>Piercing Drill - When the Pokémon uses contact moves, it can hit even targets that are protecting themselves, dealing 1/4 of the damage that the move would otherwise deal. Everything aside from the target’s protective effects is still triggered.
>Spicy Spray - When the Pokémon takes damage from a move, it burns the attacker.
Amazing
Is that it?
>>59122708>Jealousy - Upoon entering battle, if any allies or opponents are Flygon their attack is raised by one stage and they become confused
>>59122708>Reverse powercreep
>>59122708>he actually pierces the heavensVGC threat? Potential nerf to Unseen Fist?
>>59122717It's just a better Flame Body.
>>59122717salaryman turned villainthe glow on the pepper tie is so bad; despite being one of the better new mega arts, it's still weird and the glow is unlike how any previous art showed off a glow
>>59122788>Potential nerf to Unseen Fist?pls
>>59122708For singles having sand rush/force/mold breaker would've been better than this non-existent ability. Unlucky>>59122717>
I think alot of these abilities are going to be geared for doubles. thats where you'd see shit like protect and ragepowder redirecting
>>59123208? Weather abilities are less reliable in singles bc you always have to waste one or two turns minimum setting the weather up
>>59122788>he>50% female
>>59124747Tyranitar is good enough to warrant bringing along. Exu+tyranitar has been a combo since gen5. Also you can sack your weather setter later on to an attack and get it set up for free without needing to then swap out
>>59122708>Horn Drill through ProtectIt'll be fun
>>59122708How does it fold?
>>59122708Look at what he needs to do to have 1/4th of the bear of healthy meta's power
>>59122708>>59122717These abilities are both dogshit. Spicy Spray is actually really good, but Scovillain doesn't have the bulk for it to be useful. It'd be like giving Speed Boost to Munchlax. Great ability, but absolutely the wrong Pokemon to make use of it. Unseen Fist was already a miserably useless ability most of the time. It was basically only useful for hitting Gliscor and in VGC. But it's not like Mega-Excadrill is going to see use in VGC since it won't be useful on Sand teams.
>>59122788I fucking hope
>>59124944>Unseen Fist was already a miserably useless ability most of the time.The fuck are you talking about? It’s mere existence means the opponent can never click Protect.
>>59124944Allegedly it also goes through Substitute and Screens like Infiltrator.
>>59124944If Unseen Fist gets nerfed to deal 1/4th damage, then Mega Excadrill will definitely see use in VGC. It has a great typing, solid bulk, a good speed stat, and it’d have the same ability as Urshifu that raped VGC for years.
>>59124944>Unseen Fist was already a miserably useless ability most of the time.You don't play the game
>>59122788>VGC threat?Probably not, Sand Rush will still be prefered and even then Excadrill + TTar isn't that good aside from certain formats
>>59124939>heshe*
>>59122708>hit Heatran with EQ through Protect>-10 HPepic ability
>>59125014If Unseen Fist gets nerfed, it will see use by virtue of its competition being severally nerfed.
>>59125088More like -55%252 Atk Excadrill-Mega High Horsepower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Normal Heatran: 178-210 (55.1 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>>59124994>>59125107lmao. 1/4th the damage is fucking nothing, you're not wasting your mega slot on this garbage. if you know they're protecting you have better options available like setting up, switching etc. tickling them for <12% isnt worth your mega252 Atk Excadrill-Mega High Horsepower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 186-220 (54.5 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>>59122708Does this mean Protect gets removed?
>>59125008>>59124978Doubles is a weird alt-meta like Pokemon Contests or Rotation Battles. It's not real Pokemon. In real Pokemon, Protect is very rarely seen, usually only on Gliscor and some gimmicky stall strategies. Sometimes you'll see it on Alomomola and other Wish-passing Pokemon, but in 9/10 battles you're going to have a dead ability.
