Do you prefer literal translations or localizations of Japanese games?
The translator should translate as literally as possible, then a competent editor should edit it so it reads naturally, without making stuff up or changing things just because.
>>12042435That rabbits dynamite
I prefer natural and appealing sounding translations that convey the original meaning as much as possible. But I will still enjoy localizations that take more liberties, as long as the script is actually entertaining to read.
>>12042435literal translations are unreadable
>>12042435I personally do raw translations and hand them off to my sister in law to edit them. When she returns them to me, sometimes I'm amazed at the shit she manages to produce based on the source text.People who are actually good at writing are fuckin' scary.
>>12042435100% as literal as possible is going to sound unnatural, but changing what the characters are saying is also badThere's a perfect middle ground where the meaning is completely preserved but the dialogue sounds natural
>>12042435It depends, as concepts like idioms are famously difficult to directly translate. As long as the core meaning and nuance is carried over, localizations are fine. Once they start to inject their own perspectives beyond just making things sound more natural, they lose out. Similarly direct translations that make little sense or lose meaning can benefit from revision, so long as the above applies. Case by case.
>>12042435ESLs tricked you into thinking literal means broken English.
>>12042556That's because the majority of so-called "literal" renderings out there are rife with pseudo-English pidgin, "manglish" that reads like nothing any native speaker has ever uttered for as long as the language has existed.The worst part is that weaboos who have grown up reading these dog-ass quality anime subtitles, manga scamlations, and romhacked games have been conditioned to think that garbage is "quality" and perceive it as being superior because since it reads like stilted trash that it -must- somehow be closer to the true meaning of the JP text.
>>12042446Entertainment is what I’m seeking, but that’s no reason for censure. If I’m seeking the original meaning I might as well play it in the original language.A game should convey its message through gameplay more than through text, otherwise it’s a bad game. Most of the time the original translation does the job.
>>12042556"literal translation" does end up as broken english because the structure and some word are pure nonsense. you mean formal equivalence
>>12042572For years, my only access to the Goemon games was in native Japanese, which I don't speak. I got a lot of enjoyment out of them, even without understanding the text or cultural nuances, because what required no translation ranged from good to excellent. That said, even in games like those, text would sometimes be the glue that ties together plot points and necessary direction. I get your point, but even in great games that aren't text heavy, it can still vary from helpful to necessary. Translation guides would do the trick in situations like that when available, but I feel concepts like EoP shouldn't be so dismissive.That said, you're right that most translations are adequate, even when not optimal. Its just a shame when the text is core to the experience, as it is in some genres.
>>12042435Localization should carry the death penalty. Its especially offensive when they use blatant western cultural references and slang.In regards to translation. The best translations are ones with extensive translator notes. I was watching an anime once with a literal fan translation and multiple times you would see a giant wall of text appear for a few frames, this would explain in great detail the cultural context that could not be translated. For games, implementing translator notes would be even more viable, since they could be expanded interactively.
Literal. When I'm watching some British TV, I don't want the British slang removed. If I'm watching Game Center CX, I want Arino to be called Kacho, not Chief. If I wanted a localized version of something, I'd ask for a local remake of it. I want the media in another language translated into my language, I don't want it altered to be "more appealing" or "more easily understood" to me. Non-literal translations aren't much different than fan-fiction.
>>12042620>>12042616you are so fucking obtuse
>>12042462This. But anyone willing to attempt it is either retarded or so up their own ass that they can't do natural dialogue. It really seems to be a two person job.
>>12042435As literal as possible. Only tourists disagree with this. Fans have been translating games in this manner for decades and everyone understands them just find.
>>12042649>everyone understands them just findpottery
>>12042652Fine*Don't be pedantic anon.
>>12042578Finally someone who knows something about translation studies.
"Literal translations" are a strawman by fanfic writers and failed authors
>>12042658In a thread about "literal translation"? What can one be if not pedantic?
Funnily enough I hate Crono Cross as a game but it has some of my favorite dialog in any RPG. It has so much character like a disney adventure movie cast.I greatly prefer voice acting even if its bad.
