Just face it. We will never see the downfall of Tony the Cat.
Sinistchads our time is now
How would you fix Incineroar? Or is he fine the way he is?
Doesn't mean we gotta be happy about it.
>>59134156Funny how they made it so strong by accident because they would never allow another pokemon to be stronger than their soulless corporate MIDlennial cashgrab CHARIZARD from KANTOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Meganium being here is surprising.>higher than salamenceThe fuck?
>>59134156Lol Normies are going to drop Champions so fucking fast
>>59134156
>>59134156Why are Feraligatr and Meganium even there?
>>59134177New toy syndrome. Plus we don't know many habilities yet.
>>59134177people want tot ry out the new toy. frosslass is the goat btw
>>59134200Welcome back, ZardY.
>>59134200The WALL now has Body Press and 50 base speed to use it in Trick Room.
>>59134168Are you a retard? They never buffed Charizard until gen 6 with the mega. And Blaziken, for example, was much more strong than Charizard back in the day.
>>59134245solar power kinda counts
>>59134243The wall is mediocre shit
>>59134161Incineroar's role in the meta is actually pretty important. The best "fix" is introduce/buff more pokemon to do what it does, slightly differently, to make the choice a more nuanced one than just slapping VGCcat on your team and calling it a day.
>>59134252TIME TO TAKE A GIANT DIAMOND SHIT ON TOP OF YOUR CAR
>>59134161Its hidden ability is now rivalry. In addition, a gamefreak employee must be ritually sacrificed if any buff to Incineroar is ever proposed.
>>59134207Even if their usage drops they're still usable unlike Flygon.
>>59134295Is Flygon even in the game?
>>59134156Where's Starraptor?
>>59134193If they don't do notable buffs/nerfs with Champions, most likely
>>59134300ability isnt actually announced yet
>>59134193Everyone these days wants to be a Pokémon. So no, they won't
>>59134310Oh ok, so it's probably not eve ngetting Contrary, just Defiant.God, I hope. Nothing with that much speed and bulk and access to CC should get Contrary.
>>59134298No.And that's why I said they'd be more usable than Flygon. Regardless of a Pokemon's viability in Champions it's in the game at the start that means the Pokemon is automatically more usable than Flygon ever will be during season 1. So yes, Castform and Delcatty are usable unlike Flygon is.
>>59134316who knows, its all based on some chinese dude posting and being badly translated multiple times
>>59134156Is this stupid cat really that good?
>>59134342It's hist fucking ability. It completelly ruins physical attackers. You would see Arcanine rise in the charts if they decided to replace it with some other hability.
>>59134193I can see it going the way of TCG Pocket sadly
>>59134156That Chart Is Wrong, I Don't See Pikachu There. Where Is Pikachu???
>>59134200>Meowstic that highWhat the kot doin'?
>>59134365They gave it psychic surge when we don't even know if that will be it's real ability yet.
>>59134342has 3 things going for it:1: intimidate plus parting shot means it can safely pivot in and out and can completely cripple most physical attackers2: dark type which means it can't be prankster'd so it can safely throw out it's parting shots 3: stupid powerful stab moves with flare blitz and stab knock-off alongside a 115 attack stat, not the highest but nothing to scoff at.
>>59134348What about Staraptor and Krookodile's Intimidate ?
>>59134355TCG pocket is barebones with modes just like Champions seems to be going
>>59134357Pikachu 41%'d
>>59134388When you compare Incineroars bulk to other Intimidate users you start to see why it's so much better.>Krookodile: 95/80/70>Incineroar: 95/90/90Most other Intimidate users also don't have access to Fake Out. Incine is also the only Intimidate user not named Squakabilly that has Parting Shot.
>>59134412Oh yeah Parting Shot. That's such a ridiculous move. Incineroar can only be countered by things with Howl.
>>59134207ExperimentationLow numbers of users will experiment with all sorts of things. Plenty of things that seem unspectacular on paper have surprising interactions that can be difficult to predict, and the only way to be sure is to actually use them. Often this experimentation leads to predictable outcomes. This thing looks shit, turns out it indeed is shit. That thing looks completely outclassed by this fucking thing, and indeed, this fucking thing is better. But sometimes you find something surprising that nobody at the time realized, that might even seem obvious in hindsight. This is how someone can land on Pachirisu being exactly what a particular team needs, because it accomplishes X, Y, and Z things that no other pokemon can also do all of, and win Worlds with it. If you always pick the Big 6, you can only be caught off guard by new things.
>>59134161Ban Pokemon from VGC teams if they look too ugly.
