But I thought campaignshitters told me Ice-type is bad? Especially when they're slow and defensive Ice-types?
>>59130265Isn't Calyrex like an 800bst shill legendary? Like literally shilling, it existed to sell the first ever DLC.
Ice types were bad, which is why they buffed the hell out of hail, now they're pretty good.
Thats a psychic type
Ice types are rare so the good ones were few and far betweenLegendaries break the pattern but we've also got shit like Baxcalibur and Galarian Darmanitan in recent games
>>59130265>campaignshittersyawnfag
>yet another blatant flamewar thread where kojo calls everyone a campaign shitter for the sake of it because he always wants to win an argument that he started and the mods won't do anything because they're compromised
>>59130294>everyoneNo, just people who blatantly don’t play PvP and are bad at the game.
>mods
>>59130265>>59130297
Campaigncattle have always been poopoo at pokemon
>>59130281>Ice types were bad, which is why they buffed the hell out of hailSnow isn't that much of a buffI preferred having the chip damage
>>59130265Yes, a type that has no resistances besides itself is bad.
>>59130297We get it, you're into children and animals.
>>59130309No chip is a buff for Snow teams since only Ice types are immune to it and that means your entire team would be pelt by it if they aren’t Ice or wearing Safety Goggles/Overcoat
>>59130321>inb4 kojo responds with something about normal to move the goalpost
>>59130325That isn’t a downside if the same thing is happening to my opponent’s team.
>>59130265No, a type that’s super-effective against 5 different types and access to the best status condition and 1HKO move in the game is good.
>>59130341>inb4 sagie responds with something about those not counting to move the goalpost
>>59130341>>59130344thanks for admitting defeat
>>59130321>>59130328thanks for admitting defeat
>>59130309Based retard
>>59130358Based campaignshitter
>>59130265be careful, the faggot janitor running this board is a campaignshitter who hates that term so much that he bans you for using it
>>59130385The only reason people get mad at the term is because it’s so succinct.
>>59130331It is since its much harder to build your team around to even take advantage of. With Sand, you have Rock, Steel, Ground, Overcoat, Sand Rush, Magic Guard, and Safety Goggles. Hail was more limiting as instead of 3 types immune it was 1 type, the rarest type, and one with a ton of weaknesses too. So you couldn’t put Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Landorus-T, Tyrantiar on the same team together and cover each other’s weaknesses.
>>59130362Preferring negligible chip damage over massive stat buffs is kino. Tired of people sacrificing SOVL for viability.
>>59130265Therads abpout the ice type are like the perfect encapsulation of the deranged autism that runs rampant in this board
>>59130349>>59130362thanks for admitting defeat
>>59130391??? You don’t need to “build” anything around it except simply not using Focus Sash. Do you think anyone who throws Tyranitar on their team forces themselves to only use Ground/Steel/Rock types?
>>59130418>He doesn't know
>>59130435No need to project your lack of knowledge on the game.
>>59130265>slow and defensive>Ice Rider Calyrex with its 165 attack and base 120 power STAB spread move
>>59130407You also forgot the Physical/Special split.
>>59130452It has high defense stats and low speed, therefore it’s defensive according to campaignshitter logic
>>59130463Oh that is not autism that is sheer contrariarism
>>59130418Anon, if you’re not using Ice types yourself, you don’t get the advantage since both sides are taking damage. It’s an even playing field. That’s why Sand stacked a few Rocks, Grounds, and Steels. To make sure they were actually at some advantage.
>>59130407in that it's entirely a single nutcase with far too many chips on his shoulder
>>59130469Low speed is High speed in Trick Room, which it gets.
>>59130487Running Snow Warning means I automatically have 1 less Pokemon on my team that takes Hail damage than my opponent, and I’m going into each game with the knowledge that Focus Sash won’t work while my opponent isn’t. Therefore there is always inherent advantage. You don’t play the game.
>>59130418>Putting T-tar on a non Sand-centered teamBased retard
>>59130439>Making it this obvious he doesn't knowJust say you have no clue what's historically ran alongside Ttar it'll save us time.
