Bug, Rock and Ice. How would you make them better without making them overpowered?
>>59213943Rock and Ice are fine, campaignshitter.
>>59213943Bug>no longer resisted by fairy and fighting >U-turn distribution is decreased among non-bugs Rock >ONLY Rock types get stealth roof >get an 10% accuracy boost when using Rock moves Ice >resists water and flying
>see thread>expect first post to be kojoshit>open thread>first post is kojoshitI should be a Psychic-type gym leader...
>>59213943>Bugmake U-turn way, way less common, and pretty much only give it to Bug-types and maybe a couple outliers like Flygon. Also get rid of fairy and ghost resisting bug, that's gay. It would probably be much better with just that alone.>RockRemove either the water or grass weakness. That would probably be good enough considering how strong Rock is offensively; you don't want the few strong rock-types to become ludicrously good.>IceResist Water and Flying, immune to Burn (because they just should be, ok?). That should be enough.
>>59213958>Psychicnow there's a type that needs a buff
>>59213943How'd you make Archeops good?
>>59213968Never take a hit.
>>59213959>>59213954Ice already resists flying.
>>59213968Watch the world burn and give it Speed Boost.
>>59213945All the Pokémon of those types that are good, are good despite the typing, not because of the type
>>59213982You're going to make him very upset by saying this.
>>59213967Ehh it's one of the strongest types. Good against Fighting and Poison, two really common types
>>59213975How do I do that when my opponents always outspeed
>>59213967The only way to buff Psychic is to decrease the amount of Dark coverage the game has. Every fucking mon has Knock Off, Crunch or Dark Pulse. Removing Pursuit helps a lot, but the main reason Fairy is better than Psychic is because it resists Dark rather than being weak to it. I don't think there's really a way to buff Psychic without unintentionally making it OP again, otherwise
>>59213943>BugAgree with the U-turn distribution decrease. Maybe they could get a hazard resistance inherent to the type? Spikes and Rocks do half damage, 2 layers of Toxic Spikes only regularly poison, 1 layer does nothing, immunity to Sticky Web.>RockThe thing about Rock is that everyone loves to have Rock moves, but no one wants to be the Rock type, so you can't really boost it offensively. A self resist could be pretty nice as would a Stealth Rock absorbtion. Ghost resistance could also be fitting, Purifying Salt logic but applied to other types. Maybe slightly decrease the accuract of Rock type moves, but increase their accuracy if a Rock type is using it. I'm trying not to buff Aerodactyl too much as he really is a bastard in Champions. Any of these buffs alone might be enough, but all of them together would be too strong.>IceIce has a similar offense problem that Rock has. It's also really really shit offensively. So, we need to solve a problem that makes Ice attacks worse when used by non Ice types, but buffs their defensive utility, or at least switch-ins. I think turning their self resist into a full on immunity does both of those things. Imagine how amazing it would feel if you could completely switch into a Specs Kyurem Ice Beam/Freeze Dry. Imagine everything that uses Ice as a coverage option can't use it for free. No other defensive buffs.
>>59213982>Tyranitar having STAB on one of the most obnoxious moves in the game and massive sp def thanks to its ability has nothing to do with its typeretard
>>59213990Tell me you’re a campaignshitter without telling me you’re a campaignshitter.
>>59213998Ttar is one of the few outliers. Also interestiny, it'd still be really powerful even if it was a different type.
>>59214001I don't know what a campaignshitter is. I just play Showdown and Champions
>>59213998>>59214003Meh ttar needs a buff to keep it ou with all the power creep in the last 2 gens
I wonder if Kojo is the same guy who says "extinct for a reason" like an absolute schmuck if you say that a fossil Pokemon needs a buff.
>>59214003>B-BUT THE GOOD POKEMON ARE OUTLIERS!!That’s every type, retard.
>>59213967Psychic's biggest problem right now is that it's weak against Knock Off, Sucker Punch, and U-Turn. If you don't deal with those, then it doesn't matter if you make something else weak to Psychic or give it better moves.
>>59214003Ghost/rock regional ttar when
>>59213943>rock>ice>needing a buffretard
>>59214041Stop outlierfagging retard
>>59214041How would you respond if the weaker Pokemon with either (or both) of those typings had their stats buffed and/or abilities and/or movepools changed?Would you freak out if that also included fossil Pokemon because "they're extinct for a reason"?