>>59134156What is this from?
>>59134412YeahIntimidate is a solid opener.Fake Out shuts down whatever the opponent is up to. Parting Shot gets it out of the way and further cripples something.It's hard to oneshot, and because so much of its game plan is utility its hard to completely shut downAnd it even has enough offensive ability to not be dead fucking weight if it's do or die time. It CAN in fact click Flare Blitz or something to score a kill once in a while.
>>59134491Anything from gen 4 and forward would be unable to participate.
>>59134491RIP Sneasler and Dragonite.
>>59134324But why are you mentioning Flygon if it isn't in the game
>>59134161gamefreak shouldn't be giving things fake-out and intimidate without a significant penalty (ie. hitmontop's fragility or scrafty's low speed)
>>59134161they took Knock Off from it reports are sayingif >>59134278 is true then it's dead
>>59134491who would decide if they're too ugly thensurely noone official would deem their own pokemon ugly
>>59134156Normies about learn real quick why Incineroar got that slot in Smash once Champions hits.
>>59134491Then there wouldn't be any teams left, all the top VGC mons are horrid looking
if its any consolation, I vastly prefer incineroar's design over landorusthis list can still blow apart once we the mega abilities are unveiled
>>59134544Because that’s the new shitpost meme people are throwing around
>>59134156>>59134200Embortsisters…you told me mold breaker was a good ability…
>>59134544Flygonfags deserve the humiliation for being so entitled, like how pic related exists and not Mega Flygon (to their dismay).
>>59134216It's only that high to counter the ludicrous amount of rain teams on that ladder. Pelipper + Archaulodon is the most braindead easy team to build around.
>>59134551How big of a nerf is getting rid of Knock Off anyway?
>>59134544>NPC in ZA mentions how Flygon wish it had a mega evolutionI love how even Gamefreak is aware of the Flygon meme
>>59134632not really much at all, knock off was like a cherry on top and not the cake itself. It doesn't help that in this mega-fixated meta knock-off does not impact mega stones.
>>59134633Retard. That NPC takes the species of whatever Pokemon you pick that fits his criteria.
>>59134156Not seeing Rillanigga I'm guessing they're waiting till its confirmed in the game
>>59134156>Incineroar at the top >Primarina with a fair amount of usage>Deshitueye no where to be seenKWAB
>>59134647It’s not the species since Flygon isn’t in ZA. It’s just the name of the Pokèmon you chose.
>>59134626That's a good reason to be used.
>>59134200so is this meta going to be 'choose your weather'?
>>59134666Either way it made Flygonfags piss and shit themselves.
>>59134262Hitmontop would be Incin if it had U-turn.Dead serious, Top's moveset has really cool tech.
>>59134652Strange how hoenn and galar are the only starters not confirmed in champions yet. Even the Hisuian starters have been.
>>59134652Yes, I'm pretty sure its in though
>>59134687Yeah, that would be good.Give top a pivot, and maybe make a few more things like it, and this "fixes" incin. Incin still has reasons you'd use it above the others, but also has inconveniences that the others don't, and the others have things they can do that Incin can't. I can't think of any other good candidates off the top of my head
>>59134348It's more than the ability. Incineroar was already rising fast in doubles with just earning knock off + more favorable matchups compared to VGC17, before intimidate was legal on it. Arcanine was falling into irrelevance at that time too, and pre-intimidate Incineroar already eclipsed it into the top 15 most used due to Lando taking back the intimidate niche. You'd need to completely cripple Incineroar by removing knock off (already done in champs), intimidate, fake out, and parting shot for Arcanine to have a chance. Again, early USUM Incineroar was literally already top 15 usage with Blaze when people caught on how good its setup was for support.
>>59134770And USUM Incineroar was pre-parting shot too.
Incineroar is why I'll never take VGC seriously lol
>>59134784Smogon had to ban like 30 mons from OU this generation.
>>59134632It didn't have it in Gen 8 when it was the number one Pokemon used (of two in formats with Zacian). It will be fine with Throat Chop or Darkest Lariat.
>>59134679And you call this Regulation M-A, even though it is clearly just Regulation H.
>>59134679With the roster and mega abilities we know about right now the current meta is very weather focused.