>>59125138I'm assuming it means the other effects of Protect/Detect still proc, IE if your Protect gets hit through it still has a 50% fail chance next turn
>>59125148>how omgonite be talking as GF fill up a dmca to shutdown his pirate website
>>59125138It works exactly like Unseen Fist, except instead of completely bypassing Protect, the move does 25% of what it would done. Protect remains intact, so you still get the damage from Spiky Shield, attack drop from King's Shield, etc
>>59125153That’s how Feint functions, right? So this is just a passive Feint?
>>59125176Well that’s lame.
>>591251281/4th damage is more than no damage. It’s also damage, which means you break focus sashes and Pokemon that are at low HP.
>>59122717>Thai Pepper>Tie PepperFuck you GF I snorted
>>59124944>It's useless>It's only used in the main format?
>>59125159DMCA wouldn't do shit lmao. Simulators are legally protected. The worst Game Freak could do is force Smogon to stop using Pokemon assets and the Pokemon name. Pokemon Showdown would become Porkyman Showdown and all the sprites and names would be altered to not infringe on the IP while everything else stays the same. Then someone would just offer a mod that alters everything back to how it used to be so anyone who cares about the minute, legally distinct, differences can have them changed back.Ever wondered why Paheal changed Pokemon to Porkyman on their website? Because Game Freak told them to stop using the Pokemon name, so they changed it to be legally distinct and nothing else happened.
>>59125202The main format is 6v6 singles. Always has been, always will be. It's the 3 stocks, no items Smash Bros match of Pokemon. Nintendo can pretend like everyone plays Time even though all the comp players play on Stock.
>>59122717>amazing tank ability on someone that can get oneshotted by stronger mons without defensive EVs>special attackers give 0 fucks about burn and sometimes they LOVE getting free burn which means no other statuses can fuck themi like when megas gets unique new ability instead of existing ones but this one ain't it
>>59122788>VGC threatAll these Shiny new toys still can't compete with Mega Mence. The only one I see actually showing up is M-Froslass for counter-meta teams and Garchomp-Z which is absolute cancer even without knowing its ability. Blastoise is also up in the air depending if it got Shell Smash back
>>59125208>implying gamefreak won’t just cause a protracted legal battle to monetarily bludgeon Showdown into submission
>>59125234The only other ones I’ve seen people really discussing aside from what you mentioned have been Mega Metagross, Mega Gengar and Mega Mawile. There were people talking about Meganium as if it was the second coming of Christ for a while, but then people remembered Mega Gengar exists. If these 3 plus Mega Froslass and Mega Chomp Z are the only useable ones in Champions for VGC I will laugh my ass off but even then I still think Mega Chomp Z will fall off at some point.
>>59125299If Smogon stopped using the IP there's nothing GF could sue them over.
>>59125310>>59125234Zard Y, Fug (in restricted formats), Alakazam (on Psychic Terrain teams), and Heatran, depending on its ability, will also see usage.
>>59125310Champ Z just doesn't have enough utility to stick around in doubles. There's too much speed control there to abuse it's insane speed compare to singles where it'll sweep. Froslass will stick as one of the big megas there, it can pivot to defensive versions too with snow boost/willo/icy wind/aurora. Being able to cuck salamence is a big dealChandelure becomes a vgc staple if it also gets shadow tag like everyone expects. Unlike gengar it has considerable bulk for doubles while having a higher sp.atk too. Base speed is less relevant in doubles because you have icy wind/tailwind/trick room/fake out etc able to help you work around your speedRaichu if it gets electric terrain will see use eventually when they allow the paradoxmons back, it's a better tapu koko in terms of support Staraptor, heatran, meowstic have potential as well. Contrary/defiant raptor is hard to counter plus it's initial intimidate, heatran is the strongest trick room mega now. Meowstic has the stats and every support move available, with any decent ability it should be used
>>59125391Did the leaks say Chandelure would have shadow tag?
>>59125416The leaks are missing a few megas like chandelure/heatran so we're not entirely sure what they'd get. Shadow tag is fitting and it used to have it as an old HA, so it's become a fan fav they hopefully see happen
>>59125365It doesn’t matter how legal it is when a big ass company can just slap you down with infinite legal fees. People aren’t going to deal with it, they’re just going to accept it and move on.