>>59214047Stop campaignshitterfagging retard
>>59214054He probably would lmfao
>>59214057Given the amount of "ExTinCt FoR a reasON" that was spammed every time even the smallest of suggestions was made for a Pokemon like Bastiodon or Aurorus I wouldn't be surpised if he ends up freaking out like Chis-Chan did over Sonic's arms being blue in Sonic Boom.
>>59214054look at the 7th pokemon in that image, retard
>>59214025Nope. Some Pokémon are good because of their type, some are good regardless (like most good Ice types). It's the same in the reverse as well.
>>59214070>Some Pokémon are good because of their type,There isn’t a single Pokemon in existence that’s good because of its type.
>>59214040That'd be kinda cool actually Again, outliers. Most of those don't need their type to be good. If you swapped Aerodactyl's type and movepool, it'd likely be just as good.
>>59214068So I guess Rampardos, Bastiodon, Tyrantrum, and Aurorus are supposed to go fuck themselves and die then, Kojo?
>>59214041Those Pokemon are broken and overpowered. IT has nothing to do with typing.
What was GF thinking with Avalugg? Massive MASSIVE DEF but even the weakest special attack with OHKO it.
>>59214089Isn’t this just the opposite of blissey
>>59214083>th-they’re good because of reasons other than their type!You’re so close to getting it but your campaignshitter brain is so rotted you can’t reach that final step
>get BTFO in argumentUHHHH YOURE A campaignshitter!
Amazing to think this all started because someone said that Grass was weak.https://arch.b4k.dev/vp/thread/51219170/#q51219581And then the second post was about Ice.https://arch.b4k.dev/vp/thread/54349252/#q54351337Why was Kojo allowed to go on this shitty Indian crusade for almost four years?
>>59214041It's really sad that the only way you can have any success as an Ice type is if you get the weather summoning ability that interacts with everything you could ever want or rely on a teammate's ability setting up the weather that interacts with everything you could ever want. Fire and Water types absolutely love their weathers, but if no weather existed in the game/format, they'd still be very good typings. Ice can't really say the same. Unless your name is Kyurem of course. Or if you're a tera hog.
>>59214107Why are people who are dogshit at the game and don't even play PvP allowed to spread their shitty balancing suggestions for four years?
>>59214107because you had multiple chances to get the fuck off this shitty board filled with mods who don't care and never took them
>>59213943Here some of my stupid ideas >BugMake it neutral against Ghost and Fairy Bug is meant to be weak offensively but there's no reason they shouldn't be neutral against these types If you really want bug to have a strong buff add a bug type move that always deals neutral damage and has 75/80 BP. >Rock Honestly I think Rock is pretty strong already, one thing I would give it is either to make it so rock type Pokemon clear spikes or stealth rocks on entry or buff the accuracy of weaker rock type moves that mostly serve a utility role (shit like Smack down or rock tomb I don't know)>Ice Ice is honestly better than ever. The only change I would make is to make it resist water so both types mutually resist each other
Why the fuck is bug attack weak to fairy? It makes zero sense.
>>59214127It literally took months for them to get rid of Ivyshart and his poo-ridden script that bumped threads out of page 10.
>>59213943If a move is not very effective, it cannot proc secondary effects>rock types cannot be flinched by fake out, burned by heat wave or get a status from dire clawIce type moves deal SE damage to water types, but only if used by ice type pokemonBug resists fairy and is SE on fairy.
>>59214074Oh really?Incineroar.
>>59214152>Bug resists fairy and is SE on fairy.The Mega Meganium detractors would have throbbing boners over this.
>>59214092The type isn't the only thing that makes them good. For most of the Pokémon here, they'd be no different with a type change
>>59214119Because they do play competetive, or at the very least watch videos on competetive made by people with real tournament results.
@59213976
>>59214200Meant for >>59213976
>>59214203I intentionally didn't (You) him nigger
>>59214207I know.
>>59213943Rock resist ghost.Ice resist fairy as it was intended.Bug is fine, look at volcarona.
>>59214216>Ice resist fairy as it was intended.Not even a Burn Heal would prevent Kojo's meltdown if that happened.
>>59213958>kojoshitWhat's this, namefag who spams "campaignshitter" as if it's some kind of deeply hurt insult?
