Wholeheartedly the so-called "bad" level curve in HGSS is the best one in the entire series, and one of the best things about HGSS.There SHOULD be significant level spikes when shit gets real. Some trainers SHOULD be lower level than others so that they don't feel samey and to show that the world is a hell of a lot more dynamic than just "weak people early strong people late." It makes sense that Team Rocket is underpowered, they're extremely desperate without a leader.The only point where I genuinely think the curve is even remotely a problem is the fights against Jasmine and Pryce, and maybe a few of the trainers in between, which should be higher level. Beyond that point, it's actually quite genius. There was also the Kanto gym leaders in GSC, but HGSS fixed this.
>>59249448The kanto gym leaders were too easy, I destroyed them all. I like the jasmine and pryce kind of fights better
>>59249452Interesting. Care to elaborate?
>>59249448levels are a game abstraction
>>59249448You can beat battles nearly 10 levels under and have an ok time. These games are so easy.
>>59249448If pokemon were in real life you’d be absolutely right, but since it’s a video game you sometimes have to make things less realistic because that makes the game more fun or even less frustrating to play.
>the game being boring dogshit with little sense of progression is good actually
>>59249472>levels having zero meaning as a mechanic is good actually
Dragons are prideful, Clair being "a sore loser" is actually people misunderstanding that she's the best representation of the Dragon type that Pokemon ever had. A 10 year old walks into the gym, happens every day, but this kid has a whole team of city level threats? No, absolutely not, that jerk Lance is trying to put me through another "you're not the chosen one" humiliation ritual and he's using a child to do it. Fuck no. AND THEN GRANDPA ACTUALLY GIVES THAT BRAT THE DRAGON FANG?? I don't care that he did become champion, the league is modernist plastic culture crap anyway...
venn diagram of retards who complain about johto’s level curve and retards who complain about SV’s lack of level scaling
>>59249501I don't like SV but lack of scaling is not the problem.
>>59249472>boring dogshitI don't think we played the same game.>little sense of progressionYeah we definitely didn't play the same game.
>>59249448
>>59249472
>another level curve thread You guys know in other jrpgs bosses are higher meant to be a higher level than the player.
>>59249537>the 8th gym in a 16 gym game matches up to the 4th gym the 8 gym gamesI fail to see the issue.>>59249541Literally the exact opposite of what I said in OP. HGSS actually has a greater sense of progression than any other game in the series, because you outlevel a lot of the regular trainers throughout the game, showing how much you have in fact progressed. Yet, the moment you let your guard down, the boss levels spike, showing you that they're a big deal. It isn't "supposed to be shit" and it isn't, it's fucking awesome.
>>59249557>Yet, the moment you let your guard down, the boss levels spike, showing you that they're a big dealEven then you the player are still at an advantage due to all the things you have access to.
>>59249571Yes. You can pretty easily beat Red with a team of level 50-60 mons, or Lance with a team of level 35-45s. You don't have to grind at any point. At the end of the day the game is still not particularly difficult, but that level disparity tells the player that they are in fact knocking down a trainer stronger than they are. It's extremely satisfying.
yeah man it's really awesome when i ohko a bunch of trainers massively underlevelled then sweep a gym leader/elite 4 with super effective moves and then do a shitty kanto boss rush what a game
>>59249598>anon discovers how every pokemon game ever plays
>>59249598>yeah man it's really awesome when i ohko a bunch of trainers massively underlevelled then sweep a gym leader/elite 4 with super effective movesThis is every pokemon game ever
>>59249610i beat you to it kek
>>59249612Fug
>>59249615it happens
>>59249455Some of the johto gyms were actually challenging. Like Whitney’s miltank or going up against jasmine when you’re underleveled. The Kanto gym leaders were just as easy as regular trainer battles. They didn’t even really seem like bosses. I pretty much just swept with dragon dance ttar
>>59249501>>59249514these
>>59249638Everyone memes on Bugsy but his Scyther will absolutely rape you if you don't have a rock type at the ready and didn't chose Cyndaquil.
>>59249448nah, stopping to grind to have a chance is horse shitthe main problem was it is a small fucking region and not many battles to keep up with said curverematches was the absolute worst done in the history of the franchisenot fucking only was there not enough exp and trainers to go around the kanto part was fucking awful filled with level 5 mons and trainers with level 10 pokemons thats apparently only fucking accessible after beating the elite 4 the first timebut then again bad design =/= curve
>>59249657>stopping to grind to have a chanceYou don't need to.>>59249590Just have a strategy.Even if you're bad at the game, you can spam X items. But even that really isn't necessary at all.
>>59249657>not fucking only was there not enough exp and trainers to go aroundThis is actually not true. You can call trainers for rematches, including gym leaders.
>>59249682The gym leaders is post game thoughbeit
>>59249693Are you implying you felt like you "needed to stop to grind" in Johto? Sad if true
>>59249657>nah, stopping to grind to have a chance is horse shitI’m sorry you’re dogshit at games designed for toddlers anongo post again about how XY is too easy even for pokemon
>>59249701No I’m NTA you were originally replying to. I’m just saying the gym leader rematches are postgame thoughbeit.
>>59249672if you stuck with one or two main mons you are right. but what do you think of the odds of someone running 5 or even 6 team mons>>59249682you would actually be right if the pokenav rematches were not bullshit. once a day, a chance to happen?ughwell, then again they probably changed it in hgss and most of my memory is remembering crystal>>59249709i dont play pokemon for the challenge. i really donti play for thinking using a certain team for the main story would be fun or even kinda interesting. nuzlockes? meh. monotype? sure. replaying a team from childhood? fuck yeah. replaying and using mons you would not normally use before and/or dropping starter? fuck yeah.