>>59125425>Golisopod is getting Tough Claws>that typing>those defenses>that attackdear fucking lord that's horrifying, it even has solid STAB for the type change as well
>>59125502It'll be strong in UU. It's still outclassed in OU and practically useless in VGC thanks to a certain nu-Gen Fire-type Starter.
>>59125365All they need to do is spam bullshit lawsuits until the people running the shit can't even afford their legal fees and give up. It's fucking Pokemon. They have the money and the lack of human decency to do it.
>>59125676They wouldn't have a cause to do so and would get stopped by Anti-SLAPP laws.
>>59125685You got a lot of faith in the US justice system. I hope it isn't misplaced.
>>59125747It’s definitely misplaced
>>59125425>close combat contrary mega staraptoroh no
>>59125425>Close Combat Roost filler x2 negroniThis shit is gonna be so retarded
>>59125784>>59125814I have a feeling it'll be defiant instead for that reason.. which is considerably worse.. Also they really only give contrary to mememons, staraptor is an actually good user of it
>>59125896Doesn't defiant only activate if your opponent lowers your attack? Close combat wouldn't activate it then?
>>59125896It's contrary
>>59125939no but self decreases don't proc. so defog would but cc wouldn't
1/4th damage from protect doesn't matter if its Horn Drill and does all of the health regardlessI imagine people will just pack horn drill on VGC Excadrill if it sees use, which should be funny
Is contrary good on mega staraptor?
>>59126124Close combat gives +1 atk/def, and it's fighting/flying now. so spamming that would be really good if it's legit
>>59122708>contacti can't even run eq and stone edge
>>59126143CC is def/spdef, superpower is atk/def. It doesn't get superpower, just CC.But I can't imagine it'll get contrary. It'll absolutely have defiant.
>>59125128252 Atk Excadrill-Mega Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 48-60 (31.3 - 39.2%) -- 88.8% chance to 3HKOI set Rock Slide to 19 base power for that to simulate it being 25% damage. That's still very good chip damage against a meta threat.
>>59126188Your contact bro?
>>59126188Rock slide would do 0% as it is not a contact move.In fact, excadrill does not have a contact rock move. At all. There are only a handful of contact rock moves at all in fact, and they're all either signature moves or really rare, like headsmash.
>>59125128The damage isn't as important as the control it gives by being able to guarantee damage and pin down slots. We saw this a lot in SWSH with dynamax moves, if a weak Pokemon was on low health it was just a sitting duck.But the problem with Excadrill is that half of its important moves aren't affected by the ability (EQ, rock moves), unlike Urshifu who just got its whole movepool buffed.
>>59126185Oh yeah it's defs, pair with the new bulk it would be very tanky. but you then kinda kill yourself with brave bird after.. defiant sounds more in theme but boy does that suck ass for staraptor. it would be weaker than reckless, even the +1 atk from intimidate wouldn't be worth bringing it to vgc over other megas. it would be absolutely worthless. why i hope it gets contrary (or even scrappy) so it can have something that works
>>59126222Dynamax moves were 130 bp so even through protect it was 32. but they were primarily used for their additional effects to set up Excadrills best options are iron head (20 bp) and high horsepower (23 bp). Those are purely for damage. You can't abuse it like kanga does with power up punch/body slam using secondary effects even on the weaker bp. Using your mega in vgc for 20-23 base power moves if you predict a protect is really really bad compare to other mega options. All these newer players really are unaware how oppressive the "meta" megas were back then. These halfassed megas like excadrill wont make it. Even megas that are considered meta like lopunny, alakazam, zard x, gyarados, swampert, sableye, lucario etc all flopped there too. Everyone else had practically 0 results. Your mega stone is WAY too valuable to waste on sub-par stuff like excadrill, feraligatr, meganium etc. You have to judge new megas harshly
>>59126283So basically gamefreak is retarded and fucked up againfantastic
>>59122708There is no logical reason for why they gave it dragonize instead of dragons maw. 180 bp outrage would've been amazing. All of the normal moves it was given are inferior too it. 120 bp no drawbacks dragon claw would've been nice too.