>>12042448Exactly. Only contemporary autistic retards think that there is some magical meaning only to be found if the translation is as close to the source words as possible. Are we keeping Japanese sentence structure as well...?What one might want is a *literary* translation:https://poeditor.com/blog/types-of-translation/You want to keep the original intent and style of the language. But if the source is dependent on a cultural phenomenon not available in the target language, then trying to find a suitable substitute in the target culture is better.Example: No one in the west will know the names of the tools used for rice farming. So if that's a character in the work, it might be better to make him be some other kind of farmer, to avoid reader confusion.
The best translations are where the localiser throws away the source material and just writes what makes sense.
>>12042569See your problem is you're a stupid motherfucker that thinks the product of a SEA resident that can't read the source language and can barely understand the target language but has google is a real translation.
I like when fantasy jrpgs have renaissance faire writing like ultima
>>12042693Based.
>>12042435No.
>>12042710The idea that Skies of Arcadia has some made-up translation is a complete fucking myth and I really wish people would stop parroting everything they read on a forum
>>12042739>has some made-up translation is a complete fucking mythOh yeah? The myth that came straight from the translator's own mouth?
I don't want my foreign media scrubbed clean of being foreign. I like learning about other cultures.
>>12042435i play the original
>>12042743You're doing that thing where you parrot what you've read on forums.
>>12042435The thing that disgusts me the most is when a game has Japanese voice actors and the character clearly says one word but you get a wall of reddit quip text instead of a real translation.
>>12042739>>12042762in the age of the internet where you can find complete playthroughs of both the english and japanese versions on youtube you should be able to easily disprove the claim that the translation is made up. go ahead.
>>12042435No matter what kind of translation you get you'll never understand the extent of what gets localized and what gets translated. Its a perpetually cucked experience I always liken it to your dad reading you a bedtime story because you are too young to read it yourself. There can never be a perfect translation because just the fact that its in english evokes different imagery in your brain when you read it. When you get the english sentence you get the english baggage, you get the english speaking societal norms, the stereotypes, the archetypes. You can understand the meaning but itll always be fundamentally different.
>>12042435The fan translation seems to be the closest here.
>>12042845That's true to an extent, but not as much as you insinuate. Cultural exposure fills in those gaps, especially through repetition. When you see similar theming, you subconsciously pick up on patterns and references that help reduce the divide. Simply put, if you keep seeing references to something like kabuki theatre and start making connections, you will slowly begin to understand common aspects of that part of the culture. Think of stories like Journey West, its common usage in theming creates pasterns in the minds of people who have zero cultural exposure to its historical legacy, as that theming has become part of said legacy. The onus then falls on the individual to educate themselves if they want to understand more, which then adds additional layers to the original exposures as a reward. Many games do this very well with both localization and more direct translation when they are done correctly, I'm sure most of central and south america have a pretty good idea of the themes around the Sacred Treasures thanks to KoF alone. Just like your father reading you that story, it can be done in a way that you would remember it and apply that to future stories, developing an understanding without words. That's the beauty of expressive storytelling.
>>12042872There's no need to specify that she has incredible powers since the preceding lines already have them dropping their spaghetti about M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-MAGIC!?The Japanese text is not sacred. It is a guide, but not scripture. A smart translator/localizer/editor knows when they should tweak things so they don't sound too repetitive or awkward since the structures of a language pair often differ greatly in what sounds acceptable.Taking 1 line out of context to try and bash a translation is not a valid form of criticism. You must always account for a larger scope if you actually want a seat at the table of translation/localization discussion.
>>12042884>There's no need to specify that she has incredible powersTell that to the japs that did with that line.
The translation problem is easily solved by not playing foreign video games
>>12042616Cultural references I understand, but Japanese slang makes no fucking sense in English, and there are always analogues to replace them with.
>>12042658He wasn't even being pedantic. He was pointing out irony.
Are there any video game translations out there that don't even attempt to localize and just have translation notes everywhere? That seems like it would be very unfun to read, but I'm curious if anybody has tried that.
Car crash of an OP.
>>12042884>A smart translator/localizer/editor knows when they should tweak things so they don't sound too repetitive or awkwardHrng... not sound too repetitive or awkward?
>>12042435>Oh, yeah, she does seem to have some amazing innate powers...People arguing for fan translations genuinely think this is is a literal translation
Definitely neither. After learning Japanese you realise that the difference between the most dogshit localisation work ever and the most carefully thought out literal rewrite is like the difference between eating fish that has been rotting for a week an eating fish that has been rotting for a day. Fewer translations increase the probability of people learning Japanese and being able to actually read them.
