>does nothing>wins
>>59095987>The "does nothing" suspect test has concluded.>Having reached the necessary 26/42 votes for a ban (60%+), "does nothing" is now banned from SV OU.
>>59096013>meme format
>>59095987>gets shut down in 2 weeks
>>59095987The more I see of Champions......yeah
>>59096016Versus what, playing the official format on the fangame ladder with all 2,000 other people there?
>>59096016>vgcels can't play a format if GFdaddy doesn't approveSad!
>>59096109Smogon’s formats fucking suck though. Imagine banning Terastallization. Like imagine actually doing that. Imagine banning the most interesting gameplay mechanic in franchise history because it upsets a metagame you’ve refused to allow to change since 2011
>>59096265>anti-omgon retard doesn't even know tera is legal because he has never and will never actually play itlol
>>59096265>t.
>>59096265Tera isn't banned in the main Smogon formats
>>59096013Can't wait for people like this to start crying in a year after tera xerneas wipes them for the 23rd time in a row because they predicted the tera type wrong
>>59096265Is this a pasta with dynamax replaced with tera
>>59096265why would go and just say something so easy to prove wrong?
You realize Nintendo is going to kill showdown next right
>>59096390They're still deluding themselves into believing we're in a reality where Smowdown will somehow be left unmolested by the rights holders post-Champions launch.
>>59096390They can't. Simulators are completely legal under US law, and the worst Game Freak could do is force Showdown to stop using their intellectual property. All that means is that Smogon just has to rename and resprite everything to be legally distinct, and then someone else creates a mod that reverts it back to normal. Neither the mod nor the simulator would be illegal, it would just create a slight barrier to entry for people who don't want to play with April Fools Day sprites on 24/7.
>>59096390They don't even take down the pokemon mmos which are actively making a profit off the game. Why would showdown which has no paying aspects get hit
>>59096390Why are you bootlicking a corporation?
>>59096013Maybe Does Nothing was overpowered? Ever thought about that?
>>59096401The mod would be a copyright violation, as it would be using the IP to replace the fake sprites.
Have Smogtards banned Sneaky Pebbles yet?
>>59096434Retard, rocks ARE the metagame!
>>59096433And people can just keep rehosting it.
>>59096433The mod would not be a copyright violation any more than Bulbapedia, Serebii, or Google Images are violating Game Freak's copyright.
>>59096434Covert Stones haven't been OP since Gen 6 buffed Defog.
>>59096434Nigga there's an entire item (a really good one) that makes you immune to them. It's not like Moltres or CHARIZAAAARD have a better item to be using than the cutie booties.
>>59095987Based. Fuck Game Freak.
>>59096471No cunt will when Nintendo drag the current set into court for historic and pervasive copyright infringement and enrichment (pay our server costs and TCG habit as we get more then enough to host our shitty stuff and then some because of dumbfuck whales that just want to feel good about being pogeymans battle 'tistics!)
>>59096652Anon, all the sprites are on Bulbapedia and Serebii. Unless Game Freak C&D'd both of them, it would be exceptionally easy for someone to recreate it.
DUDE I FUCKING LOVE ANIMATED PNGS HUMPING EACH OTHER INSTEAD OF ACTUAL ANIMATIONS
>>59096390Oh boy, I can’t wait for paypiggies to defend this shit.
They don't even NEED to kill Showdown through DMCA, it'll kill itself when everyone decides to start playing on the objectively worse Champions solely because "it's official".It happened to Yu-Gi-Oh, it WILL happen to Pokemon.
>>59096663Willing to get both of those or all three have some sort of licensing agreement. I know joe does actual collabs like streaming on their account on twitch with tpc and I bet bulbapedia has some not for profit use only agreement
>>59095987>looks like shit>just a chatroom for troons to groom kidsoh yeah so cool
>>59096737Nice Epstein projection. Republicans rape kids regularly btw. It's sad you do unpaid work for them
>>59096743No one said anything about political sides. ALL elites are kiddiefuckers, no exceptions. It's the gateway "welcome to the club" handshake of the upper class no matter what your beliefs are, what part of the world you're in, anything like that.
>>59096743smogon mods covered up the pedo grooming kids lol>>59096748This
>>59096698Yes? The actual animations take too much time. I'm here to play a game, not watch a 40 second cutscene after every turn.
