Are there really people who think using save states isn't cheating?
I know it's cheating, but I still do it.
Don't care, enjoy spending 50 tries trying to beat that part or that boss meanwhile I'll just reload and still beat the game 90% quicker than you. I still beat the game despite a minor technicality.
>>12002268I mean ultimately people can do whatever they want in singleplayer games, I was just shocked to learn the "1cc" crowd sees no problem in using save states to practice difficult segments. Like it's a bit of a contradiction isn't it? They're chasing an arcade achievement but they're doing it by throwing the arcade machine out the window.
>>12002265It is cheating, if it wasnt devs would have enabled it.Games like doom where you can save anytime aren't cheating because devs designed it with it in mindSimple as.
this is 4chan, there's no people here
>>12002280My favorite thing to say to these types is how they should enjoy replaying a game if they chose to play it in the first place.
>>12002278you didn't beat the game and you know it, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself and others of it.
>>12002265Is it intended in PC games with quicksave/quickloadtomb raider has that on PC and save crystal points on PSX, which is intended?
>>12002280Would you also be shocked to learn that basketball players repeatedly practice free throws and 3 point shots outside of a full game? Who cares if they're just practicing? As long as they're not savestating during their actual 1CC run there's no issue.
>>12002280How is practicing difficult segments cheating, if your don't use states in your actual run??? If you' d pay a guy, to play an arcade game up to a certain section, so you could play it, and then he'd intentionally die to do it all over again, and you used that practiced skill in your 1cc, would you consider this cheating too?
Cheaters trying to set up a smoke screen.
>>12002362you just play it all over again, like the devs intended arcade games to be played.if there is no practice mode, too bad.
>>12002317Who cares?
I'd like to call Senator Dave State to the stand.
>>12002265gay bait thread
>>12002278What's a major technicality to you?
>>12002389you say that like being gay is bad
>>12002402gay is intrinsically boring.
>>12002382I regret to inform you, Senator Dave State has passed away from unknown complications. Him and six of his cabinet have been pronounced dead from unknown causes. We have two representatives who managed to escape. Mayor soonded and Treasury of state gonnabightet. Their message is simple you didn't beat the game
>>12002412that doesn't mean bad
>>12002402it is, freak, your degeneracy will never be normalized despite globohomo trying really hard to.
>>12002265It isn't when you use it in games that have no save system and you don't savescum.
>>12002473i'm a freak? because i don't hate a bunch of people for no reason???>globohomowho?
>i use save statesdon't care>here's my opinion of the gameYou didn't really play it so shut the fuck up
>>12002280Based. 1CCfags are some of the most thin-skinned faggots on this board. There's one in particular who has a literal meltdown whenever you dare question his playstyle. He will take the bait 100% of the time, without fail.
>>12002371the devs intended for you to quarter feed, because that makes them the most money.
>>12002562The developers don't see any money from a cabinet once they sell it unless they operate an arcade and people go to that arcade to play their cabinets.
>>12002565The developers won't sell many games to arcades if they gain a reputation for making easy games that don't earn the arcades as much money.
>>12002265Lol but it is my game and I can play it any way I want to, that's not mental gymnastics, that's just a fact. Save states are obviously not the dev's original intent and it is cheating but I'll do it if I want to because I can. Who cares?
>>12002338The consequences of death were a deliberate choice on the part of the developer, the skills you gain by bypassing those consequences are skills you would never be able to gain on a real machine, ergo your 1cc would not be possible without cheating and is invalid.
>>12002579You can cheat it you want but let's call it what it is.
>>12002636>but let's call it what it is...save states?
>>12002641see>>12002268
>>12002628>>12002371You realize you can just throw another coin in a real machine right. You only restart a run if you are trying to 1cc right there, not when you are still trying to learn the game
>>12002628>would never be able to gain on a real machineReal hardware can be modified and hacked for practice just like its emulated variant.
>>12002764>modified and hackedSo cheating.
>>12002764You don't even need that because original hardware typically has a dip switch to enable things like free play, more lives/other resources per credit etc. etc.
>>12002770I don't think anyone who wants a legitimate run would consider free play, i bet the more ostentatious tyoes would want the dips at the most challenging settings
>>12002774We are talking about practicing. If you are allowed to, of course you just enable free play instead of paying every time you want to play again.
>>12002780I can accept that. So long as players are not reloading ram states and playing the game as it was intended, I agree that practicing on free play mode is not objectionable.
>>12002782So long as players are not reloading ram states and instead playing the game as it was intendedfixd
>>12002540nta but as a gay man, i totally understand where they're coming from. anal sex is degenerate as fuck and i hate that it's considered the default gay sex act
>>12002782If they aren't using them in the real run, nobody cares. All they are doing is jumping straight into what they want to practice instead of wasting 10 minutes replaying early stages.
>>12002780> If you are allowed to, of course you just enable free play Thats cheating, an official one to get money from those who can't play game, but still allow them to cheat thru by overspending money. See, it's a feature for NOT playing game, i.e. cheating isn't playing, more like paid youtube walkthrough.
>>12002838You are *playing* it though, you just can't claim to have done 1cc until you beat every stage in the same run and without continuing. And to do the latter you need to play a lot, aiming at figuring out how to reduce mistakes in every section.Anon can't understand this because he can't think outside of the console consumption mindset, where you play each level only once and completing it equals to beating it definitely.
>>12002750yes, most games let you continue that way and with more or less resources than you would have if you wouldn't have died (extra weapons, power ups, or no powerups at all) which ruins the practice.
i play games exclusively to cheat at themwould rent games because it had codes in those magazines
>>12002265Based. I remember beating my first shmup and I didn't use save states or any of that bullshit. Only to practice difficult stretches and very little. Was a good time.
>>12002927>Only to practice difficult stretches and very little.That's what the faggot OP is still buttblasted about.
OP has convinced me to use save states, I want to be the jetpack guy not a little girl
>>12002795>all they're doing is wasting their time playing a game they chose to playthat's what you sound like
>>12002950you're projecting your frustration, OP is making fun of sooperplayers that hate playing their game of choice
>>12002969No, he's are crying about this: >>12002280"Superplayers" aren't the ones chasing 1ccs, they usually do more than that like multiloops, score, or additional limitations like no miss.
>>12002265>Are there really people who think using save states isn't cheating?Yes, is cheating, BUT i play videogames for the FUN, and NOT for the challenge.
