HOLY SHIT JUST CAPTURE THE FUCKING POKEMON AND USE HIM TO DEFEAT KADABRA YOU EMBARRASSING FUCKING FAGGOTIMAGINE HOW COOL COULD HAVE BEEN TO SEE A HAUNTER VS KADABRA FIGHT
Let's be fair, it wouldn't have listened to him anyway.
It would've been cool but I liked Haunter making Sabrina laugh to win.
Unless blud's planning on running Explosion, that haunter's not doing a goddamn thing to Kadabra before dying.
the main reason ash got gangar in journeys, was to fix this mistake.
rewatching the series made me realize that gen 1 actually killed pokemania because of the absurd amount of blue balling that happens. any cool pokemon ash could realistically catch? he wontfirst handful of badges just handed to himdidn't battle giovanni. completely wasted opportunitybarely evolved pokemon, his strongest one doesn't listen to him and fucks up his league battle even though Charizard fought against blaine's Magmar. could have at least had ash go down swinging. Ash losing that way was just the final straw
>>59167815I hated how he doesn't battle against any of the actual elite 4. most of which were non characters who barely even showed up despite having tons of potential for episodes. he lost to a mirror match oc instead
>>59167815The whole reason for ash not evolving his pokemon and the series blue balling was because of the Porygon episode. The series had to go on hiatus for 6 months but at that time they already were working on M1. You cant delay movie releases the same way you delay tv shows so they had to pivot hard to make sure ash's pokemon stayed the same at the time of the movies relase with the anime series while the original plan was for M1 to release along side the 8th gym badge episode. But since the porygon episode threw a wrench in all that they had to change the plan. Bulbasaur was supposed to evolve in the mysterious garden episode so it would be a venusaur by the time ash had the 8th badge. But since they couldnt put the brakes on the movie they had to keep it so ash had bulbasaur in M1. Pic related is a promo image circa 1999 of what ash's team was planned to be
>>59167923>TaurosRespect to OC Ash for realizing that it's a insanely broken piece of shit.
>>59167437This Haunter would eventually evolve into Gengar to help Ash win the WWF World Heavyweight Title
>>59167815I didn't like the pokemon anime that much because there was hardly any real fights and the ones shown were mostly underwhelming or unserious
>>59167940He had an entire herd of broken pieces of shits.
>>59167923I i thought that's was because of shudo non sense
>>59167437Gengar is too faggy, even for Ash.
>>59168285Thats crazy because Ash is the biggest faggot in his anime
>>59167815But anon, he did do cool things! You just had to wait 26 years!
>>59167815The moment I saw him leaving Viridian Forest, 9 year old me started kvetching>GO BACK AND CATCH A WEEDLE/KAKUNA/BEEDRILLThe Bill episode asserting he wants to catch them all only rubbed salt in the wound.
>>59167437small indie animation studioplease understand
>>59167815>catches Primeape>super strong but won't listen to him>learns to listen to him in the fighting type tournament>leaves him for "training" with a weak ass trainer who failed for 20 years to beat the tournament that Ash just swept with the Primeape that wasn't obeying half the timeI'm still mad. Primeape was already super strong. Its only issue was that it didn't obey Ash, but it already did by the end of the episode. This isn't even a Charizard situation. Because at least there, Charizard learned it was actually weak compared to other Charizard. Primeape was leagues stronger than every fighting type in that tournament. And more importantly, Charizard actually came back and got to do stuff in the future.
>>59167923I'm gonna assume they wanted Squirtle to evolve last because Blue came out later in Japan.
>>59167517Anime doesn't follow game logic. Pikachu beat Onix by setting off the sprinklers in the building.
>>59167815Season 1 was supposed to be the full anime. It was just supposed to be an ad for Gold. Ash was supposed to win the League, because it was supposed to be the end.They didn't want the gravy train to end, so he lost.