>>59130510>you can only put TTar on a sand focused team because....uh....my arbitrary campaignshitter rules said so
Why did Ray Rizzo put Hydreigon on his team? He should have listened to campaignshitter-kun on /vp/ who wet his pants against Cynthia and thinks XY is too easy telling you you're not allowed to ever run anything that isn't immune to Sandstorm alongside Tyranitar.
>>59130265>Calyrex, a literal DLC Legendary being good, means Dewgong is good
>>59130581>Zacian, a literal box Legendary being good, means Granbull is goodyep I guess we better buff Fairy type because it's bad
>>59130581>even when ice detractors try to cherrypick a shitmon to prove their point they still failKEK
>>59130589>fanfic meta platformBut I thought Smogon and Showdown didn't count?
>>59130595>and Showdownyou made this part up as a coping mechanism.
>>59130600Is that not literally Showdown in your image? You know, Showdown, the platform primarily played by Smoggies who don't actually play the game and just seethe at calculators and spreadsheets and ban everything they don't like from their playhouse of pretend?
>>59130608Showdown isn't the problem. Fanficshit is the problem. Hope this helps.
>>59130612Yes, and Showdown VGC is still fanfic shit because it's where Smoggies who'd get raped and cry about getting raped get to play pretend instead of playing on official venues against people who have the serious potential to become the actual players who are going to VGC Internationals and claiming championship trophies.
>>59130623the top players practice in showdown vgc under pseudonyms, this is well known
World Champion of Pokemon WolfieVGC plays on Showdown doebeit
>>59130635>fanfic website encourages writing fanfic scenarios that never happenedNope! Serious competitive players have completely private training matches against only their most trusted confidants who have zero interest in competing in the championships. It's just like how no one ever gets a chance to train to deal with Hungrybox's Jigglypuff in Melee and are instead cast to a trial by fire in the heat of the moment because he famously never publicly plays outside of tournaments.
>>59130649Why do you always sign your posts like a tard?
>>59130649You are NOT supposed to bring him up.
>>59130568You can tell this isn’t the real kujo cause he’s trying to shill a shitmon from unova
>>59130691But doesn't yawnie hate gen 5? Why would he shill a mon from shartnova?
>>59130612>fanfic website isn’t the problemok omgonig
>>59130697because it’s not him
>>59130701>sagefag lying yet again by saying yawnfag is kojoWow, shocker! Who would've guessed?
>>59130568>Anon says it's a good idea to put some Rock, Steel, and Ground types in a sand team>Posts Ray Rizzo's sand team with... Rock, Steel, and Ground typesYeah you showed him
>He's the shartnova fan!>No he's the shartnova fan!this all started because of ice type factually not being a shit type btw
>>59130722Ah yes Rotom, Hydregon, and Cresselia my favorite Rock/Ground/Steel types.
>>59130726That's what happens when THE shtarnova guy is also the campaignshitter guy.
>>59130733>austist too retarded to see an obvious Sand team for a Sand Team because not every Pokémon is immune to SandIf you look at that team and think, "yeah T-tar was just slotted in there coverage" you're beyond saving.
>>59130761Ok then my team that has Ninetales on it and no other Ice types is a Hail team. Glad we agree, retard.
>>59130792>half the team actively benefitting is the same as only one member benefitting and the rest being at a disadvantage
>>59130274It’s 680 BST, aka the same as Mewtwo/Lugia/Rayquaza/Giratina who are all complete dogshit in VGC.
>>59130933Because of powercreep, you had no reason to use those guys over Groudon and Kyogre, who dominated the weather and could sling out ludicrously powerful Eruptions and Water Spouts, moves that hit both opponents simultaneously.Even Mega Rayquaza wasn't that big a deal for VGC because that meant you couldn't use Primal Groudon/Kyogre, so it was better to just use Mega Salamence alongside the Primals.