>>59134662Decidueye was made to flop, that’s why it got replaced. No non-Kanto Pokémon that got a regional replace has even been a success
>>59134662Just look at those stats and that ability. Like what the fuck lmao
>>59134817B-BUT MUH ROOL UHF KEWL AND LE BADASS GHOSTERINO!!1PWEASE GOH AFHTUR MEHGAYNYUM INSTEAD!!1 WAHHHHHHHH!!1
>>59134795ah yes, the mon it's literally supereffective against and still debuffs
>>59134788and VGC is ruled mostly by one Pokemon, both are shit
>>59134788>had to
>>59134840Yes. Had to. Game freak was too busy raping kids to balance the game to Smogon had to do it
>>59134316It doesn't have roost anymore. Contrary on it is pretty mediocre. Defiant just kills it ever being viable, it's worse than regular reckless staraptor then
It's good for business that the wrestler starter is good in tag-team matches.
>>59134843>fanficshitter accusing anyone else of raping kids
>>59134161replace intimidate with "fiery moves"-all contact moves become fire-type, does not boost damage it puts it on par with long reach and liquid voice
>>59134860>pedo freak shill coping this hard
>>59134738Give gyarados flip turn and you may have some competition. Krookodile with parting shot might be solid. Masquerain with rage powder and sleep powder has potential. Mawile with fakeout and her mega might be a better choice for offense heavy teams. Arbok could get shed tail and with glare can threaten para which is a possible niche. Pangoro could get intimidate and upper hand. Most of these outspeed Incin so his bulk advantage would be the tradeoff, and an extra 10 HP here or there for the weaker mons would also help out.I thought about Scrafty but he already has everything incin has+ a mega so I dunno what else you could give the guy. Maybe shed tail?
back in the day Hitmontop, Scrafty, Arcanine, and Landorus were all competing for your intimidate slot
>>59134883It feels like it would be so healthy for the metagame if they buffed more intimidators. I dont mind if this ability is overcentralizing because I like passive debuffs as a staple. Theres very little reason incineroar should monopolize it
>>59134890The main reason 'Roar is THE Intimidate King is because of Parting Shot and his Dark Typing, Prankster immunity is huge for longevity and a pivot that further compounds what Intimidate already did AND can cripple special attackers is just too good.The only way you'll get more diversity is more Intimidate darkies with pivot moves that have equal or greater utility than Parting Shot.
>>59134161Give him back Knock-Off, then also give him follow me
>>59134918>follow me>parting shot>your team leaves the field and joins the other sideThoughts?
>>59134918And buff Intimidate to act like Unnerve and Pressure.
I feel like they only got rid of Knock Off because they where upset that nobody was using it's signature move.
>>59134890Turn stench into a special version of intimidate so special attackers can be handled aswell.
>>59134933If this is the type of balancing Champions will be getting, we are cooked
>>59134933this is exactly the kind of balancing I expect from gamefreakI think any LLM with outdated knowledge banks from 2025 could still balance the game better
remove protectremove fake outremove sucker punch
>>59134974Well they removed Encore from Gengar so Shadow Tag would be ultra cancer, so that's a start.
>>59134491That wouldn't stop Incineroar from dominating VGC.
>>59134974Do people even think gamefreak is capable of balancing things?
It's funny how Incineroar is to VGC what Lando-T was to Smogon Singles (and formally VGC before the fire cat), but the Tony Turning Tiger never got affected by power creep. It's too perfect in that format.
>>59134788Singles is shit too. Pokemon was not designed to be a competitive game.
come home to NatDex Doubles, white man
>>59135533Because Incineroar was made to be shilled. The only reason it didn’t get a mega on top of all the broken bullshit it has is because it would overshadow thier precious Charizard
>>59135521True, just one look at TCG Pocket's meta should show how Champions is going to end up
>>59135616That game is about collecting. Anyone who takes the Pocket meta seriously when the real TCG is already a thing is a fucking idiot.
>>59134342Him existing gives you -1 attackHis next move is either flinching you so you cant move or giving you -2 attack -1 special attack and then sending in rillaboom to flinch you.Its just degeneracy like stall where the conceit is to not let your opponent play the game
Intimidate activates once on the same target so you cant cycle intimidates on the same mon.Attack loss from intimidate falls off after 2 turns. Fake out does not work if your speed is less than half of the opponents speed.Fixed the fag cat
>>59134156Good
>>59135689yep sounds like absolute cancer
>>59134495showdown mod server for champions, has OU matches too but they're (understandable) less popular>https://showdown-vgcpast-es.psim.us/
>>59134795Throat chop might be better since it can shut down mega mence and mega garde hyper voice
i dont know where to ask this so im going to ask it here, I saw a youtuber play with a "regulation h" team that looked cool so i wanted to try it out but on showdown only "regulation I" is available as far as i can tell, can you not play no legendaries matches on showdown? I've never played competitive before
>>59135942SV VGC is officially over now. Showdown likely took down the old regulation ladders since there is no longer a point in practicing them anymore.Just wait for Champions in 2 days to get into competitive. The game is heavily focused on easing new players into comp play.
