Were they testing the waters for a potential Pokemon anime without Ash and how it would be received?
>>59215775yeah
>>59215775Jimmy was just Ash but with a different design and not asexual. And now Roy is just Ash but black and with no goal. Every time they change the main character it will still just be Ash again but with a different name and appearance
>>59215819Jimmy was not just an ash clone. Ash clearly had autism and Jimmy has adhd
>>59215775Test or not, this is what they should've done. Every new generation, swap out the main characters with characters from the newest generation. I don't care if it meant that there had to be some convoluted reason as to why there was a Pikachu always around; it would've been a helluva lot more entertaining and enjoyable to see each generation get three to four seasons worth of anime episodes where characters and storylines unique to that region/gen given the full, main focus. The Ashime often condensed/skipped over plot points, storylines, and areas from the games, so having that stuff fleshed out would've been great.
>>59215850Was it Japanese or American fans that pissed and shat themselves when Tracy replaced Brock? I need to know which group to throw slurs at for kneecapping the anime with their strong arming
>>59215866Pokemon was going global at the time, and they were afraid Brock would be seen as a racist stereotype, so they replaced him with a "whiter" character.Then they realized nobody cared and brought Brock back
>>59215775>>59215819>>59215850Oh yeah Red and Gold are the only protags to get an anime counterpart.
>>59215775stupid design
>>59216322Didn't the Gen 5 characters get a short series too?
>>59215775I like them a 1000x more than Ash
>>59216414It was a trailer for BW2
>>59215775For me, its Kris/Marina
Chronicles still took place in the same world and mostly started side characters from Ash's show.They were just special episodes that TPCi slapped together and branded as "Chronicles".
>>59215850Blame shudo for ash stay for 25 years
>>59216978it's widely known that it's yuyama's faultshudo left 5 years into the show and died about 8 later, he didn't live to see half of the ashnime
Was Ash really that iconic? Pikachu I understand but couldn't They have just have a new protagonist with their own Pikachu every few gens?
>>59215819Roy is the most disappointing part of Horizons so far. XY battle bot Ash again because they're too lazy to write a new male lead. Even his team is soulless>fire starter>route 1 bird >Pikachu>Lucario (shiny)>Fug (shiny)There really was no ounce of thought or concern for him as a character when they came up with this lineup, it's purely "protagonist" quota fulfillment. I fucking hate every Ash except OS and SM, but he used to put weird freaks on his teams like Glalie, Boldore, and Hawlucha, at least.
>>59217034As someone who grew up with the original anime, yes. Ash was as big in merchandise at least in America, as Pikachu until the OS ended. One of the biggest Halloween costumes in 1999 and 2000 was Ash Ketchum, you could buy a felt costume kit at any Party City. Ash had action figures, talking toys, and the anime key arts of him were on all merchandise. Shirts, shoes, Burger King bags. It was ALWAYS Ash AND Pikachu. They were a pair, friends forever. In that lens, it makes sense that they were reluctant to remove him from the series. Especially if Japanese marketing had even close to the emphasis on Satoshi. Pikachu is the mascot and they can't dump him, but would kids have accepted a "new" Pikachu? After all, Pika couldn't leave Ash. Although it may not have mattered, thinking back I stopped watching the show at Advanced because Ash left all his old Pokemon behind anyway and it didn't feel right, what difference would a new protagonist have made?
>>59216322I hate that the boys got shafted and the girls were almost exclusively limited to cutesy/girly type goals like Contests and Showcases because Ash always had to be the only one that could challenge gyms. Like it would've been fun if, y'know, just once we could've had a female protagonist challenge gyms and compete in a league, while the male protagonist traveling with her competed in contests. Change it up a bit every time a new generation started to keep things fresh and interesting. Ash sticking around meant the male protags would never be in the anime, and the girl protags would also sometimes be MIA too (like in the case of the BW anime) or basically get the same recycled stories.
>>59215819Jimmy actually won battles, unlike TrAsh. Also he evolved his cyndaquil.
>>59216590>very clearly have feelings for each other>don't travel togetherWhat the fuck was their problem?
