munna kick and whatever, how would you fix the writing?
Add more scenes of Munna being kicked
delete the glaringly obvious kanto pandering like charizard bridge, pikachu grass statues and dragonite skeleton
>>59107271Change it to Hypno and have the whole town beat it up.
>>59107271fix?
>>59107271I'd make team plasma encounters more scarce, and have their being evil revealed more slowly over the course of the game. Something like this>Leave initial Accumula town section as is>Make the Plasma grunts less villainous during the Munna scene, rather having them try to capture it normally, suggesting that their Pokemon Liberation agenda is not entirely consistent with the actions of the Grunts.>Remove the kidnapping scene in Wellspring cave.>After the second N battle, entering the Nacarene museum starts a scene where some of the Sages try to leverage their political power to "rightfully" take the Dragonite Skull, leaving when Lenora is obstinate.>Later, at the end of the Pinwheel forest section, have the same Sages tell the Plasma grunts to return the Skull and have them play it off as though their behavior was simple over zealousness, and not done on direct orders.>Remove the kidnapping scene in Castelia City.>Leave the Nimbasa section mostly unchanged, N revealing his connection with Team Plasma.>Rework the cold storage section to be the first instance of team plasma trying to take peoples Pokemon by force, this time with the Sages hinting at a more sinister agenda as their reaction suggests that they are not entirely opposed to the blatant violence of their wayward grunts.>Remove the charge stone cave part, and rework celestial tower section to be about team plasma preaching separation between people and Pokemon insensitively to people grieving their dead mons. Also have the N encounter be on the top of the tower, and have that be what Skyla was occupied with.>Have the Dragon Spiral tower scene be more of a full reveal of their sinister plans as you ascend through the grunt dialogue. From there it can be mostly the same. The main issue really is that they blow their load too early and waste your time reaffirming what you already know.
>>59107271The story was fine, it's the designs that were ass.
>>59107271Just add a scene of some grunts being actually helpful and kind to Pokemon. That’s all you really need to show how it went into B2W2
>>59107271I wouldn’t it’s the best storied Pokemon game to date.
>>59107283>even mentioning gen 1 is panderingWait till I tell you about X and Y.
>>59107271the munna kick is fine. evil and good is not black and white.
>>59107613Why are you bringing that up in a gen 5 thread?
>>59107280Munna soccer spinoff set in Galar
>>59107617because he’s retarded
>>59107617Because it's an example of real pandering. Everything you described are just footnotes. They are barley even footnotes in the game.
>>59107633Make your own thread sis. We are fixing Gen 5 here. And the first step is to remove the pandering.
>>59107635There is no pandering.
>>59107283adding to this, remove the bye bye go go team rocket pandering too
>>59107641Yes there is.
>>59107495This. Also add another rival, your brother/sister in the form of Hilbert/Hilda. They would get the same starter as you, they would be there to fight N at numerous time and end up helping you in a double battle against N and whatshisfaceplasmaleader.
>>59107646Do you you know what pandering is?I honestly think you are too dumb to know.
>>59107271With the ability to retroactively keep B2W2 in mind, actually show us genuinely good members of Team Plasma who stand by the false message of the organization and depict them doing "heroic" things against unaffiliated assholes around Unova. That way it's actually believable that there WERE people who only ever wanted to do good under the Team Plasma umbrella from the very start as told in B2W2.Not only would it balance out the pricks and evils because they could just be seen as insubordinates exploiting their mob mentality, it would make it believable both in and out of universe that maybe Team Plasma has a noble cause and just needs to discipline or filter out the dumbasses first. THEN you can reveal Ghetsis's true colors when deemed appropriate.
>>59107654Do you?
>>59107271It's almost perfect, but I feel the ending wasn't satisfying enough.Ghetsis should have hammered how much N was a fucking idiot for believing him and give his son a mental breakdown. Then after that, hit N's legendary with a mind control ray or something to become even more detestable. And N should actually have done something to redeem himself from his mistakes.