>>59135956i dont buy nintendo slop so i will be a showdown only babby
>>59134177It's still SV so pre-Mega, right?Well, it's pretty bulky and has reasonable support movepool + mono grass resists ever popular Electric, Ground and Water moves. It fits both into Sun (thanks to HA and usual grass shenaniggers) and Rain (Fire nerf) teams, too.It's niche but legit on paper.
>>59135992>It's still SV so pre-Mega, right?No. The results in OP are from a Champions mockup ladder. Meganium is using it's mega.
>>59134161Make it not look hideous, for starters, but sacking its capability to switch by taking U-Turn away or having it lose Parting Shot would probably be a good starter. Intimidate getting changed would be one of the easiest options, but I frequently run Competitive Milotic and Galar Zapdos, and those things just break the brains of Incin players the second those abilities trip.
>>59134620I’m a Flygonfag and I’d rather Flygon never get a mega than some humiliation ritual like Toiletgatr or whatever the hell that thing is
>>59134262This. “Intimidate fake out pivot” is just a thing teams need, the issue isn’t that Incin is too good it’s just that not enough other mons do it. Mons with different pivot utility would help break things up; give something like Scrafty or Hitmontop a fighting type clone of Icy Wind, or maybe Arcanine a Chilly Reception clone that sets sun instead of snow before switching, and Incin stocks will fall drastically without it dropping from the meta entirely.I broadly feel the same way about sus mushroom, it’s not “centralizing” but it’s everywhere because there aren’t enough reliable sleepy time walls.
>>59134864That would make him able to fake out every mon unless they have a flash fire or inner focus
>>59135942An unfortunate decision around VGC is they rotate regs instead or running them in parallel, so there’s only ever one ladder active at a time. Which means if the official tournaments are in a restricted format, that’s the only one anybody is bothering to drill since you can’t play the other ones.I’d really like to see parallel formats in Champions but it probably won’t happen unless the game is crazy successful.
>>59135942Just play the game when it's released in mobile
>>59134883gyarados could use a flying physical
>>59134738>I can't think of any other good candidates off the top of my headI mean before Incin owned VGC, it was Lando calTherian with U-Turn doing the same shit too. Same basic concept, switch in to weaken, sponge a hit, switch out. If Lando got fake out, Incin would fall off again… and you’d be back to Landorus running the show.I think the real problem with mons like Top, Gyarados, Scrafty, etc., is that they just lack the bulk. Incin isn’t a wall but it also isn’t fragile and it has no quad weaknesses.
>>59134548How is incineroar's speed high?
>>59134548If Mega Scrafty turns out to be good, AND it’s a closed sheet format on the ladder (no item preview) I could see Scrafty stealing a lot of usage from Incin, just because of the mind game of the opponent thinking it’s going to mega and switching to a counter and then it just goes for fake out and parting shot.
>>59136227Lando has quad weakness to ice but it has never been a problem for him.
>>59134245>more strongSAAR
>>59136316Incineroars speed is juuuuuust high enough to let you outrun a bunch of slower threats with minimal speed EV investment.
>>59136316His speed is high when like 25% of the metagame ends up being trick room
>>59134412Scrafty has Parting Shot and Fake Out now so hopefully he'll get some attention, especially if Incin lost Knock Off
>>59136688Scrafty has all the tools to do well and more bulk than incin as well, the major issue is fairies running all over the fucking place, neutral into incin but 4x into scrafty is kind of a big issue for him.I still believe in scrafty though, I think a lot of the incin presence is really just popular because popular. Scrafty could probably be just as good, but incin is a “solved” mon and there isn’t a super compelling reason to figure out scrafty instead because it doesn’t offer any substantial theoretical advantage.
>>59134193I remember how Master Duel debuted with 250k players in its first few days which quickly cratered when the casuals trying to play Dark Magician and Blue-Eyes got farmed by the meta. Since Champions seems to be going down the same path of PVP as main content good luck to them
Does Salamence have his mega stone in this game as of this infographic?
>>59134156Literal fanfic meta. We don’t even know abilities of most of the new Megas or the legal Pokemon.
>>59136170Thanks for admitting defeat.
