BASED
Pfft, you wish. If it weren't for Rose, this idiot would be the most nonsensical villian.
>>59223804Hi yawnie
>>59223778I think Team Plasma was a strawman for people who find Pokémon battling and catching unethical.They intentionally made them stupid, hypocrites who kick munna to get its dust and mislead by a cultist leader who only acted in his own selfish interest to make all people who find Pokémon fighting unethical look like dumb mislead hypocrites by assosiation.Quite clever if you think about it.
>>59223876No, they toned down the subtlety because they were scared, the idea was always beyond good and evil.
>monster battling and catching game >villains are all people GIVE ME A MAN VS NATURE PLOTLINE NOWWWWW
Cool, I'll start.
>>59223778DENNIS
>>59223904Isn't that ZA?I find intelligent villains cooler than just forces of nature.
>>59223909Doesn't hydreigon canonically hate Ghetsis?First Ghetsis, then Sylveon. He must have har a tough life, especially for a pseudo legendary.
>>59223914At least in Mystery Dungeon they treated him with some respect.
>>59223929Maybe Team Plasma was right about kicking Munna
>>59223929Emphasis on "some".>Verification is not required.
>>59223804How so? At least Ghetsis has a plan. I personally think Maxie, Archie and Lysandre are worse
>>59224014Lysandre had a plan, at least half of him did. I don’t remember if it changed in X, but Y had a noble goal and he was never wrong. His biggest crime was being ugly himself, though they fixed this with his ZA glow up
>>59223804>>59224014The dumbest villains were Team Yell because they were literally just simps for that one fugly whore.Then Team Star because they are just teenage delinquents.Lysander also wasn't that smart because he constantly gave away that he was at least associated with Team Flare but Team Yell and Star make him look genious in compairson.
>>59224032Lysandre had a plan but he was completely retarded in how he executed it
>>59224042unrelated, but can we infer that the Holocaust never happened in the Pokemon world or that it wasn't called that considering lysander's company made a profit by selling holoca(u)sters
>>59224014>expand the land for the sake of humansMakes sense.>wash away humans for the sake of natureMakes sense.>become immortal and/or kill everyone else to restart societyHey, it worked for Highlander.>convince weak trainers, who were never an obstacle in the first place, to release their pokémon - meanwhile, the strongest trainers in the region still have theirs>empower yourself with a legendary monster that you know is weaker than those in not-Japan, while knowing about champions that are capable of beating those monsters>not even make an effort to find and secure your legendary monster before spending 20 years of your life grooming a -single- child to be a fake "chosen one" by having your minions LARP as a kingdom>when not doing that, have them secretly work around and below the government HQ to build an underground castle that will rise instantly one day without prior tests - just for shits and giggles>stop the 50% of your team that hates you and your plans from betraying you by simply threatening to kill the single child -that you don't even raise yourself- and hope they never realize that you need him alive or how easy it would be secure him>after making your child live a lie for 18 years, have him experience the real world for no reason and hope he doesn't wise up to what's going on >if all of that SOMEHOW works, your great strategy to control the legendary monster and use it for evil... is to kill the child it wanted to partner with then throw a Master Ball at itAbsolute. Nonsense.It's a wonder they ever let Junichi Masuda write again.
>>59224238Im not even going to read all that, Ghetsis wanted to rule ONLY unova as a dictatorship. Also he wanted political consensus. He needed the legendary just for its status, not for its strenght, his Hydreigon is stronger.
>>59224245>Im not even going to read all thatThen your opinion is worthless. Verification is not required.
>>59223778that's a dragqueen faggot cuck
>>59224032>Lots of people are awful>I will fix this... by killing all of the decent people and only letting the awful people live>"he was never wrong"He was completely retarded
>>59224307no this is based and the only way to be sure.
>>59223911> intelligent villainsSomething Pokémon has never had
>>59223778Ghetsis is shit and I'm tired of people pretending he is anything but a 1 dimensional cartoon villain. He exists just to scapegoat and bitch out of the conflict of the story.
>>59224323being a 1 dimensional cartoon villain is what makes him good
>>59224353No it isn't. At least Giovanni plays it straight. Team Plasma and Ghetsis pretend to have depth only for it to be pissed away because the writers are hacks and can't follow through with the central conceit of the narrative without realizing that the bad guys are right.So they make him a caricature hypocrite liar to bypass having to address it. its bad.