>>59108931To add to that, Ghetsis was kind of an underwhelming final boss. Giving him N's legendary or even Kyurem would be cool to make up for that.And in a game about there being no such thing as black or white morality, he stands out as cartoonishly evil, has a pretty shitty battle theme, and just very shallow. Give him more cool lines, make him more grandiose and give him something to change the fact N is a better final boss than him.
>>59107271Take the gameplay and plot of pso2 ep4 and shove it in to be improved and scrap just about everything of the original.
>>59107271i'd make it so there are obvious signs of neo team plasma in the original BW. team plasma members that are fully aware of ghetsis's plan and the true goal of team plasma and are in on the ruse instead of ghetsis just coming in at the end and going "hahaha i am secretly using team plasma for EVIL". that way you can actually sympathize with N and the "true" members of team plasma that genuinely believe they're doing good. cause as the story currently is, it's just so dislocated, because on one hand it pushes the narrative that N and team plasma are sympathetic, but at the same time they have them kicking munnas and stealing pokemon from literal children who don't even own the pokemon (it's kinda the other way around in that the pokemon takes care of the child of their own volition). i'd also show N and other team plasma members struggle with their beliefs a bit more by trying to rationalize why all pokemon need to be liberated when there's clearly tons of examples of pokemon wanting to be with humans and loving to battle. show more examples of trainers being pricks like silver from gold/silver that make N and team plasma double down on their beliefs. turn it into "a few bad apples spoil the bunch" scenario, cause otherwise we never see any reasons for team plasma to hate trainers so much.also, fucking make anthea and concordia actually exist within the story. cause wtf lol? why did those characters even get created when they did NOTHING. they're set up as if they're gonna be major characters, and yet...
Every time you go back to the Dreamyard there's another Munna getting kicked. Every Gym Leader beaten adds another Team Plasma Grunt joining in. Beating the Elite Four adds in Ghetsis.
>>59107495>>Make the Plasma grunts less villainous during the Munna scene, rather having them try to capture it normally, suggesting that their Pokemon Liberation agenda is not entirely consistent with the actions of the Grunts.>>Remove the kidnapping scene in Wellspring cave.see, i would remove the munna scene. the kidnapping in wellspring cave can be a good introduction to team plasma's villainous antics if the grunts justify it. they took the pokemon from a little girl, they can say she's too young to properly care for it and it would be better off in the wild.that's the biggest point of missed potential with team plasma, the game doesn't do enough to put on the facade of a righteous crusade. obvious questions like "why do the grunts still use pokemon" should have answers because the grunts would have in-universe justifications for these seeming contradictions.the other big issue is that outside of N and Ghetsis, none of the named characters in team plasma do all that much. Ghetsis is a top tier villain but he's too obviously evil, I'd save his introduction for later in the game. In the meantime, have the seven sages speak for team plasma on his behalf. they are the intellectual leaders, they should be traveling the region espousing plasma's virtues.that all being said, BW's story is not as bad as some people would have you believe. I feel many get caught up on the facade, so focused on what they wanted the story to be that they can't judge it for what it is.
>>59107271I think the story is mostly fine.My main changes are- Stopping the player less and the times they are stopped, the dialogue is always important.- Team Plasma being shown doing humanitarian work (i.e. helping sea life)- Keep the Munna scene, though change the dialogue to imply the grunts were already kicking Munna before the player showed up. Give them a line where they believe that no one will believe the player and Bianca.- No Wellspring Cave Grunt battle. Instead Cheren tells you about the cave and how it'd be a good training spot. - Skull stolen from Nacrene happens before player gets there, eventually returned after the Relic Castle encounter (Ghetsis gives it to player, saying it wasn't the legendary)- Ghetsis reprimands the grunt that stole Bianca's Munna- Nimbasa City encounter changed to double battle team up with N where he spots two grunts abusing a Pokémon. He teams up with you in a double battle.- Completely remove Cold Storage encounter. Instead we see N battling a man who abuses his Pokémon and Team Plasma forcibly takes his Pokémon (Krokorok and Axew). You fight that same grunt later on in Dragonspiral Tower using those same Pokémon + Watchog.