>>12003002>They aren't doing that, they're doing that and more!yup figures you're a sooperinsecureplayer
>>12003068
>>12003090OP isn't crying about them though. He specifically mentioned the "1cc crowd" and blamed (You) for practicing hard sections with save states. I don't know why you would defend such a clear post unless you are OP yourself or shitposting.
>>12003105I was the first post in this thread, go read it. Save states are for tryhards who aren't enjoying the game they chose to play. Just be honest and say it's cheating.
>>12003116Cool but that's another topic.If you are spamming save states just to get through an old console game then yeah I can agree, but using them as OP mentioned in arcade games as a way to practice has a very different purpose since the whole point is that you keep replaying the same stuff you have "beaten" until you are good enough to do the entire game at once without continues.
>>12002265quick saving is cheatingpcniggers btfo
>>12002294>It is cheating, if it wasnt devs would have enabled it.What about games that don't allow saving because hardware limitations?That extra RAM chip and battery on the cartridge costs money you know.
>>12003131>"beaten"aka not beaten because you got a game over
>>12002863>You are *playing* it thoughNo, not playing as game, but playing as playing youtube video, just forward the video by constantly paying for the next segment.Playing game is fundamentally different thing, it's mastering game mechanics improving your abilities to overcome obstacles (bu your own skills, not money). Paying to fast forward isn't playing at ll, it's just paid cheating. You pay money to see the game content without playing it, the same as watching walkthrough on youtube.
>>12003190Again, you are stuck with the console consumption mindset.If the context is arcade games, then using more credits to get to the end is a fair way to improve assuming you keep replaying and eventually reach a point where you don't need more than 1 credit.
Save states are fine to take a break whenever you want. Just don't use them for casino minigames in JRPGs or something like this.
>>12002265depends how you use them imoIf its genuinely just to skip rewatching slow cutscenes again after dying, skip redoing stuff that requires 0 skill. then its not really a cheat, you are only saving valuable time. I play on real hardware so i cant savestate, but i cant blame someone doing that.
>>12003220now that i think about it, maybe savestates with a cooldown would be a cool compromise? You can savestate and load a state only once every 10 minutes or something?or only 5 times every hour?
>>12003226What is even the point of that
>>12003231to prevent yourself from abusing savestates, while still having the benefits of them. Its just an idea that occured to me, maybe its dumb idk sounded neat in my head
>>12003235I mean, that's already the idea behind checkpoints
>this board is now /v/ but retroGood.
>>12003220>skipping the consequences of death isnt cheating
If you play a game how other say you should rather than how you enjoy it, you are a cuck.
>>12003256True.But on the flip side, would you take seriously an opinion coming from somebody who only watched a playthrough of the game? At best they can comment on the plot or something, but certainly not the gameplay.
>>12003251Maybe people who argue that not wasting your time is cheating, are just old farts who are mad that they had to waste so much of their time before savestates, while newer players can waste less time and play more games.
>>12003261I could take their opinion on the graphics, audio and story seriously. But those aren't why I play games so don't really matter in my specific case.If you enjoy those parts more than the actual gameplay, fair enough. But why then even bother being interested in games and not just stick to movies which tend to do those things better?
>>12003265>while newer players can waste less time and play more games.But what's the point of playing more games to have fun in none of them? Are you trying to fill a checklist?
>>12003273>But why then even bother being interested in games and not just stick to movies which tend to do those things better?Something something about seeing vidya as an interactive experience as opposed to the literal definition of gaming that includes trying to achieve some sort of goal within a given set of rules and clear win/lose states. And that's the best case scenario anyway, since in reality the majority either sticks to vidya because they don't know anything better or do it purely for social reasons.Unfortunately the industry embraced that since it's more appealing to the casual normie masses compared to high difficulty and depth, which calls for dedicated players who like to get better at things. Retro games weren't spared either since they get modern ports with rewind and save states. Not that they were always particularly difficult let alone feature complex systems, but inherently the design elements make it about the challenge and mastery with things like limited lives, scoring, carefully arranged obstacles/enemies with set behaviors and so on.
>>12003265What you describe as "wasting your time" is actually "playing the game", and when I play a game with a steep death penalty that I don't want to grind I accept the fact that maybe that game isn't for me and move on. What I don't do is turn on the cheats to bypass the consequences of dying and then delude myself that I've beaten the game.
>>12002396Enabling invincibility cheats or stage skipping through code input.
>>12002628>The consequences of missing a free throw were a deliberate choice on the part of the NBA, the skills you gain by bypassing those consequences are skills you would never be able to gain during a real game, ergo your game-winning throw would not be possible without cheating and is invalid. This is literally how you sound. You need to learn to separate the concept of practice from that of attempting a run.
>>12003489Using a third party program to make the game easier for yourself by bypassing the consequences of death is called cheating.
the problem with "the way the game was designed to be played" is that the devs were retarded and made some stupid design choices. if I choose to bypass some part of a game then it was the developer's fault for making it shit.
>>12003576Play a different game
>>12003564>Using a home basketball hoop to make freethrows easier for yourself by bypassing the consequences of losing is called cheating. I guess no one should ever practice anything because it's cheating.
>>12002265The REAL normal people mental gymnastics: Games are toys and I'll play with them however I please.
>>12003596Your "practice" is only possible by cheating, at the end of the day you wouldn't have been able to get that 1cc without cheating.
>>12002265don't give a shit, going to continue to use them. i have other hobbies than playing games in addition to other responsibilities so i don't have all the time in the world to autistically grind something like i'm still 10. i don't want to have to repeatedly endure the parts of the game i already beat just to get to the parts that i'm still progressing on. another stupid sentiment i see here often in this discussion>DeVs MeAnT fOr iT nOt To HaVe SaVeS!oh really? if that were true, why did so many devs leverage memory cards and save progression in the 5th generation when it finally became feasible to do so? 4th gen and before devs were limited by the technology. as a way to pad out the game length, they made games difficult. it's no coincidence that they started shifting away from that paradigm as the technology allowed them to. they were now able to build games with more content instead of simply cranking up difficulty.>>12003274>hurrr durrrr ur not havin fun>hurrr durrrr checklist!lmao @ still thinking this strawman is a legitimate argument. yes, i do want to play as many games as i can. time is fucking precious. i'm not like (You) that still autistically grinds the same 8 games from his childhood and goes "durrrr y duz every1 think dees games r hard? i've got 10,000 hours in them they easy!"i WILL use save statesi WILL beat the game faster than youi WILL get the retrocheevoyou WILL piss and poop your pants over it
>>12003618Cool story bro, you still didn't beat the game though.