>>59122796Flame body is already a good ability, and this is A LOT better than flame body. It is guaranteed burn and it isn't limited to contact moves. I guess the only downside is that almost always contact moves are physical attackers and those are the ones you want getting burned. You may not want special attackers getting burned if you plan on hitting them with other statuses.
>>59126317The logical reason is that they wanted the mega to be a humiliation ritual on all fronts, and that should be obvious
>>59126298After all the old megas stomping, and then ultra beasts / paradox mons being perfectly minmaxed. They really should've put more effort into the new batch of ZA megas to keep up with powercreep. Even ones like dragonite and delphox are unlikely to see any play compare to the competitionFroslass and potentially greninja are looking to be the only two worth their weight currently as your mega stone slot. The rest look like filler. Can't give a full opinion on ones without known abilities yet but holy shit they fucked up their statspreads so unbelievably bad on most, it's like they didn't even try..
>>59126283I'd argue that meganium hs some use, but yes you need to treat the potential of not using Mega mence, Gengar or Metagross as a downside.
>>59126317The funny thing is that it’s not even good with dragon’s maw regardless
Why did Scovillain gain ATTACK if its job is to get hit?
>>59126339because 90% of Gamefreak’s devs are braindead baboons
>>59126328Even 3 of the big ones you mentioned there all donk meganium. Doesn't have a great match up into other strong ones like zard y, froslass, delphox or greninja either. In a rain team you'd rather swampert or even dragonite so meganium cheating weather doesn't really help with much when it's easily ohko'd by the best performing megas in the format. I don't really see a niche meganium has when it has that much going against it.
>>59126339>Wants to get hit>Has no healing outside giga drain>Literally the grass/fire pokemon with sun abilities>>>No synthesisI laugh every time
>>59126349I'm surprised the mega wasn't grass/dragon or something
>>59126327> it's like they didn't even try.Why should they? These are second string megas. The Pokémon that really matter got their megas in Gen 6 and even among them there was a clear hierarchy? >>59126321Indeed, it is an excellent ability. Problem is scovillain’s suck even as a mega and its moving is middling at best. Hilariously abilities were the only good thing about Scovillain. It would have probably preferred to have kept Chorophyll or Moody.
>>59122717>>59124944If you max invested in physical bulk, it's actually servicable... or it would be if it wasn't the only grass type not to learn synthesis/morning sun. The only possible thing it might be able to do is rage powder bullshit, as unlike other users, it can ohko amoongus
>>59125367I’ll admit I completely forgot about Heatran but that’s probably because I always forget Heatran exists despite how good its base form is. Alakazam is in a very tricky spot because any decent mon with Sucker Punch completely fucks it and there’s enough Pokemon with it that it probably won’t see play outside the initial weeks.>>59125391Chandalure I could see making a comeback as its base form was used by enough people during 2014 (I was people) and I agree a good enough ability could save it, but Mega Gengar is still going to be very hard to beat due to its stupidly wide support movepool (from memory, Chandelures is more offensive oriented). Froslass speed-tying with Mega Mence does make me very interested in seeing which one is ultimately going to get a one-up over the other. Unfortunately, Mega Heatran is not the best TR Mega when Mega Camerupt exists. Earth Power + Sheer Force + base speed of 20 and a very good SpAtk means nothing that isn’t named Shuckle is going to beat it and that x4 weakness to Ground that Heatran has is still going to fuck it from all sides, Mega or not.
>>59126521I was probably valuing heatran too high because it can also run heavy slam. In terms of sp.atk output it's calcing to be 10% less per attack compare to camerupt. I doubt it'll get an amazing ability like earth eater or something to carry it, probably just flame body again. Checked through chandelure/gengars movesets too and chandelure doesn't learn any utility gengar doesn't already have.. Gengar even has destiny bond, disable perish song, haze, twave and nasty plot in addition. With some bulk it can survive mega gengars shadow ball and ohko it back with one, same with gholdengo's. All depends if it gets shadow tag or not, without it wouldnt see any use but with it will because that's just so strong in general
>>59126521>Alakazam is in a very tricky spot because any decent mon with Sucker Punch completely fucks itAnon, what do you think Psychic Terrain does besides making Expanding Force hit like a truck?