RUB A CHEESE THIS CHICKS WRECKS WITH EASE
>>12042435Nobody but the most insufferable of autismos really minded localization until every single member of the localizer's guild contracted a terminal case of California Brain sometime around 2014. The artless literalists are merely a lesser of two evils.
>>12042743>The myth that came straight from the translator's own mouth?Translators love to lie. Kid Icarus on the 3DS is a good one, they openly stated that they just threw out the whole script and had full creative control. All the good jokes were in the original, they did do a lot of rewrites, but these were either insanely unfunny or outright ruined characterisation. Blaustein famously claimed that he invented the HALO jump, which appeared in MGS3, a game years after he'd been completely excised from MGS. Agness Kaku still insists she knows Japanese, despite all evidence to the contrary. The guys who worked on Animal Crossing insisted that the Japanese loved their work so much that they had it re-translated for a GC re-release of the game in Japan, when what actually happened is that the Japanese re-release used the western signs and holiday names, the rest of the script is the same as the N64 version. The guys who fucked up Ghost Stories insisted the show was unpopular in Japan to justify their rewrite, when it had better ratings than Pokemon.I haven't bothered with SoA, just because I've never been interested in it. Maybe I'll get around to doing a playthrough so I can actually compare the scripts and kill this myth too.
>>12042435日本語の方がいい
>>12043147Nah bro its fuckin moozookahshii
it depends. While literal can be dry, you want accuracy or you get something weird like Zalbaag's older brother.
>>12043062How would you translate it?
This is the appropriate level of localization.
>>12042829NTA but you can go through the entire script and compare, its even broken down by maps and the different versionshttps://docs google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1ymsbED2lwx-04HcK08-SCsx3dIiuVfHMa28ARAhBFpM/htmlview
>>12042435>GUYS GUYS, BOTH ARE GOOD, AIM I RITE?Eat a dick, we only out out with shitty translations because the games were at least good, except the Working Designs fuckjobs like Rayearth where they fuck the difficulty on porpuse and they made up the lie that OH GEE UMM HUH, AEGA LOST THE ORIGINAL CODE IN A QUAKE SO WE RECONSTRUCTED THE GAME BY REVERSE ENGINEERING WE R SMURT LIKE THAT TRUE N REEEEL!Just like ADV claimed the company who made Ghost Stories told them to do "whatever they wanted" with the dub cause the show "did poorly" in Japan.............American localizers just HATE Japan.
>>12042884Make your own fucking game with your quippy MCU dialogue then, see how it sells, bitch.
>>12042446>I AM FINE WITH SAME OLD SHIT
>>12044246perfection
>>12043024snake does this in both languages, it gives characters an excuse to dump exposition or technical info
you know when you guys misuse the word censorship it degrades the meaning of it, yeah? I'll make it very easy and discrete for you to parse in the future, though:is the change because of a desire to suppress information? censorshipis the change because of a desire to target a market audience? not censorshipthere. now you don't have to be retarded and make language worthless anymore.
>>12042739The idea that Skies of Arcadia is any good is also a myth. I really don't understand how all you children can like it so much unless it was just babby's first jRPG for you.>>12043108>I haven't bothered with SoAHave you played Lufia? It's literally Lufia in a Halloween pirate costume and simplistic everything. Absolute garbage game.
>>12043095You can learn the language to the point of a native and the actual Japanese will still laugh at you because you're reading it all wrong.
>>12042435The only time when literal isn't preferable is when it comes to cultural barriers, like common idioms not making sense in other languages or assumed knowledge of specific events and places.Otherwise, there's no reason to change the script and doing so only serves to undermine the intent of the original author.
Ikimashou > Let's goIkuzo > Let's goIkou > Let's go
>>12043875That just reminded me of the Ocean dub of Dragonball Z which had Vegeta claim early into the show that Goku's father was a "BRILLIANT SCIENTIST"
>>12044305I perused the file a bit and found the translation to be quite accurate.
>>12044547Let us proceedLet's goLet'a get to it
>>12045481NooOoooooOoooOoo it’s not literal and in the spirit of originaaaaal
>>12044356The fuck are you talking about?