>>12003617No matter how you kick and scream, Anon still beat your ass at basketball. And one is going to DQ him because he practiced with a hoop at his home.
>>12003617If that's cheating, then everyone who practices anything is a cheater. All practice always happens in a controlled environment devoid of stakes, that's why it's called practice.
>>12003664I was about to say that. OP seems to be at odds with the very idea of practice.No matter which activity you get into, there are always ways to practice outside of a real match/performance, and these ways involve trying stuff without opponents, splitting a more complex task in smaller bits, focusing on repeating one thing until you keep getting it right consistently etc.
>>12002265My reason for using save states is that I want to use them. What's your reason for being a faggot OP?
>>12002793>Anal sex is so degenerate!!>Sucks cock like a faggot'Anon..
>>12003664Nah if you rehearsed the basketball game move for move that you later played live I'd say you cheated there to too. Singleplayer video games aren't sports matches.
>>12003148Are you retarded? Then it's designed without saving retard, so yes. Cheating. Absolute nonce.
>>12003734Today on /vr/ we find out that musicians and various performers are all dirty cheaters since they literally rehearsed their "game" move for move.
>>12003618>i WILL beat the game faster than youHow? You can't even beat the game once, so how are you going to do it faster than me?-t. resets Ninja Gaiden if I die even once.used to be able to do the whole game without damage using no tools (unlike the current youtube "champion" of it), but it requires going through the game twice in a row. Not easy, but it's doable.If you use save states, you cheated.
Also there's no "if" about, when you use a third party program to make a game easier that's called cheating!
>>12003748>stands next to a tree>then pressed down 58 times+mash item buttons>WOW I BEAT THE GAME>SEE THE CREDITS ARE ROLLING!>I AM THE MASTER OF THE GAME :^)I hate that.
>>12003743Today on /vr/ you will fail to learn that a game is a game and not a sport or a piece of music.
>>12003779Ever heard of the term "analogy"?
>>12003780"It's fine to cheat in video games because musicians are allowed to rehearse their pieces!" isn't an analogy it's a retarded non-argument.
>>12003779>sports are not gamesAutistic shitposters will say literally anything to deny reality.>>12003796You failed to prove it's cheating though.
>>12003798I don't need to "prove" that using a third party program to make the game easier is cheating, that is obvious to anyone with a IQ above room temp.
>>12003810If you didn't need to, this thread wouldn't exist.You surely wouldn't make a thread only to say "Are there really people who think using gameshark isn't cheating?"
>>12003817That doesn't follow from what I said at all, it's just another non-argument. I can only assume you'll do this all day so I'll accept your implied concession right now. Please continue pumping out the (You)s though.
Using save states and thinking you beat the game is like falling in love with the massage therapist.>she's touching me!>that means she's my girlfriendNope. You didn't achieve anything.
>>12003848>jewish tacticsYou are the one who think it's enough to simply state your case as a fact, without giving any argument.>it's cheating>why?>because you use a third party tool>what's wrong with it, especially in a practice run?>it's cheatingAnd so on.
ITT: an anon who never beat his games and is highly defensive about it.
>>12003623like i said: you WILL piss and poop your pants
>>12003880Nta, but do you ever feel hollow or otherwise empty and unfulfilled because you cheated? I can see how it would feel temporarily exhilarating to skip to the ending, but do you ever notice that your journey was cut short and you had no fun except for that cheap dopamine hit of skipping to the ending?For me, I've never felt good about skipping to an ending that I didn't earn.
>>12002265>uses save states>doesn't care to save the absolute state of modern life
>>12003198Arcade is business, not games. The context of arcade - to squeeze money with whatever means possible, 'fuck games get money', this is arcade motto. Credit feeding is exactly that, squeezing money even from those who can't, don't want to play. The usual cancer business practices, just as parasiting on unwilling to play mob on youtube by publishing long plays so mob can just kick back without playing and pretend they now know games.
>>12003198No one respects credit-feeders. If you can't 1CC that's ok. Adding credits can be fun with a certain mindset, but it's not "beating the game" by any measure.
>>12003163I think you got a brain fart.
>>12003920This is also a valid argument, but you still didn't beat the games.
>>12003743>Today on /vr/ we find out that musicians and various performers are all dirty cheaters since they literally rehearsed their "game" move for move.Just wait until he discovers chess players do the same and learn tactics made by other players from books and recorded matches.Thanks for the comedy OP.
>>12003942Lol. In one of my favorite PvP games, people practice with a hacked ROM that unlocks the debug menu and lets you create custom formations to do chains.
>>12003942i know i shouldnt even acknowledge it but what does the furry porn have to do with any of thisi'm not even judging i'm just baffled are you advertising your game or something
>>12004153I like furry girls with big tits.
>>12004160well shit anonjannies abandoned this board anywaylet's go all out
all i do is autistically replay the same games ive been playing for decades. half the fun of save states is manipulating rng and sort of reverse engineering how the game was programmed.
clean it up janny
There are plenty of very, very easy games for which the only "challenge" is to complete the game using the arbitrary checkpoints it was designed with. Think of typical Nintendo games like Super Mario 64, The Legend of Zelda, etc. For these games, which already almost entirely lack challenge anyway, the only difficulty there really is just comes from having to go back a few minutes when you die. In these games, yeah, save states aren't legit.In games with serious difficulty, like beat-em-ups and shmups, the routing and execution required is sufficiently precise as to require dozens if not hundreds of repeated play-throughs to get it down pat. In this case, utilizing save states as a tool to learn isn't cheating at all; it's a means to practice no different from a chess player studying optimal lines using an engine. Just like the chess master isn't using the engine in a real tournament match, nor is the shmup player using a save state in a real run. If you think it's cheating to ever have used save states in the past, you are a dumbass.
>>12004187Don't bother, he will make another thread to seethe about arcade players again.
>>12004187>it's not cheating when the game is hard!!The mental gymnastics
the first public release of MAME was february 5th 1997. in order to have performed a legit 1cc on an arcade game, you would have had to have done it before this date. you would have also had to have paid for each attempt. if you were able to practice for free on a machine for whatever reason, your 1cc doesnt count.