>>59096715I don't see Showdown taking a hit with how tedious Champions will be unless you paypig. It still existed despite official games having online play.The YGO comparison isn't even accurate because the only option you had for that was a site that had literally no inbuilt rules and worked on the honor system.
>>59096832soulless
>>59096980
>>59096013are there any bans you actually disagree with or are you just being contrarian?
>>59097030NTA but the Kyurem ban was actively astroturfed bullshit, who's to say any others aren't bullshit? Like banning Sleep.
>>59095987Of course. They still have a large player base of poor brown people
>>59097046It was overturned though so the correct outcome won, no?Personally I think the insane number of bans in Gen 9 is actually a consequence of the choice to keep Tera to maintain the "spirit" of Gen 9. The bans are almost entirely broken as fuck sweepers that become uncheckable with Tera since you have to guess their Tera type and that usually costs you a mon just forcing Tera.
>>59097030Banning tera made me roll my eyes but its only on natdex so eeeehhhh. Banning sleep altogether across all formats made me realize Smogon had lost the plot. Whatever game they’re playing at this point, it isn’t even Pokemon.And what’s funny is so many of the issues they have could be resolved by just admitting that the way they play the game diverges too greatly from its balance core. Never ONCE have they seriously tested Item Clause despite it being a key balance staple for decades. Never ONCE have they tried a bring-4 format. They have all the tools to automate open team-sheet but they leave it closed and then bitch that Tera is “muh 50/50”. They let banned mythicals run rampant in their base tiers but ban Machamp because confusion is “anticompetitive”.It’s a joke, my guy. It’s them desperately trying to make “6 mons with 4 choice bands and everything’s hidden” be balanced when it’s never going to be because it isn’t designed to be.
>>59097078>they should do [thing in VGC] because that's what VGC does!Nah.
>>59097062It's also a consequence of wounded pride and ego from when everyone outside of the Smogon competitive scene clowned on them for banning Dynamax in Gen 8, so they basically had every incentive to vote Tera out of spite, even if it meant the meta would be a nonstop shitshow of bans all while Smogon Council favorites like Gholdengo and Kingambit get to run amok, uncontested, despite being as centralizing as fucking Gen 2 Snorlax or Gen 3 Tyranitar with none of the ripple effect precedent.
>>59097119No, you’re right, instead of automatically revealing a mon’s tera type, they should ban any mon that benefits from tera, until they give up and ban tera entirely. That’s definitely the best choice. Way more balanced.
>>59097078>They have all the tools to automate open team-sheet but they leave it closed and then bitch that Tera is “muh 50/50”open team sheets are based on the generation's official mechanics. gen 5 onwards has open teamsheets in smogon and in vgc.>Banning sleep altogether across all formats made me realize Smogon had lost the plot.sleep is anticompetitive and just turns the game into rng over whether you wake up or not. para is too but they can't ban it since it's an actual counter to speedsters.>Never ONCE have they seriously tested Item Clause despite it being a key balance staple for decades. Never ONCE have they tried a bring-4 format.I agree with these but bring 4 format is a playable format in showdown it's just not an official format. item clause should be official though but smogon fags are too reliant on heavy duty boots and leftovers.I'm not saying smogon doesn't make dumb decisions but the hate towards it on this board is mostly from low skill shitters that just think pokemon singles should be as uncompetitive as VGC.
>>59097125Revealing the tera type would do literally nothing. Most Pokemon only have a type or two that they would run, and you would still have no information on who will tera or when. Either ban it all or keep it untouched. Any bandaid fix is retarded and would help nothing.
>>59097136Smogon can't ban Paralysis because too many moves cause it. Electric types would have fuck all attacks to use if Paralysis was banned.
>>59097121I can almost understand banning Dynamax, I think there would have been value in doubling the ladders (OU, OU no Dyna, etc) because Dynamax is… a thing. But Tera is different, it’s one of the most skill-expressive mechanics in franchise history, it only got banned because Smogon doesn’t like skill expression, it likes mathematically solved matches with objectively correct plays and absolutely no human-reading or probability management.The appeal of Pokemon is that it’s equal parts chess and poker. Smogon wants to kill everything poker about it. That’s antithetical to the spirit of the game itself, which is about managing limited information and probability, bluffing and reading bluffs, and long-term positioning to minimize unacceptable risk JUST AS MUCH as it is about tactical planning, foresight, and understanding advantageous game states and how to reach them.I’ve said it before, if Smogon moderated Texas Hold Em, they’d ban Full House as an “uncompetitive 50/50” when someone raises when they see a pair on the River.