>>59223904There was that XY anime two-parter with the Malamar that was just plain evil.
>>59224431doesnt count, the pokemon needs to be bestial like that kid that got his shit wrecked by a salamance as a kid. protecting a village from a rouge pokemon would be kino
>>59224238Ok esl
>>59224245Well I wouldn't say his Hydreigon is stronger lorewise. Gameplaywise sure. It always outspeeds an OHKOs the Player's dragon. Also there's not much to read. They're ignoring a lot of big things that make Maxie, Archie and Lysandre retarded and the things that make Ghetsis less retarded. They haven't played the games. Their arguments I've seen before on Reddit.
>>59223778Wow, the Redditors are fighting hard tonight
>>59223784but that's a map not a chessboard???
>>59224882He uses the chess pieces as hypothetical armies to coordinate attacks against Unova
>>59224119Who knowsMaybe it's explored when Gamefreak makes Poke-Germany
>>59224384>because the writers are hacks and can't follow through with the central conceit of the narrative"pokemon are le bad" is not the central conceit of the narrative
>>59223778Cartoon villain ass. I don't know why anyone likes this clown, he's ridiculous
>>59225389Same reason of Kefka Palazzo
>>59225326No one said that it was, idiot. The conceit is whether or not people are abusing pokemon by catching them and battling with them.Then Ghetsis comes along to be a way to avoid giving an answer because he is a shit eater using it as a pretense.
>>59225471Kefka would make you drown in acid for that.
>>59225389BW fans are pretentious theater fags. It's all about the theatrics for them, so it doesn't matter how stupid the story and characters really are.This is why they get filtered hard by Cyrus & Giovanni; they are too dumb to figure out the former and too vain to appreciate the latter.>Verfication is not required.
>>59224664>>59224682>entire "argument" is baseless name-callingCompletely worthless and beyond pathetic. Typical Ghetsis fan.
>>59225877>BW fans are pretentious theater fags. It's all about the theatrics for them, so it doesn't matter how stupid the story and characters really are.In my opinion it's the opposite, BW haters suffer of literalism, they are unable to grasp the implications of a sentence, they see only its literal meaning
>>59226142>this stupid thing is clever if you do mental gymnasticsLOL- LMAO, even.
>>59226142What's the "deeper implication" of Ghetsis being an extremely obvious bad guy who unironically laughs like "muhaha"?
>>59226352That childish laugh doesn't diminish the rest of the story. It's clearly a limitation GF imposed to make the game "lighter", it's debatable and I hate it too, but it doesn't invalidate everything else. Take the dialogue he has with Clay:"Clay. It's a pleasure to meet you. I am Ghetsis, of Team Plasma. I've come to pick up my associates who are in your care." "What's this? It seems as if there has been some misunderstanding. We only free Pokémon from wicked people." "Team Plasma also has an interest in Driftveil City. And we have many, many more members besides those who are here..." "A decision worthy of a businessman called the Miner King. Your grasp of the situation is outstanding. Well then, we will be taking our colleagues off your hands..." "Don't worry, my fellow servant of the king... We are two of the Seven Sages, are we not? Well then, everyone, I expect that we will meet again somewhere.""Here he isn't laughing like a caricature, he's veiledly intimidating him. It’s adult writing, he sounds like a realistic mobster
>>59226474>he sounds like a realistic mobsterBecause it reminded you of the "offer you can't refuse" scene from The Godfather? Even though the movie itself shits on what Ghetsis did, trying to pull that off with a bluff? You're an idiot.>veiledly intimidating him>It’s adult writingYou have confirmed everything >>59225877 said about you.
>>59226474>veiledlyYou gotta be kidding me. The "veil" you speak of is a fucking fishing net. There is nothing subtle or mature about this. A toddler would understand that it's a threat.
>>59223804Nah, I think Archie and Maxie in RSE are much worse. Those were the ones people bashed for nonsensical villains years ago. People also say Lysandre, but I don’t think he’s strictly bad, it’s just that the pokemon world is too idealized to really highlight why he does what he does.