>>59130265>needs Ice Rider to prove the pointReal shame Shadow Rider exists
>>59130842What disadvantage? Are we playing your fanfic campaignshitter version of the game where Hail only affects one side of the field?
>>59131140It's a drawback regardless of whether the other side suffers or not. That's the entire point of Weather and why Hail sucks, because you'll only get one mon that benefits from it while the rest would rather be without it. If you play with the mentality that "Well my Hail is only for Ninetales and my Sand is only for T -tar then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what weather is meant to achieve as an mechanic, being to affect all pieces on the field for a duration regardless of which side they're on. The fact that you cannot understand that "it's fine if 5/6 mons take Hail chip damage as long as the opponent does too is absolutely horrible action economy." and so far you've only proven that it's worse than Sand in every way, which we already agree on.
>>59130660Turn your monitor on
>>59131167>It's a drawback regardless of whether the other side suffers or notWhy? Is it because you’re thinking like a campaignshitter and worried about chip damage adding up from multiple NPC fights? The actual game doesn’t work that way.
Campaignshitter tip of the day: Rillaboom is a bad Pokemon because it puts you at a disadvantage from healing your opponent every turn
>>59131199>I preferred Hail to Snow because I like chip damage!>but actually chip damage sucks!Make up your god damn mind
>>59131206You're not using Rillaboom to set Grassy Terrain to heal it and its allies, if that was the point then it would indeed be shit since it also heals your opponent.You're using it for that +1 priority Grass-boosted Grassy Glide.
>>59131237Imagine trying to reason with a mentally ill subhuman beast.
>>59131209No one said chip damage sucks except for you and your fanfic you keep trying to force.>>59131237Yes just like you're using Hail for breaking Sash, Aurora Veil, accurate Blizzards, Snow Cloak, Slush Rush, etcYou're not very smart, are you campaign shitter?
>>59131287Then what was your point here >>59131199 if not to try to downplay chip damage?>SashNiche in VGC, and if you insist it is very common then you have also robbed yourself of using it on your own team.>accurate BlizzardsBlizzard gets a 30% accuracy buff, this is nowhere near Grassy Glide's 50% Damage buff +1 Priority buff>Snow Cloak, Slush Rush,Cannot be run if you run "Hail just for your Snow Warning Ninetales", if you have these abilities on your team together with Ninetales then you are making a dedicated Hail team, which is what you specifically said you weren't doing. >Aurora Veil,The only reason anyone ever attempted Hail teams, and GF's first attempt at making it not shit, but realizing it weren't enough decided to rework thewhole weatherentirely.
The some of the best Ice types of the past few generations>have an ability that's just a free Choice Band>is a legendary that has two abilities>is a pseudo legendary>have minmaxed as shit statsThat's like saying Bug is good because there are two good Ultra Beasts that are bug, no shit Pokemon with pushed as fuck stats and abilities are good regardless of type. Ice types fill out some of the worst Pokemon in the game, while Fairy Pokemon while about as uncommon are on average better. And while a good number of new Fairy Pokemon are pushed as shit too, you've got shit like Clefable just being alright without it and even better with it (and a new ability just before that helped a lot too).
>>59131356My point there is that chip damage isn't a disadvantage. Learn how to read.>TH-THOSE OBJECTIVE ADVANTAGES DONT COUNT!!!Why do campaignshitters always do this?
>>59131437>when I take chip damage it is hardly a drawback only if you play against countless NPCs in a row you campaignshitter!>but when the opponent takes chip damage it is incredibly crippling for them>objective advantagesThings like Snow Cloak and Slush Rush are factually impossible to run if you just run Hail for Ninetales, as you claimed. And if you do want to make a full Hail team then you're better off with Sand since it does everything Hail does but better except Aurora Veil. Aurora Veil also has better synergy with Snow than Hail, which is another point against you.
>>59131356>Niche in VGCNo it’s not, it’s on like half of all Pao and Flutter. Sash is incredibly common and breaking it is a big deal. Also multiscale breaking.
>>59131525Aren’t those two just running it to beat each other?
>>59130608More VGC games get played on Showdown than current gen OU.