>>59097136>sleep is anticompetitive and just turns the game into rngGrass type viability is HEAVILY tied to spore immunity, managing your spore immunity is a big deal in VGC specifically to handle sleep. It’s only “random” when you allow mons that set sleep to act with impunity and then bitch that you’re rolling the dice on 1-3 turn wakeups. You have tools to handle sleep. You have grass types, safety goggles, electric terrain. These are all common in VGC because they manage sleep.I kind of get “it’s just random unfun bullshit” on like, sheer cold and fissure (though Ting Lu has a valid tactical reason for running it) where it’s literally just gambling. But that’s not at ALL true of sleep.
>>59097139Then it’s not “muh 50/50” so quit bitching. Learn to bait the tera. Oh, right, you can’t, because a 6v6 format gives you too much versatility in your defensive core so you’re never able to apply pressure that forces a defensive tera until way late in the game when you’ve lost the tools to deal with it.See how that works.
>>59097166>Spore is the only sleep moveWell at least we know you don't know what you're talking about.
>>59097175I'm fine with tera, it's retards like you who think half-measures do anything.You're probably the same retard who blames tera for all the bans, too.
>>59097183Your next best bet is what, 60% acc hypnosis?
>>59097145No, see, they only ban INTENTIONAL sleep. Dire Claw is okay, the council likes Sneasler so a move that randomly applies a status which is banned when caused deliberately is totally fine and balanced.
>>59097183It's the only sleep move that's worth using because it's by default 100% accurate.All the other sleep moves have a chance to miss, and Dark Void is obviously a no-go ever since they neutered Smeargle's ability to use it, and Darkrai is perpetually banned (and even if it WERE permitted, Dark Void was nerfed into oblivion solely so regulations WITH Darkrai didn't become miserable to play).
>>59097231Sneasler is banned to Ubers where it's dogshit.
>>59097196Yeah. That means you get to put to sleep the vast majority of things with a wider range of Pokemon.Hypnosis is in fact why Sleep Clause changed in the first place.You don't just have to account for 1 Pokemon using 1 move that has accessible immunities like Grass types or Safety Goggles. there are dozens of Hypnosis users you have to guess if they are running Hypnosis or not. Not only accounting for the move itself, but also account for what moves it has too. If you guess wrong and your opponent gets lucky, you effectively lost a Pokemon or even lost the entire game.
>>59097282Yet Iron Valiant is still OU, a Pokemon that's so infamously versatile that its very existence can cost you entire games because of how many viable (or even unorthodox yet STILL usable) sets it could be running, and how much it costs you to make a wrong prediction on what kind of set it's working with.Smogon's a fucking joke.
>>59097196Hypnosis is what got it banned. There's no counter to it other than one time use berries, and Iron Valiant and Darkrai were spamming Hypnosis in OU, and often times the miss chance worked in their favor since they'd miss the Pokemon you were planning on saccing to sleep and they'd get to save it for later.
>>59097148>it only got banned because Smogon doesn’t like skill expressionit didn't though
>>59097295First time I've heard someone drag Smogon for NOT banning something.
>>59097196It made Iron Valiant's guaranteed lose match ups into 50/50's
>>59097307It's the hypocrisy more than anything, I don't really give a shit about Iron Valiant being allowed or not.Hypnosis gets banned because it turns matches into gambles because of RNG combined with "is it or is it not running Hypnosis" anxiety, but diversity incarnate gets to roam freely.
>>59095987>he doesn't know Nintendo only made Champions to give them a reason to C&D showdown.
>>59097314I do think Iron Valiant should be banned, but it would cause another ban cascade since Valiant keeps a lot of things in check. I guess Smogon doesn't want to ban another ~10 Pokemon this late into the generation.
>>59097319They wouldn't need to spend 9 digits worth of yen to develop, advertise, and release Champions to C&D Showdown. They could do it at any time they wanted. They don't do it because they can't actually take Showdown down, they can only make it more obnoxious for the userbase to use.
>>59097310It’s absolutely wild to me what’s OP in singles, in VGC you only run hypnosis for two reasons>you have a support mon that can get it but not spore>cheeky sleep on unexpecting grass typesIt’s way too unreliable otherwise.