>>59214398Some guy on Twitter whose posting habits are very similar to Yawnfag's on here.- both shit on gen 5 (and samurott)- both refer to Smogon as "fanfic"- both shit on animalistic Pokemon
>>59213943Rock loses grass weaknessRock can't be poisoned(still can be damaged by poison moves)Rock types cannot flinchIce loses rock weaknessIce gains water resistGhost, poison and fairy lose bug resistance>bonusWater and Bug gain poison weaknessFlying loses rock weaknessGrass loses flying weaknessFlying loses grass resistanceSteel types get back dark resistanceSteel types are weak to electricityDark imunity to psychic is changed to resistanceKnock off reduced to 45 base power.Psychic types cannot be confusedBurn only deals chip damage when it's applied, poison is the only status which deal continuous damage.
>>59213943>Bug resists Fairy (both types resist each other and Fairies are less busted)>Rock is no longer weak to Water (would also indirectly buff Grass since there's less overlap now)>Ice resists Ground (so Ice isn't objectively worse than being a Normal type)Any changes have to affect the Pokemon of that type rather than their offensive benefits, because they're already good as coverage moves.>>59213968Make Defeatist give 20% increased Atk/SpAtk while at full HP, so it's not ALL downside. Similarly, once Slow Start wears off it should give +1 Atk/Spd, and again every time the user switches in.Guess I'll post some other changes I'd make:>Justified grants immunity to Dark>"Ignorable Abilities" includes those that trigger from Contact (Static/Rough Skin) or a stat being reduces (Contrary)>Long Reach increases damage dealt to non-Grounded Pokemon by 20%>Early Bird grants +1 Speed on waking up from Sleep>Propeller Tail/Stalwart grant immunity to Encore and Torment
>>59213943It's dumb.When being below 50%, attack and spatk should increase because you are pissed and want your enemy to die and suffer.Even if you know you are outmatched, you want to at least cause as much suffering against the enemy as possible to spite them.
>>59213968Special attack isn't reduced by defeatist and give it a flying type version of Overheat
>>59213998Being dark is pulling a lot of the weight with ttar let's be honest. I mean look at how sad of a creature weakness policy-less rhyperior is.
>>59214074Archaludon literally could not work as any type combo other than what it currently is.
>>59214510>Make Defeatist give 20% increased Atk/SpAtk while at full HPThis is kind of what it does. I mean not really, but like, if Archeops had lower base attack and speed and its ability was “prideful: doubles this pokemon’s attack and speed when it has more than 50% HP remaining” people would be like>it has bad stats but that ability is absolutely nutsIt’s the same effect. Defeatist is just a pessimistic way of phrasing the ability.Imagine if multiscale was phrased as>this pokemon’s defenses are halved once it falls below full HPand they just doubled Dragonite’s defense stats. Whether an ability is PRESENTED as a buff or a nerf doesn’t really change the math but it sure seems to change perception.The only impact is that with a “nerf” ability you can power up the pokemon by suppressing it, whereas with a “buff” ability you can give it to a more powerful partner. Archeops doesn’t learn entrainment or skill swap so it would benefit even less from having Base 80 attack and base 55 speed with a “doubles the stats at high HP” ability than now, where you can just plop it next to weezing. It still doesn’t matter because in Powercreep: The Meta, 140 physical attack and 110 speed is just okay, and “just okay” can’t be conditional. It would need to have a pre-defeatist attack/speed pairing of like 165 and 135 to be actually interesting.
>>59214074Scyther and Scizor have same BST but Scizor is miles better due to its additional steel type,which makes it only having one weakness to Fire(4x).
does campaignshitter mean filthy casual or sweaty competitive player, i still don't understand
>>59213943>not a problem in gogo can't stop winning
>>59214985Means someone who is mentally locked into the campaign “box” as far as their thought processes and how they engage with the game.>I won’t play ranked because the campaign lets me use 6 Pokemon and ranked doesn’t>I only play Smogon singles because that lets me use 6 Pokemon like the campaign, here are my thoughts on competitive play (hyper fixation on which Pokemon typings are safe switches)
>>59213943Rock could use an accuracy boost when using its own moves, because they are better off used as coverage by Ground-types than as STAB.Make an Ice version of Shore Up to try and help out all of the shitty defensive Ice-types. Give them access to Water-type moves as well, it's only fair with how so many Water-types get Ice Beam and Blizzard.Bug is fine. Maybe make it immune to confusion. Bug-types have gotten a lot better since gen 5, now that they're not all being designed as early game filler that gets dropped quickly.