>>59226568>>59226574It's good for YA/teen narrative, i don't see the issue, of course it's not MGS2 or whatever
>>59226142>n-no you see you don't understand the IMPLICATIONS of having to kick Munna in public for dream mist!!
>>59226615>good for YA/teen narrativeI was sixteen at the time BW came out and even then I thought it was shit.>i don't see the issueThat is your problem, not mine.
>>59226621>in publicdream yard is abandoned
>>59224238>>wash away humans for the sake of nature>Makes sense.You're retarded.
>>59226599See >>59224238.
>>59226626Enlighten me.
>>59226624Abandoned places are open to the public, correct.
>>59224039Finally some sense
>>59226631yeah, and who was there besides the grunts, the MC and Bianca? No one. Who would people believe? Two 14 year old kids or the group that was accepted by the legendary pokemon?
>>59226629Explain how flooding the world and killing life on land is helping nature.
>>59226642>flooding the world and killing life on landKyogre was doing that by herself, not because Archie wanted it. He just wanted the power to force humans to care more about nature and also literally wash off anything polluting the land/sea.What made Archie/Maxie dumb was trying to control forces of nature, not their goals. Them going "oh no, too much sun/water kills" is just a meme/joke.
>>59226627RSE, not ORAS.
>>59226703See >>59226682.
>>59226682>Kyogre was doing that by herself, not because Archie wanted it.And Archie didn't think to account for this, because?>He just wanted the power to force humans to care more about nature and also literally wash off anything polluting the land/seaThat's not his goal. His goal was to wipe out human civilization and return the world to its beginnings, so that Pokémon can live untainted by humanity's progress. They were 100% planning on flooding the earth and killing off people in the process.
>>59226682>by herselfbleed
>>59226718>Archie didn't think to account for this, because?That is the part that makes him dumb.>His goal was to wipe out human civilization and return the world to its beginnings, so that Pokémon can live untainted by humanity's progress.I haven't played RSE/ORAS in a while so I'll take your word for it.>were 100% planning on flooding the earthThen why did he not like it when Kyogre was literally doing that?>>59226721Since Gen8, Kyogre is implicitly female. Probably because the Leviathan is considered female too.
>>59226640All of this is missing the point. The fact that they are doing it at all within the first half an hour of the game, mere seconds after they present them as supposedly nuanced is laughable.Whether or not the main character would be believed is completely irrelevant.
>>59226746>Since [random made up garbage]Bleed!
>>59226746>Then why did he not like it when Kyogre was literally doing that?Because he realized the precious pokemon he wanted to help were going to die as well and that all life was literally at stake. He's a colossal dumbass.
>>59223906I see you are a man of culture.
>>59226765Making stuff up. Archie/And Maxie didn't know it would be as bad as it was. That's what is in the actual games.
>>59226788That's what I remember, both in RSE and ORAS. But I wasn't sure, so I was letting >>59226765 have the final word.
>>59226788Shelly literally warns him of this after his final battle with you. You're the one who's making shit up.
>>59226797>ShellyThat's Maxie. From Archie's point of view, he could very well be lying.
>>59226756>mere seconds after they present them as supposedly nuanced is laughable.And you're right, it's a childish scene, I'm just saying that in my opinion the emotional weight of the story holds up anyway, Ghetsis is an uncompromising manipulative narcissist with a plausible plan, N is an anti-hero you feel genuine empathy for, but you're right, if it wanted to be a moral clash (and it wanted to be), then it's a significant flaw, but I like it anyway
>>59226804>That's Maxie.You're right. However, he says this after Archie had a conversation with the crew observing Kyorge's progress from outside, to which even they said that it was far more than they thought.
>>59226818You can see here that he's already starting to piece together the implications here after his talk with his crewmate. Then afterwards, he tries to delude himself before Maxie gave him the cold hard facts.
>>59226818>>592268261. At that point, it's not a warning.2. You just confirmed that Kyogre was not doing what Archie wanted./argument
>>59226805>I'm just saying that in my opinion the emotional weight of the story holds up anyway,What emotional weight? The jangling keys of the N's castle scene and the opening where you see N being crowned? >with a plausible planHow is it plausible? They couldn't even come up with a half decent pretense for him being a cackling shit eater."if N becomes champion, he can convince people to give up their pokemon and be the only one with any"UUhhhh.... why the fuck would anyone do that just because N is Champion and has Reshiram/Zekrom? This is never explained nor do we have any real reason to think it would happen.N is so overrated imo. I don't know why people like him so much.BW is a prime example of wearing the veneer of being deeper than its predecessors and that being enough for kids at the time because they were to young to know better, which let them go all "I'm 9 and this is deep, even though it isn't".
