>>59236381
>You don't understand, Falkner NEEDS a Hoothoot. What do you mean there's a boss 5 minutes before him that uses Hoothoot as an ace? I don't actually play the game so I wouldn't know or I just do a glorified boss rush with infinite rare candies

>>59236381
The wait for WiWa has /vp/ desperate for stuff to talk about

Meme issue. Falkner is more challenging than Brock too.

>>59236381
I'd have been fine just with Morty having a Misdreavus. Chuck didn't really have any options besides Hitmontop (which they gave Bruno) or Heracross (which would probably fit Bugsy more).

>>59236381
Bugsy's problem is that, other than his ace Scyther, his team is worse than the random bug catchers before. Seriously, Metapod and Kakuna for a gym leader? When there were so many other bug options in the early game? Ledyba, Spinirak, Pineco, Paras, Yanma, and Heracross to name a few.

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>>59236381

>>59236698
>only the women and old men use the Johto Pokemon
What did they mean by this?

>>59236684
>Ledyba, Spinarak
Wouldn't have made his team any more difficult and wouldn't have felt as exciting to find those Pokemon yourself.
>Yanma
Not available until after the next gym, would be stupid to reveal it here.
>Pineco and Heracross
They wanted to keep the headbutt Pokemon hidden until after you'd had a chance to try it yourself. Heracross is too strong for this point in the game.
>muh Metapod and Kakuna!!
It's balanced because they can waste your time/poison/slow you even though they're weak, but Scyther is strong for so early in the game and if you let him build up Fury Cutters you'll get swept.

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>>59236684
Fair. Though that’s more because he uses fucking cocoons, something so stupid it’s considered a jokes. The mons you suggested would have been better. Heck, a Shuckle with wrap is accomplish far more than either of the cocoons combined and serving basically the same purpose as a wall for his scyther to hide behind

>>59236712
>Not available until after the next gym, would be stupid to reveal it here.
But Scyther is fine? Also, you didn't mention Paras, the bug type found in the forest right next to Bugsy's gym.

>>59236684
The cocoons are stronger than Ledian (not a point in favor of the cocoons, mind you).

>>59236712
>Yanma
>Not available until after the next gym, would be stupid to reveal it here.
Yanma being as rare as it was is even stupider. That thing should have been before the first for how weak it is.

>>59236422
Nothing wrong with that. Alternatively they could give him Natu or Murkrow

>>59236666
I don't see any problem with Gym Leaders and E4 having some repeatsed mons.

>>59236684
Maybe Paras and Yanma

>>59236698
4x4

Please remove Blaine. Slugma line is a Kanto pokemon.

>>59236712
I see no problem with revealing a Pokémon before you can catch it, especially if it's strong.

It gives the player an impression 'I wanna use that' then as soon as they find one later on, they catch it.

>>59236745
this, teasing a mon is an incentive to go looking for it and discover even more while searching
BW did the opposite by flopping a monkey on you before you even get to fight one and they became some of the most reviled designs ever instead of cool boss encounters that counter your starter and make you go "woah I want that"

>>59236733
Maybe, but Natu is too linked to the ruins Ana Murkrow hits as hard as Pidgeot. Also both females are used by the Elite 4.
I thinking Skarmory fits his vibe the best, but that would be insane for the first gym. If Skarmory had a baby it would have been perfect for Falkner, but game freak decides Jigglypuff and Clefairy needs prevos more some some reason.

You all forget that pretty much half of the "Jotho" Pokemon are actually from Kanto.

Also, they're all "new" so it makes sense that they're rarer than the old well knew ones. This concept of must use new one is flawed.

I don't think it would make sense if Falker used Murkrow or Skarmory, since they're mainly Dark/Metal. Also I don't think it would make difference if he used Hoot Hoot instead of Pidgey, but he is the Falkern, not Owlern.

>>59236381
>How is that bad?
Because bosses of the new gen should show off the new pokemon.
Just because you don’t agree with that argument doesn’t mean you should pretend it doesn’t exist.

>>59236712
Every Johto pokemon a gym leader uses isn’t available until after their gym. Except maybe Kingdra? I forget.