>>59249657The pre elite four grind was brutal
>>59249448I remember Sabrina wiping my whole party effortlessly because her Espeon is fast and Psychic hits like a truck.The only way I could beat her was spamming X Sp. Def and hoping for the best because none of my pokemon were Dark type.Man that was tough.
>>59249452>>59249464See >>59249764You're all talking out of your ass and are impressing no one. Sabrina is a genuine challenge.
>>59249748>f you stuck with one or two main mons you are right. but what do you think of the odds of someone running 5 or even 6 team monsIn which case you still don't need to grind.Once again, see >>59249590
>>59249672NTA but in my experience I did and I was STILL underleveled by the E4 despite fighting everything.For Claire I had an Octillery and Nidoking both with Ice Beam and her pokemon still tanked them like a fortress and hit like a truck.And despite having this strategy against Lance, strategy means next to nothing when he outlevels you and wins by sheer damage numbers.
>>59249590Show me your playthrough with a full team of six then to prove your point.
>>59249765>>59249764No cap, how tho? I’m not tryna flex I thought some of the johto gyms and lance were hard but I ohko all of sabrinas pokemon with gengar and I follow level caps
>>59249778I've been in post-postgame for years at this point. I'm doing the Battle Frontier right now
>>59249782See I ALSO had a Gengar with Shadow Ball and her Espeon was just faster and stronger. My Gengar was on its... 42-44 I think?Sabrina raped my ass, I had to come back with a lot of levels and X SpDef.I don't think Natures played THAT BIG of a role in all that.
>>59249786Huh interesting. Well I don’t remember what level my team was then because I played it a while ago I just remembered Kanto feeling easy compared to johto. Claire was also tuff for me.
>>59249765>reaching Sabrina is a genuine challengeFtfy, and gary too.
>>59249775You're just dogshit at Pokemon games. I'm sorry anon.
>>59249448the only time the level curve is an issue for me is when i'm using evo stone pokemon. when you get to the elite 4 they still haven't learnt their best moves yet so i can't evolve them and they're just dead weight in the e4 matches.
>>59249751>>59249657>>59249775you can beat the e4 easily without grinding. i've played the johto games 10+ times and never had to grind, always beat them with a team of level 30somethings. people fear being underlevelled too much, that's part of the challenge and fun of the game.
>>59251307The idea of "level caps" has honestly ruined people's perception of level curve expectations. Pokemon is not a game that is meant to be "balanced" at level parity. Its an RPG, not a fighting game.
I still don't know if the level curve issue is that things are too high or too low. Anyone complaining about the difficulty in a pokemon game is a faggot anyways.
>>59251752Strictly speaking it's both since sizable chunks of the game have the NPCs stop progressing in levels but then randomly blow up and what people choose to focus on is usually reflective of how they play the games.For example a person who stops to fight every trainer or knocks out a few wild mons here and there is most likely experiencing the extreme burnout of fighting 100 trainers in a row that are ridiculously easy because they're still carrying mons with levels equivalent to the 4th gym or so (which is even lower than the average for other regions). But somebody who only doing what they have to in order to avoid "grinding" is most likely still playing the game casually (aka just picking the mons they like while putting on whatever the strongest moves they learn BP wise is) and as a result is gonna run head first into the random level spikes and get thrown off because the game hasn't really prepped them for it, plus the smaller overall level scaling of Johto can leave their mons feeling far more limited than usual because you're not getting the later level up moves and we're all aware of how questionable the learnsets for Gen 1/2 mons can be.That's not to say playing either way is inherently wrong or people are stupid for having one opinion over the other or whatever, but rather that Pokemon rides a very delicate balance due to how linear the gameplay system with the 1v1 format and any two people can have wildly different experiences as a result of it - just look at the autistic starterwars people have over the "easy/hard mode" starters. Johto's approach to region design throws a very heavy wrench onto that balance by the decision to have levels stagnate so that players can go in any direction after Ecutreak, and that's naturally gonna result in throwing some people off. "Tight level/balance design" is a pretty impossible task to achieve in a series with as many variables as Pokemon, so an experimental risk like that is always gonna be pretty volatile.
>>59251752They’re dogshit at Pokemon games so they’re bitching about the levels too high.No one ever says “XY has a bad level curve”
>>59251841That's because when most people say level curve in regards to Pokemon they're talking about the literal level mechanic, not the difficulty curve. XY technically progresses at a good steady pace from both the enemy and player perspective, it just does a terrible job of matching those paces due to the incredibly bloated exp. mechanics. It's another case of Pokemon being such a disonnected series from other games that Pokemon fan jargon is completely different from the rest of the gaming world and probably contributes to a lot of miscommunication between people who are both assuming different things.
>>59251872>XY has a good level curve it’s just that it has a bad level curveThanks for proving my point.
I remember this game having some of the hardest gym leaders in the series. Whitney, Morty, Chuck, Jasmine, and Clair all gave me trouble as a kid
>>59252078
change your filenames up retardo
>>59252189>the endgame in platinum has higher levels than the midgame in hgssno way
>>59252364>the midgame in hgssBlud didn’t play the game
>>59252375I did. It was the first Pokemon game I ever beat to disappoint me.
>>59252375Literally everyone knows Lance is the halfway point dude.
>>59252383He’s not. What comes after him is the postgame. It’s not part of “the game” it’s extra content after the game.
>>59252397If you didn't beat Red you didn't beat the game.
>>59252402I got bored and dropped it before the 6th gym leader in the Kanto boss rush
>>59252414>outright admitting he didn't beat the gameKEEEEK
>>59252189Literally every mainline game in the series is easy regardless. Platinum having better move sets and teams compared to Diamond and Pearl was nice attention to detail but nobody is losing to anyone in that pic regardless unless they place handicaps on themselves.