>>12003220>"fixing" games with unskippable cutscenes>>12003251>the consequences of death are unskippable cutscenesSounds like nugame garbage from developers who stopped following arcade design principles. Want to stop wasting time, how about not playing bad games that are only "classics" to 5th gen console babies.
>>12004204That isn't what I said, though. There are some games where the challenge is so limited that the only difficulty there is comes from just having to go back a few minutes when you die. The game isn't actually hard. Anyone, even your grandmother, could beat this kind of game by getting to the end using just the tools the game provides. Utilizing save states to get to the end and then suggesting that run utilizing save states was a legitimate game completion is not valid.Other games are so difficult that many people wouldn't be able to complete them without hundreds or even thousands of hours of training. These games require save states for efficient training. Even so, just utilizing save states, getting to the end, and saying you beat that game isn't legitimate either.Save states are a practice tool. They're meant to prepare you for the real deal. If you use them only as a practice tool, there is no cheating. This is even true for those much easier games; I just never hear of people stopping their run of Ocarina of Time, making a save state, practicing a section, wiping their save file, then restarting the game from the beginning to execute without save states except speedrunners, because there is no point to doing that with such an easy game. You'll beat whatever section you're stuck on in half an hour at the worst.
>>12003887cry more
>>12004280(you)[didn't win]
>pokemon fans playing their "favorite games" on 8x speed
>>12002265Why give a shit about save states when the real problem is Rewind? It's almost as if you're trying to hide Rewind and the problems with modernizing old game design.
>12004304(you)[are shitting your pants]
Just don't overdo it and you are fineSave states are a good thing
Save states are a choice you have to reach out and use. Sure it can be abused, but if someone abuses it they know full well that's what they're doing. That's the difference between rewind and other baked in modernization bullshit. I'd be okay with rewind if you had to beat the game to unlock it first. However it's given to you as if it's a feature the very moment you begin playing.
>>12004194If you're using save states you're not an arcade player.
>>12004230>These games require save states for efficient training.Yeah we know cheating gives you an advantage, that's why you're doing it. You want the end result without putting in the full effort so you cheat to get there quicker.
>>12002265I only associate this picture with the "I play as a girl" argument.
>>12002280>I mean ultimately people can do whatever they want in singleplayer gamesExcept for when they don't adhere to your autistic arbitrary ruleset.> I was just shocked to learn the "1cc" crowd sees no problem in using save states to practice difficult segmentsYou clearly have some kind of chip on your shoulder. On one hand you don't care yet on the other hand some kind of rulebook comes out when your worldview on savestates is challenged.> They're chasing an arcade achievement but they're doing it by throwing the arcade machine out the windowYou have the bad kind of autism. The kind that makes you a nitpicking retard.
>>12004620Cheating isn't about how efficient you are, it's about breaking the rules.The "rules" for a 1cc in an arcade game are to finish a run in a single credit, and during this run you generally must play on default settings with only some concessions allowed(i.e. autofire for shmups). Any other run that happened beforehand as "practice" isn't relevant.
>>12002268I use them too. I wouldn't call them cheating though. They're more like EASY MODE to me.I've beaten games before, retro or not without them, when I didn't have to emulate. Nowadays I use save states to save time. Limit the amount of tries it takes to beat some tougher section. Does it take away from the satisfaction of beating the game? Probably. But it also saves the frustration of hitting a wall at a game. And whatever satisfaction is lost can be balanced with beating games faster and having time/energy to beat more games that way.
>>12004697>Cheating isn't about how efficient you are, it's about breaking the rules.The efficiency you describe comes from using a third-party program to break the rules of the game and bypass the intended consequences of death, this is called cheating. Your 1cc which was only possible because you regularly cheated is now fraudulent and worthless.
>>12004710I would like to point you back at the post again.Specifically the part where it says >Any other run that happened beforehand as "practice" isn't relevant.For all you know I could have magically imprinted the necessary skill and knowledge directly in my brain and fingers, no practice required at all.
>>12004716>For all you know I could have magically imprinted the necessary skill and knowledge directly in my brain and fingers, no practice required at all.That would also be cheating, hope that helps.
>>12004718No it wouldn't. If a more talented person beats your ass with no prior practice you can cope and seethe all you want, but it's fair unless they are literally cheating midgame.
>>12004390Rewind and Save States are the same thing. For example, the Doom community is so addicted to cheating that Rewind is the marquee feature of their speedtranny port.
>>12004187Games that demand you cheat in order to learn them are just badly designed games, and shouldn't be bothered with. Autistic memoshit especially is a waste of life. Sorry Mark, you didn't beat the game.
>be little OP>go to school, special needs class of course >math lecture, teacher is explaining the class how2fractionals>but he sucks and can't explain for shit>try to read my textbook, also can't understand shit because it's written expecting the teacher to do his job properly >exam next week, fast-forward to that >most of the class gets a passing mark, I get a F instead >wonder how could that happen, so I ask the other students about it>they tell me they just watched a video on their phone about fractionals>proceed to scream at the top of my lungs how they "cheated" and "didn't learn fractionals">get detention >eventually go home and tell my parents the news >they beat my ass for being especially retarded
>>12002265No, there are people who are either 1) cognitively dissonant to whats actually happening Or2) purposely choosing to fan the flamesAccepting it's technically cheating and just saying "welp, it makes it easier to fit gaming into my life and im ok with it being cheating, as long as I finish the game in a timely manner."If they just admit it and moved on and accepted it, there would be no problems. It's people unwilling to accept reality. Save states in games without them is a technical cheat at its base and hyper cheating at its worst.
>>12004781This isn't even close to save states. You wasted everyone's time, especially yours, by typing this out like a dip shit. Watching a video and learning a skill is the same as not using savestate and learning how to play the game better. A more apt comparison would be you failing your fractions test, then getting a special case where you can do an "open book" test or whatever and you just copy paste answers and never actually learn how to do fractions. That's what savestates are like, dingus McGee. Holy fucking idiotic zoomer trash.
I'm using it because a game I am playing for some reason appears to be bugged and keeps skipping past the save screen
>>12002265I've already proven myself as a gamer. I beat more NES hard games before I was 10 than most people will beat in their entire lives, all without guides or cheats. if I want to use save states to checkpoint the start of a level I'll fucking do it.
>>12004781The purpose of school/studying is learning, how you ultimately achieve that learning is irrelevant.The purpose of a game is not to beat it, it's to play it. That is, you cannot seperate the end state from the process.
