It doesn't matter if you, or anyone from VGC actually likes Champions. This thing lives or dies based on how popular it is among the casual crowd.This thing is going to be playable on the phone. Their intention is for normalfags to pick it up like any other gacha, buy the battle pass, buy the membership, and purchase new pokemon or moves.This game isn't for people who actually like pokemon, it's just a cash grab. But the big question is, does your average person actually WANT to play a competitive pokemon battling simulator? TCG Pocket was a bit of a novel fad before it died down, this just feels like it won't even get off the ground.
>>59146190>is pokemon>isnt a legends shovelware destined to flopIt will be extremely popular
>>59146190Will WawaaWiwaa have no online pvp?
>>59146190>But the big question is, does your average person actually WANT to play a competitive pokemon battling simulator?Of course not lol this isn’t even a qo
>>59146190Like every gacha ever made it is for the small number of whales who will spend thousands rather than the majority or the few with standards. Compfags will also be forced to pay if they want to compete though, because they are definitely doing every tournament through this flop from now on.
>Casual joins>Gets shitmon from recruit>No idea how to team build or EV or proper moves/ability>Gets shit on in ladder>Quits>Even before talking how grindy(or p2w) everything is to upgrade on your pokemon Any competitive game is like that. You have to make a brand new port aimed for casuals that's totally braindead like pokemon pocket for it to succeed. Throwing casuals into actual VGC/3v3 is just gonna make them quit.
>>59146190>It doesn't matter if you, or anyone from VGC actually likes ChampionsThe core fanbase drives the casual fanbase before them like cattle in this case. In order for this to be popular, people who popularize pokemon battling need to popularize this. It has to look exciting, which it only does if the people who are good at battling are making it look exciting.Any phone-only pokecasual will go right back to Go otherwise, it has way more of their favorites available and it requires far less effort to play.
>>59146190>Will Champions Become Popular?Lol no
>>59146206After 4 years of explosive growth in tournament attendance, I wonder if the first 3 regionals using Champions completely cratering those numbers would change their minds.
>boomer john starts up the game>no 6v6 like his good ol' days of running all offensives moves on the playground>stops playing>little timmy starts up the game>it's slow and boring, nothing to do but battles in which he keeps losing to 28 year old sweatlords>stops playing
As a filthy casual who never really fucks with VGC myself,>Less Pokemon than Stadium 2>Literally no support for muh 6v6 singles, unlike Stadium 2>No announcer, unlike Stadium 2 (though this is understandable given the breadth of moves and shit that we have now I guess)>No fun offline minigames, unlike Stadium 2>Can't use it to play other Pokemon games, unlike Stadium 2>No single-player modes with interesting Pokemon restrictions, unlike Stadium 2>More bugs than Stadium 2I get the point that it's a live service game, but idk, I feel like it's not unreasonable to expect a live service game to match the features of its 25-year-old forebear as a baseline. As it is, it's terribly barebones and not something I expect to keep playing very long
>>59146209>grindy>p2wthey literally give you the resources to fully ev train 20+ mon just for logging in
>>59146206Compfags are a minority.
>>59146190It's pokemon. Yes it will be super popular.
>>59146190Honestly the game feels like it released super early based on the insane bugs and weirdly lacking item and pokemon list. If I had to guess the version we were seeing at events and in trailers is the "full release" that will go live once the mobile version comes out
>>59146385>Launch freebiesThat dries up in all gachas
>>59146332For something meant to be a companion piece to ZA, I would expect it to at least have all of the Pokemon featured in that game as a baseline.
>>59146412It's not a companion piece.
>>59146385just like multiversus letting you unlock 4 characters right off the bat!! thanks generous game devs!
>>59146209>Casual joins>gets shit on in ladder>quitsyou're right, any game where this happens regularly could never ever ever be popular
>Never played competitive mon but I enjoy videos about it>Haven't played a mainline game since Sun/Moon>Get Aggron and Whimsicott first day>Oh Whimsicott has Tailwind, Helping Hand, and Prankster. Hey, I know what that is>Look up Aggron, people say it would be good with Body Press>It gets Body Press now>Already tore through Pokeball rank with Iron Defense -> Tailwind -> Helping Hand -> Body Press>Up 4-0 half of my matchesI'm having fun but I fully expect to get torn apart soon.
>>59146417The main selling point is using megas again, just as it was for ZA. ZA also doesn't feature traditional battles like Champions does.
