilate Feraligatr-Mega Slash vs. 248 HP / 112+ Def Hippowdon on a critical hit: 172-204 (41 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

>>59095317
Why would I hit Hippo with Ice Punch when I have Liquidation? Are you okay, anon?

Flip Turn>Coverage moves
imo

>>59095333
Would be nice if it got Iron Tail to try and chunk fairies on the switch. Or even Iron Head.

All this cope just makes it sound like gatr is a worse version of mega swampert..

>>59095348
>oddish used abador!

>>59095348
It kind of is.

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>>59095332
I think you might be retarded because thats not the point I was trying to demonstrate.
Using SE coverage is less effective than simply using dragon stab for everything he gets for coverage except EQ in which case it depends on whether you’re running slash or double edge.
I am Honestly surprised and disappointed that I even had to explain something that you can understand with basic common sense

>>59095178
>official news and videos from approved early players using b roll footage provided to them by pokemon is leaks now
>>59095348
i think they serve different functions
swampert is a rain mon while feraligatr is a bit more generic
it has some handy tech options like body slam to spread paralysis, double-edge for raw damage without having to rely on outrage and facade to sneak around burns or other status
it's not a top of the line mega but really what is other than gengar and salamence

Hate how they flew out all these Poketubers just to show 2 new Mega abilities and B roll footage, hiding the new abilities is dumb.

>>59095339
It surprised me that this guy doesn't learn Iron Tail.

>>59095386
Absol and Lucario Z sound like they're going to be monsters. Provided their stats remain the same.

>>59095395
I just checked Bulbapedia quickly before posting that. It used to in previous gens, but the TM was cut in SV and its compatibility was taken away in ZA.

Incineroar apparently lost Knock Off and other moveset changes according to WolfeDick
https://youtu.be/ezv1TyAodrs?si=V6hqxq1W6N7Hh8Q5

>>59092988
Golisopod and meganium are the biggest winners for me.
Starmie, excadrill and Scolipede seem interesting.

Baxcalibur is just more Baxcalibur, you can't go wrong with Baxcalibur+.

>>59095386
>facade to sneak around burns or other status
this is the most obnoxious cope i keep seeing itt. youre never giving up one of your 4 precious move slots for facade when youre not reliably statusing yourself. a move thats 70bp most of the time is fucking dogshit and not worth running just for the 10% of games where you get statused

>>59095414
>Starmie
I personally don't like megahogs. Much less when the hog part comes from lol one is special and the other is physical :^]

>>59095423
You can status youself in doubles. In singles everyone runs burn so i guess it depends on playstyle

>>59095428
>You can status youself in doubles
sure, but side burn feels terrible for the relatively minor reward. youre not guts, so its gimping you for every other attack, and youre committing a turn on your second mon to get it off. if you want a facade spammer just run ursaluna. if you want to run gatr, just do double edge

>>59095424
Starmie is going to be interesting because it didn't lose any offensive power like with the other megas that switch the main attacking stat. It can reliably run a mixed set due to this.

>>59095435
Facade is stronger than double edge so i don’t really see whats wrong with using side burn to flip the switch on his most powerful option.
I’d run slash with setup and side cheer either way so I dont have much stock on this argument

>>59095437
Assuming the ability is Huge/Pure Power as everyone and granny takes for granted, you are basically missing on (140+Ability+EV+IV) BST on every click by using anything special. That's more than enough to deal more damage to basically any pokemon no matter how lopsided their DEF/SPD stats are.
It's not worth it.

>>59095460
140+Nature+EV+IV, sorry.

>>59095460
People assume it's Huge Power I personally expect it to be Star Power because it has a 140 BST boost compared to its base form. The only other megas to get that in ZA are Medicham and Mawile. It's not going to be 140 attack, it will be 100 with Huge Power.

>>59095414
Meganium is way too slow to be the nuke you want her to be.

>>59095457
You're spending a turn not attacking your opponent. That's dangerous in doubles.

>>59095457
Nobody is going to waste a turn doing that to their own teammate. Facade is there to catch your opponent off guard

>>59095476
Meganium will be an excellent tank with its ability to heal 2/3 of its HP each turn.

>>59095460
Starmie doesn't even have any significant physical moves to bother with a physical set.
You get a stronger Aqua Jet and Flip Turn but you lose coverage like Thunderbolt.

>>59095472
Oh right. I still believe the point stands. Not 'tistic enough to go to the calculator but I imagine you need to be Blissey-tier on the Physical side for a similar BST attack to deal more damage from the special side than brute forcing the physical and no such pokemon exist.

>>59095489
It gets Triple Axel, Liquidation, and Zen Headbutt, along with the two moves you mentioned. It could still slot in Hydro Pump or Thunderbolt if need be.