>>59170578By the logic of it doesn't follow logic, him not catching it and it making Sabrina laugh is a perfectly reasonable result
>>59167923Is there some kind of source for this? I would like to know more about the making and planning of the anime.
why didnt ash simply kill primeape to evolve it?
>>59167437This is every single one of Ash's PokémonImagine if Ash actually kept and evolved his Pokémon instead of just stumbling through fights with Pikachu, his shill starter and the regional bird. Dude is sitting on thirty Tauros during Gen 1!
>NOOOO, WHY THE ANIME DOES NOT SHOW ASH AS GENERIC COMPETITIVE TRAINER!!11Simple, because you watched Pokemon anime when you were 6yo, still shitting in your pants, with your foot deep in your throat and generally just don't remember shit from it.Kanto and Johto Ash was not a "strong" trainer per say, his skills were mediocre at best. His most notable good point was being just a kid - easily excited, extremely creative and good natured. That was good and actually I'll argue as character this and SM Ash were the most pleasant to watch.Ash catching strong Pokemon and actually showing some competence in being a trainer would not be Ash-like. Every battle against gym leader in Kanto and Johto with maybe exception of Blaine involved some kind of shenanigans or gimmick strategy.In Orange Islands Ash was kind of carried by core of Charizard, Snorlax and Larpas and fact that by design Gyms there had some non-combat challenges, too.Issue started in Hoenn when they decided to keep Ash around despite his rivarly with Gary ending. He stopped being just an easily excited kiddo but also could not be portrayed as this super competent pro just yet so he was in that limbo of being mediocre at best.
>>59171769I dunno m8. Every other anime protagonist nuts up and becomes competent Why is Ash allowed to be some ahitty side character that wins 5th place at every tournament?
>>59171787Because every other anime ultimately ends or swaps protags or gets into the trap where they need to invent another level of God-level enemies.In ideal world Ash would be retired right after Johto or at the very least Sinnoh where his competence and creativity combined into pretty interesting and strong battle style. But alas, Show must go on and writers started jumping around with his skill level all over the place after that.
>>59171787Also, define "anime protagonist"If you'll say shounenslop like Naruto or Goku I'll fucking laugh at you because that's fucking wrong comparison. OG Ash is more of a kodomo protag, he was supposed to be relatable for actual kids.
>>59171813NTA but most kodomo protags show just as much growth and competence as shounen protags (bakugan, beyblade).
>>59167815>barely evolved pokemon, his strongest one doesn't listen to him and fucks up his league battle even though Charizard fought against blaine's Magmar.Honestly it was cool to see this reference at traded pokemon leveling faster and not obeying you
>>59172211Interesting, I never made that connection.That said it still irks me. You'd think Char would be Ash's most loyal pokemon after saving his life.
>>59171813Tyson/Takao from Beyblade, a kid who originally just enjoyed the game as a non-serious hobby then takes it seriously and becomes deadset on being the best around. In G-Revolution he has a whole arc about being a champion, letting it get to his head, and then having to cope with friends wanting to make a name of their own.
>>59172267I mean it came out of nowhere, yes, so i would have made it gradual. Charmeleon has temper and is cocky, make him lose a couple of battles or experience some annoying stuff with Ash to make him lose his trust with Ash.
>>59172286Agreed. Either way I think he should have stayed Charmeleon longer, especially since he's one of my favorite stage 2s.
>>59172267Charmander is one of my top 3 pokemon, and it was awesome seeing him in the anime as a strong, dependable guy who would always be trying his hardest. I particularly remember the episode where Ash got lost in a snowstorm, and Charmander nearly killed himself in order to try and keep everyone warm (and alive). That episode in probably my favorite in the series, because it felt like the relationship between Ash and his pokemon really leveled up. They really showed how much they cared for each other, and I thought that bond would be what ultimately elevates Ash above his peers.And then Charmander evolved and turned into a lazy asshole.It's good they gave him some personality beyond "cheerful obedience", and the idea of Charizard being Ash's unreliable ace is cool in theory, but the execution was terrible. It was just "This pokemon is now an unpredictable jerk who's personality is defined by whatever's convenient for the plot."Charizard still had plenty of great "jerk" moments, like his zero-hesitation immediate attack on Mewtwo in the first movie, but having him act like the relationship that Ash had built up with Charmander over the course of 30 episodes was just completely forgotten is pretty much tragic.
