My opinion on the special split gen 4 is divided. (Carlos.png)On one hand who honestly didn't want the elemental punches to be converted based on name alone? Hitmonchan needed something! But was one pic related niche that you simply cannot duplicate in HG/SS.Flareon running Morty's Shadow Ball was a 'me thing' I would do in every runthrough.>Ghost STAB alternatives were not so great>Misdreavus was post game>Not an optimal slot on Gengar (ifihadone.png)I'll trust that I don't have to explain the appeal otherwise. This is also how I found out that Stadium 2 was bullshit on my own.>Face a psychic type trainer>Opens with Flareon vs. Slowbro>Select Shadow Ball>The AI hard switches to Girafarig on the first turn.Anyways, what are your thoughts of pre-split gaming, and why?
>>59102505I started in Gen 2 and I thought the split already existed, I just went off vibes as a kid on what was physical and special. Thought the punches were physical and stuff like shadow ball was special.
>>59102505what's even more criminal than the dumb and unintuitiveness is that nowhere in the game does it tell you that certain types are physical or special, for THREE WHOLE GENERATIONS
>>59102607The player's guide era was a different time. At least they indirectly promoted players to learn to read back then.
>>59102505Im a gen 2 nerd but i find both ways of doing it pretty decent. My only complain is how Ghost is physical and Dark is Special. Its not just the fact that its a stat issue but it also doesnt really fit thematically. Ghosts are otherwordly beings with no physical form and Dark type attacks is basically dirty fighting with punching, biting, stealing, feints, sneak attacks etc.Sp Atk scaling Ghost would make Morty a lot more difficult to fight but im all in for it and Psychic type would also bump up more in power. Dark types dont miss out on tons but having them scale with Atk would be nice.One pet peeve of mine is Hyper Beam losing its destructive status with the split since it became a special attack. Its totally understandable and in theme, but im still upset because Hyper Beam used to be the be all end all into one-shotting things and now its rarely the case.Elemental punches are a bit iffy thematically as well. I too wish Hitmonchan could benefit from them more in the first three gens and yet here we are.
>>59102607Lots of stuff simply wasn't told to encourage the sale of officially licensed strategy guides, that's how old games operated.
>>59102634The weird thing is that a lot of the game mechanics are actually explained explicitly in the games, usually in the Trainer's School in one of the first cities. Gen I even had an NPC that explained which badges raise which stats, a mechanic so pointless you probably won't even notice it.
>>59102694>wish Hitmonchan could benefit from them more in the first three gens and yet here we are.If abilities still exist in a world without the physical/special split, iron fist could also have the benefit of using the users higher attack stat for damage in addition to the power boost
>>59102694>One pet peeve of mine is Hyper Beam losing its destructive status with the split since it became a special attack.Didn't they make Giga Impact a thing ever since gen 4? Also I don't recall vanilla Hyper Beam being relevant outside of gen 1 because of how many effective walls there were in gen 2, followed by power creep ever after.
>>59102701>Gen I even had an NPC that explained which badges raise which stats, a mechanic so pointless you probably won't even notice itEvery gym leader told you what their badges did. That NPC was a recap for what they wouldn't tell you a second time.
>>59102505Actually, which gen 2 Pokémon statistically made the most out of Shadow Ball's raw power? Where would Flareon's behemoth attack rank along everyone that could learn it in gen 2?
>>59102505Oh no the mixed attacker hits a little less harder against the piss easy NPCs
>>59102719It’s the strongest user of it based on base stats
>>59102719https://www.serebii.net/attackdex-gs/shadowball.shtmlUnironically top tier the stabbies only ran 60 and 65 attack. It ties with Ho-oh at #1 for raw output. So basically only that and Mewtwo are better users because of being better Pokémon/Legendaries.
>>59102714Yes, and it's still completely pointless.