>>12004791>Watching a video and learning a skill is the same as not using savestate and learning how to play the game better.It's a third party tool though, compared to the teacher's explanation and the textbook anyways.>A more apt comparison would be you failing your fractions testBut I didn't take the actual test until the next week. Any other equation involving fractions I solved or failed to solve before doesn't affect the result, I'm allowed to spend all my time doing them or decide to wing it.>just copy paste answers If anything you can say that about people watching replays, which is an entirely different topic. Emulator tools don't reveal the answers here, they are the equivalent of getting a better education.> never actually learn how to do fractionsBut fact of the matter is that the students did solve the fractions, much like the arcade players got the 1ccs. They didn't learn your way, but results speak for themselves.
>>12004791In case this wasn't obvious, >>12004781 isn't talking about using save states during a clear attempt. They are talking about practicing individual segments with save states and then going back to do a contiguous 1CC. OP thinks doing this is cheating, and that if a single save state is ever used at any point in the history of you playing the game, all future gameplay is permanently tainted as illegitimate because you practiced in a way the developers did not intend for you to be able so.
>>12004821These niggas are really sitting in their rooms spamming load state and calling themselves "arcade players".
>>12004827They are arcade players in [current year], not LARPers who still think it's the 80s.
>>12004825>all future gameplay is permanently tainted as illegitimateYou took a shortcut and want to say you finished the marathon.
>>12004835No retard, I ran the entire length of the marathon during the actual marathon.But before doing that I practiced it in segments in private instead of always running the whole length. How much helpful is that is another story but heh.
This thread is really just going to be>You cheated!>Did not!>Did too!over and over and over and over again until it reaches the bump limit, isn't it?
>>12004821It doesn't matter if it's a third party tool if you're learning how to do fractions. That's irrelevant to my comparison where you in fact fail your fractions test.Using savestates to learn the game, then playing it without savestates isn't my problem, I'm also not OP. My problem is with people who use savestates to get through a game, but wouldn't be able to without savestates. I'm also not opposed to using savestates to save in games and be able to come back later, like most pc games have had since the 80s. It's cheating, but it's convenient and sometimes I just don't care. Using savestates to get good at certain segments of games that would be impossible to practice like that otherwise, is like doing steroids.
>>12004837The marathon in this case isn't the 1cc run but achieving the 1cc run, for that you took a short cut, you cheated, all because you were too lazy to put in the full effort and believed you were entitled to the end state.
>>12004846But that's factually wrong. The run is the actual run.There isn't a single context outside of your autism where the learning/practice part is what's being evaluated as opposed to the end results of it. That's like, the whole point of practice existing.>>12004843>Using savestates to get good at certain segments of games that would be impossible to practice like that otherwise, is like doing steroids.Very arbitrary standards aside, you have to explain how exactly it would be impossible here. We are talking about doing things like make a save state on the last stage of an arcade game just so you don't have to play every stage every single time you want another take at it. And mind you, it's entirely about wasting time here because arcade allows you to credit feed so if you wanted to get to the last stage every single run you could do that regardless of current skill level.
>>12004846In a post save state world, training with skill-saves is undetectable. Maybe you should stop caring about 1cc trannies because any of their clears could have been "juiced" with save state training.
Save States are always cheating but there is nuance in where most people won't care. For example I mainly only use save states as a backup save just in case something goes wrong with the actual in-game saves. The only other times I will use save states is to cut down on some tedium, like for example if a checkpoint to retry the boss fight is for example requires to walk down a few hallways with no gameplay challenges for no reason, so the save state just saves time.I'm always pretty transparent on when, where and how I use Save states which I think is fine. I think as long as you are transparent on how you used Save States most won't care. Abusing Save States then pretending you didn't is where you'll likely draw ire (and rightfully so).
>>12004874If you didn't cheat to practice you wouldn't have gotten the 1cc, no doubt about it.
>>12002265yes I think save states are cheatingyes I use save statesyes I cheat when playing old ass fucking games from when I was a toddlerno I don't give a fuck about the way it was intended to be played
i do not care I'm not replaying levels 1 through 9 a dozen times because the last boss is some gay "memorize this pattern" bullshit
>>12002265i really don't care if it is cheating or notyou do youi do me
If you reply directly to OP this thread was made for you.
>>12002280Using save states to practice lets you play and beat more games. As an adult nobody has time to sit and redo the entire game 20x to get that one section before the final boss so you can keep trying that.
>>12002338Is different practicing to do a billy mitchel claiming you didn't knew that wasn't how 1cc are done.Most people that did 1cc was because talent or poor in the 90s so we had to find ways to keep playing one game since was expensive to play.My way was simply challenge anyone on fighting games with one rule either i win or we both due sometimes going 8 draw fights which was the limit, but is boring when you get older, kinda similar to those saying "charity play 48 hours straight playing" you know is a lie if the don't have diapers and other stuff on.>>12002750You know there isn't practice in arcade since no one cared about 1cc back then, anyone saying 1cc is clear they mever lived or were born then, the only thing we cared was high scores and nothing else if you continued a lot no one cared but if you had hi score you were the hero (with arcade owner putting your pic on wall of hi scorers).
>>12005012>as an adult nobody has 10 minutes to pass that 20 seconds part of the stage over and over.You have the time but you just want to get an achievemeng no one cares.
80s>I got a game genie for infinite lives so I don't have to keep replaying the first levels>based!now>I used save states so I didn't have to keep replaying the first levels>YOU DIDN'T BEAT THE GAME
>>12002268fpbp
I just watch vtubers play retro games
>>12005125Gamegenie wasn't common since was sold on certain stores or by mail order otherwise you wouldn't even know, take me i learned nes and snes had a pro action replay only on 2005 but before that i didn't knew like most normal people, yes we learn't lot of stuff to glitch games but wasn't cheating.>glitch to duplicate items>glitch to get infinite money>glitch for 99 livesAnd so on that needed you to learn everything about the game which isn't the same shit as just splicing video and posting it online pretending you are live streaming (is simple to do).