>>59226830>2. You just confirmed that Kyogre was not doing what Archie wanted.Yes, because he didn't think it would kill all of the pokemon as well. That's all he cared about. He didn't care about what happened to humanity. He wanted to flood human civilization, hence the great deluge.
>>59226805Also>plausibleNo. Ghetsis has plot armor stronger than Batman's.>an anti-hero you feel genuine empathy forN is nothing but an annoying idiot.
>>59226840You are grasping at straws.
>>59226840>because he didn't think it would kill all of the pokemon as well. That's all he cared about. He didn't care about what happened to humanityYou made all of this up.
>>59226848>>59226846You didn't play the game.
>>59226838>UUhhhh.... why the fuck would anyone do that just because N is Champion and has Reshiram/Zekrom? This is never explained nor do we have any real reason to think it would happen.since Reshiram/Zekrom are the legendaries of the region the equivalent of God the inhabitants of unova know the legend of the dragon that awakens for those who want to follow pure ideals/truths if they follow N it means his ideals/truths are pure therefore Team Plasma equals Pure if God showed himself to your eyes and showed unequivocally that he is God not an impostor and told you something apparently bizarre would you remain skeptical or in the end would you trust him even without fully understanding because you think God has a bigger plan that you do not understand
>>59226712That’s completely unrelated to the fact that Maxie is an absolute retard. Unironically though I’d argue Archie is actually not that bad, there’s literally nothing wrong with what he was doing on the volcano.
Don't forget that Maxie and Archie are even dumber in the original RSE version because they didn't know which orb helps them control their respective legendary(they're the same color) and proceeded to take the opposite colored orb that makes them go on a rampage.
>>59226868>implying *anyone* thought Reshiram/Zekrom = ArceusYou have no idea of what you are talking about.
>>59226805There is no emotional weight though. It's all just a stupid evil scheme from a character that doesn't have any personality other than "he's evil and blatantly manupulative".And N isn't an anti-hero at all, he's a victim of Ghetsis' manipulation and believed in a false goal. He was just a puppet who came to realize that he is one.
>>59226913Arceus isn't the only one, there are lesser deities, the point is the same, if a Greek Deity capable of unleashing thunderstorms tells you to follow him, do you think "no I'm not convinced" or "I don't understand but I trust his superior understanding"? there is no answer, but it's plausible to believe it, even if the Pokémon world is a utopia, does it seem strange to you that God goes against the utopia? Maybe, but God is God
>>59226973>And N isn't an anti-hero at all, he's a victim of Ghetsis' manipulation and believed in a false goal. He was just a puppet who came to realize that he is one.honestly his character arc alone where he starts doubting his own ideas until he has a breakdown and demands to fight you is excellent for a Pokémon game for me>There is no emotional weight though. It's all just a stupid evil scheme from a character that doesn't have any personality other than "he's evil and blatantly manupulative"it's cool because he presents himself to the public with a prophetic tone (excluding the laughter), it's his plan that is valid, you manipulate an innocent creature to make it awaken God, this way public opinion is convinced that your association has the consent and approval of God, so he doesn't need to prove that the bond between humans and pokemon is wrong, and he doesn't need to convince those who know it's a lie (like gym leaders), because gym leaders can't do anything against a convinced mass. it's exactly how propaganda works in the real world, in its simplicity it's surprisingly realistic, and for a kids' game I think it's great writing
>>59226838>BW is a prime example of wearing the veneer of being deeper than its predecessors and that being enough for kids at the time because they were to young to know better, which let them go all "I'm 9 and this is deep, even though it isn't".Then why the game has N's room, it's a useless detail if they just wanted to impress, but the game has actual depth
This fucker is only doing this out of spite against gen 5.
>>59226868>the equivalent of GodYou're embellishing shit and making things up. Reshiram and Zekrom were never portrayed as godlike at all. Compare to the weather trio or the creation quartet. They are just powerful dragons that are associated with an ancient hero.>the resthow old r u anon. Be honest.Gen 5 isn't even presented with any religious symbolism unlike gen 4., The game that actually has the Pokemon God in it.