>>59102739An automatic stat boost was anything but pointless. Without them, clearing Yellow with your shitty underleveled starter would have been more tedious than it already is
>>59102708That would certainly flip the table on a lot more than just elemental punches.>>59102711Yes, Giga Impact is the physical equivalant since Gen 4 but its not a very popular move still.>Also I don't recall vanilla Hyper Beam being relevant outside of gen 1 because of how many effective walls there were in gen 2, followed by power creep ever after.It depends. Not everything is tanky as hell, its just that in Gen 1 Normal types were generally stronger and also no recharge lole so the use of the move was more prominant. Im pretty sure you can run Snorlax or Tauros with Hyper Beam and still do well in Gen 2.
>>59102720>A physical attack that drops a stat unrelated to promote unique mixed attackingSOVL>Psychic except it's ghost typeSoulless
>>59102774>A ghost attack to counter special walls>The special walls are normal type
>>59102505>On one hand who honestly didn't want the elemental punches to be converted based on name alone?Me, as I was that kid who put the elemental punches on Alakazam, and then went full ham on every trainer.
>>59102720I mean, it was the only thing close to a competitive niche that mon ever got in the history of the franchise.
>>59102769I had meant for the boost to affect only punching moves but I’m not sure if there are ate any iron fist pokemon with good enough move pools or minmaxed enough stats for it to matter much
>>59102505Should've used the secret technique of getting Shadow Ball in RBY
>>59102782Based, always expose their lies
>>59102505>cannot do in HGSSFlareon still learns shadow ball in gen 4 retard. And it has 95 sp.atk, it’s not like that’s unusable especially for one of the few coverage moves it has
>>59102719Flareon is #1 unironically. No ghost type in gen 2 had more than 70 physical attack, it was so unusable for them that dark moves even without stab were stronger
>>59102813Oh no…anyway
>>59102505Or it should just get a physical Ghost move now
>>59102505I like pre-split gaming because the movesets are much more limited. On paper phy/spe split should have been a straight improvement that fixed the oddities and expanded the options avaliable to pokemon.In practice all they did was add a reliable physical and special move of every type avaliable to every pokemon and now every attacker feel the same and only their abilities and stats matter.
If there's one thing I dislike pre-split, it's that physical options felt way too limited. You take special, and for fire options alone you have Fire Punch, Flamethrower, Fire Blast. And there were many different ways to be a solid special attacker. For physical attackers, you want Earthquake, you want Rock Slide, you want some form of reliable fighting move that isn't just Hidden Power. If you don't have any of those three options you just fucking suck balls out of a straw. You can say go mixed, but there's plenty of these mons that going mixed is so bad, you may as well not bother.
>>59102505Both have their perks I think post is better, but it's definitely a decision with some nuance.Pre, was an era where pokemon not being entitled to good stab and coverage was much more normal. Nowadays, near every single pokemon is entitled to an 80+, 100% accurate move, amd 100+, <100% accurate move in the preferred Attack of their types (often both attack stats). To the point, that stat/type combos that don't work are maligned, like physical electric. Pre split, shit like Gyarados, with no physical stab at all, and stab on its bad attacking stat existed, and more pokemon were expected to go some form of mixed. I do think the game has lost some nuance from the split, but I also think a lot of pokemon that currently exist would be fucking cancer if they operated pre split. The split also did genuinely help a lot of utter shitmons like Mighteyena, who went from a joke pre split, to being actually pretty reasonable post.
>>59105248Hypothetically, that problem would be mostly solved if the split had just not happened, since many of the currently existing moves would probably still exist even if the split wasn't added, so Fighting types would still have Close Combat or whatever. Earth Power still may exist, just as physical ect. Fairy would be an odd point, since it would mean that there are more special attacks than physical (I mean Fairy is almost assuredly Special), and ever since Normal's fall from grace, special defense is probably too much better than physical, but, that was already kinda the case. Physical Chansey wouldn't be as good even as is.
>>59105205>>59105326getting mixed signals here
>>59102505It was fine when EVs weren't a thing
I think the problem with the split was the evs. Remove the distribution bullshit with evs so we can have mixed attackers again
>>59105781Based, natures too
>>59102607>what's even more criminal than the dumb and unintuitiveness is that nowhere in the game does it tell you that certain types are physical or special, for THREE WHOLE GENERATIONSThis is the kind of obvious thing that Game Freak would put off an implementing until a future generation.