>>59146425good shit goat. but don't let losses demoralize you. losing is learning.
>>59146417Retard.
>>59146425hell yeah brother, let me know if you want someone to practice against
>>59146423Something you're (probably purposefully) ignoring is that Pokemon is already an established game. If someone wasn't already grinding ranked in the console games, why would they start now? It's not like getting access to Pokemon has been difficult at any point int he past decade.
>>59146412Why would it be companion piece to L:ZA?It doesn't play anything like it.
>>59146425ANON WATCH OUT!LIVE SERVICE GAMES ALWAYS GIVE YOU FREE WINS EARLY ON!!!!YOU'RE GONNA GET MATCHED AGAINST WOLFE ON YOUR RANK UP GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>59146443To let you use the Pokemon introduced in it in a regular battle system.
>>59146443announced same time = MUST BE LE COMPANION PIECE retards
>>59146446Isn't that guy the most raped Pokemon player alive?
>>59146467The Kevin Nash of VGC...
>>59146412Mainlines aren't companion pieces.
This game is dogshit
Retarded question probably, but I never played competitive so I'll ask anyway. How do I go about building a team? What is the methodology? Like do I just pick my favorite mon and build around them or are certain mons completely unusable or what? What roles should I look for?
>switch chomp into qd>scarf outrage into bug buzz>20 seconds of thinking later he just ff'sall in a days work
This is pretty fun casually. Even though I just lost to a Pelipper Achaludon Inceniroar Basculegion team.
>>59146485the meta is untested right now so it's hard to say anything is "unusable", but some options might be nichefor team building, here's what I would reccomend>choose a pokemon, whether it's your favorite or one you think might be strong>look at its attributes, find what it does uniquely (this might be something obvious like "is the slowest pokemon that has drought", or something more sublte)>find a teammate for that mon that lets it take advantage of its attributes (for instance, if your first mon needs a turn to set up, give it redirection support, or if your mon is vulnerable to a specific strategy, something that can shut it down)repeat that process once or twice, then run that on ladder. Once you have a few games with that team you can take it back to training and make adjustments, rinse repeat.
>>59146442>If someone wasn't already grinding ranked in the console games, why would they start now?nta but I didn't want to spend $60/$70+ NSO membership + tip just to play multiplayer Pokemon, so Champions being free was a good enough reason for me to touch online for the first time since Pokemon X/Y. I also imagine that Go casuals would be pretty interested in seeing how their Pokemon from that game would fare in a competitive environment.
>>59146530you don't need NSO for f2p games.
ladder too sweaty to play moresafe to say the VP drops per match never stop tho
>>59146537I meant that you needed NSO for the mainline games Anon
I'm really missing the life orb
>>59146528Thanks, I'll give it a try!
>>59146554oh me dumb
>>59146552What is the meta like up there right now?
>>59146190>released with less pokemon than stadium 2>microtransactions>built to push the user to spend money if they want to have fun>doesn't even have mini gamesOne can only hope it doesn't.
Which format have you guys been enjoying more so far, Singles or doubles?
>>59146569lots of arch glim hippo mega gengar and mimikyu are really popular toosurprisingly nearly every team seems to be running hazards
>no salamence>no metagross>no annihilape>no 80% of the dex lmfao>half of the cool items out>runs like shit, looks even worse>bugs up the ass, in a game that was solved in the 90s>no private game mode customizationwhat's the point? genuinely, why would anyone bother with this mess of a game? it's so bad it's insane, from every possible metric it is shit.
>>59146502guys help pls
Why did the leakers leak abilities of mons that aren't in the game at launch like Golisopod?
>>59146597I did that, I haven't played a mainline game since XY, but I got Scarlet partly for Champions, also I wanted to see how Game Freak handled open world since Winds and Waves looked promising. I don't regret it, I haven't played much but it's pretty fun, and you can get it for like $30 on Ebay easily.
https://x.com/snacks_fruity2/status/2041880586457845879?s=20actually kinda based
>>59146597>should I waste my money just so I can play a worse smogon (which is already garbage btw)?I don't know, anon, should you?
>>59146597get scarlet to play scarlet. if you want to play pokemon pvp play showdown. under no circumstance should you spend money with the end goal of having something for this shit game. honestly if you want a pvp scene with the (slightly) nicer UI of official pokemon games just get scarlet and play pvp there, it is a million times better.