>>59126690To be fair, most people want it up to have Expanding Force be butt-fuckingly broken. Chronic pain meds were in effect when I responded though so pic very related for me at that point.
>>59125208Simulators are legally protected? That's crazy. What counts as a simulator? Is showdown a simulator?
>>59126339>>59126340>>59126349Simple, they want the flavor of one head specializing in physical and the other in special. The problem however is that said flavor now overrides function to a crippling degree
>>59126321I'm not disagreeing that it's a good ability, I just think straight upgrades are boring.
>>59122717>Ursaluna (holding a Life Orb) used Scratch!And yet it's still inferior to Bloodmoon.
Anons, correct me if I'm wrong. Mega Excadrill ability:1. Hits targets using Protect or Detect, dealing 1/4 of the damage that the move would otherwise deal2. Breaks screens (does it deal full damage there?)3. Bypasses substitutes (does it deal full damage or only 1/4 of the damage? Does it break the substitute too?)So Piercing Drill would be a nerfed Unseen Fist + Infiltrator combo
>>591267901 Yes2 No3 NoIt's just a nerfed unseen fist. No infiltrator aspects. Real shitty ability for excadrill to get
>>59126800Tieba leaks confirmed Piercing Drill breaks substitutes and screens too
>>59126829The same leak that didn't mention it was nerfed and wasn't confident on many details of other abilities. I wouldn't take anything as guaranteed.
>>59125208>It's a 'playing a Pokemon game' simulator
>>59122708>It's no longer a sand sweeper >It can't even run earthquake or rock slide or stone edgeIn the trash.
>>59126918lmao what? It can still run all those moves
>>59126317>Two potential abilities that would fit with it the gigantic retarded fake jaws>Give it neither of them o i am laffin
>>59126974It doesn't want to, because it would be conceding your ability.
>>59126317Dragonize is better for Doubles and still arguably for Singles.Outrage is terrible in Doubles since it targets randomly. And in Singles Outrage can lead to easy revenge kills since you’re locked into it and a Fairy type can come in to ruin your day.Additionally you also get Facade, Body Slam, and Slash (Doubles with Dragon Cheer support), not just Double-Edge. This provides good utility for Feraligatr since you can’t burn it with Facade, and Body Slam can paralyze switch-ins.
>>59126317Having your gameplan revolve around outrage fucking sucks dude. Getting locked into outrage just means free switch ins for any fairies, all you'd be doing is have Gatr run dragon claw which is just worse that being able to use Dragon Double Edge
>tfw mega meganium has one of the better new abilitiesSave us epic gamers from the gamer holocaust, megamence-chan.
They should have let Excadrill keep Mold Breaker and gave Emboar Piercing Spear
Why don't they make Excadrill fat enough to use heavy slam?
Chestnaught will get Fur Coat
>>59126790>>59126800If it has infiltrator then it's solid overall, otherwise it's okay in VGC and borderline useless in singles. I doubt they'll give it infiltrator either because of how meta-defining Urshifu has been. Even with the nerf I don't think they'd give it any extra bells and whistles.
>>59127178It still has Bulletproof, get with the times
If this shit gets Contrarian and not his own unique ability they will nerf Serperior and every other Contrary user, eventually.
>>59127178they announced it gets bulletproof like a month and a half ago
>>59127495Just like how Mega Salamence ultimately fucked over Sylveon and Aurorus.The innocent always get punished for something they had no involvement in.
>>59126750Yes?
>>59125208Simulators are protected only to a point. GF can file for loss of sales due to Showdown existing and use data from their concurent playercounts as proof of that measure. Which could force the owners of Smogon into having to pay that way. This is also only one of many avenues that GF could go after them. If they wanted to be really petty, they could go for much worse things.