>>12005151>sold on certain storesstopped reading right thereyou could literally buy it at toys r us, kmart, and any other store that 99% of americans were likely to buy their games at
>>12005125>not using your game genie to make games harder
>>12004874>We are talking about doing things like make a save state on the last stage of an arcade game just so you don't have to play every stage every single time you want another take at itits cheating, because there is no way to get there without the steroid, i mean savestate. its like 90s baseball, samy sosa and mark mcgwire. they absolutely smashed the homerun record, because they used a tool that let them get somewhere they wouldnt have been able to get otherwise. thats exactly what you do when you practice a later stage of an arcade game using steroidstates.
>>12005194Its is simple, practice isn't game it is work, so practicing retard isn't playing game, he is working the work, i.e. doing sport for the win/brag/end result, not playing game for the gameplay.Why is that? It is simple. End result is like war, any means are valid, cheats are valid, even poison the opponents before the match is valid. Sport players are always cheating it is officially acknowledged, like soccer players fall to the ground pretending to be hit to frame the opponents. Any bullshit is valid for the sport, for the win, for the end result.But games are different. Games are played for the process of game play, not for the result. The very premise of playing game is FOLLOWING RULES, who don't follow rules isn't playing, he is destroying the game, i.e. doing work sport. Sport never follow rules, he is breaking them as shortcut to easier win.So this is ultimately on the attitude of "player". Who is he? Player for the game or sport shit head for the win. They are the polar opposites.
>>12002265I use save states from time to time, but i don't consider that i beaten the game if i used em.
Why would anyone waste their time arguing with this retard? You could be training to 1CC or score run your favorite game instead of debating with a simpleton.
>>12005158Why are you pretending you are from USA skirt wearing faggot?.You aren't from U.S in first place and with luck you are on your 20s so you don't know shit of how things were back then, with luck game genie was known, it became more known after the 2000s thanks to internet but before that was always.>check catalog of new things from stores.>word of advice for known things.>check biggest store in city, if they don't have it well it doesn't exist.Always was like that.
>>12002265>Guys you have to leave your computer running overnight you can't save the gameDude they just couldn't do exit saves, and when they started being able to do them you could get like a dozen saves on a memory card. When they ported games to PC they put quick saves in them.
>>12005390even in that case, it probably fucks with RNG calculation
>>12005240>Its is simple, practice isn't game it is work"You can't cheat at a game if you aren't playing it." The 0 IQ mind at work.>Games are played for the process of game play, not for the result.Therefore cheating to practice is wrong because you are skipping part of the process.
>>12002769No cheating, all legit hardware.t. Milly Bitchel.
>>12002964I want to play a specific segment. Either to practice it or because I like it - doesn't matter. I'm not going to play the parts I don't want to play to play the part I DO want to play.
>>12005359Because I already got them, unlike OP and hit butt buddy who will never get anything and kept making threads to seethe about arcade for nearly one year now.
>>12005432>hello you absolute legends. I'm changing from speedrunning to van life content following my court loss
>>12005419If you cheat in game you didn't have the intention of playing it from the very beginning. Even if you just thinking about cheating you don't want to play. Cheating is the excuse for not playing. You hate to play and you want to get rid of game so you cheat. Play-pretend normie game hater. You can't just not play and go away from gamed to to something different because games are trend, you HAVE TO play against your will, so you pretend using cheats. That's the usual hypocritical posers normie trash, all fake, all your lives are fake.
When it comes to the arcade side of the "debate", reminder it's just the autistic screeching of an eternal loser.The vast majority of the community agreed that using emulator tools or stage select in console ports is a fair way to practice whatever your objective is(1cc of any given difficulty, high scores, custom challenges, whatever), the devs obviously agreed by putting in these features in the more modern releases(not even that modern, I have a PS2 port right here released back in 2004 that includes a "practice mode", it splits the stages in 2 halves and lets you only play that segment and pretty sure this isn't the earliest example either), it's basically an open secret that all the recorded superplays or even possibly average 1cc attempts you see around come from players who did all these things and even watched other people play to learn things like safespots, weird tricks to get bigger numbers, or straight up copypaste the gameplay. Some of these players stream themselves practicing in the open, effectively promoting their methods.
>>12005567>and pretty sure this isn't the earliest example eitherThere is the PS2 DDPDOJ port released in 2003, very close to the actual arcade release as well.It includes an extensive training mode where you can even manually change the rank, something that as far I'm aware people don't even bother doing with emulators.
>>12005372you're meds, m'lady
>>12005567>A bunch of cheaters thought cheating was fine.Damn that's crazy.
>>12005586>everyone(even the devs apparently) is a cheater except meYou don't even play though.
>>12005589There you go posting nonsense again. Please come back when you can make a coherent point.
>>12005592You haven't made a coherent point ever since the thread started. Hence why you are here screeching anonymously instead of confronting the community you seem to be at odds with directly.
>>12005501Funnily enough, Billy was the one who bragged about how he would buy a van from court money. Guess they'll both will have road stories to share.
>>12002265I want to BEAT games. Completing games normally doesn't mean I beat the game, I'm just a gamer sheep being led by the game. The game beat me at that point. It took MY time away from me and forced me to follow its inane rules. You might be content to be a slave, but I am a free man!I break through the glass ceiling opposed on gamers by game society. I use all illegal tools I can get my hands on to thoroughly beat the game. To death. I have murdered thousands (of games) this way, they never stood a chance.
>>12002908George Wood...
>>12005543updoot
>>12005372>Why are you pretending you are from USA skirt wearing faggot?.Why are you, ESL pajeet?
I usually screenshot passwords but then you have games like Maniac Mansion famicom and HOLY BALLS! How did people put up with this back in the day?
>>12005870>How did people put up with this back in the day?It was the only thing they could play for a long while, so might as well.
>>12005543>The devs didn't intend for savestatesYes.>Going back to the first level after dying is goodOnly happens on harder difficulties, usually you have multiple lives and/or continues.>I'd rather take 2 weeks to finish 15 minutes of contentYes.>Getting to the end of the game is not the same as beating itYes.>Tedium is the same as challengeYes.
1 credit cheater sisters... we dun feel so good...
>>12005870the maniac mansion soundtrack has to be one of the most grating things in all of games. i couldn't make it more than 10 minutes
>>12005359Not using save states to practice just takes more time. The end result is the same, both players can complete a 1CC run or just clear the game or whatever. This is normal and more or less encouraged in the shmup community, all the top players today do it, surely.It's kind of where I draw the line, nowadays we have access to more games easily whereas in the past people did not. So to play and enjoy more games it just makes sense.