>>59130297Prove you're any good at the game and fight me.
Reading these threads makes me think more than half of you are going to get raped the first time you see someone use follow me
>>59131725The most hype part about Champions is gonna be all the rage it will generate from scrubs, normies, and fanfic players.
>>59130305kek I remember that thread
>>59131779Champions has Free Play, which is how Smogon always played the games on carts and base thier rules on.
>>59131787Main games don't play 6v6 singles and ban a new mon every week.
>>59131801The Main games have Free Play, which is 6v6 and you can use anything. Smogon just uses a honor system and simulators for their metagame.
>>59131844>The Main games have Free PlayThe main games cost money to purchase.
>>59131869Smogonites are poorfags?That explains everything.
>>59131869Champions also has Free Play
>>59131412>have an ability that's just a free Choice Band>is a legendary that has two abilities>is a pseudo legendary>have minmaxed as shit statsThis is the bar to entry in VGC. Everything has something on par with these. >b-but most Ice types are shitMost Pokémon of any typing are shit. Yes, even Steel and Fairy. This is a general powercreep problem, and nothing specifically associated with Ice. Ice is generally better as a spam type to stack your team with than Fairy too, anyway, as we've seen from past VGC results.
>>59130951>powercreepAll of those mons mentioned received buffs in the years that Kyogre/Groudon remained unchanged, sans Rayquaza. Giratina itself was introduced after them. I think they're just shit, anon.
>>59131910>This is the bar to entry in VGCYes, and you call it the “bar to entry in VGC” despite the fact no other Pokemon has Choice Band as an ability or 2 abilities at once, and there only being a handful of Power House Pokemon (official term btw, Psuedo is fanfic term)
>>59130265Is using a cracked DLC cover legendary equivalent really the example you want to use? May as well say Arceus-Bug proves the type is strong.
You should all derail Kojo's posts with coombait. Arguing is pointless when the other person is doing it in bad faith
>>59130265Turns out ice is good when you have 100/150/130 defenses and 165 attack and a 130 BP spread move with no downsides and moxie and unnerve and a speed tier good enough for trick room AND trick room!
>>59132061I'd rather flamewar with butthurt autists than partake in a cum brain thread
>>59132061Alternatively just shit up his threads with random stuff.
>>59130265The best ice-type is a water-type with ice beam.
>>59131501>but when the opponent takes chip damage it is incredibly crippling for themCorrect, because their team isn’t prepared for it but yours is. How is this so hard for you to grasp, campaignshitter?>Things like Snow Cloak and Slush Rush are factually impossible to run if you just run Hail for Ninetales,But they are factually possible to run without filling your team with Ice types.>Aurora Veil also has better synergy with Snow than Hail, Not really. Having chip damage is useful. Having two defense buffs is usually just overkill.
>>59132102Holy shit water types get a 135 BP Ice Beam? And access to Icicle Crash? And access to Ice Spinner? And access to Freeze Dry? And access to Sheer Cold? And access to Aurora Veil? Give me more of your wisdom, oh wise campaignshitter-sensei!
>>59132088>turns out [type] is good when a good pokemon has itCorrect, glad you’re learning how the entire game works
>>59132112>STAB Ice BeamAny Pokemon that can learn Ice Beam can do this if they go Tera Ice in a format where Tera is allowed, yawnie.>Icicle CrashCloyster and Arctovish do, yawnie.>Ice SpinnerBlastoise, Dewgong, Cloyster, Azumarill, Ludicolo, Empoleon, Primarina, Toxapex, Drednaw, Urshifu, Quaquaval and Iron Bundle do, yawnie. In fact, a comical number of non-ice types get Ice Spinner too.>Freeze-DryLapras, Arctovish and Iron Bundle do, yawnie.>Aurora VeilArctovish and Iron Bundle do, yawnie.
>>59132116Oh, and Sheer Cold, even though I'd think you'd know this as the crusader of ice type goodness?Dewgong, Lapras, Suicune, Walrein and Kyogre do, yawnie.