>>59127554>GF can file for loss of sales due to Showdown existing and use data from their concurent playercounts as proof of that measure.even middling pokemon games sell tens of millions of unitsa few thousand people using a battle sim isn't eating into their profit margins, especially since the venn diagram of simulator players and buyers is practically a circle (notable exceptions like blunder notwithstanding, of course)
>>59127554Showdown only simulates one aspect of the games. There's a reason they go after full fangames but have never gone after simulators.
>>59127098But Mold Breaker is more useful......
>>59127578not on emboar it isn'tthe only levitate mon it can actually threaten is base form rotom, and it wouldn't want to hit that with earthquake when it can just use flare blitz instead
>>59127570Showdown right now serves a purpose for them because their VGC playerbase often use it to test for official tours. Champions means it has worn out that use and they can try and force that group into paying for that same type of deal.>>59127561>middling pokemon games sell tens of millions of unitsThis is objectively false for Pokemon spin-offs and will be even moreso false for Champions. This also doesn't matter because they can use bigger game sales to prove they still lost some level of sales.
>>59127587There are four different abilities that specifically impede Fire attacks, and one of them is on another new Mega.
>>59127594>This is objectively false for Pokemon spin-offsthe only spinoffs this applies to are ones without the mechanics being simulated by showdown, so they're completely irrelevant to this conversation>and will be even moreso false for Champions.>game is freewow>This also doesn't matter because they can use bigger game sales to prove they still lost some level of sales.>having more money proves we have less money, please kill showdown for us judgesure thing buddy>>59127597and how many pokemon that have one of those abilities could emboar threaten with flare blitz should the ability be neutralized
>>59127617Mega VenusaurSnorlaxMiltankHariyamaGrumpigWalreinBronzongMamoswineHeatranMega HeatranAraquanidAppletunDachsbunBaxcaliburMega BaxcaliburAlso it would still be Not Very Effective, but it means Chandelure, Mega Chandelure and Ceruledge aren't immune to both of Emboar's STABs.
>>59127659>Snorlax>Miltank>Walrein>Bronzong>Mamoswine>Heatran>Mega Heatran>Baxcalibur>Mega Baxcaliburemboar could already hit these with close combatthe only other one on this list that has ever had any kind of competitive relevance is mega venusaur, who can threaten emboar out with earth powernot a great case for emboar using mold breaker well desu, especially in comparison to pokemon with good support movepools like tinkaton or strong damage dealers like excadrill
>>59127587>not on emboar it isn'tyou don't understand what move Emboar has that other Mold Breakers don't>Sucker Punch for priority>Drain Punch for recovery>Will-o-Wisp (shuts down Bax set ups and switch-ins)>can spread Yawn making it horrible for almost any switch-in>Flare Blitz>Flame Charge boosting its speed, cant shut this down>EQdoubt it'll be defining because it has a glaring flaw against prominent ghosts but it will pull its weight, definitely the best out of the new starters
>>59127956Aside from the fact that there is no ability that blocks Drain Punch, none of these scenarios matter in a real game between 2 competent players.You “could” Yawn Hatterene, but you instead could Heat Crash or Heavy Slam Hatterene anyways. Especially if got an actual useful ability like Tough Claws. And even if you do Yawn it, the Hatterene player can just switch out.
>>59127956>definitely the best out of the new startersmega meganium is going to be better regardless of how you feel about mega emboar.
>>59127982The entire point of Yawn is to force a switch, and hit whatever tries to come in.
>>59125213Main format is doubles senpai.
The funny thing about Mold Breaker is that it neutralises Dry Skin users taking extra damage from fire attacks...
>>59128104But think about the scald synergy!