>>59134156I don't understand why they just don't give some other fucking pokemon its tools.Only fucking squawkabilly has parting shot plus intimidate and it will be a shitmon no matter what you give it.
>>59136788Yes
>>59134374Incinfags think they’re invincible until the booster flutter clicks taunt and they can’t do shit besides switch out
>>59137003>Only fucking squawkabilly has parting shot plus intimidate and it will be a shitmon no matter what you give it.Better than being Flygon.
Remember when you only had to worry about scrafty or hitmontop pulling incinerors bullshit? And they did it much worse with worse typings and stats and movepools
>>59134374It's losing Knock Off in Champions, but even then everything else is so good and its bulk is respectable enough that you still want to use it since there's bound to be other mons who can do the Knocking Off in its place, encouraging 'Roar to be even more of an obnoxious pivoting twat.>>59137003>>59137038Scrafty can do it too and even has the Prankster Immunity benefits, but you'll never see it be used compared to Tony because it has worse HP and doesn't hit nearly as hard as Tony.
>>59137078Make me remember the side roar farig set
>>59137078>Scrafty can do it tooYeah with a 4x fairy weakness and without knockoff too. Gamefreak has to pay for their crimes
>>59137092Scrafty has knock off in za but lol za moves
>>59137092Roar doesn't get to Knockoff either once we pivot to Champions.And Roar has to worry about getting raped by Surging Strikes and two different forms of SE Ivy Cudgel, never mind Water Spout whenever Kyogre comes to play, but you don't see it having problems with longevity.
Let's face it, no amount of tools given to other intimidate mons can match the perfect storm that is>burn immunity + pranskter immunity + starter (or higher) BST distributed well
Incin should never have gotten fakeout
>>59134156>Mence lower than MeganiumSalamencebros. I thought your boy was this massive threat.
>>59137105This, you literally can't top Roar without making a Roar with Legendary BST and a similar stat spread.People meme its 80 Speed a lot but that unironically means it's in the perfect speed tier to function as a slow pivot in ALL conditions except having Tailwind, which is massive for safe pivots.
>>59137112New toy syndrome. The novelty will wear off after people get into Champions proper and a few weeks pass, then the meta will stabilize into Mega Mence, Mega Froslass bolstering Snow Teams to play counter to Mega Mence and maybe some other surprise hits depending on if GameFreak gets their shit together with the abilities for the good stat freaks.
>>59137119>Snow teams become so meta Mence becomes unplayableIf Mega Froslass is actually that good I could see it happening.
>>59137123It's basically a harder hitting and faster A-Ninetales with a better type configuration (innate Fake Out immunity, no dual weakness to steel so Zamazenta can't harass it nearly as brutally), it's in a very good position to thrive off of safe Aurora Veils and then go crazy with Blizzard Spam.
>>59137172Do you have a second Veil setter out at the same time or do you have Froslass do it and hope she survives the turn?
dropping this here in hopes someone cares: slept on item - adrenaline orb, +1 speed boost when intimidated, single use though
>>59137289Froslassbros i thought we were good…
>>59136196but he loses intimidateand besides, there are already scrappy fake outs through kang
>>59137289Rage Powder Mega Scov believers were… right?
>>59137310lol Sneasler looks cross-eyed
>>59134505*gen 3>Verification is not required.
i remade my regulation h team to be UU legal to play it on showdown but DUU battles are 6v6 instead of proper 4v4
>>59134156How charizard this high?
>>59134156It's probably some gamefreak high up fursona
>>59134161Intimidate now only works once per battle. It's that simple to fix
>>59138329setting sun with Y mega
>>59134262>The best "fix" is introduce/buff more pokemon to do what it does, slightly differently, to make the choice a more nuanced one than just slapping VGCcat on your team and calling it a day>yea how about introducing another fake out user>and what if we give it a pivot move so it fulfills a similar role>and we could give it a defensive ability. maybe a healing effect or something>and what if we give it a different typing so it's not too similar to incineroar>oh no people are running both now and competitive gameplay is the most unpalatable it has ever been
>>59138398>didn’t even mention grassy
>>59134252Mediocre, but hype. Way more than your favorite could say.
>>59137024>Flare blitzes you
>>59138333I hate what vgc has become
>>59138588I hate dlc shillmons so god damn much
>>59137289I contributed partially to slowking being there, he was what I used to rape the idiots spamming the psyspam mega cat. He tanks the first hit and then OHKOs their partner sneasler back with his own expanding force, he also can just twave cripple the cat.
>>59138398Simple solution: nuke Japan
>>59134156Competitive Pokemon is a joke lol