>>12006396Why bumping only to say this? Read the thread and you can see he will just tell you it's cheating because it is.
what's the +200 post ruckus lol. saves or not, i still played the game up to that specific point by myself, not by cheating. in other words, saving and loading can't magically skip content you haven't already played
>>12006918it's low-hanging fruit topic for a board filled with insufferable autists that have a tantrum when people don't do things the same exact way they do
>>12006396>both players can complete a 1CC run or just clear the game or whatever.No, pretty sure the cheating save stater has to reply on save states or they lose. That's what some anons don't get. You can do what you want to do, but if you use save states to "git gud" at Ninja Gaiden NES, you will ever ever get on my level. The things I can do would amaze you, but you can't get that way by passing up those stages that the game forces you to repeat.
*same applies to arcade games that brutally send you back if you dare mess up on the last level. You get really good at those other parts, so good that you can't help but become an expert at the part BEYOND them because the normal original process was created to perfectly hone your gaming abilities.tl;dr save states are training wheels
>>12005125I don't get this argument. No one back then remotely pretended that using Game genies were legitimate ways to beat a game, we used game genies to fuck around and have fun.
>>12007025Nobody counts save states in their clear run. Practice only. If you can do stages 1-4 or whatever, there's no point in doing them over and over to get to stage 5 so you can practice that until you get it down or whatever. You could keep replaying those stages each time, sure. But it accomplishes and changes nothing.
>>12005160based!
>>12007025This. No short cuts, just pure skill that is gained by playing. It's like if you only ever practiced scales on a guitar and then someone asks you to write a song. Well, you don't know how to write a song, because you only ever played scales. So, your attempts are technically a song, but it just sounds like your practicing scales. >>12007517>it accomplishes and changes nothing.There's a whole breadth of depth you dont get, of you just practice certain parts .
jesus, the absolute fucking scrubbery of this thread. fucking resetera cares more about vidya
>>12007517>You could keep replaying those stages each time, sure. But it accomplishes and changes nothing.The grind is part of the challenge, you're skipping part of the challenge and then claiming there's no difference between you and someone who did it the hard way. Literally any human can 1CC a game via your ridiculous cheating method.
>>12006918Consequences of death are an important part of the game, you skipping those consequences with a third party program means you are no longer playing the game. You didn't beat the game because you didn't even play the game.
>>12007620this is the perfect explanation. experienced =/= beaten
>>12007029Did you took your troon meds yet or you will pretend to be normal despite being caught on /a/ being a small dick faggot troon.Years and still assblasted because aqua mocked smoll dick.
>>12007025>The things I can do would amaze youActions speak louder than words here, so pick an arcade game and post your run, with replay and all.
>>12007620>>12007657yeah i get it now. if i avoided losing a 1up by loading my own save, it makes a difference; if i avoided something that's of no consequence by loading a save, it doesn't make a difference.>>12006957i guess pretending that every game or situation fall under same definition (like OP say) is just a very binary and anal way of thinking about it.
>>12005125people used game genie to do weird shit to the game, not cheat. It was fun to look up weird codes and added replayability to simple games.
>>12007893Jesus christ, where does this level of retardation come from? Did you learn about the Game Genie from some 12 year old YouTuber?Protip: the Game Genie came with a fucking book full of codes that were 99.9% just "infinite lives", "infinite continues", "infinite ammo", nobody had the internet to look up "weird shit"
>>12002265I use save states to pick up where I left off. But first I let the logos and intro play out because I'm an autist.
>>12007598>Literally any human can 1CC a game via your ridiculous cheating method.Obvious troll is obvious.
>>12002265>using save statesYES ME.>IT IS LE cheating!I do not care I play for fun!>IT IS LE cheating!I also use cheats and trainers. What will you do about it? Save states are still not cheating!>MUH DEVELOPER INTENTIONS!LOL Play some old PC games and then come back. These things where shit and needed save states to make them good.>MUH DEVELOPER INTENTIONS!Then why did the devs build in savestates into the game?
>>12002265They can be warranted in games like Dragon Quest and Dragon Quest II. The endgame grind of the first game is insanely mind numbing and I put the Dragonlord to sleep and save state RNG manipulated him to never wake up so I could kill him 1 damage at a time, I was not grinding extra because my name gave me bad strength growth. In DQ2 its even more warranted as the end game is just a complete gamble even after grinding, there's an enemy thay can just cast a spell that instant kills your whole party at a 100%, one of the bosses has the ability too, and the final boss can fully heal itself an infinite number of times, the whole final stretch is just a matter of luck.I would say Adventure of Valkyrie and Faxanadu also warrant them, but specially just using them as if the games had battery saves where it gives passwords, since loading a password does not let you keep all your stuff and you need to waste time grinding in the case of Faxanadu or waste time regrabbing your equipment around the world in Valkyrie.
People who enjoy video games don't use savestates. But if you for some reason force yourself to play video games even though you don't enjoy them, then please do feel free to rush as a fast as possible to the end by any means necessary.
>>12002265What a stupid garbage rage bait troll thread (which is against the rules). Fucking of course save states are cheating, that’s not debatable.
>>12008135They use them for things like skipping cutscenes on a repeat playthrough or arcade practicing.
>>12003745>-t. resets Ninja Gaiden if I die even once.Zoomies will never understand this secret. When you are 30+ minutes minutes into a game your actions have consequences. Psychologically your brain is way more invested in your actions and remembers your mistakes much better than grinding savestates. Zoomers who say shit like " I WILL beat the game faster than you" are completely wrong and have never actually played a game.
How do you people manage to argue about this shit
>>12008147Nothing more irresistible than calling somebody a faggot on the internet
>>12005572>PS2 DDPDOJ portNot the same game
>>12008120so much fucking wrong with one post
>>12008163>play totally different game on PS2>suddenly become able to 1cc DOJ on cabMagic
I think you are underestimating the chad retard who gets the same physiological reward response to beating a game by cheating that than the highest, hardest most dedicating game achievements of legit superplayers.
>>12008165>so much fucking wrong with one postYou can not debate any of them fagot!If the developers did not intended (NOT THAT I CARE LOL) it then why did they put it into the game?You can not debate this. Fagots like you have no arguments!
>>12008174Going by OP logic, the superplayers in question would also be cheaters because more often than not they use third-party tools to learn and watch each other replays.