>>59095987Champions was never supposed to replace Showdown. They know Showdown helps them in ways that they'd be unwilling to replicate.
>>59097353Sleep is overall stronger in Singles in general since it generates free turns. In Doubles, if one of your Pokemon get slept, you're running at 50% effectiveness, not 0%. Sleep gets more potent the higher the power level. That's why Darkrai was one of the most potent Pokemon in Gen 6 Ubers. The power level was so high that even one or two free turns was enough to completely win a game off of a snowball.OU has gotten to the point where it's as swingy as old gen Ubers. One or two free turns is all you need for Dragonite/Volcarona/Iron Valiant/Darkrai/Zamazenta/Iron Moth/Roaring Moon/Ogerpon/Archaludon/Gouging Fire/Ceruledge/Dragapult/Kyurem/Blaziken/Garchomp to run away with a game.
>>59097385Two points:One, this is why doubles is more balanced. There’s always that check when one pokemon is counteredTwo, isn’t the whole POINT of smogon’s tiers to be “we measure what you’re ACTUALLY most likely to see, and that means every mon is viable”?Powercreep is powercreep but when it’s all paradoxes and shit running rampant in OU, maybe instead of banning 30% of them, you could just play UU, where less viable mons can shine. Like you can’t have 28 “overcentralizing mons” that’s a fucking META. That’s what it means. We’re at double the number of mons we had in gen IV and they’ve added what, 1 tier in that time? 2 if you count AG? And instead of, again, embracing what the game is and how it’s changing, they’re desperately trying to make up house rules to keep the metagame the same as it used to be.
>>59097385This is also why Dark Void got nerfed even AFTER they stripped Smeargle's privileges of getting to use it, by the way.Sleeping a single target is one thing, but being able to sleep both foes in doubles is arguably even more vile than its current functionality in singles.
>>59097440The Dark Void nerf is dumb because Darkrai is not legal in any format and never has been. It gets clowned on because you EITHER>prevent Smeargle from copying signature moves of banned pokemonor>nerf those moves if Smeargle abuses themBut there’s no reason to do both. But yes, 100% accurate both-partner sleep is fucky. And it was in a generation when there were far fewer tools to address it than now (honestly I think Dark Void Smeargle would be fine in a modern restricted format, it’s basically deadweight with Miraidon running around)
>>59097428There was RU in gen 5 and then AG and PU in gen 6. The issue might be that there's not enough players to make another tier a part of the ladder. There's a Ubers UU tier for SV featuring Pokemon that are banned from OU but not good enough to see play in Ubers. I don't really know how active the players are since it doesn't have a ladder, but there's at least tournaments still being held.
>>590974281. Doubles has its own host of issues, and it's far more centralized than Singles. It's very rare to see a Singles tier where the most used Pokemon has over 35% usage, but it's very common in VGC to see multiple Pokemon crack 40% and some crack 70%. 2. Smogon has a policy of banning only the nails that stick out. Gen 9 was balanced in such a way that if Smogon didn't ban any of the new Pokemon, OU would have a 90% Flutter Mane usage rate and Smogon would have to start unbanning a bunch of Ubers like Mewtwo, Lugia, Ho-oh, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Reshiram, and etc to help keep Flutter Mane in check.>We’re at double the number of mons we had in gen IV and they’ve added what, 1 tier in that time? 2 if you count AG?1. RU2. PU3. AG(4)ZU(5) UU Ubers(6) RU Ubers
>>59097477>(honestly I think Dark Void Smeargle would be fine in a modern restricted format, it’s basically deadweight with Miraidon running around)Anon, people would run other terrain setters to underspeed Miraidon and delete Electric Terrain so they could double-sleep you. Doesn't matter if Miraidon switches out and back in because the Smeargle's team would have several turns of advantage.
>>59097493Ubers UU does have a ladder, but it's not an "official" meta game just like ZU isn't. They still track your ELO and the usage rate within the tier.