>>59236764
Fucking Geodude hits about as hard and Cranidos 50% harder. Is it really that much of a showstopper

>>59236775
>Because bosses of the new gen should show off the new pokemon.
Why?

>>59236712
How is encountering an all-new Pokemon you've never seen before and have to adapt to during an important boss battle not exciting? Why do random trainers have new Pokemon if you're meant to discover them yourself? Why would a few Pokemon out an entirely new region being showcased by the game front and centre take away from the Pokemon that are hidden away for the player to find themselves?

>>59236783
Is it that hard to understand that gym leader teams should represent the region their from?
>>59236770
That's like saying he shouldn't use Pidgey/Pidgeotto because their normal. Their all birds.

>>59236764
>Natu is too linked to the ruins
You mean the ruins that are RIGHT NEXT TO FALKNER'S GYM?

>>59236783
It’s more exciting, difficult, and fun that way.

>>59236770
>Also, they're all "new" so it makes sense that they're rarer than the old well knew ones
Then wouldn't it make more fucking sense to have the best trainers in the region to be the ones that own them instead of random nobodies standing around routes doing nothing?
Johto defense arguments are always ass backwards

>>59236803
>gym leader teams should represent the region their from?
Why?

>>59236811
>It’s more exciting, difficult, and fun that way.
How?

>>59236783
Because he's too stubbon and/or retarded to accept that precedent wasn't set until after Gen 2.

>>59236819
We were better off for it, which is why they should have done it sooner.

>>59236770
>You all forget that pretty much half of the "Jotho" Pokemon are actually from Kanto.
Because there was no such thing as [region]mon.

>>59236824
It didn't matter.

>>59236666
>Hitmontop (which they gave Bruno)
In gen 1, Brock and Bruno used Onix and Sabrina and Blue used Alakazam.

>>59236815
Kill yourself yawnie

>>59236837
Gen 2 is the only dex that flopped so clearly it did matter

>>59236846
As a kid, it became a running joke with my friends that if we didn't remember a Pokemon, it was probably from gen 2. And we thought Skarmory and Slugma were from gen 3.

>>59236846
How does a dex "flop" lol? Get some fresh air.

>>59236814
>Why Blaine Doesn't use Moltres and Sabrina a Mewtwo?

Because only losers uses the strongest/rarest, true winners use the ones they love.

Give Falkner Natu. Aleph's right next to his gym, it makes sense. Maybe Hoothoot too, just remove it from the monk boss.
Give Bugsy Ledian, maybe Ariados. They're both so bad that this early is their only chance to shine. Flexes gen differences and sells link cables too.
Whitney is fine.
Give Morty Misdreavus, obviously. His ace would still probably be Gengar, though.
Give Chuck...Hitmontop, I guess? Slim pickings here.
Jasmine is fine. Maybe give her a Skarmory, it's late enough for that.
Pryce is fine.
Clair is fine.

I do appreciate that they at least tried to give the gym leaders gen 1 stuff you might not have seen. Scyther, Poliwrath, etc. And in some cases they just don't have much to work with. Morty, Clair, etc. But even considering all that, there's still improvements to be made, and pretty obvious ones too. Falkner is just ridiculous.

>>59236871
Johto Route 36 is the exact location where School Kid Alan gives you a fire stone.

>>59236882
It's funny because RS Hoenn isn't much better
>Roxanne is a Brock retread but replacing Onix with an even bigger shitmon and one you'll NEVER SEE otherwise unless you go out of your way to look for it. There's no reason for her to even be Rock-type other than "Kanto did it" because all 3 starters handle her just fine and you get a Shroomish immediately before her that shits all over her worse than either the Rustboro Fighting-type trade or whatever Kanto gave you
>Brawly only had Makuhita, he was fixed in Emerald with adding the meme Meditite
>Wattson was VERY fixed in Emerald to actually showcase a new mon
>Flannery would be a jobber if it weren't for Torkoal, but she was also fixed in Emerald
>Norman is fine, still a better team in Emerald
>Winona is perfectly fine, might be the best Gym Leader in the region behind Wallace
>Tate and Liza are outright embarrassing. Absolute worst showing of Double Battles outside of Emerald, which HEAVILY fixed them due to giving them non-shitmons as leads
>Wallace was never going to bad a bad team because Hoenn is Water central. Juan surprisingly isn't a downgrade either

