If Blue beat Lance to become champion, who was the other elite 4 member he had to face beforehand? Also, how do they decide who gets kicked out of the E4 when there's a new champion?
I don't think there was a champion before Blue. Prof. Oak has an email from the League saying they just opened.
>>59136273Clair.That's why she's so butthurt in the Johto games.
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about?
>>59136273I dunno if there was one, I'm also not sure if Will having an Ice room in Gen II was intentional or just crunch cause they changed it in HGSS to fit his type. I dunno what type an extra E4 member would specialize in, like your options are Flying, Bug and Normal, none of which are on the same distinction in universe as how Ice, Fighting, Ghost and Dragon are portrayed, otherwise you'd have to repeat a type somewhere.
>>59136314You have to defeat the elite 4 then the champion to become champion in every pokemon game. This implies that someone got kicked out for Lance to get demoted into the elite 4 after losing to blue.
>>59136273Lance was both the champion and part of the E4 before Blue.There being a secret 5th guy after the E4 is something the later games made up so they could lazily copy Gen 1.
>>59136336Yeah this. Also there isn't another league. Just Indigo Plateau having strong trainers and being gatekept with badges.
>>59136336Like Johto reusing the same guys, instead of just having new guys.
>>59136336There wasn’t supposed to be a secret 5th guy?
>>59136273The elite 4 dont make any sense. GF was too lazy to make an AI tournament with Blue as the finale.
>>59136377Why? Because they aren’t in the animes?
The email on Oak’s computer just says elite four, it doesn’t say “elite four and the champion”
>>59136400Why
>>59136403Because there wasn’t a champion yet before Green beat them
>>59136440What the fuck? So it was just an elite four chillin on the plateau? No one ever beat them all before?
>>59136328>This implies that someone got kicked out for Lance to get demoted into the elite 4 after losing to blue.Nope, you just need to beat the E4 if there is no champ, this is confirmed in the Alolan games AND Lance outright tells you you would be the champ after beating him if Blue didn't beat them earlier.
>>59136448Why wasn’t there a champ?
>>59136448This still doesn't make sense for any type of official league format. Some people will randomly have to fight a 5th mystery boss to become champ while some only have to defeat the elite 4. I'd be calling bullshit if they pulled that on me
>>59136288I'll hurt her butt if you know what I mean.
>>59136464Fym? There doesn’t always have to be a champion big dawg. Like what happens if someone just puts their name in the hall of fame and steps down? Or dies? What happens when they just make a league and there’s no champ?
>>59136483If the champion steps down then the highest ranking member of the E4 gets promoted. This literally happens in G/S/C. Do you think Lance had to beat the elite 4 himself to become champion in GSC? And who was the fourth member?
>>59136444They sat around thinking up strategies and shit like some roman philosophers, the term Elite Four is a religious term in Japanese
>>59136380No 4 assholes you beat before you can take on the current champ is bullshit if you think about how many gym challengers would exist in a season in Kanto. Hundreds at the least.
>>59136493>Do you think Lance had to beat the elite 4 himself to become champion in GSC?Kind of yeah.What if lance was both the champion and a member of the elite four?Also how would they replace an e4 when they become the champ?
>>59136504The games never explain how the e4 is picked (i think). Seemingly, there should be some sort of ELO system like chess to have an objective rating of the best trainers.
Bird Keeper Lance
Elite Four makes zero sense after the Kanto games because apparently EVERY league in the world HAD to operate based on a "Four Heavenly Kings" group and then some random, arbitrary asshole who happened to be stronger than them. Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova and Kalos all have dogshit Elite Fours unsurprisingly, because Masuda was unable to understand that repeating Kanto doesn't mean anything if you just do shit arbitrarily and without reason. It's why the franchise wasn't able to grow until he finally fucking left
>>59136286fpbp for actually playing the games and knowing the lore
>>59136508I'd assume based on how Koga ended up there out of nowhere in GSC that the Elite 4 are just the 4 top gym leaders. If agatha died/retired then they'd probably have a quick tourney or check out some sort of rating to see who takes her spot. Or perhaps all the gym leaders qualify for Elite 4 and they're picked either democratically. Blue was the viridian leader despite clearly being stronger than any of the E4 members. Perhaps Koga was chosen as a matter of convienience since Janine could take over his gym without much trouble and no one voted for Blue because he was an asshole.
>>59136464first come first serve, just like ur mum
>>59137595>group of elite fighters and the leader that's stronger than all of themIt's a common shonen staple? What's random and arbitrary about it?
>>59138037In Gen I, it was a plot twist that someone became the Champion before you. Afterwards, it became standard for there to be an actual final boss, which makes the concept of the Elite Four redundant and pointless. This is why most of them are treated as literally whos that the larger fanbase don't give a shit about outside of the abstract waifu/husbando, which shouldn't count to begin withNo region has an Elite Four that befits its identity, because the Champion supersedes these characters and makes them irrelevant bumps in the road in a narrative perspective. The only games that attempt to do something with their Elite Fours beyond having arbitrary boss fights are Gens V, VII and IX. Wouldn't you know it, these are the most popular Elite Fours, because they aren't just Masuda lazily rehashing the same slop ad nauseam anymore
>>59138114>Gens V, VII and IX.>the most popular Elite FoursMost people couldn't name a single one of these outside of Larry, and only because his name is Larry.