>>59097500>1. Doubles has its own host of issues, and it's far more centralized than Singles. It's very rare to see a Singles tier where the most used Pokemon has over 35% usage, but it's very common in VGC to see multiple Pokemon crack 40% and some crack 70%.Comparing top 12 or whatever in a VGC tournament to ladder play is not reasonable nor is talking about centralization in regards to the various restricted metas that are supposed to be like that
>>59097493I guess my point is, back when I started playing Pokemon, Smogon’s tiering system was designed to be explanatory. OU meant Over Used; they were mons you were likely to SEE in battles and needed to be able to address because of how common they were. Mechanics were only banned rarely because they were deemed “not viable but also not fun to play against” (sheer cold, moody, strategies that get you kicked to low ladder long-term but just ruin everyone else’s good time).Somewhere along the way, it metamorphosed from an analysis of what was likely when playing opponents into some perverse metagame equivalent of a ROMhack where a council of spergs desperately try to reshape the game into what they think it should be rather than what it is. We’re at a point where sleep, a core mechanic of the franchise since its inception, is outright banned. Like I said, whatever game Smogon is playing, it’s no longer Pokemon.
>>59097500Yeah, but (weirdly) I don’t think this is “centralizing”, at least in a bad way. In a lot of cases, this is just because a mon does something useful no other mon does. Like Incineroar, which is a useful intimidate disruptor that no other mon (except maybe Scrafty) can replicate.But is that bad? Nobody ever said>the team looks okay, but how will you deal with Incineroar?Anything deals with Incineroar. It isn’t hard to delete. It has a role and does that role. Addressing it is as simple as attacking. It’s not like the meta becomes “always carry Incineroar answer”, anything is an incineroar answer.To be sure, VGC has some extremely dominant threats, where you would ask yourself “okay but what is my answer to this mon”. But they’re also the dominant threats in OU (Dozo, Kingambit, Sneasler, Gholdengo) so what’s the difference?The reason VGC sees more centralized usage is that some VGC roles have VERY few meaningful mons to fill them. Those mons aren’t broken, they’re just doing something no other mon is built to do. It’s not like if you banned Amoonguss, 10 other marginal bulky spore rage powder users would jostle for relevance in its place. It’s just the only mon doing what it does.
>>59097566Incineroar is just a gluemon, which practically every #1 usage OU Pokemon is as well (Great Tusk, Lando, etc). VGC regularly has strong offensive threats hitting usage rates OU Pokemon could only dream of. That's why Smogon nae nae'd Flutter Mane and Urshifu on top of other Pokemon. OU would've ended up just as imbalanced as VGC otherwise.
>>59097623Reg H I think the highest usage rates were 30% for offensive mons which is comparable to OU. Prior formats were either restricted (obviously centralized) or “lol paradox mons and sublegendaries are legal” which of course made those mons meta-defining.
>>59096336>sucks at vgc>sucks at showdownIs there anything this guy is actually good at
>>59096055>>59096390>>59096398>>59096433>>59096652>>59097319I'm sure the C&D will be coming any day now.
>>59097623>>59097673For clarity (for those who don’t know VGC) they rotate banlists in VGC formats. Flutter mane being centralizing is fine because that format was close to Ubers, it legalized sublegendaries and paradox pokemon en masse with the INTENT that the meta was about them. The format prior was closer to AG (you’re allowed two box legendaries per team, enjoy your Zacian-C and Terapagos core). Then afterward they did a format where all paradoxes and legendaries of any kind (including Urshifu and the like) are banned. They do these rotations regularly; Champions launches with its own format (reg M-A). If you treated each of these regulation sets as its own “meta”, Reg H (no legendaries or paradox mons) would be the closest to OU.
>>59096849>The YGO comparison isn't even accurate because the only option you had for that was a site that had literally no inbuilt rules and worked on the honor system.Wrong. There were quite a few automated yugioh sims existed before Master Duel was released.
>>59095987Valve should buy showdown and give it proper funding just to spite nintenjew even further
>>59096698you didn't complain in gen 1-5
>>59097148>terasharting>skill expressive
>>59098293Let's be real, he probably wasn't even alive for most of gens 1-5.
Why does /vp/ have so many smogon fanboys?
>>59096013hehehehehe
I stopped playing competitive on Showdown when gen 7 rolled along and those "tapu keke" "tapu lele" (whatever theyre called) legendaries saturated OU.That was the point where overtuned abilities ruined all the fun for me, especially since they were designed to negate certain strategies.
>>59095987>Finally gets nuked by Nintendo when they realize Champions is failing
>>59095987Playing a soulless dead emulation of Pokémon where you just click the Pokémon you want without catching them, click any nature and ability, EVs, IVs, moves... It's so fucking DEAD... That I cannot comprehend the mindset of people who actually promote this as a "solution" to people who want online battling in FRLG or whatever.