Basically, the first half of the game have extremely dogshit teams unless you play Emerald, which knew RS was an absolute shitshow. You're more likely to get stuck on Johto Gym Leaders like Whitney, Morty or Clair due to their teams being incredibly good compared to Kanto or Hoenn Gym Leaders, where the latter only really would stall you on Norman or Wallace if you're not playing Emerald. Meanwhile almost every Sinnoh Gym Leader is practically a wall if you're not ready for them

>>59236803
>Is it that hard to understand that gym leader teams should represent the region their from?
pidgey and pidgeotto are native to johto

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>>59236500
>WiWa

>>59236733
Natu is the overpowered psychic type and Murkrow is a fully evolved pokemon.

>>59236941
I don't think they're comparable. Only Wattson is without any gen 3 pokemon, and as you said Emerald spreads even more around. I'm not considering difficulty.

>>59236871
Houndour and Murkrow ran them out of town.

>>59236620
Lol
Lmao

>>59236871
Only getting one of each evolutionary stone in GS (and near the end of the game, to boot) was such bullshit, especially since there was no item holding in RBY, so it's not like you could trade more over from them after buying them from Celadon. Crystal getting you more through random phone calls was only a marginal improvement.

>>59236620
>>59237384
Both of them suck, but I guess I'd call Falkner harder. None of the starters are good against him, and Geodude and the trade Onyx are at least somewhat countered by mud slap.

>>59236949
..why are you like this? why are you so obsessed with us?

>>59236381
falkner definitely did not say this

>>59236956
Onix is a fully evolved pokemon, what gives?

>>59237414
No it's not.

>>59237401
>us
I thought you were just a cute femboy
What the fuck did she mean by “us”?!

>>59236422
The Sprout Tower elder should use Dunsparce instead of Hoothoot

>>59237414
Murkrow has a higher attack than onix.

>>59237440
I mean, I stare at the image sent, and the dude is just pointing out the concept of "pronouns in bio". if that gets anon's tiddies in a twister, I dread to think of what they actually think of normal people. feels like genuine schizoid behaviour.

>people STILL don't understand why Gen 2 keeps the New Pokemon scarce until after a certain point in the game
There's no getting through to you retards, is there?

>>59236620
Only if you pick lamerita.

>>59236381
So one thing people don't tend to notice about Johto is that it's Gym Leaders are mostly younger and more inexperienced than Kanto's. Johto native Pokemon were only first discovered in the three year narrative gap, Pokemon in general only popped into existence at most a century before RG, and Johto is more of a backwater than Kanto. The game implies that powerful new Pokemon are only obtainable by strong, experienced trainers.
For the Leaders, we see
>Falkner: recently took over Violet Gym from his father
>Bugsy: is clearly the youngest Leader design wise and still dresses like a Bug Catcher
>Whitney: young enough to be a crybaby and not know how to address challengers
>Morty: says he recently awakened to his esper powers and is still judged unworthy of Ho-oh
>Jasmine: her type is all new to her so she isn't used to Steel yet
And even in Kanto there's Janine and Blue who just took over their gyms.
It makes narrative sense that they would have less developed teams, in the case of Bugsy and Falkner, still have teams that their trainer class uses.

>>59237764
So they made the trainers all newbs and the region a backwater shithole to make KANTOOOOO look better AND have an excuse not to show the new Pokémon?

>>59236738
Blaine is kinda homeless rn. Cut him some slack and let him hang out with the Kanto girls.

>>59236712
>Not available until after the next gym, would be stupid to reveal it here.
every kanto gym does this.

>>59237844
Kanto is open world THOUGH

>>59237844
That’s because Kanto wasn’t made to flop

Sex with Falkner

>>59237888
Get off 4chan, Wicke

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>>59237764
There's tons of things in gen 2 that are the way they are in the name of world building followed by player immersion but shitposters and haters will ignore that and say "lol bad design" but if it was done in THEIR favorite gen they'd clap like seals and call it "Kino"

>>59237901
>There's tons of things in gen 2 that are the way they are in the name of world building followed by player immersion
every gen does this.