I liked when I put some attacks on gold silver and transfer them back to stadium 1 and the game marked those moves as illegal. Like Alakazam punches and Charizard with wing attack.>>59105776They existed on gen 1&2 but you could max all of them not just 2.
>>59102505I have a fondness for the pre-split eras, both the Special stat and the Physical-Special categories, purely for nostalgia and enjoying the basic beginnings of the series; and even as funny as martial artist Abra or noodle arm Hitmonchan are, the splits were better for the games.
>>59102505The 'mons are the ones that matter
>>59102505Split is only a good thing and should’ve happened sooner. Bite being special is retarded.
It wasn't until gen 4 that the meta became reliant on stat boosting. The gamebreaking Dragon Dance was on gen 3, but the distribution was so poor that it wasn't a big deal at the time; especially since Dragon attacks were special attacks.
>>59107071It wasn't special in RBY
>>59102505>lust-provoking image>irrelevant time-wasting boring thread
>>59105312So the actual problem was powercreep and move distribution
>>59107886Lust?Feck off furfag.
>>59102505>include phys/spec split in old gen>BUT keep the movepool shitty and moves weak in general>good moves feel more like signature moves for certain pokemonthere, fixed itautists that complain about the split are actually complaining about gen 4 adding bazillion new moves and viable stab move for almost all types making move choices dumb and straightforward, instead of the split itself
>>59108889You can find Eeveelutions attractive. It doesn't necessarily make you a furry.
>>59109045You could also be a straight-up zoophile.Calling you a furry was the more charitable option.
>>59109054Real animals are smelly, needy, and instinctual. They only care about you if you provide them food.Pokémon are cute, expressive, clean, loving, and flawless in comparison.
>>59107886It's just the official sprite retard
>>59108950And don't add more shit with minmaxed stats
Being a Sneasel enjoyer in gens 2 and 3 was pure suffering
>>59102505like that one
>>59102769The reason nobody uses hyper beam anymore is because in gen 1 if you knocked a pokemon out with it you wouldnt have to do the recharge turn. They fixed itNothing to do with it becoming a special move.
>>59107874Because it was normal type move
>>59102505I liked that Dark was a trickster type that had moves that looked physical while being a special type desu
>>59110443Right? When I first saw Pusuit, I predicted that it was going to be a staple for future games. I was wrong of course, but I was not expecting double battles to come and completely change up the format.
>>59102505looks kinda important
>>59108950That would've been much better
>>59105781Having to choose between the two really grates on me each time
>>59105126Or a stronger Grass move
>>59112959And a better physical Fire move
>>59109665I think that's the joke
>>59108950Or just add more moves to TMs and make them more available
>>59112959>>59113918Or just improve Trailblaze and Flame Charge
>>59108950Problem is that shit was half-assed as usual. Either don't do it at all or make sure all types have good Physical and Special moves
>>59102505The split is kinda still in place, most types still lean more physical or special in terms of moves, and they generally match their pre-split categories. Electric and Fairy have no good physical moves, Fighting has no good Special moves, etc. The only one that switched allegiance is Dragon becoming physical-oriented.
>>59109798>Types are Dark(Special), Ice(Special)>Basically no special attack.>Poor stats overall>Despite this appears in literally the absolute last dungeon of the game. I love Sneasel but I think they are a genuine contender for worst (Gameplay) designed Pokemon in Gen 2.
>>59110443I hate it mostly because GW seems to forget that Dark types are meant to be special attackers. >>59116675Dark and to a much lesser extent Ghost also switched places.