>>59215775Origins, Generations, and Evolutions show us how good a non ash anime Pokemon series could be
>>59218082Kris wants to be a stupid dancer. That0s not compatible with Jimmy wanting to win battles.
>>59217249>what difference would a new protagonist have made?This is the bitter pill every long-running show needs to swallow if they want to pretend to have continuity. Sentai does it because people age, but other merch shows like PreCure manage this effortlessly. A bad season will just get attributed to being a fluke instead of detrimental to the franchise. Moving on from Ash around ADV would've been ideal, but the desire to keep him evergreen only made the fanbase bitter about him instead of treating Ash as the secret sauce that makes Pokemon specialAsh could've been the best protagonist in a long-running series of multiple attempts to recreate the wheel, but instead he's remembered as a terrible protagonist who never grew and only had wins handed to him, even if he did earn it or not. But generally I think the anime staff just do not have it in them anymore to write a compelling protagonist because they were used to dumping all their ideas on the flexible Ash instead of trying to cultivate real MCsWe are far, far displaced from when the anime was the face of Pokemon
>>59218093>KrisSorry, who??
>>59215775wish they made specials like this for every generation
>>59215775Fun fact: Jimmy, Marina and Vincent made a cameo in Pokemon Journeys
>>59218133
>>59218132retard
>>59218136And nobody gave a shit, because they are from johto
>>59218137just make the protagonists Brendan and Wally for gen 3, and Lucas and Bebe, the Storage System developer from Sinnoh, for gen 4. I guess
>>59216590>Shiny Nurse Joy>Cap backwards RedSuch original designs
>>59218138>retardNo, I'm pretty sure her name's Marina
>>59218166kill yourself, stupid
>>59217249>Especially if Japanese marketing had even close to the emphasis on SatoshiIt didn’t. Tajiri even commented on it in an interview that marketing in Japan focused almost solely on Pikachu and other Pokemon, while in the west it was a mix of both Ash and Pikachu as well as other Pokemon which he felt the latter was better since both the humans and the Pokemon are important to the series.
>>59218147>Bebe? rip barry
>>59218207>since both the humans and the Pokemon are important to the seriesIf by the humans you mean Team Rocket. I watched pokemon for the pokemon.When the games started to focus more on the trainers, It mogged the anime.
>>59215819>Horizon out of nowhere>>59215775Clearly not since everyone loved this and nothing came out of it.>>59217075> I fucking hate every Ash except OS and SMSo you wasted time watching everything else then?
>>59217020He is the one that's refused to let ash win indigo, and switch ash for jimmy.
>>59218147May and dawn would still be the secondary protags
>>59218327>>Horizon out of nowhereit's almost as if this thread was about the anime without Ash or something
>>59218957Ash winning Indigo would've been unsatisfying as fuck given Ash barely even won half his Gym Badges earnestly
>>59218957>Shudo didn’t want Ash to win the Indigo League so it’s his fault that the anime never changed protagonist in 25+ years even though he stopped working on the anime not even 5 years into its runHe was very vocal about not liking how formulaic the anime became and that Ash didn’t grow with his audience. He even said that the anime should keep switching protagonists so it’s always someone who the kids of the time can relate to.
>>59218965About the Jimmy one, not Horizon>>59219549>unsatisfying as fuckAs opposed to?
>>59218207Chalk it up to Ishihara really knowing his markets (or allowing the Americans to take the reins): Japan = mascot characters, USA = spunky cool kids.I think the idea of always showing the trainers is the right way to do it, it promoted the idea of it being a world of cooperation and friendship. That's why Jap merchandise tends to feel soulless to me, it's all just cutesy Sanrio tier mascot slop while the merch I grew up with was about bonds and brotherhood. >>59218296Meh, I think you'd have been an outlier then, especially with the way the Indigo season was done (the aforementioned lack of real combat scenes). I mean yeah, I was watching for cool Pokemon too, but the show created an interesting world and many of the episodes were about adventures with Pokemon or straight up people problems and that kept me tuning in. Ash, at least in the dub was funny, adventurous, and had a bit of attitude and was easy to root for, which is just another reason to watch. Kids want a hero, someone they can identify with.