>>59096265Smogon is soulless also. Anything goes on a real game is the only acceptable format.
>>59098616>>59098627You must hate Champions then anon
>>59096715Champions doesn't have 6v6>>59098616It's the only solution outside of emulators. Pick your poison.
>>59098613Champions can't fail since it's used for VGC
>>59097688getting money from gay furries
>>59098757He sucks at that too, and not even the literal kind of sucking.
>>59098706>It's the only solution outside of emulatorsWhy can't we use hardware at tournaments?
>>59096401>Simulators are completely legal under US lawso are emulators, roms, modifying your hardware, making a game with capturing mechanics, and making a game where you ride a monster, but nintendo has made major steps towards preventing those through manipulation anyway. They'll ban showdown some how some way. Just you wait.
>>59096980Is chess soulless because there's not an animation for each piece taking another? It's a strategy game, not the rpg series it's based on. They even do have animations you can leave on for fun if you want. They didn't have to include those.
>>59097231dire claw is banned...
>>59097428>this is why doubles is more balanced.kek
>>59095987You can't beat free. Champions has too many restrictions on what you can do in it, while Showdown allows you to do whatever you want with no limits. If Nintendo actually wanted to outcompete Showdown they shouldn't have tried to jew out the playerbase with the VP, Battle passes and limited boxes nonsense
>>59098616>likes wasting time with mundane shitRetard
>>59098822So you just use cheat codes and save states in every game you ever play. Why waste your time replaying the same level 50 times due to an ultra hard jump, when you can just cheat and save state and complete it within 5 minutes?What an empty husk of an experience. But this is how little kids are now due to being raised by an iPad with instant gratification. Their dopamine receptors are fucking FUCKED with no repair possible.
>>59098923Little boys and girls in 2026 are so brain damaged that they can't understand the rush of spending time hunting for a rare Pokémon and then you get a battle in the grass and see the silhouette of the rare sweep into frame. It's the rarity of the event and effort required to find it that creates the dopamine spike when it appears and you catch it. If you could just click "Feebas" and have it then it's corpse tier dead.
>bans Baton pass and sleep>does not ban thunder wave or stall teams
>>59096390I hope, but I doubt it.
>>59096663Not until after the 8th of April. But then, yes. C'n'D and likely a lawyer threat of pulling the site owners up in court to seek damages for historic and pervasive illegal use of their trademarked IP for personal gain.You know, like you retard cunts swore blind they wouldn't do anything to the Gen 8 leakers, only for them to be nailed to a wall in court for the world to see. Be interesting to see do any those autistic shitbags attempt to use the "fair use" excuse to explain why they've been collecting money off idiots for a decade and a half.
>>59098973>false equivalenceIs that all you have?
>>59098616>>59098923Playing pokemon and battling competitively are completely different games. Most people do both, but it's silly to say "ah yeah every time I want to experiment with a different set or mon I want to spend x amount of time grinding that out instead of throwing it in a sim and seeing how it goes"
>>59098943Define stall
>>59098943gen 9 is the most hyper-offensive metagame yet bro
>>59100121That's not really saying much.
>>59097148>I can almost understand banning DynamaxThis is like almost understanding how the Earth is round.
>>59098943>stall in gen 9
>>59098973>CnD showdown>piss off VGC crowd they were making Champions to cater for>Showdown 2 appears on a different server since it's open sourceGood job
>>59100261>shut down Showdown 2>repeat ad nauseum for every single new iteration as the community starts to fracture into splinter servers in order to make it "harder to stay down">eventually there's so many servers with so few players each that they just give up and go reconvene on Champions>????>PROFIT
>>59100269that isn't how it works dude, it would splinter exactly once and then people would stick to a single extra community that keeps its head down and lasts decades.
>>59100269They shut down Prism, but that reappeared.
>>59100318Yeah, because Prism waited until SMUSUM were no longer the main games being marketed, which featured Necrozma, the Prism Pokemon.The only reason Prism got nuked is because it was being featured on Twitch Plays Pokemon, which was uber-popular at the time, and moreover had the unfortunate coincidence of this happening while Necrozma was an up and coming mon.
>>59100155It’s still the defining feature of the games though. I agree it was a correctly loathed mechanic, and I’d prefer playing without it, but banning it would be like banning Fairy Type in Gen 6.