>>59131910On one hand, yeah SV was pretty fucking bad about it, especially with Paradox Pokemon running around to begin with. On the other hand, there's still two starter Pokemon running around, Volcarona is there despite being an even worse typing, Whimsicott is there doing Grass support things, and fucking Clefairy is even getting popular. I don't think an Ice type has been on the World Champion team since like 2023 even (might have missed it), and I imagine if you do some stat calcs it will become apparent that the Ice type is a liability in a lot of cases where the Ice STAB barely makes up for the risk. If you want to check the footage on how often an Ice type Teras in proportion to every other type I'd be curious. It would be really fucking funny if it were disproportionate, like even they don't want to use an Ice type and it's there as a stat stick.
>>59132116>Any Pokemon that can learn Ice Beam can do this if they go Tera IceCampaginfags really think becoming Ice Type is a good idea
>>59132097Deal.
>>59132061>just replace one form of cancer with another form of cancerI'm with the other guy, random bullshit go is funnier.
>>59132097that just might be crazy enough to work
>>59132271This thread is ours.We are GODS here.
>>59132242>>59132271let's do it bros
>>59130265The Ice TYPE is bad. As in, "in a bubble, looking only at the type chart, the Ice type isn't as good as most other types." Ice Pokemon are great because there's more to a Pokemon than just its types.
>>59132360
>>59130595That team was a real VGC team used in the Global Challenge last year.
>>59130265everything is good when you give it retard bstmega fug is literally a SFMA in terms of stat distribution but because it has 780 bst it's actually strong as fuck
>>59132379/Thread
The notion that “Ice isn’t bad because X Ice type Pokemon is good” is a dumb fallacy.Is 60 a good speed stat? No. It’s very slow and not even slow enough for Trick Room. You’ll get outsped by the vast majority of Pokemon.Yet that’s the speed stat of Incineroar, the most common Pokemon in Doubles.Does Incineroar being 60 Spe mean that 60 Spe is a good speed tier? It doesn’t. Incineroar is good DESPITE having a bad speed stat since it makes up for that bad speed stat in other areas.The good Ice types are good despite their typings. Their typings more or less existing to hinder them, like how Slaking has Truant but in a less extreme way.
>>59132702This. Fairy is a bad type.
>>59132708(You)
>>59132108>Correct, because their team isn’t prepared for it but yours is. How is this so hard for you to grasp, campaignshitter?try to keep track of your own arguement. You said Ninetales and T-tar could easily just be put on a team without having to take how Hail or Sand would affect the rest of the team into account.> But they are factually possible to run without filling your team with Ice types.Do show me which non-Ice types have access to Slush Rush or Snow Cloak, then I will be waiting a long time. >but I didn’t mean that literally every other team needs to be an Ice teamOf course not moron, that’s not how Hail or even Sand teams work. But I should mn’t be surprised since you couldn’t grasp that Rizzo’s team was a Sand team. > Not really. Having chip damage is useful. Having two defense buffs is usually just overkill.I strongly disagree but then don’t run Aurora Veil, there you have unlocked a new action in VGC’s very expensive action economy.I’ll take this very easy for your autistic brain.Hail team = Team specifically built around HailHail team != Team were every member is IceSand team = Team specifically built around SandSand team != Team were every member is Rock/Ground/SteelShould you usually have more than just the setter as part of the mind taking advantage of the weather? Absolutely, and Sand gives you better flexibility and variety there. You have yet to show why Hail is not just worse Sand yet, and thus why changing to Snow was preferable.
>>59130325I rather fuck up my opponent's sash/multiscale/disguise.
>>59130561>not piercing the heavens in a ttar team>ngbiy
>>59132708This. 150 is a bad speed tier
>>59132997You can just do that with rocks.