>>12008171>exploits a different game to try and manufacture crossover instead of just playing the arcade versionYou'll do anything besides just playing the game
>>12008183Do nips really use savestates?The samurai have indeed fallen.
>>12008195Sure they do. Watch some shmup streams when they show practice runs.
>>12002268/Thread
>>12008187Could call it a form of legacy skill if you really want to be extremely autistic about it, but the bottom line is that now the player who does that is indeed able to find a DOJ cab somewhere and leave it with a 1cc on the board.
>>12008223>leave it with a 1cc on the board.Okay but before that you tried to avoid actually playing the game as much as possible
>>12008236They must be an incredibly talented player then, somehow managing to pull that off without ever playing the game before.
>>12008236All successful people in any game or sport have put significantly more hours into practice than into official games.
>>12008243Like I keep saying, using savestates in a port of a game is trying to manufacture crossover to the actual game they are trying to play, which is the arcade game. Why don't they just play the arcade game instead? Savestaters just hate the game for some reason. Or are too afraid to play it. Or too insecure. I don't know, why don't they just play the game?
>>12008252>Savestaters just hate the game for some reason.That's just your autistic headcanon.>Why don't they just play the arcade game instead? I can think of a myriad of reasons, the most obvious one is not having access to the required hardware, followed by not wanting to leave your home just to play vidya if you happen to live near to an arcade place in [current year] and it just happens to include the game you care about too.
>>12008251Bad analogy. Why are you trying to avoid just playing the game? You know, just playing it and getting better at it. It's extremely simple.
>>12008260In current yeah you can emulate every single game and play it completely toolless. Thought it's not EXACTLY the same because of input discrepcencies and most importantly: not pay to play investment, you can still actually play the game in the arcade format without any further third party assistance.
>>12008265>you can still actually play the game in the arcade format without any further third party assistanceWhich is what you will do once you are done with your practice, since that was the point of it.
>>12008261You reach a point where you can do all the early levels in your sleep, so continuing to repeat those levels in practice doesn't actually make you much better, while playing the later levels you're not so familiar with will help you improve a lot more. At that point, you savestate in a later level that's giving you trouble so you can practice it. This is still playing the game.
>>12008270>once you are done with your practiceYeah then you can actually play the game lmao. Why not just do that from the beginning?
>>12008271>You reach a point where you can do all the early levels in your sleepThis is a great thing. Being able to masterfully execute a well crafted game, in part or in full, is a privilege and enjoyment. Why are you trying to avoid this? Do you hate the game?
>>12008273>Why not just do that from the beginning?Because >>12008271If you are trying to improve for some sort of objective that required practice and consistency, there is little point in wasting time with what you can pull off flawlessly the vast majority of the time.
>>12008283>playing the game is a waste of timeWe are done here. Savestaters don't actually like videogames.
>>12008286Nobody needs your approval to say they are having fun, you realize. There is nothing to prove here other than the fact you are giga autistic.
i can understand not wanting to cheat in a new-to-you retro game. but arent most of us just playing the same games we have been for decades? im not going to forego a convenience feature on my 9001st playthru because of le principles and le challenge. any semblance of challenge has been gone for decades
>>12008273Practicing is still playing.
>>12008145>When you are 30+ minutes minutes into a game your actions have consequences. Psychologically your brain is way more invested in your actions and remembers your mistakes much better than grinding savestates.Yup. Save-staters are like the cheating marathon runner who had a rest and some juice and cookies before sneaking back into the race and "winning." Those cheaters can't tell you anything about how it really felt to win the race no matter how hard they try.[fixed]
>>12008331>beating vidya games is serious businessits so not man. sorry to hear that these are like life milestones for you
>>12002265I personally never use save states unless im scared of some emulation glitch so i have a failsafe, you know.But as for others using them, in my opinion, someone who just beats the game once by save stating their way through every mistake didn't beat the game. But someone who does that and then goes back to the start and actually beats it again, this time with no save states, is fair enough. They kinda cheated to have an easier time practicing but they then went and did it the intended way.Not trying to say this is some objectively correct take. Just how i feel about it
>>12008337No, me beating Ninja Gaiden before puberty was a "video game milestone". Maybe you should stop projecting?But make no mistake, I am better than just about anyone here at a classic video game and my knowledge of secrets surpasses all of youtube. That's just video games.
>>12008324This is an interesting take. Just like how many old games would have unlockable invincibility and other cheats like that AFTER you beat them or AFTER you do some optional challenges. You can see save states in a game you've beaten a hundred times the same way, you've already had the intended experience a million times now you're just fucking around with it
>>12008351Same anon as this post. I wanna expand my thoughts and say it's pretty similar to modding. People who go crazy modding a game before their FIRST playthrough are stupid and insane. But if you've played it a bunch of times then yeah mod all you want
>>12008331>>When you are 30+ minutes minutes into a game your actions have consequences. Psychologically your brain is way more invested in your actions and remembers your mistakes much better than grinding savestates>>Yup. Save-staters are like the cheating marathon runner who had a rest and some juice and cookies before sneaking back into the race and "win." Those cheaters can't tell you anything about how it really felt to win the race no matter how hard they try.Why was this deleted?>marathon >marathon games are like a marathon !LOL NO! We are talking about broken, glitched, developed by absolute idiots titles here. It is not a marathon because they can have literal bullshit cheep kills in them, literal boss drops on your face. Also if the devs (not that I care) literally build in the save scumming functionality into the game itself then it is the right way to play the game. Blame the DEVS!
>>12005125Modern gaming culture and its consequences where a disaster for the human race.
>with these "save states" I can finish more games than Howard!
>>12008279>Why are you practicing your short game at the range? You're just avoiding the initial drives, do you hate golf? Just play a full 18 holes every time! Skipping to the short game is cheating!
>>12007568Really? So if I keep replaying the same part I know how to clear, over and over again I'm missing out on depth? There are only some specific circumstances I can see in this, like maybe changing your approach in a section or doing something that may have an effect later in the game you didn't consider consider or know about but it's not necessary.
>>12008195Samurai are villainized in lots of Japanese media. They weren't often good people, past their bushido code of honor.
>>12007598But if you can clear the game without using save states then you can clear the game. The only difference is that the guy who didn't use save states to practice spend more time doing the same thing.
>>12002265It's definitely cheating, I just don't personally find it to be that big of a deal. As long as the person who uses it makes sure to tell that it was used, I think it's perfectly fine to use them if you're struggling, but want to keep playing.