>>59237901
Exactly, even if Tajiri's Dragon Quest 2/PokeJapan vision didn't happen, the Johto we actually got carries what I imagine is a lot of the same themes.
I was just thinking about how people shit on Johto's "babyish" feel, and we know that the design team chose to simplify things to make merch more possible, but it's interesting that the rest of the game has this same softer, gentler side to it especially compared to Gen 1. Kanto was le spoopy is a meme based on headcanon, but Kanto does have a lot of urban sci-fi stuff happening and it's clear why when you think of the influences. In a way, Gen 2 which was the start of Pokemon's permeation as a franchise, uses a soft, naturalistic angle not only to contrast what came before, but it also reflects real life: Pokemon has gone from being mysterious and with an air of danger, where trainers are all tough guy kids and grown adults, some with Psychic power, to something broadly known and beginning to trickle into everyday life for every person. Smaller kids can train Pokemon, Gym Leaders are getting younger, and Pokemon are more of humanity's partners than before. Which fits perfectly with the broader theme of GSC: growing up and the inevitably of a changing world.

>>59236854
>>59236846
Gen 2 mons were the most exotic and prestigious when I was growing up in Gen 3 since they were scattered around different games in secret areas and stuff, which was the design intention in Gen 2 itself so I guess Gen 3 was very authentic to the design intentions of Gen 2 that way.

>>59236381
>How is that bad?
I don't like it.

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>>59238023
in other words, Gen III treats the West Kanto shitmons with more respect and importance than Gen II does itself

>>59238070
Define shitmon

>>59238070
You only say that because it Gen III isn't Johto, so it cant fail at your NuGen autism.

>>59237986
Damn, Johto really is kino isn't it

>>59237426
It was fully evolved in Gen 1.

>>59236381
>why can't the bird leader have an army of pigeons. it makes sense no?
>because uh ah uagh NOYUCANT

>>59237746
Because it's badly designed?
>oh no people want to use the new pokémon in the new game. how awful of them
>let's lock misdreavus to the very end of the post-game where it will be entirely useless

>>59238230
>uhhhhhhhh IT'S WORLDBUILDING YOU DONT GET IT

good intent does not mean good execution
Johto is a region built on false platitudes that fails to deliver on any of them

>>59237866
>you can technically skip a few gyms if you're too retarded to beat them and have two alternate paths to get to fuchsia
>this means it's open-world

>>59238230
You'd think a bird leader would have more than one bird.
Either that, or stay on brand and have a Pidgeot as well.

If I ever saw this samefag in real life, I'd kick his ass until he died no I don't care that it's a 12 year old transvestite

>>59238099
'mind repeating that, ESL?

>>59238265
the original concept was that he was a rookie gym leader and he got handed his gym and pokemon down from his father. mud slap helped throw off the player with something new, a sand attack like move that lowers accuracy and damages at the same time. the pokemon adventures manga further expands this by giving him pigetetto, noctowl and skarmory, and he later throws boomerangs made of skarmories clear wings with pokeballs attached to them in the three dogs test of various trainers all over to find someone suitable to combat the masked man.

you know who really dropped the ball? the heart gold soul silver remake which didn't even incorporate skarmory into his lineup. fucking hell they put people through the pokemon yellow crap but refuse to take improvements from the manga.

>>59238302
You'd have to go outside first.

>>59238352
>ESL
If you mean "say it in retard", I can try.
Because These mons are in Gen 3, scattered about, they can't do a bad job of being used in gen II...because they aren't being used in Gen II in Gen 3.
It isn't better used because of how they are used. it's better used because they aren't being implemented in the way that doesn't line up with your little pattern.