>>59133233>t.u'reshitfu
>>59132997>Disguiseanon…
>>59132936>without having to take how Hail or Sand would affect the rest of the teamThat's not what I said. What I actually said is that all you have to do is not run Sash on any of your other Pokemon.>Do show me which non-Ice types have access to Slush Rush or Snow Cloak, then I will be waiting a long time. Read more slowly, campaignshitter.>that’s not how Hail or even Sand teams workGlad you agree that you're retarded and don't need to fill your team with Ice types.>I strongly disagree but then don’t run Aurora VeilWhy would I not run Aurora Beil?>Hail team != Team were every member is Ice>Sand team != Team were every member is Rock/Ground/SteelGlad you agree that you're retarded and don't need to fill your team with Ice types.
>>59131784qrd?
>>59133628sagefag falseflagged and claimed shadow ball is available in gen 1 just so he can have an excuse to spam that image whenever anyone calls him out for being a campaignshitter
>>59133318> That's not what I said. What I actually said is that all you have to do is not run Sash on any of your other Pokemon.Yet now you’re talking about Slush Rush and Snow Cloak, which are significantly bigger considerations than “lol just don’t use Sash”.> Why would I not run Aurora Beil?Because you for some reason said Snow + Aurora Veil was overkill> Glad you agree that you're retarded and don't need to fill your team with Ice types.I on the other hand am sad you still don’t understand that you cannot run a Snow Warning + Slush Rush or Snow Cloak without at least two Ice types, nor understanding that similar cases for Sand leave you with three types to choose from. Making Hail objectively worse Sand.
>>59133739> Yet now you’re talking about Slush Rush and Snow Cloak, which are significantly bigger considerations You don’t need to put either of those things on your team to get advantage out of Hail, campaignshitter.>Because you for some reason said Snow + Aurora Veil was overkillWhich it is. Hail + Aurora Veil is better.> I on the other hand am sad you still don’t understand that you cannot run a Snow Warning + Slush Rush or Snow Cloak without at least two Ice types,I literally never said this. Learn how to read.>Making Hail objectively worse SandNot relevant. Hail is still more useful than Snow.
where are you noww icesissies? ghost gang is winnering again
>>59133233You can just do that better with Hail.
this board gets so much better when you filter this dumbass's catchphrases
>>591349834chan X my beloved.
>>59132061ive been gone a while when did we start calling yawnfag kojo and why
>>59135010https://xcancel.com/Kojo_AN/He posts the exact kind of bait on twitter as he does here.He also posts on reddit.
>>59135096
>>59135180Turns out he's just only one person responsible for all if the shit on here.
>>59134970
>>59135221>send out ninetales>opponent’s sash is immediately broken>use rocks>sash remains intact as long as the opponent doesn’t switchStop staring at fanfic garbage and play the game.
>>59135230Also you have to waste a turn setting up rocks which defeats the entire purpose of being able to passively break Sash.
>>59135230>kantonian ninetalesThis dumbass doesn't play the game.
>>59130265All Ice types that are good do so in spite of being Ice type, not because they are Ice type.
>>59130297I play PVP. Calyrex Ice is one of the few Slow and Bulky Ice Types that's good. Even then, it's not good because it's an Ice type. If it were any other type, it'd probably be just as good.
>>59130418Never played comp award
>>59130469It's good because it has other things that other slow and bulky Ice types don't.>165 Attack>Mixed bulk>Coverage>Overpowered signature move>Overpowered abilityIt's good despite the typing because it has enough tools to make up for it.
>>59130501I do. No one runs just one Pokémon with Snow Warning. NO ONE. The advantages are outweighed by the disadvantages
>>59130568They never said that. You can run whatever you fucking want. Tyranitar is almost exclusively ran on Sandstorm teams. Doesn't mean it won't see success on teams that don't.
>>59130585See, Dewgong is mid despite being a slow and bulky Ice types. Zacian is good because of Steel, not Fairy.
>>59130589Btw the guy who took that screenshot won.
>>59130635Actually you're more likely to see them practicing ingame. They gen their teams and play
>>59130677I watched the video. It gives a lot of points as to why OP is wrong.
>>59130703It's easy to assume that they're the same due to the fact they have similar arguments and speech patterns.
>>59135304>They never said thatYes they did.