>>59126317>252+ Atk Dragon's Maw Feraligatr-Mega Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Abomasnow in Snow: 145-172 (37.8 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO>252+ Atk Dragonize Feraligatr-Mega Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Abomasnow in Snow: 175-207 (45.6 - 54%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKOWhat the fuck are you talking about? Dragons Maw is actually weaker in practice
>>59128148He’s a singles player he wants to unga bunga Outrage without having to deal with double edge recoil
>>59128161Recoil is better than being locked into Outrage
>>59128161singles players don’t unga bunga with outrage anymore anon
I can't believe the bar for a good mega in VGC is>equal to or better than the 700 BST mixed attacking monster that turns normal moves into flying moves, and then makes those even strongerWhat the fuck GameFreak
>>59128190That’s what happens when high opportunity cost is involved
>>59128185Correct, Loaded Dice + Scale Shot is actually stronger 75% of the time
>>59128070What sounds better?>Yawning a Hatterene that gets to Trick Room then Healing Wish afterwards anyways so Sleep never happensor>OHKOing Hatterene before it can even Trick Room with Heavy Slam
>>59128161Then you could just pick Thrash instead of Double Edge
>>59128255This isn't Generation V anymore.
Another gimmicky Mega-Excadrill use case:As long as the ability doesn't remove the protection, you could pair Mega Excadrill with a, say, Speed Boost Pokemon like Espathra or Blaziken. Then first turn they can Protect while you hit them with a Super Effective move like X-Scissor or Aerial Ace. They take minimal damage while also activating Weakness Policy from complete safety.
>>59128190They had no real idea what they were doing as far as comp balance until Gen 8, we told you megas were a trash fire mechanic due to the opportunity cost for years but the wider English speaking Pokemon community can’t let go of the season 1 anime and culture so Smogon 6v6 and its tiering system dominates the discourse here. It took peoples Pokemania era starters getting mogged megas in a brand new game for people to see it I guess
>>59128378>They had no real idea what they were doing as far as comp balance*GameFreak can’t balance for shit.
>>59128378They actively started balancing in gen 6 with stat redistribution and imo gen 6 is the best comp format. Between it and 5 are my favorites.>>59128380also this
>>59128387>Gen 6 is the best comp format>CHALKNo
>>59127982>Aside from the fact that there is no ability that blocks Drain PunchTrue but it prevents you from taking chip from Liquid Ooze.
>>59128421Not that guy, but CHALK?
>>59128378>MUH SMOGON6v6 singles how every game is played except the gamecube ones.Play.clap emojiThe.clap emojiGames.clap emoji
>>59128422Ah yes, fucking Liquid Ooze Swalot. How could I forget about such a metagame staple?
>>59128424In Gen 6 competitive teams had basically 5 hard locked slots: Cresellia, Heatran, Amoongus, Landorus, Kangaskhan.
>>59128425We've had 3v3 singles since gen 1 with Stadium.
>>59127495It wouldnt even be broken>Best you can do is buff your defenses>No offensive presence like leaf storm or superpower does>Your next best move is bravebird which deals % of your own HP ignoring those def buffs >Loses normal type so facade will hit like a wet noodle if you ever get burned>Considerably slower than all the other strong megas around Watch it get defiant anyway and be utter trash tho
>>59128441>Cresellia>Kangaskhanwhat the fuck are you smoking? kanga was banned and I'm pretty sure cres wasn't even ou at all
>>59128464You use Bulk Up first, then go Mega
>>59128464>No offensive presence like leaf storm or superpower doesClose Combat with STAB and 140 atk that gets harder to kill every turn is a pretty fucking good offensive presence.
>>59128425And yet it isnt the official competitive format.
>>59128469CHALK was in VGC. Not in smogon.Very funny they had to ban kangaskhan on singles though.
>>59128421Gen 6 was the best format, but before ORAS.
>>59128464>>59128487252 Atk Staraptor-Mega Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 103-122 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- 36.4% chance to 3HKO252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Celebi: 74-87 (21.7 - 25.5%) -- 0.7% chance to 4HKOClose Combat does about 40% more than Leaf Storm (35.7/25.5 = 1.4)
>>59128511Now look at that Leaf Storm the second time Serperior uses it, it has shit Sp.A, the first Leaf Storm never pulls numbers
>>59128472Yeah wasting 1-2 turns setting up worked out well for sharpedo huh..>>59128487In terms of vgc, a lot of popular mons are resistant to fighting. With megas returning like salamence, gengar, froslass, zard y there's even more resisting or immune to it. Pair that with all the protecting and half the time you're not even accomplishing anything with staraptor. It's really not as oppressive as you think.Singles sure maybe, even there you're comparing it to other mega sweepers too. A chomp Z, greninja, gengar, alakazam doing nasty plot or salamence, bax dd or blaziken sd or blastoise shell smash. Staraptor really doesn't compete with +1def/spdef spam vs that
>>59128521Or even using an item like Life Orb or Miracle Seed. And Serperior is faster. Granted Fighting/Flying is better offensively than pure Grass, it still says a lot that Serperior is only doing a little less with items that Mega Staraptor can’t hold, then boosts its SpA too.