>>12045504This but unironically
>>12044493I'm sorry you're too stupid for pitch accent, man. Honestly, I don't even know why they call it pitch accent when it's just inflection. To make it sound more complex than it is?
>>12045629>people whine about pitch accent>tell them to say 昨日 followed by 機能It's amazing how many people think it's impossibru when it is simply acquired through listening and learning vocabulary.
>>12042885Japanese has, on average, a greater tolerance for repetition and certain types of redundancy of ideas:>ラミア「この大陸の他にも様々な大陸があったの。>Lamia: "Besides this continent, there were also various other continents."A decent translator might combine some ideas here to eliminate the repetition of "continent" since it isn't really necessary and isn't being used here for any particular effect.>Lamia: "Besides this continent, there were also various other ones."Now consider this manner of redundancy using fundamentally different word types:>輝きたい衝動に素直で居る>Yield to the urge/impulse to want to shine.While this sounds fine in Japanese because the way 輝きたい (and all manner of ×たい verbs expressing soft desire) describes the type of 衝動 doesn't conflict (The [want-to-shine] urge/impulse), you would not normally double these ideas up in regular spoken/written English. You would almost always consolidate the multiple desire levels, or expand it into multiple clauses with additional information:>Yield to your desire to shine.>Yield to the impulse that makes you want to shine.Then, consider that Japanese has a lot of legitimately incorrect pleonasm that was simply absorbed into the vernacular since it has been used this way since time immemorial and no one really cares:>満天の星空>Star-filled starry sky>馬から落馬>Falling off a horse from a horse>痛い頭痛>Aching headache>炎天下の下>Beneath beneath the blazing sunOf course, you would "correct" all of these by taking the intent rather than the literal unless you had a specific reason not to (e.g. a grammar nazi calls someone out for saying 今の現状/The current situation right now).Most of this feels intuitive and the majority of people will do it automatically since the true meaning of the words will prevail, but it's good to be aware of this and countless other linguistic features/tolerances that may apply to language A, but not language B.
Interesting question.I normally like straight translations, tweaked minimally so any deeper meanings aren't lost.But I have to admit, one of my guilty pleasures is old-style SNK localization, pic related.
It's not a good translation unless it makes /vr/ seethe
>>12045629He said reading.
>>12045782
>>12042441First post best post
>>12042441Exactly right. Make it exact so we get the exact story the original creators intended. Fuck localizers who "localize for regional content" bullshit.
>>12042435Localizations that don’t directly contradict the source. I don’t need “…! This girl is…” bugman dialogue, I just need to know whether or not to attack while the tail is up.
>>12042441You want literally, you've got to learn the original language and read it in that, and even then you won't ever get it 1:1 like a native would.
>>12042441That's called a localization. Changing the literal translation into local dialect. For example from >>12045782:>ラミア「この大陸の他にも様々な大陸があったの。>Lamia: "Besides this continent, there were also various other continents."becomes>Lamia: There were continents other than ours.but this can have a different phrasing depending on tone of character speech >Lamia: Our continent is not alone.>Lamia: There were other continents around the world.etc.
Literal/AI translation >>> Working Designs' unfunny garbage >>> Tumblr SJW '"localization"'
>>12046542the fact you don't know there's more localization styles than "edgy" and "kosher" says a lot
>>12042435The original translation would almost be the best, except "loaded for bear" is such an old-man phrase.>>12042872It actually seems to be the furthest, strangely wordy and there's nothing in there about innateness, the speaker should be too dense in the moment to piece that part together.
>>12046528You're casting pearls before swine trying to get these retarded neanderthals to understand nuance in language and translation.
>>12046643>It actually seems to be the furthestInnate shouldnt be there but word for word its the closest. Which is why its a bit awkward but thats how it goes when thats your aim.
>>12046651The intelligent response around these parts is a lack of contradiction, the golden silence. I appreciate your cautious trampling.
>>12046643They tried to translate it kanji by kanji because they are dumb and that was the most sense they could make out of "talent power"
>>12042435GBA translation is best. Japanese has a lot of repetition. There's nothing wrong with making things sound natural. That's what localization is supposed to be (not making shit up).