>>59172426Nips love their fucking tsunderes. "I-i-it's not like i want to h-h-help you win, baka satoshi"
>>59167437even as a kid, I stopped watching the anime as soon as I realized they liked to keep butchering what the games established
>>59172445I love tsundere too. But Charizard wasn't a tsundere, he was just a jerk, and also it's important to understand that no one like male tsunderes.
>throwing a ghost type out against a psychic pokemon, much less a gym leader that actually knows how to use moves
>>59167815Yeah as a kid I loved the games but watched Digimon instead of Pokémon because nothing happened in most episodes and when things happened they'd get resolved in some utterly retarded way instead of having a plain good fight
>>59172426I think there's an episode in Orange Isles where Charizard nearly freezes to death a second time and he's still a huge difficult cunt despite that
>>59167923You have no source for any of this thoughever. Mewtwo Strikes Back still takes place chronologically at about the same point it would have come out originally, around Episode 65 which is the Poke-Corral episode and the last one that featured a cameo by the armored Mewtwo. Bulbasaur's Garden is episode 51, which had already aired by the time the movie was out even with the shifted schedule (which only took the show off the air for 4 months, not 6).
>>59167437ETOP did it better
>>59170587Nah Shudo planned for a Johto anime too. The best time to end would have been Gotta Catch Ya Later. (You can tell because Johto replaced his old mons one at a time instead of dumping them at the start). Hell, Orange Islands didn't even originally have a subtitle it was just POKEMON same as S1.The second best time would have been end of Sinnoh. The series up until that point had been tonally and artstyle consistent and Ash's skill mostly improved linearly especially if you exclude Pikachu's level reset accidents that always happened. Meanwhile Unova turned Ash back into a S1 tier idiot, Kalos did a hard correction and was basically a Shonen anime, and then Sun and Moon changed the artstyle and tone completely to be slice of life because Yokai Watch made Gamefreak shit themselves.
>>59172729It takes place either right before or right after The Pi-Kahuna when Ash is on Seafoam. That's the only time Ash is off the mainland after Poke-Corral. The better question is when Movie 2 is
>>59167923Do you have a single fact to back this up?
>>59172784FYI from the guy who made that map sketch>Line is Ash's journey across the Orange Islands starting from Valencia (He got there in the first place on a blimp from Pallet Town and technically left the island on the blimp only to crash just off the coast of Tangelo) >Movie 2 has to be after leaving Fairchild Island, that's when Charizard Chills happens and Charizard becomes obedient, and he obeys in the film.>Movie 2 has to be before arriving on the deserted island in the northwest where The Stun Spore Detour happens, as that's when Misty gets Poliwag, who isn't in Movie 2 at all.The problem is combining the pokemon clues with the geography on the map doesn't help at all, because leaving Fairchild Island is the earliest point going to Shamouti makes sense, and leaving Milksweet is the latest possible point it makes sense. So there isn't any new data from combining them.
>>59172796>>59172784First off, you made a mistake. Cleopatra Island is actually where Charizard Chills is set which shrinks the viable options. You're gonna need some high quality autism to see this, but if I may make a suggestion, you're looking for an island we never see Ash leave to come before. This is the only shot in the entire film of the previous island Ash and crew were on, and they leave by boat with Maren. Maren is never in the show so any island we see them leave via Lapras is off limits.
>>59172550Ghost is supposed to have the advantage there. The real retardation is the only trio of ghosts in gen 1 were also poison type. Thanks a lot, Gamefreak.