>>59226850Where does in say in that screencap that he wanted any such thing? You're coping.>>59227005>Then why the game has N's room, it's a useless detail if they just wanted to impress, but the game has actual depth??????????
Lysandre was pretty well established as a descendant of royalty. His access to resources and his cult following are explained by his $$$, handed down from AZ. Unlike past villains, he was a celebrity or cultural figure. People like Professor Sycamore didn't suspect him of being crazy until it was almost too late, because he didn't pay attention to the warning signs... Game Freak might have had their fingers on the pulse of something. Maxie is great because Hoenn really is a tiny island region with small towns and you have to travel by swimming for half the game. ORAS makes his whole "land developer" motive more pronounced. Projects like Sea Mauville and New Mauville were cancelled to preserve wildlife, and off screen he probably didn't like that. Lusamine actually follows Lysandre in a way. She's the head of an important company, and no one suspects her of being a problem because Aether Paradise has a good reputation. I just don't know how to feel about the first female Pokemon villain being a crazy single mom. AI Professor is a bit like Lusamine. A negligent parent obsessed with extradimensional Pokemon. They're, not exactly evil, but their dinosaur/robot autism is so strong that it causes the plot to happen. They ignore their son. Paradox Pokemon appear in the modern world. AI machine flips out to preserve them. Scientific fixation gets out of control. But they died to save the lizard, so they were a good person beneath the madness.
>>59226758>Peony: "Whoa! Is that Kyogre? The Pokémon they say created the seas?! If the ocean's the mother of all life...and Kyogre's the mother of the ocean... Should we all be callin' Kyogre our nan?! Listen up, Chief... You better be nice and gentle with that Kyogre!">Battle Revolution also uses a Kyogre suit for the girl and a Groudon suit for the boyPlus, all the other legendary duos are implicitly one gender or the other.>malesLugiaGroudonDialgaZekromYveltalSolgaleoZamazentaKoraidon>femalesHo-OhKyogrePalkiaReshiramXerneasLunalaZacianMiraidonThough I admit there are arguments against this.Ho-Oh is based on a hen that looks like a cock, so Lugia should be something masculine that looks feminine. But it's the opposite instead, being a motherly bird that looks like a dragon - so maybe she is on the same boat as Ho-Oh.Xerneas, despite representing the X chromosome, is a stag. And the one that "gives" in the relationship with Yveltal. In turn, Yveltal can be associated with many feminine concepts despite representing the Y chromosome. So maybe they are the opposite of what you'd expect at first glance... or perhaps they are purposely ambiguous?Similar arguments can be made for many of the others. So maybe the cover legends don't have to be one or the other.
>>59227013>Unovafag victim complexeverytime.
>>59226996>it's cool if I write a fanfic and pretend it's real!Alright buddy.
>>59227023I remembered that in the Japanese version they spoke of deities, but I could be wrong, but the point doesn't change, the focus isn't religion, but rather mass psychology, see the legendary as a test, if it awakens, it means your intentions are pure, therefore the masses conclude that if the leader of Team Plasma has the legendary, then their intentions of liberation are pure>??????????N is 20 years old, and he lives in a child's room and plays with toy trains, why add such a specific detail if an edgy character was enough to attract kids?>inb4 "that's an edgy detail" I can understand if you think that, but I read it as a demonstration that N has the intelligence of an adult but the emotions of a child, because he never grew up from a social point of view, it connects well to Anthea and Concordia's line "there is nothing more beautiful and terrifying than innocence", how far can someone with the purity of a child go if they are convinced they are living through an unpunished wrong?
>>59227034>I just don't know how to feel about the first female Pokemon villain being a crazy single mom.First of all, there isn't anything wrong with that. Second, her husband presumably died rather than her being dumped or something.
>>59227065Why do you think it's a fanfic? Ask a detail and i'll provide the in-game quotes
>>59226996>honestly his character arc alone where he starts doubting his own ideas until he has a breakdown and demands to fight you is excellent for a Pokémon game for meEither your standards are pathetically low or you have severe tunnel vision.>that mental wankery about GhetsisAH HA HA HA HAH I can't take you seriously anymore.