>>59130733Ttar was put there for Sandstorm. To synergize with Garchomp and Metagross. The rest of the team was primarily for coverage or because they synergized despite the inherent disadvantage of taking damage in Sandstorm
>>59130726It is shit.Name one Ice type Pokémon that is good because it is an Ice type (and wouldn't be just as good or better as a different type). Explain why the Ice typing is so important for it.
>>59130740The guy hating on Unova is a campaignshitter? I never would've guessed.
>>59131199Chip damage does add up. It can be the difference between getting a KO or not getting one. You've gotta realize that weather affects both sides of the field.
>>59131206What? Rillaboom is great in the campaign and is even better at comp. In the campaign you likely won't have Grassy Surge so the healing doesn't matter. In comp it's negligible at best, and the benefits for Rillaboom outweigh the cons. It also gets healed, plus priority with Grassy Glide. It's unfortunately not used as much anymore because it lost Grassy Glide in Gen 9. Plus there's more ways to play around Grassy Terrain.
>>59135333There is no "inherent disadvantage" retard.>>59135362>Chip damage does add up. It can be the difference between getting a KO or not getting one.Exactly. Glad we agree chip damage is good.
>>59131437He explained why the advantages aren't worth it and you ignored it
>>59135371Kojo's being a retard for (You)s.
>>59131779Then yawnie will have no arguments
>>59135391>He explained why the advantages aren't worth itNo he didn't.
>>59132097Nooooo
>>59132112Ice Beam, Blizzard and Freeze-Dry are semi common among Water types
>>59132145In some niche scenarios yes. If you need the STAB for a KO, or Ice is better for a defensive matchup
>>59132379YES. EXACTLY. SOMEONE FINALLY SAYS IT
>>59132702>not even slow enough for Trick Room.This is the wrong mentality. Trick Room is speed control. As long as you're slower than your opponent, you're slow enough for Trick Room. Koraidon is a TR Pokemon when you're going up against CSR.
>>59135406>Freeze-DryOnly Ice types learn Freeze-Dry.
>>59135420
>>59135433Calm down, buddy.
>>59135413>Opponent has Raidon at normal speed and an uninvested 85 (slower than minspeed Miraidon by a long shot)>Trick Rooming means you outspeed the Raidon but not the 85er>Not Trick Rooming means you outspeed the 85er but not the Raidon>Somehow this is fine
>>59133633It was yawnfag that did that newfag
>>59134185>literally never said this. Learn how to read.Nta but it looks like you did
>>59132702>UHM ACKSHUALLYIncin actually benefits from its shit speed stat because it’s a U-Turn/Parting Shot pivot. It WANTS to go last no matter what so it can sponge a hit and get your other mon in scot-free.Your point is still valid of course. A mon can be good in spite of a limitation, like a shit type. Just Incin speed specifically is a bad example
>>59135458you're replying to yawnfag
>>59132997It only works sometimes. Those aren't on everything. Also does Hail actually affect Disguise?
>>59132348>>59132360
>>59133003How does one do that?>>59133197Yes of course>>59133318Upon reading previous messages, I concluded that you are wrong.>>59135010They may very well be the same person. Kojo is a twitter retard who was making an ugly Pokémon fangame. Now all he does is spread misinformation about Gen 5 to make it look bad. People suspect that Kojo and Yawnie are the same due to similar arguments and speech patterns
>>59135230That's why you set up the stones before hand.
I grew up in a rough neighborhood i tells ya. Our family was robbed and all they left was the PS3 Library!
>>59135330Then show us where they said that
I'm gettin old I tell ya. I tried getting tickets to see Back to The Future, they gave me Back to The Past instead!
>>59135375>There is no "inherent disadvantage" retard.>Your non-Rock, Steel or Ground Pokémon taking damage from the sandstorm???
>>59135463Wouldn't be surprised
I tell ya, I get no respect. I went to get food from my fridge, and it started running away!
>>59130274>it existed to sell the first ever DLC.what does crystal have to do with it