>>59146597if you played other games and wanted to bring your boys into a comp format without grinding i could maybe recommend itbut to pay premium to get guys you arent even really attached to?i wouldnt buy it just for champions
>>59146598Because he made it all up.
>>59146628i want to play champions because i unironically like battle passes and live service slop thoughbeit
Already deleted the game lol
>>59146643the pokemon company has truly cultivated the perfect consumers.
>veil in>all the ice setup mons are shitHOLY FUCK WHY IS THE ROSTER SO TINY AND AWFUL
>>59146190idk but i need kitt on my cock
VGC is already an acquired taste and no one is going to jump in because it's more available, it's not necessarily more accessible.VGC has grown tremendously in the last decade though. Champions has just as much potential to cordon off VGC from the main series ensuring that the legacy battle system dies in Champions as GF moves away from its heritage.
>>59146190No it won't beyond the competitive niche. The rest of the audience may check it but get bored quickly.>>59146200Yes it will.
>>59146643You're also buying gen 10, I presume?
>>59146785wasn't planning on it, but i might if champions reignites my interest in pokemon
>game released yesterday>still ZERO porn of cute tranny in pink tightsthe game is dead
>>59146817kitt is getting all the porn
>>59146198PLA is the #1 best selling pokemon game of all time
man no name gachaslop gets faster threads than thisis it cause its stuck on switch or what
>>59146854Bait used to be believable.
>>59146856>not a new concept since it's just the pvp that's always been in the games>pokemon pvp has never been popular and most people just play the campaigns>it's complete garbage for the few people that do play pvp>showdown is a much better, faster and easier alternative to start up at any point while also providing more content since you can hop on custom made modes like randbats or hackmons for funit's a mystery
>>59146832https://x.com/ENGAWUMAI/status/2027840482689311042Truke
>>59146882no other single pokemon game sold 15M+
>>59146883>smogoni know what kinda man you are
>>59146940>playing stall when you can hop on randies and watch the funny nazca lines mon do a stupid gimmick sweepishygdtt
Mamoswine is so good
>>59146993Be better if I had assault vest.I agree, Mamo is crucial on my team despite its problems. I can't deal with Chomp or Dnite otherwise.
>>59146993is it true they deleted ice shard
>>59146190I don't think soIt'll do well at first, but normies will get bored and wander off because they won't be able to beat the low elo stomp teams, and won't be invested enough to actually get better.Unironically the only way this game lives is if they add braindead bots to compstomp at low elo so normies can maintain a 70/30 win loss ratioAnyone invested enough in pokemon to play competitive, already plays Showdown. So will go back to Showdown.
>>59146485AlrightBasic principle.Most teams have one or two "real" pokemon on them. These are your win conditions and playmakers. The rest of your team is there to make your real pokemon able to do what they do, because if those pokemon are doing their job, you win. This can take a few different forms. Providing literal support, in the form of Tailwind, buff moves. Disrupting the enemy play, via things like Fake Out, Taunt, Intimidate. Eliminating high profile meta pokemon to gain momentum and shut down your oppinent's play maker. Covering your win conditions against bad matchups, or strategies that beat your win condition. Or more.So you start with the "real" pokemon, typically these are going to be setup sweepers or walls, or something with a gameplan that's hard to stop once it's going, but more esoteric stuff works sometimes. Then you work backwards solving the problems you expect them to encounter. Pretend you lost, and identify why that likely happened. For example. And this is extremely simplified, with holes in it, identifying the flaws with this example is useful for building the rest of your teamMy Agility Mega Metagross has failed. Why? Well, with my movepool I can't really do much to Water/Dark types, so I need something to deal with those. But Metagross doesn't have/can't fit that move itself. OrMy Metagross struggles immensely if it still gets outsped after I boost. I need something to prevent my Metagross from being paralyzed. Hey, I can solve both these problems with a reasonably fast Electric pokemon with Lightningrod. Protects Metagross from Thunder Wave, while also killing some of the water types Metagross struggles with. Metagross can kill everything else, I am winning now. Or maybe metagross needs to get moving faster. The Agility turn is fucking me up. So, pick a Tailwind pokemon. Whimsicott can do that, and hey, even still covers water types.