>>59227057>Lugia the boy and Ho-Oh the girl.You lost all credibiolity. Shudo explicitely said Lugia was female coded. Which is why lugia is a mom in the movie.Nothing about Ho-Oh is feminine coded.
>>59227066>I remembered that in the Japanese version they spoke of deities, but I could be wrong, but the point doesn't change, the focus isn't religion, but rather mass psychology, see the legendary as a test, if it awakens, it means your intentions are pure, therefore the masses conclude that if the leader of Team Plasma has the legendary, then their intentions of liberation are pureEven if I were to turn my brain off and give you all of this, that doesn't lead to "everyone would actually do it". it's a massive leap in logic. Your intentions can be pure and i can still disagree with em or just think its dumb because i don't want to.>N is 20 years old, and he lives in a child's room and plays with toy trains, why add such a specific detail if an edgy character was enough to attract kids?What does any of this have to do with anything i said.
>>59226642It's a good thing if you like water pokemon
>>59223778Ghetsis > Giovanni > Lusamine > Guzma > Lysandre > Archie > Cyrus > Maxie > Penny
>>59225659>"no one says that">says it
>>59227072>Lugia was female codedI mentioned that myself.>Nothing about Ho-Oh is feminine codedShe is a fenghuang, an oriental "phoenix" that is used as the feminine counterpart to dragons. The japanese word for fenghuang is literally just ho-oh.
>>59227096>stuff i made upnobody cares
>>59223784This is the art I like to close out games with
>>59227072>lugia is a mom in the movieNo- that happened in the main series, not in the movie. It was done by anime team to cheer up Shudo, who was depressed about the voice thing and had left the show.
>>59227101Don't be a sore loser. It's not my fault you jumped the gun.
>>59227077The point isn't how it looks from our perspective, but whether it holds up within the internal logic of the worldbuilding. These dragons aren't just pets, they are the founding fathers of the region. If they choose to follow Team Plasma, the average citizen is going to assume there's a higher purpose at play that they simply can't grasp. It's easy to call it "dumb" from the outside, but it's much harder to express dissent when you're standing in front of the literal manifest gods of your world.I’m not denying the shitty "Plasbad" moments or the Munna scene, but I believe the game has a core of sincerity and ambition that is worth saving despite its flaws
>>59227080>is the lamest and most forgettable core series main villain in your path
>>59227110>winning on the internet.How old are you? You made stuff up and I ignored it.Shudo said Lugia is feminine coded. The end.
>>59227172Which I didn't contradict and even mentioned myself, idiot.
>>59227172Forgot to mention...>winning on the internetYou're a hypocrite. You're clearly trying to win an argument here even though I don't disagree with you.
>>59227195It's not about "winning". That's childish and juvenile. Like the person I'm talking to.I am having a conversation on a discussion board, idiot.If i see something I think is wrong Im gonna call it out.
>>59227210You are clearly the one who is wrong here and you are throwing a tantrum over it.
Next you'll say "I was just trolling", to keep pretending you are being dumb on purpose and not just doing damage control.
>>59223778I love how he planned around N potentially betraying him later on. His Hydreigon has moves against N's entire team. Cofagrigus to shut down the Legendary Dragon's ability (plus Illusion from Zoroark I guess) and to Toxic stall. Bouffalant is just kinda strong but I believe it has Head Smash to counter Archeops and Vanilluxe, plus Reshiram in White version. Bisharp, Eelektross and Seismitoad all counter at least one team member too.Plus his team does well against most other trainers in Unova, in case anyone else tries to stop him.
>>59227259>I love how he [fanfic]I know this gets thrown around a lot but it's literally the case here.
>>59227273It's like the Ditto and Mew theory, who cares if it was intentional or not, it works damn well.
>>59227322That one has a solid foundation. Your theory about Ghetsis is just wishful thinking.
>>59227013True. Unova derangement syndrome at it's finest.
BW's story vs the idea of it its fans made up inside their heads.
>>59227152I'll take him over crippled Ghetsis.