>>59095488
Have fun running away from sludge bomb users.

>>59095489
It will get the elemental punches it's like the most obvious toku sentai shit ever.

>>59095510
>pokemon have weaknesses
Wow. I guess Heatran was never good because Earthquake exists.

>>59095510
>sludge bomb users.
Such as?

>>59095479
>>59095484
>coaching is bad
>helping hand is bad
>dragon cheer is bad
>protect is bad
>literally setting up anything is bad
Sure anon whatever you say

>>59095518
Landoruses

>>59095515
Not all of them have quad weaknesses, tho

We're all just extrapolating opinions in here. No one is mad or being dumb for real. We're extracting more opinions from each others, that is all.

>>59095539
So? Pokemon can still be good, even slow Pokemon, with a quad weakness.

The thing about these Life Orb reliant pre mega Pokemon is that is often hard to justify the whole mega slot when LO SF just does better damage.

Ice Punch is probably good enough, yet again. If only mega gators speed was boosted when it megad.

Emboar is okay ish, as well. At least it cant be stopped by Unaware.

Meganium is where the real intrigue lies.

>>59095596
Yeah but, this one's a mega... no one is going to be double guessing about its speed or defensive amps because it can't hold items.

>>59095602
>ice punch
I love it when midwits try to give an opinion they always make a clown out of themselves

>>59095605
I sometimes wonder if adding a move that allows mons to mega without needing a megastone but allows held items would be worth using. One moveslot and one turn sacrifice for a held item.

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>>59095602
Why would you use ice punch???

>>59095637
Why wouldn't you?

>>59095640
On mega gatr? Because its literally less damage than any of the normal moves you can run on him? I guess its somewhat stronger than body slam on SE. But still why would you??

>>59095654
Oh, right. Yeah, for the mega you just wouldn't bother.
Mega Gatr is only useful for spamming Dragon moves. The rest of its set will just be SD, Aqua Jet, and some filler move in the final slot.

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>>59090854
>Larp as a totodile
>Get a dragon ability instead
>That makes sense because ??
This seems poorly thought out concept wise. I get strong jaw would be worse than sheer force but still this isn't much better

>>59095661
>spamming Dragon moves
And that's a terrible niche.

>>59095663
I hate this Mega Evolution so much its unreal

>>59095663
Aside from Tough Claws, there isn't anything he could have gotten that would have been worthwhile. It has a very specific niche now, but it's a niche nevertheless. Strong Jaw would have just been a meme.

>>59095663
>>59095672
Maybe you shouldnt try to give an opinion if all you care about is the concept. It will just make you look like an idiot.

>>59095681
IDGAF about the concept. Spaming dragon moves hasn't been good strategy for 13 years. Even spaming Psychic moves is a better strategy and it also has a common as fuck immunity.

>>59095679
I mean they could've made a new ability like meganium got. Dragonize sure is new it just doesn't fit. Not only doesn't it fit concept wise, it just has no good moves to make use it of it.
Even something as simple as biting moves having guarantee crits would've worked. It's different enough from strong jaw and is still in theme

>>59095187
I mean they've done several weather retcons, it's not outside of the realm of possibility, especially with terrain being much more common than it used to be.

>>59095602
>The thing about these Life Orb reliant pre mega Pokemon is that is often hard to justify the whole mega slot when LO SF just does better damage.
It gives you away around the item clause.

>>59095688
Spamming Dragon moves hasn't been good largely because your only high-damage options were Draco Meteor(not spammable) and Outrage(easy to punish). Having a move with power that sits in between those two and doesn't have nearly as harsh a downside is great. It does a shitload of damage after STAB and the ability boost, and does so on its own without any prior setup or support. You just have to take care of fairies in the same way you would dark types in a psyspam team.
>>59095695
>Dragonize sure is new it just doesn't fit.
Why not? It gets an ability to support its new secondary type, like Pinsir got.

>>59095695
sori anon garantiido criticaru hitto isu for shirrmon onri prease andasutando

I'm going to run Body Slam. Have "fun" preventing me from spamming this move after one DD.
>o-oh I'll just use my fairy
Get +1 Flip Turned, I ain't staying on that shit.

>>59095688
Well thanks for proving my point I guess

>>59095695
>it just has no good moves to make use it of it.
Really now?
>Slash becomes return with dragon cheer support and no way to stop with def setup
>double edge
>giga impact
>body slam
>facade
>thrash
So basically we have…
>better dragon claw thats also a guaranteed crit
>draco meteor with recoil
>better draco meteor with charge drawback
>better draco meteor if you’re burned
>better outrage
>dragon claw with 30% para chance
What exactly is a good move? I’m afraid to ask since it sounds like logic tells you that there are no good moves to use with skin abilities…?