>>59172842Ok, Food Fight and Double Trouble both end with Ash leaving visibly via Lapras. That leaves just 3 options for spots for Movie 2. >Inbetween Charizard Chills and Water War>Inbetween Water War and Food Fight>Inbetween Wacky Watching and Stun Spore
>>59172880There isn't a ton else I can give, but>We see a brief shot of what presumably was where Maren intended to take them before the storm washes them offcourse to Shamouti. That's pic related, lot's of big buildings.Then during the credits>The start of credits show they left Shamouti with Maren on her boat and we see them pull out of the harbour, but then it cuts to the gang on a rocky island with a waterfall camped out, then sailing on Lapras along a shore, and then on an island with big european style buildings and a port/canals(which is presumably the island they originally intended to go to), then some shots of Pallet Town and then Ash and crew on another empty island full of plants and jungle. The credits are overall kind of confusing chronologically. We see them wave goodbyes and sail off with Maren, but we never see them arrive anywhere with Maren or her boat, the next shot is them on that rocky island and then they're back to sailing on Lapras when they arrive in the next populated island. Then some shots of Ivy and Oak in Pallet, and then the crew on a different uninhabited island with jungle. There's clearly a lot off screen we don't see(did Maren drop them off at that Rocky isolated island? Was it actually a seperate island or just an isolated part of the island with the city given the next shot is Lapras hugging the coast? Why didn't Maren take them into port as was seemingly the original plan? Am I looking too deep into this? Yes). So it broadly depends on if you think that rocky island with waterfalls is a show location or not. I THINK the only island with a big city like the one in the credits and the one Maren was trying to get them to at that point in the anime is Kumquat, but I could be wrong.
>>59172937>>59172880Well then I must double, nah, triple my tism.>Cleopatra Island, the setting of Charizard Chills, does have a large beach>And does have a lot of greenary>And we end the episode still on the island>But it doesn't match the tree type like in the first picture and the beach looks different (albeit that might be ignorable)Also while they do get there by boat, it's specifically called out as a deserted island, Ash and Tad fought there for that exact reason and Team Rocket camped out to hide and repair their sub. Why would Maren pick them up here. This would also mean Water War is next, which is an urban island so presumably the city one. Possible? Sure, they both have harbors, and they describe arriving with a tired Lapras. But the buildings don't match and neither does the architecture. Possible, but it doesn't fully pass the smell test.
>>59172957Ok, next possible spot.>Water Wars interesting does NOT end with them leaving the island of Ascorbia Island, but rather walking overland to the 'next town' which has a port that can take them to the next island. >Even more interestingly, the next episode takes place on the next island, Butwal/Kunenbo, a FULL WEEK after they got there, and they've been stranded due to the intense currents>And it has mountains and rocky areas and water, not to the same degree as the rocky island in the film credits, but stillThis is an extremely tempting one because of the sheer amount of time that's unaccounted for, and the mention of recent storms generating currents(which would fit what happened in the Movie 2000).So after the events of water wars, Ash and the crew hiked to a separate port on Ascorbia Island that could take them to the next island. So they left Ascorbia via boat, a boat we never see. Then the next time we see them they're on Butwal Island after having been there a week. We never see them actually arrive there so the exact spot they pulled in. Maren's boat could have been how they left that 'other port on Ascorbia', then they detoured to Shamouti, movie happens, Maren takes them to Butwal and drops them there, they spend a week there stranded, and then leave for Kumquat once the currents improved. The only two problems are->1. Butwal does not have a major urban area like the one Maren was trying to get them to or the one we eventually see in the credits. So under this option that would be Kumquat Island, Ash originally intended to skip it, and after the events of the movie Maren diverted to Butwal instead. Then they take Lapras from there to Kumquat and that's what the credits depicted(which would work). >2. The currents in the movie seemingly stopped once the birds were free and controlled. I'd feel way more comfortable putting this AFTER Butwal, but them leaving on Lapras blocks that option.