>>59127523And Mega Pinsir twice.
>>59128511What >>59128521 said+2 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Celebi: 147-174 (43.1 - 51%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO+4 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Celebi: 220-260 (64.5 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO>Two staraptor CCs is max 71.4%>Two serperior leaf storms is max 76.5>Three staraptor CCs is max 107.1%>Three serperior leaf storms is max 152.7%Even after 2 uses leaf storm pulls ahead and it keeps scaling after. You boost your defenses for what? To survive a hit from mega greninja or salamence? Even if you roost it's still taking you to 50% each hit at +3 and +5. Unlike zamazenta or garg you can't then turn those boosts into offence with body press, it's just defensive to be defensive, you'll eventually buckle since you can't do anything back but roost spam 252 SpA Protean Greninja-Mega Ice Beam vs. +3 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor-Mega: 134-158 (43 - 50.8%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO252 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. +5 0 HP / 0 Def Staraptor-Mega: 146-174 (46.9 - 55.9%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO
>>59128510Second this. As batshit insane as Mega Kang was, it felt like there was at least an attempt in XY to give the Megas a similar playing field even if some of those attempts were janky as hell. Mega Heracross is what comes to mind as an immediate example: its base form was better but the Mega still had a niche place in Smogon Singles. The second Salamence and Metagross got Megas in ORAS and stole Mega Charizard X and Mega Pinsir’s abilities, it invalidated the XY Megas that weren’t Kang (and Mawile for the fringe use it still saw in 2015) and all of the other ORAS Megas that weren’t called Mega Swampert on rain teams (and those weren’t the best to start with). I am genuinely hoping Mega Froslass is able to knock Megagross and Salamence down a peg so that it gives some other Megas (both singles and VGC) a proper chance to be used.
>>59128584>Second this. As batshit insane as Mega Kang was, it felt like there was at least an attempt in XY to give the Megas a similar playing fieldIt literally doesn’t matter as long as even one mega is the best then the entire mechanic’s relation to the meta is defined by that mega
>>59128584It'll shut down salamence a bit by fact of being able to tank it and ohko it back every time, while offering support utility like veil or willo along side it, but metagross no. It's 2 hit by bullet punch under snow, so it can't even outspeed and 2 hit with shadowball first. Meteor mash/heavy slam always ohkos too if you ever let it do that >252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Froslass-Mega in Snow: 168-198 (59.7 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>>59128568I wasn’t disagreeing. Only doing 40% more than Serperior is not impressive when Serperior boosts its SpA for every Leaf Storm. I posted it to make a point.
>>59128607>It literally doesn’t matter as long as even one mega is the best then the entire mechanic’s relation to the meta is defined by that megaNot really.The XY Megas had tons of diversity, even with Mega Kang being the best one. You still saw plenty of other Megas getting used.Plus that same logic can be applied to everything, yet we still see people not use Incineroar, Calyrex, Miraidon, Koraidon, or Urshifu
>>59128747My bad I should've replied to the guy calling 140 bp close combats an offensive presenceLike yeah any mon can do that with stab lol..
>>59128779>we still see people not use Incineroar, Calyrex, Miraidon, Koraidon, or UrshifuThe only reason someone isn’t using those pokemon is because they’re using pokemon that counters them, and if their opponent isn’t using them, then they will
>>59127956this guy thinks emboar can run 20 moves at once lmao
They should make ice type thunderclap and solve the Megamence problem