>>59095714
He is fucking stupid thats why

>>59091118
Retard
>252+ Atk Feraligatr-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 168-198 (49.2 - 58%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
>252+ Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 280-330 (82.1 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>>59095750
>it's a better [good move] IF [unreliable condition]!
Yeah good luck fulfilling that "IF" consistently without making your whole team worse than using the ol' reliables.
>it's a better [shit move]!
>it's [good move] with recoil!
lmao

>>59095774
Recoil is a better drawback to have than being locked in for 2-3 turns and becoming confused afterward.

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>>59095773
Hmm thats weird my calculator tells a different story
252 Atk Aerilate Feraligatr-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 274-324 (80.3 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Aerilate Feraligatr-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 301-355 (88.2 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

So what will your cope be now? You gonna tell everyone how you royally fucked up? Or maybe you’re gonna tell anyone how you can’t even do basic math?

>>59095773
>252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 255-301 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>252 Atk Aerilate Feraligatr-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 274-324 (80.3 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You do realize that the ability isn’t there right?

>>59095773
You forgot to factor in STAB and the 20% power boost, fucking dumbass.
>252+ Atk Feraligatr-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 301-355 (88.2 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

>>59095781
Or just dont use a dragon move lol? There's a reason why most dragon type pokemon rarely use dragon moves. It's just not worth it over using moves with actual coverage
Forcing yourself to use shit moves just because the ability is just cope. Sharpedo often prefers earthquake as opposed to another crunching move for strong jaw. Hitting 2x is far more important than strong neutral hits.

>>59095795
>Adding Aerilate out of nowhere
Gatrannies really are fucking dishonest as fuck
>Or maybe you’re gonna tell anyone how you can’t even do basic math?
What "math" did you do retard? The calculator already exists and you didn't implement it. Do you think choosing a pokemon and move from a dropdown list is "doing math"? Gatrannies are fucking retarded as fuck

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>>59095774
>can only knock out 3 with his bad faith non-argument
I feel sorry for you anon, you tried so hard to gaslight before the thread died.

>>59095800
It's not the same damage as Aerilate, it's the same as Galvanize. So only 1.2x instead of 1.3.

>>59095781
Depends on the stage of the game. I would much rather have Outrage than DragoEdge as a late game DD sweeper.

>>59095804
You did your math wrong dumbass, hou're making us look bad, the proper calcs are here:
>>59095795
>>59095800

>>59095807
Are you stupid? Or just pretending to be to save face? You can literally see he doesn’t have his ability in your calc.
I refuse to explain something so basic to someone this idiotic. Look at the calculator yourself and realize how retarded you are.

>>59095810
It's too slow to be a sweeper, it'll just be a wallbreaker. Even at +1 speed, lots of scarfers will outpace you.

>>59095814
>posts calcs without STAB
are you retarded?

>>59095808
It covers everything. Shit move = Dragon Claw. Good Move = Outrage.
Better Dragon Claw (lol) if I manage to pull out a support move! is the same as Better Dragon Claw with 30% parachance (whatever that means since Thrash is literally bad Normal outrage)

>>59095809
Aerilate is 20% as are all skin abilities. You’re stuck in gen 6.
Even if you were right the clown he is replying to is calculating the damage with mega gatr having torrent

>>59095827
I was confusing it with the terrains' boosts.

>>59095810
>Gatrannies being this dishonest
This anon has the right idea >>59095809
These are the correct calcs:
>252+ Atk Galvanize Feraligatr-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 201-237 (58.9 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So still marginally inferior to:
>252+ Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 280-330 (82.1 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>>59095840
You’re still posting calcs without STAB, you absolute dumbfuck.

>>59095822
The calcs I did here
>>59095795

are with gatr as a water/flying. Why else would I use aerilate as the substitute? Go to the fucking calculator and do it yourself

>>59095840
This is such an obvious gaslight and you’re STILL not calculating STAB and you still think aerilate is 30%.
I recommend suicide at this point

>>59095800
Ah fuck, I didn't notice it still had torrent. I just assumed since feraligatr-mega was already on the calculator that it already had its ability and everything.

>>59095840
>Galvanize
That's missing STAB. Or does the calc add it automagically for the skin abilities?

>>59095848
>>59095850
>STAB STAB REEEEEE
Stab yourself in the eye fucking gatranny, not my fault your shitty toiletmon is weak

>this retard thinks tough claws having a 10% higher buff is a bigger boost than feraligatr having 30 extra base attack
I’ve truly seen it all from campaignshitters.

>>59095856
It doesn’t.

>>59095860
Bro calm down just change the mon type to electric, I'm pretty sure the calc allows that.

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>>59095850
You still fucked up your calc, retard.

>>59095875
Maybe try reading the post again

>>59095795
Theres two calcs. One with neutral nature and one with adamant. You faggots make yourself look like idiots