>>>59146190There’s no fucking way this becomes popular with normalfags, phone games live thanks to having brain dead gameplay that you can just pick up and play while you take a shit, hell most of them have an auto play button so the game plays itself while you do other shitNormalfags will try it, lose and uninstall it i really think they should have focused on real fans of pokemon battles by including every pokemon and every item from the start, they can ban whatever they want from ranked play but they could be making a ton of money with a skin shop that changes the way your pokemon looks
>>59147531If you want to use a specific pokemon, then identify what it can do. Identify if it's a playmaker who wins games, or a problem solver who helps your playmaker win games. Some pokemon can do both. Aggron, for example. You COULD use it as a playmaker with Iron Defense Body Press, or you could use it as a problem solver, leveraging its raw physical bulk to wall physical opponents, and use shit like thunder wave to slow them down, maybe do paraflinch.Hell, for some pokemon you might even be able to do these on the same set, Aggron could usually be a problem solver that shuts down things your playmaker hates, but could opportunistically pivot into BEING the playmaker against certain teams. Usually pokemon end up having to sacrifice a bit of efficacy to do this, such an Aggron might lack certain coverage it relies on to deal with, say, Ghosts, because it is using those move slots for its problem solver roles, but that is an option.But every pokemon on the team SHOULD be put there with one of the two in mind first and foremost, at least until you develop better intuition about what can do what, under what conditions
>>59146190>TCG Pocket was a bit of a novel fad before it died downIt's still the top 5 gacha on the market revenue-wise
>>59147544>they should have focused on real fans of pokemon battles by including every pokemon and every item from the startDon't tell me you bought into the "we don't want to overwhelm new players" excuseThis is on purpose so that they have a way to create new excitement each season. Come a few months from now people will have drifted away and then maybe they'll add Metagross and Life Orb and those people will come back and buy the new battle pass and renew their membership. Be prepared for this game to still be missing some pokemon 8 years from now. That strategy worked for pokemon go after all
>>59147571And it's been bleeding players for a year.
>>59147679Based
>>59146190>less Pokemon than a Wii game>less items than a Wii game>no custom battle formats, unlike the Wii game>no single player content, unlike the Wii game>worse animations and vfx than a Wii game>no announcer, unlike the Wii game>can't play as an adult, unlike the Wii game>more bugs than the Wii game>worse music than a Wii game>no minigames, unlike a N64 gamePBR wasn't even well-received when it came out, Champions is going to flop.
>want to run mega beedrill>the fucking mega stone isnt even in the shop welp
>>59149218You get it plus a bunch of other mega stones as a reward for doing the tutorial.
>lose once >have to fight a bot epic game gay freak
>>59146190>TCG Pocket was a bit of a novel fad before it died down, this just feels like it won't even get off the ground.This launch has been a train wreck, I don't see it catching on
>>59146332>No announceryet another missed opportunity, they could sell announcer packs
>>59147555Not the anon you replied to but this is a very nice summary of the concept.One thing worth noting about VGC and its bring 4 format is it’s sometimes worthwhile to try and fit two overlapping “modes” on a team; two different win conditions and support structures depending on what you face.The classic example is the tailroom hybrid; a slow, bulky tank can be powerful if trick room enables it to move first. But against teams with even slower pokemon, that can be very dangerous. Tailwind, by contrast, can also help this pokemon, but it’s less useful if the opponent can also set it, cancelling out the effect. So you might train your wincon to have a speed that is slow enough to outspeed most major threats in trick room, but still fast enough to counter others in tailwind. You put mons on the team that can set tailwind or trick room, among other things. But you never plan to bring both a tailwinder and a trick room setter; at team preview, you decide if you’re bringing “tailwind mode” or “trick room mode” based on what the opponent has.
>>59146190Depends on how the mobile launch goes. Pokemon Go was big with normies for a while, I guess it's still going but like all things the excitement's died out over time. Met some normie women who played Go and got all embarassed being caught doing nerd stuff.
>>59149181The animations in PBR were absolute dogshit, everything felt slower than DP.
>>59146190>But the big question is, does your average person actually WANT to play a competitive pokemon battling simulator?No. Competitive is the easiest thing to get into already; hence why it's been growing every year. Anyone not playing competitive is choosing not to play, not being gate kept. My kid participated in a Regional in the Juniors bracket. If seven year old can learn Gen 9 VGC, then it clearly doesn't need to be dumbed down. They would have been better off focusing on making Champions actually thorough and a robust replacement for SV VGC than chase casuals who don't want to play it anyways.
SV is better for getting into competitive than this is