>>59236712
>Heracross is too strong for this point in the game.
he has a scyther

>>59238506
I wonder what 4x fire weakness is

>>59238514
something that scyther doesn’t have

>>59238514
I wonder what 4x flying weakness is

>>59238527
u r right but the scyther doesn't even have swords dance, it only has fury cutter
>>59238529
is the aerial ace in the room with us right now

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>>59236871
>until postgam-
UH OH ZOOMIES... OUR NARRATIVE.. HAS BEEN SHATTERED...
lmao literally the same fucking route you find them

>>59238766

i just did an entire playthrough of hgss and none of the trainers that give stones gave me a single one. play the fucking games retard

>>59237448
Or even just a Gastly.

>evolving stone evo mons right away when this prevents them from learning moves.

>>59236868
Why would Gym Leaders have Legendary Pokémon?

>>59238766
>>59238772
Yeah, this is a nice idea, but it happens SO rarely and randomly that it's basically not a factor at all. Maybe if there was some way to manipulate it? Battling them or calling them yourself raises relationship points and makes gifts more likely and frequent. And even then it's obscure as fuck.

>>59237448
>>59238782
Would a Weepinbell have been too strong for that point in the game?

>>59236738
the hell?? slugma is a gen 2 mon its national dex number is 218. anon do you even play?

>>59238772
I never got any from them either, had to rely on Big Catching Contest prizes. At least in Crystal you could force calls with the Daylight Savings cheat.

>>59238805
>Weepinbell before the first Gym
Fuck back to your kaizoslop, shitter

>>59238805
>And even then it's obscure as fuck.
The trainers who will give you things tell you they'll call you and offer you things when they ask for your phone number.
Other NPC trainers in the same routes mention how they got something good from other trainers they had swapped numbers with.
Try and actually PLAY the fucking game and not speed through it like a tranny

>>59238788
The point of that is it gives the player a choice to make. Do you evolve them sooner so they get strong, or latter so they get more moves? I think there's even some NPCs who talk about this. But for that to work the player has to actually have early access to the appropriate stone.

>>59238819
Yes, I know, but there's no reason to think it's a fire stone specifically.
Unless he actually does say that? You'll forgive me if I don't remember every NPC.

do a backflip on a random tree in a rainy route on tuesday during the night when it's a full moon for a 1% to get your dick sucked by a new pokemon

>>59238814
I was just asking. But nah, I think it could work for a boss. It's not all that strong.

>>59238837
That's Sinnoh, not Johto.

>>59238891
Nah Sinnoh would be doing a backflip on the tree then waiting 6 hours to check if your backflip got the right Pokemon but instead you get hit in the dick and told to do it another 100 times before you learn it's the wrong tree.

>>59238821
>The point of that is it gives the player a choice to make
Cap. It's a noob trap that screwed players over in gen 1 and they were obviously making stones less instantly available to curtail the issue.

>>59238903
The only Pokemon that was like this was Munchlax, who you can just breed a Snorlax for anyway.

>>59238378
why the fuck would the first gym leader use skarmory

>>59239046
Read enough "fix this x" threads and you'll know the whiners are totally clueless to game design.

Johto's soft worldbuilding is too kino for the zoomer brain to understand

>>59236620
You think Gen 1 fans are the ones bitching about Johto Gym Leaders? I've noticed it's mostly Gen 3 and 5 fans who think every game should just pretend previous games don't exist.

Am I badshit insane or are the Gen 2 gym leaders actually some of the most well characterized of the early generations?

Jasmine alone gets more to do than just about every gym leader in gen 1 and 3.

>>59239926
Norman

>>59239926
Giovanni is more important than any other Gym leader in the series

>>59237401
Kill yourself tranny

>>59236944
Theyre kanto natives
Hoothoot/Noctowl are native to Johto
Chingling is native to Sinnoh, but Chimecho is native to Hoenn, you get me?

>>59240142
why can i find pidgey and pidgeotto in the grass in johto then

They at least seemed to take a few of the criticisms about the new Pokémon into mind when they made Crystal.
>quite a few of them are less rare, but with tradeoff of the morning/day/night system being more important
>can get Phanpy on the bottom half of Route 46
>can get Teddiursa in the Violet City side of Dark Cave
>can get Wobbuffet at the Goldenrod Game Corner
>can get Sneasel in Ice Path
>can get Larvitar at the Celadon Game Corner