>>59109109- Chargestone Encounter is changed to have the grunts being there to help an injured Pokémon, though a grunt will talk about how abusing Pokémon makes them feel stronger.- All encounters after this are pretty much identical, aside from some small dialogue changes to further emphasize the internal schism and eventual split.- After beating the game, during the post game mission where you hunt down the sages, some grunts help you, wishing to make up for the bad things they, and their teammates did. You'd see grunts doing work in the post game areas and some cases of them returning Pokémon or releasing Pokémon they had abused.
>>59107271Just delay the Munna kick until later, so it looks like Team Plasma is a jerk team but has consistent morals. Everything else in the early game shows them fucking people over(stealing the Dragonite skull, taking the little girl's Pokemon,) but nothing goes quite against their morals like kicking the Pokemon.BW2 wasn't really planned at the time, or at least I suspect they didn't really intend to make Neo Plasma while developing BW1, but with retrospective vision, I'd also make it clear that there are many that truly believe in their goals, and then you have the Munna kickers and the like who are just loyalists to Ghetsis with no connection to Plasma's stated intentions.
>>59107495>>59109061Good points. Anyone with any familiarity with the franchise already knows they're evil so you don't need to hammer that point in. One idea I have is for one pokemon from each of N's previous teams come back for his final team. Maybe have N do the initial battle with just the dragon (since he already released everything else) and then have them randomly show up in his moment of desperation and fight for him, thus proving that pokemon do care about humans and willingly fight alongside them. It'd be corny as hell but I'd love that. You can even throw in Darmanitan from the intro cutscene, that pokemon's broken as fuck.
>>59109150>BW2 wasn't really planned at the time, or at least I suspect they didn't really intend to make Neo Plasma while developing BW1In N's Castle you see some grunts that actually believe in N, but it's just at the end of the game sadly
>>59109154i think he should've used pokemon from route 10 and victory road honestly.braviary, mandibuzz, bouffalant, durant, heatmor, and the dragon. easy.and then give ghetsis zoroark instead of bouffalant. zoroark doesn't really suit N.
>>59109109>>59109126Did you take a writing major by any chance?
>>59109240Zoroark fits because it's meant to be deceptive
>>59107271Munna kick is a very Neo Plasma thing to do and proves they were already planning ahead for BW2.
>>59107271focusing entirely on n is the only way to salvage it as a proper subversion of the "omg your rival is the final boss" from KANTOOO but focus on him more as a character, you could honestly just completely write out bianca and cheren (maybe keep one) and just devote more time to n and that would help alot. id like if it was more in a direction where his ideals dont really align with team plasma but hes a sheltered retard that has no idea what hes doing or talking about and just high on the power, would be better if it was played into that hes being used as a puppet, i feel like theres a glimpse of that in the game but it isnt played into well because the story is nonexistent for a game that loves talking and acting like it has a plot, thats the only way i can see his turnaround in the end making much sense. id also like if ghetsis's "betrayal" of n was written competently
>>59107495Reverse this make them obviously evil but have later interaction more sympathetic to their cause with the twist reaffirming their evilness.
>>59109345The early towns should hate Team plasma for their evilness while the late towns should love team plasma for their kind actions with Opelucid City loving them in Black version and hating them in white version.
>>59109248No
>>59107271The basis is fine but the execution is half-assed. Have Team Plasma be proven right by showing people abuse their pokemon, pokemon leaving their trainers or trying to escape them, have the public opnion of Team Plasma be mixed instead of them just being a bunch of idiots. Commit to the idea that they have a good point and have the player's journey prove they're wrong.
Bump
>>59109456>Commit to the idea that they have a good point and have the player's journey prove they're wrongI never got why people think "the bad guy has a good point but is dealing with it in the wrong way, making them a villain" is bad writing, but yeah, you're going to encounter those people by making this change.May be less insufferable than the retards that have a with a smug sense of superiority while attacking the Pokemon game's writing constantly though.