>>59227118>The point isn't how it looks from our perspective, but whether it holds up within the internal logic of the worldbuildingIt doesn't because the people of the region are part of the world building and we ar egiven no reason to believe any of this stuff would make anyone actually do it. The game just says this is Ghetsis' plan and we are expected to just go along with it.>ambitionIt's not ambition. This word gets tossed around way too liberally these days.Gen 7 has an actually ambitious story, world and characters by comparison. It actually realizes the world building of its region and its concept is incredibly inspired.
>>59227118>These dragons aren't just pets, they are the founding fathers of the region.No, they were the pets of the founding fathers.And you misunderstand the ancient Japanese and ancient Greek concept of gods: they were not just weaker versions of the Muslim/Christian/Jewish/Samaritan God that were equally omniscient/omnipresent, they were just particularly powerful spirits who could be just as clueless and vulnerable as humans. They were closer to the European concept of faires.
>>59227273How so?
>>59227331The Ditto theory was brought up and explicitly deconfirmed. The Ghetsis theory was but had no response
>>59227382And the ideas fans make up are always based on the actual story. No adding in stuff or taking stuff out
>>59227441It's like saying Cyrus had a Weavile to deal wiith Cynthia's Garchomp. It's just asinine. You're trying to give everything a deeper meaning.
>>59227472Nta but why is that a problem? As >>59227444 said Masuda deconfirmed that theory, i mean, probably he was lying, but regardless, if it works whats the problem? It's not that GF is some incredible studio, so if fans fix their stories or add more depth into them, at end of the day it's just fans making stuff for other fans and for themselves
>>59227484There is a difference between finding a deeper meaning and forcing it.>You're trying to give everything a deeper meaning.Emphasis on *everything*. As the saying goes: "sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar".
>>59227382>every other pokemon story has some flaws This is completely fine. Makes sense. >bw story has some flawsTHIS IS THE WORST THING TO EVER EXIST BECAUSE IT JUST IS, OKAY! I MUST NITPICK EVERY SINGLE DETAIL, ASK OBVIOUS QUESTIONS AND THROW IN A TON OF HYPOTHETICALS TO DEBUNK IT!
>>59227539More like>Criticize other gens storysYeah man they were dumb>criticize gen 5s storyREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE NO STOP YOURE HURTING MY BABY!!!!!!!!!!
>>59227561>>Criticize other gens storysThat's not this thread started. Try again.
>>59223804Lysandre, Rose, Maxie and Archie are all tied for worst villainsGiovanni and Lusamine (both versions) are tied for bestGhetsis is alright but he is too obviously evil to work as intended. Cyrus is forgettable but does his job as a bad guy.>>59224039those don't count, they're following an entirely different formula
>>59227393>Gen 7 has an actually ambitious story, world and charactersand it's a painful slog because it constantly gets in the way of the gameplay
>>59227582Maxie and Archie are definitely better than Rose. Come one now.
>>59227591As if Gen 5s doesn't. At least in gen 7, its actually relevant stuff as opposed to pointless C-Gear conversations.
ghetsis>cyrus>pecharunt>gen 1 giovanni>SM lusamine>maxie>archie>necrozma>lysandre>archer>rose
>>59227596you're stupid if you think gens 5 and 7 are comparable
>>59227607Chargestone cave has NPCS interrupting you ever 5 seconds.
>>59227657SM has that for the entire game
>>59227689So did BW.
>>59227080Penny is not the villain.
For me, it's Maxie wanting to make a volcano explode by throwing rocket fuel in it in Emerald.
>>59227472Yeah that's one Pokémon against one Pokémon. Ghetsis' Hydreigon hard counters N's entire team and the rest of his team counters at least one mon. This one feels intentional rather than just 'generic bad guy Pokémon that happens to have an advantage against the Champion's ace'Also it was confirmed in an interview that I'm currently looking for.
>>59227514Not everything needs to have meaning. But in the case of Ghetsis' team being designed to counter N's, it makes perfect sense that Ghetsis would have a backup plan in case N betrayed him or something.
>>59227561>Yeah man they were dumbAnd usually with tons of reasons why>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE NO STOP YOURE HURTING MY BABY!!!!!!!!!!I've never had this experience except in situations like this. Usually if someone points out a flaw in Unova, the Unova fans accept it.
>>59227592Rose wasn't even a villain. More of a businessman with some mental disorder
>>59227657Not nearly as frequently or as long as the average segment in Alola.
>>59227711no it didn't