>>59214976Scizor is good for a lot of reasons.The typing is miles better, but so is its increased bulk and ability to mostly ignore its lowered speed by spamming a STAB and Technician-boosted priority move.
>>59214985it's just one schizo pushing it, it's complete nonsense.
>>59213943Bug:>make them super effective against FairyRock:>amplify accuracy of Rock moves in Sandstorm>weaken Water moves in SandstormIce:>resist Water>weaken Fire moves in Snow
>>59215115Ice types should melt and become water after being hit by a fire move or burned.
>>59213986he's gonna make himself upset either way
Ice:>Now resist Flying, Dragon, and Water, and is no longer weak to Fighting.>No longer resisted by Water and Steel, but now Rock, Ghost, and Fighting resist Ice. Rock>No longer super effective against Bug, and Grass now resist Rock.>No longer weak to Ground, and now also resists Dark and Ice.Bug>No longer resisted by Fairy or Ghost>Now weak to Poison instead of Rock>Now resist Psychic, Dark, Fairy, and Dragon, but no longer resist Grass or Fighting.
>>59215168That’s what happens to Ice type in cassette beasts
>>59214041Tbf, Aerodactyl learns Shadow Ball and had it since Gen 1, just like Gengar.
>>59214985It means anyone with isn’t an autistic contrarian.
>>59214480This picture is so funny wtf
>>59214041>Not a singular Ice-type in Top 10>Only 2 in the Top 60 and they both have an ability that directly buffs their own defense through the roofYep, Ice sucks based on this.
>>59214041>2 rocks, 1 bug, and 1 ice-type in the top 30>for a game that only has 200 pokemon>1 rock, 0 bug, and 0 ice in the top 10>when other types have way more representation
>>59215422>>59215425campaignshitter tip of the day: fairy type needs to be buffed because there's not a single one in top 10
>>59214976True. Everyone knows Scizor's type is the only thing that changes. It doesn't get better distributed stats, a better ability, or better moves. Bug/Steel is what makes it good. That's why Wormadam is one of the best Pokemon in the game and not a complete shitmon.
>>59215439>>59215430This but unironically
>>59215430Floette shows up before any bug or ice-type.
>>59213945>he thinks shadow ball is a gen 1 moveYou need a new catchphrase because you've kind of blown your credibility.
>>59214436>twitter expertThank god you're here
>>59213943>BugResists Dark and Psychic.>Rock and IceJust make faster ones lol. Which they have been doing, anyway, so the types are fine playing to their strengths.
>>59214956I get that, but we already have Pokemon with similar abilities (Wishiwashi is literally what you described except Schooling can't be disabled), Truant is more effective for ability swapping, and Archeops isn't nearly good enough to warrant a full downside in the first place. The point is to give Defeatist some sort of upside, firstly to buff an underwhelming Pokemon and second to make it useful outside Neutralizing Gas teams.
>>59215560>Just make faster ones lol.How is this supposed to help the slower ones by any chance?People are too ate up with the survival of the fittest ideology.
Ice shouldn't be weak to fighting, and fighting is way too fucking good so it's an easy change right there (all 3 types mentioned in this thread have a fighting weakness, lol)
>>59216970I support this not because it means that Aurorus wouldn't be 4X weak to fighting but because it would piss off Kojo.
Bug is now immune to Intimidate (unless the Intimidate user is also Bug type)
>>59215439>a better abilityLight Metal???
>>59213954>get an 10% accuracy boost when using Rock movesMake it 20%
>>59215050>>59215439Looking at what you have, not what could be. Scizor would be hot dogshit as any combination of Bug + a type with a 40 bp priority move except maybe water, but Scizor with flying, electric, and rock weaknesses is at best a side grade.
>>59215430campaignshitter tip of the day: Mega Floette is a shitmon
>>59218328>Scizor would be hot dogshit as any combination of Bug + a type with a 40 bp priority moveNo. Steel is the best combination with Bug defensively, but offensively it leaves a lot to be desired, especially in pre-fairy gens. Anything that would let it hit fire or steel-types would have been incredible. Even just keeping it to existing priority moves, Bug/Fighting would have made it more of an offensive threat than Heracross.
>>59215050So what you're saying is that the typing is only one factor that decides a Pokémon's viability?If only yawnie understood....>>59215168Okay, that's honestly kinda cool.>>59215439No but that's one of the biggest factors. If it was Bug/Flying it'd be significantly worse