>>59219609There's a reason Goku didn't win his first tournament. If you win off the bat, there's no real sense of challenge or stakes overcome. You're supposed to build up to a genuine victory over time. Yuyama didn't understand that because he didn't understand the show he was in charge of. The Pokemon anime wasn't conceived as this 'world of creatures' anime, which was their first mistake since giving Ash a goal to 'be the very best' was at odds with keeping him as an evergreen protagonist. If they wanted a show to go on forever, it should've been about Ash catching and studying every single Pokemon he'd ever encounter, which they couldn't even be bothered to do thatAsh should've won by Johto, Hoenn or Sinnoh and passed the torch to someone else so that we could naturally move on from him. But failing to do that made him a failure of a protagonist
He would be received just like Jaden.And then the next guy after him might just be forgotten. Can you name the last 4 Digimon or YGO protagonists?
>>59220073Kodomo male protag anime writers are a step below PreCure and Tokusatsu, we know. If they actually put an ounce of effort into differentiating male protags, this wouldn't be an issue, but when you make an advertisement first and an anime second your protags will end up eternally dogshit
>>59220013I’ve heard that the decision to prolong the anime and the Porygon seizure didn’t really change any plans they had for the Kanto storyline. If the anime had only gone for a single year like initially planned then him losing the Indigo League would have been a shit ending. Even if it had a message at the end that said he eventually became a Pokemon Master, it would still be the biggest let down to any kid watching.
>>59220340Sounds like Shudo. But the anime was never just going to end at Indigo, even if that's what they planned for. I think if he stuck around a little longer instead of the primordial suits of TPC fucking over Pokemon 3's ending, we would've gotten the proper end of Ash sooner than later. Giving Yuyama full reigns on the anime was clearly the issue, but also Shudo doesn't seem to be the type of person who would actually be able to stick the landing without Yuyama reigning him in, kind of like how Majora is equal parts Koizumi/Aonuma
>>59220340>it would still be the biggest let down to any kid watchingDepends how how he went out. The decision to continue the anime had been made long before Ash lost. Chances are, if he still had to lose, he would've lost more gracefully, and it would've been built up to in such a way that an open "the journey continues" sorta ending wouldn't have felt as unsatisfying.
>>59218166Not even the worst change. They could not even keep Vincent/Jackson's name right either in the English dub. Hence why I just said his name twice. He has a cameo in the Silver League conference and yes its the same character and mentions Kris/Marina and Gold/Jimmy.That aside little me absolutely coomed over this episode. I was a big fan of the anime and Ash but loved the Pokémon expanded universe and wished to see the other game characters so when I heard about chronicles and caught this episode on Cartoon Network back in the day I was over the moon. Its a shame they never did this again and you never saw Brendan, Lucas, Hilda, Hilbert, Nate, Rose, or Chicken ever appear in the show.
>>59218094The thing is its not even the undeserved wins. I see people bitch and whine more about times Ash should have won but the writing team made him lose for plot reasons. One of the most recants I saw talked about on the anime discussion where they mentioned the DP ep where brandon bodies Paul and then to rub salt in the wound they mention to Paul Ash beats Brandon. Ash then challenges Paul and Ash loses to Paul despite the logic that Ash was being glazed a bit for being able to accomplish what Paul could never do to avenge his brother's loss and what made him a smogon fag. That shit was what was annoying about the anime since for plot reasons Paul needed to be a threat and a foil to Ash despite past lore they themselves reference dictate Ash would be the better trainer.
>>59221930I’m pretty sure Paul’s brother points out that Ash put himself in a massive disadvantage by only using the Pokemon he caught in Sinnoh while Paul was very familiar with Ash’s Pokemon and could make strategies against them. Also it’s often glossed over that Ash only beat Brandon when he was using a recently caught Regice while against Paul he used all regis.
>>59221954Ash also called in backup from the OG Kanto trio. The episode was fanservice for old fags but I will have to admit it was pure Aura as the kids say when Charizard flies in. NVM I think that was against Nolan actually. Still point stands that I see what you mean that Ash's OGs are a high "level" in anime terms.
>>59216590