>>59173010Ok last option is Wacky Watcher.The one obvious plus is that the plot involves Team Rocket luring Magikarp and there's a trailing of karp with them at the start of Movie 2....but that's kind of it. It doesn't really fit the credits, and Stun Spore island doesn't look like any of them except maaaybe the jungle, which would imply they visited a rocky island and city inbetween which...no. Pumello doesn't look like that and the timing is wrong. This one is pretty unlikely to the point I almost wanna say it's firmly debunked(the opening HEAVILY implies they arrived by Lapis and not by boat, and the credits make any weird shuffling impossible) So it's probably one of these two >>59172957>>59173010Also, both of these in Japan aired with special features in the Prof Oak segment promoting the second movie. The movie in Japan actually aired right before Charizard Chills(which we know doesn't work because he obeys in Movie 2), but the 'special promotion' segments only ended after Water Wars, which was the last episode to have them. So funnily enough just like Movie 1 where geography and timing and the way episodes start and end ruled it down to two episodes back to back in a prior thread (either after The Evolution Solution and before The Pi-Kahuna, or or after The Pi-Kahuna and before Make Room for Gloom), we've ended up at the same impass here (Either after Charizard Chills and before The Water Wars, or after The Water Wars and before Food Fight).I'll fully admit I'm skimming though and didn't watch the full Japanese episodes(just a summary of those and a skim of the start and end of English ones), so maybe one of you anons can come to solider conclusions on these two mysteries
>>59167437>IMAGINE HOW COOL COULD HAVE BEEN TO SEE A HAUNTER VS KADABRA FIGHT>Sabrina sent out Kadabra!>Go! Haunter!>Kadabra used PSYCHIC!>It's Super Effective!>Haunter fainted!
>>59172267It was implied that specifically Paras episode was when Ash seriously hurt pride of Charmeleon. It was the first major time when Charmeleon was giving Ash problems because Ash wanted him to job to a fucking Paras.It was actually pretty consistently shown that Charizard was unwilling to fight against opponents he considered weak (most notably Richie's Pikachu) but enjoyed fighting against strong enemies like Blaine's Magmar or Aerodactyl.
>>59174025I in fact had image for this post but I forgot to post it hurr durr...
>>59167815FVCKINGTRVKIENVKIE
>>59171621i'm going to get saffron badge by making sabrina cum
>>59171675>>59172792I believe him, going by the last episode before the Orange Islands Arc, the 1999 in the corner of the pic (higher res version related) sort of supports this, Bulbasaur was going to evolve and Charizard was going to be his main Pokemon going forward, which also ties into Charizard finally respecting Ash and working with him. Venusaur could have been the second runner up and then Pikachu as the third wheel.A decent dynamic that never came to be.
>>59167815You don't understand, anon. Showing kids that they can succeed in this world with "effort" and "guts" or whatever? Nah nah nah, can't have anything like that. It wouldn't be morally sound to mislead them at an age when they're still impressionable.
>>59167815One thing I noticed is that the early anime seemed to imply that training a fully evolved Pokemon generally took more time and experience. You either go to the trouble of catching them fully evolved and risk disobedience or you raise them from their base form which takes time unless they naturally evolve fast like bug types.Ash having a team of mostly NFEs wasn't that strange, plenty of trainers even at the Indigo League were like that, like Ritchie or that girl with the super strong Bellsprout.Ash's Charizard and Kingler evolving so fast were basically flukes, and in the former's case he paid the price for it.By the time of Johto this was more or less phased out, and Ash was the only guy sending out his first stage starters against fully evolved teams.
>>59174610>sometimes you try your hardest and still lose, but you have to pick yourself up and keep going>”nooooooo Ash should win he deserves it we live in a just world as long as you try hard you’ll win and if you lose you just weren’t trying hard enough!”>crashes out at 30 years old in an endless self improvement-depression death spiral
>>59172729>thougheverpost dicarded past this point