>>59138142Which is part of my initial point, if you were following the conversation and didn't just want to be smarmy>>59137595>Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova and Kalos all have dogshit Elite Fours unsurprisinglyAlso you have to be retarded to say characters like Acerola and Olivia aren't well known. Also trying to undermine Rika when in Japan she ranked top place on actual popular anime character lists above Liko. And before you go>JapanJapanese franchise. Westoids don't know characters that aren't Ash to begin with
>>59138158Who who who and who
>>59136493>Do you think Lance had to beat the elite 4 himself to become champion in GSCWhy wouldn't he? I'm sure he already beat them individually to rise to the top of their team stack and I'm sure they rebattle regularly to maintain a meritocratic hierarchy.
>>59138114>it became standard for there to be an actual final boss, which makes the concept of the Elite Four redundant and pointless.It doesn't. It should be pointless in Gen 1 then, why not just directly fight Blue? >This is why most of them are treated as literally whos that the larger fanbase don't give a shit aboutThat's a whole other issue. It's not like most characters in this series are that memorable.>Gen VAnd it's a Unovaschizo.
>>59136481I don't.Please explain.
>>59137462You people say that like it's an insult.
>>59136372No, beat the e4 become champion, the battle angaist blue is because he beat the e4 first
>>59138142Shauntal (I actually like her)Grimsley (he showed up in multiple games)Youre right about the rest on the other hand.
>>59136286THREAD ENDED HEREWHY ARE YOU FAGGOTS BUMPING THIS RETARDED THREAD?
>>59138231Id slap her butt for not giving me the damn badge
>>59138227Because the point with Blue is he did it first. That's also why it's established in SM. What's the point of having them in the other games? Because Kanto did it? It thematically makes no sense, not even in Unova since the game spends most of its time doing the "look it's the Champion" bit from the previous gamesMost games don't even bring up a fucking Elite Four until you're at Victory Road
>>59138142Gen 9 also has Rika (who gave many women their first lesbian awakening) and Poppy (who everyone is either sexually attracted to or bitches about because "WHY IS A 5 YEAR OLD AN ELITE FOUR MEMBER *ignores that i'm an 11-14 year old who's the champion/strong enough to defeat an AI using the battle data of all previous champions in Paldea combined*"
Man, this shit is not hard to understand.>Elite 4 are the four strongest trainers in the region>To become Champion, you must beat them>Once a Champion is crowned, they become the undisputed strongest in the region>If they vacate their post (Red) or are defeated (Lance in Johto), they are replaced by whomever defeats the Elite Four (and them, if they aren't vacant) after themThis is literally spelled out in every single game. There was no Champion of Kanto's league before Blue defeated the Elite 4.
>>59138510I'm claiming this territory for Lance and Blue, everyone discuss Kanto boys with birbs now, birb supremacy
>>59138643They don't read optional dialogue and played other games first, so they missed the letter on Oak's computer from the Indigo League and thus automatically assumed the champion would be some random loser they've never heard of before.
>>59138648I like Pidgeot but it was always odd to me how Blue ended up with it in his final team. You'd think they would give him something more intimidating than the route 1 bird you probably caught and forgot about.
>>59136328>You have to defeat the elite 4 then the champion to become champion in every pokemon gamesun and moon
>>59138655This is what I've been talking about this thread about how later games don't even understand what Gen I was doing. If there's just a universal Champion in the region, what does the Elite Four even add to the League? Thematically, Gen I's Elite Four were all seen as "the strongest trainers in the region" while in later games they're just the Champion's underlings. Why does the Champion have underlings? What does an Elite Four even add if they aren't the final boss? Gameplay? It's dogshit worldbuilding like this that get the Masuda games clowned on for having bad writing and forgettable characters because everything is means to an end for "more Pokemon" and makes for an incredibly lazy looking series
>>59138913Kukui effectively serves as your Champion Fight as the founder of the Alola League. He's not literally the champion, but you can't be crowned champion until you beat him, so for all intents and purposes, he's functionally identical.Galar's the real standout that lacks anything resembling an Elite Four because it uses a tournament to decide who gets to fight Leon.
>>59138941>Gen I's Elite Four were all seen as "the strongest trainers in the region" while in later games they're just the Champion's underlings.Huh?Why don't you think all the later Elite Fours are the strongest trainers too?
>>59138941>MASUDA MASUDA MASUDA MASUDA MASUDAHe fucking mindbroke you faggot. Your obsession over this man have warp you to blaming the man for every bad thing thing that happen in the series. Why are you acting like this is a Pokémon only thing when MANY games literally reuse the same motif multiple times? Don't forget that Red and Blue (Green in Japan) had Sabrina carrying a whip, a leftover from the games beta day, so it's not all peachy as you thing.
>>59138941> It's dogshit worldbuilding like this that get the Masuda games clowned on for having bad writing and forgettable characters bThat’s not Masuda’s fault. That’s all Pokémon games pre Gen 7 and even then Gen 7 was basically the Lillie show. Gen 8’s writing and characters are even worse than anything before it.
>>59138941The GS prototype exists and probably predated Masuda as director, I recommend you check out that before being a retard again
>>59138964Because there's already a strongest trainer in the region. They don't provide any added story context, they're just there because Kanto did it. At least the evil teams were different in every game, what does the Elite Four do differently? Exist?>>59138977Because they reuse the same motifs due to laziness, and now they're "expected" to be in every game and we only started getting real variety the moment his ass was kicked out of Game Freak. The games being shit are because Game Freak are used to making games shitty, since Masuda's a shitty director>>59138990>That’s not Masuda’s faultWho the fuck made those games?>>59138997Yeah back then the game was an all of Japan sequel. The context is that the league focuses on the entirety of Japan and is centered in the same place as Kanto's league (Mt. Fuji) and this is unchanged in the finished GS release. As a sequel, this makes sense. Later games do not
>>59136273Lance. Dude has a lot of Dragonites.