>>59100458No, that has nothing similar with Dynamax at all. The only way to limit Dynamax is by banning it outright. Fairy-type is a new typing which is one of the core aspects of Pokémon that even transcend game mechanics in importance.... but even if it was just a mechanic, you could individually pick one Pokémon or move and ban it selectively which is what they did with Megas, where certain stones got banned. There's no such a thing with Dynamax which is enabled by default so the next step would be banning Dynamax outright which would be the equivalent of both players agreeing to not press the button.
>>59097428>One, this is why doubles is more balancedNot really, you can see right now where we're seeing the new megas abilities and VGCfags are all like "BUT WHAT ABOUT MEGAMENCE HUH????? BUT WHAT ABOUT MEGA GENGAR????" and wishing that the new megas have overcentralizing presence to fit in VGC teams where overcentralization is the norm
>>59100529The issue isn’t that those mons are “overcentralizing” it’s that when you only get to bring one mega, you need one more worth bringing than the goddamn mack trucks with rocket engines. If you ban mega mence and mega khan, the next most powerful megas just take their place as the only mega anyone runs, because that’s the issue with megas. They aren’t situational, you have to give up your held item to run one, the only mon you bring that CAN mega is the one that WILL mega and that means you’re only bringing the best mega.
>>59100657That is exactly what overcentralizing means. In a balanced meta you have choices for different megas. Like in smogon singles when certain overcentralizing megas are banned...
>>59100663“Overcentralizing” doesn’t mean “common” it means “every team has to either run this thing or be designed to counter it to be viable” which is hardly the same.Remember, you’re talking about MEGAS. You get ONE. How many Pokemon would you have to ban for 1v1 pokemon to be balanced? When you can only pick one of something, you tend to pick the most powerful one. Yes, a handful of megas will dominate the meta. That’s what happens when you have 10 megas with a BST of 700 and 10 megas with a BST of 480; nobody picks the 480 ones. The conversation around that is true. Everyone going “my bro got a mega” is getting laughed at because doubling its attack stat isn’t making it worth the only mega evolution you get on your side.You can’t fix that with bans, you’d have to fix it by changing how mega evolution worked mechanically.
>>59100684The next problem is, if you make it so you can run more Megas, you overcentralize in a different way, where Pokemon who DON'T get Megas and DON'T already innately have godly stats, moves, etc. are now pruned even harder.Pokemon just isn't fucking meant to be a compgame that can be balanced, especially sure as fuck not when it want to have hundreds upon hundreds of potentail party members all with countless variables in how you can build their stats, moves and equipment.Even a regulation/format that tries to ward off as much shit as possible so someone like Ariados can be viable will still find a way to be unfairly unbalanced, that's just how Pokemon is.
>>59100657That's just a VGC problem. Everyone always runs the same teams in that format.
>>59100695Back of doubler, Ariados is for the singles chads. And let me tell you, these webs stay on the field all night.
>>59100695Honestly I’m not convinced a “diverse meta” is intrinsically good anyway. Like you look at the top 50 Pokemon getting all the usage and go “wow, that’s so limited”, but imagine a fighting game with 50 playable characters, it’d be a nightmare to learn. You really want a fucking THOUSAND?If the idea is “okay but we’re all sick of Incineroar on every team” just do seasonal popularity bans. Rather than try to manually tune for long-term balance, just have the 25 most used mons from a season be disallowed for the next two seasons. Force churn in the meta. Let it move from one core of common mons to another core of common mons periodically, but stop trying to force it not to solidify around a core of popular and highly viable threats. Learning how to build a team that can handle common threats is a big part of the game, if you play 20 matches and never see the same mons twice we’re all fucked.
>>59100684>Overcentralizing” doesn’t mean “common” it means “every team has to either run this thing or be designed to counter it to be viable”>>59100657>If you ban mega mence and mega khan, the next most powerful megas just take their place as the only mega anyone runs,Retard-kun...
>>59100720Yup, look no further than Smash for how obscene big rosters go. It's even worse with DLC characters who HAVE to be strong so people will buy them even if they don't care for the character, Steve singlehandedly ruined Smash Ultimate because his mechanics make him an elder god who plays a completely different game from every single other character in the roster.
>>59100720Pokemon is more like a TCG than a fighting game, but too much deck variety can be a detriment in card games as well.