>>59116691*GF
>>59102505Split was necessary to give some pokemon and types a fighting chance. That being said, special punches in Gen 2 are so broken. (Feraligatr+Ampharos)xGoldrenrod Dept. Store= EZ mode
>>59102505>what are your thoughts of pre-split gamingGiving my entire team the moves whose animations look the coolest, even if they're mediocre like Snatch. Because around that time I was still 10 and I still had fun doing stupid shit like beating the league 100 times so I could go to the moon and catch Deoxys.I did find out about the special vs physical types eventually and I just found it nonsensical and never bother learning it. And I was glad gen 4 fixed things even though EVERYONE in the forum I frequented was assblasted about the change.
>>59105205People who say this should be forced to play pokémon with mons like Lilligant and nothing else, and see if they still have good memories about limited movesets
>>59116691>>>/tg/
>>59116708When limited movesets are the norm it's tolerable, when having a great moveset is the norm outliers like lilligant feel like irredeemable ass
>>59102505I used to troll my middle school friends with a Belly Drum, Rest, Snore combo. Shit had me dying.
>>59117130Yeah I also miss spamming Tri-Attack on a Choice Band Dodrio.
>>59115721And Pounce
>>59102607they told you so in FireRed so i always i thought it was in the manual or some player guide or somethingMaybe the anime mentions something like that
>>59118174With how fucked up the anime was with mechanics I doubt they knew shit like that
>>59116617or fix the stats on a lot of 'mons
>>59102607Most of them are intuitive enough anyway
>>59116775wouldn't wish a shithole like that on anyone
>>59120594Is /vp/ that much better?
>>59102505Imo the games only improved since the split Pre-split is painful because many pokemon feel misaligned A great example is Gyarados, super high physical attack and low special, no usable stabs because water is special
>>59120625You will click hidden power flying and you will like it.
>>59120606yeah by not being the designated newfag board
>>59121774That doesn't sound right
>>59120606ffs they even added /tg/ shit to the april fools captcha now
>>59122008what, you've never seen those faggots vomiting out regurgitated 40k "lore" and saying shit like "lol i got it from 4chan but it's ok i only go to /tg/"
>>59120625The funny part is that's only a problem for Gyarados because of GSC, which introduced the Special Stat split.Gyarados was a rightful god among mons in RGBY because it had a Special Stat of 100 to compliment its Attack of 125, meaning it could dish out monstrous Surfs/Hydro Pumps AND nuke you with Hyper Beam as a finisher.Everyone's true grievances with pre-split are actually with the original split, the special stat split, which by and large nerfed a lot of mons and made it way harder for them to function.
>>59102769Hyper Beam died when Pokémon Stadium (JP: Pocket Monsters Stadium 2) nerfed it so that KOs still caused a recharge turn. Same reason nobody uses Slaking any more, giving the opponent free turns sucks. All of Hyper Beam's variants like Blast Burn or Giga Impact never stood a chance as anything but extremely niche win conditions where they'd likely KO the opponent's last mon.
>>59107105Dragon Dance was still used on a few movesets in Gen III even without it boosting Dragon STAB, it's what made Tyranitar meta-defining back then too.
>>59118174Anime only started following the rules in Black/White season
>>59102505I like the simplicity of the pre-split movesets. Often times you'd have to weigh the advantages of running a suboptimal attacking move on a Pokemon for coverage purposes. While I think that there could have been abilities to help Pokemon out with certain attacks (ex: ability for Hitmonchan: punching moves use the physical attack stat), if you then get to that point, you might as well start just doing the split anyways. But to me, the pre-split system for attack properties is exactly why ADV and Orre Colosseum still has some pretty interesting developments and meta adaptions to this day.
>>59123600no
>>59123913I don't remember any of that at all, the BW series was so ass I dropped it after the first dozen or so episodes
>>59124045>the simplicity of the pre-split movesetsSimplicity is the right word, they're pretty much all the same.
>>59123913And they ended up with a Flareon and an Eevee winning in the end
>>59124052good hope that means 40gay is dying too
>>59102505
>>59125737>least tainted by goonersThis is a win.
>>59125737>eevee 14k
>>59102782Especially since it only works because you could make everything bulky enough before EVs ruined everything