>>12042435Literal, just obviously not word by word like trannylators want you to believe literal translations are. Everyone who does literal translation makes it grammatically correct.From the screenshot the fan translation looks the best, just remove too many dots.Any kind of localisation maybe other than idioms that have an equivalent is cancer, it's the consumer's responsibility to look up what onigiri is, don't change it to fucking donuts, same with character names, keep the name original, I want to be able to learn that these specific words are a pun in japanese. Same with games in english, I don't want them localised with names or memes from my local language, I want the original meaning. I enjoy learning about other cultures.After seeing what localisers did to games over the last years and their bragging about forcing thier beliefs into the games I would rather play a deepl/ai translation of a game than trannylation.>>12042616>>12042620based
>>12046528>That's called a localizationThen it's a shame then, that this word was co-opted by people doing something so hideously different from what we were just describing.How else can we describe the exact practice that Pokemon Red and Blue KILLED, I wonder?
>>12047362
>>12047374all according to keikaku
>>12047362>Zack DavissonAw God, no, c'mon man...You were exonerated!
>>12047375Someone should fandub a whole anime episode by just writing down the romaji in the subtitles and then putting translations for each word in the TL notes up top.
>>12042435If you can't read kanji in 2025 you're a midwit.DO YOUR REPS YOU FILTHY GAIJIN.
>>12042620>I want Arino to be called KachoBased
>>12047401How so?
>>12048181The issue is that most of the time in vidya translation, we're dealing with mouthbreathing N4s who can barely identify the correct meaning to assign 面白い in different contexts. They don't get to participate in discussions about how to move this craft forward because they refuse to learn the equivalent of crawling in a language yet try desperately to stagger along, clinging to rails they barely have the strength to grasp.
>>12042690>Example: No one in the west will know the names of the tools used for rice farming. So if that's a character in the work, it might be better to make him be some other kind of farmer, to avoid reader confusion.How about having reader look it up in a dictionary, instead of treating him as a retard incapable of learning anything new?>>12046514It can't be helped.
>>12049402>How about having reader look it up in a dictionary, instead of treating him as a retardSometimes yes, sometimes no. Look into how Bible translations are done. They've had to deal with this problem at the deepest of levels, and with the grandest of consequences.
>>12047417Reminds me of watching the Eizouken sub, every time diagrams would appear the entire screen filled with words. Still enjoyable, but I do wish that was left out or at least matched the diagram text size
Anyone who says literal translations are the way doesn't speak more than 1 language. A common Italian phrase is "Non vedo l'ora!" This literally translates to "I can't see the hour!" How does that make sense in English? You translate that to "I can't wait!" because when you translate things you translate meaning/intent not words. Incidentally if you literally translated that back to Italian, they wouldn't understand what the hell you meant.
>>12049402>How about having reader look it up in a dictionary, instead of treating him as a retard incapable of learning anything new?Translations are, definitionally, made for retards who are incapable of learning anything new.
>>12049959Careful, EOPs get really mad when you imply learning what tsundere meant wasn't a defining moment of their youth.Back when I was learning Japanese, I estimated than 10 years of watching over a dozen shows each season with fansubs (with TL notes, of course) would give you roughly the same amount of Japanese knowledge as a month of actual study (taking about as long per day as watching one episode of a show).
>>12049939Unironically I blame the rise of anime/manga and impressionable kids in their formative years being influenced by biased perspectives on subs vs dubs in online culture. They get a special interest in Japanese, don't bother learning other languages that are typically taught in school even though they're usually statistically more important, were probably bad students, and then they have the nerve to turn around act like they're almighty supersecret experts after one course. Most otaku I've met are pretty insufferable and don't understand how languages actually work because of their narrow worldview.
>>12049959Learning an entirely different form of symbology for representing words alongside a completely different grammar system is definitely the same as learning what sushi and katanas are.
>>12050018>katanasIt means "Japanese swords".
>>12050045What does nodachi mean then>zweihander means german sword
>>12049939Thats what translators notes are for anon.
>>12049939Agreed, and that's not even getting into things that the reader could easily misunderstand like false cognates as well. The issue comes down to whether the translator is dedicated to the original intent vs what their own perceived intent is, where people try to inject meaning based off of their assumed subtext. Cultural knowledge can play a part as well, but I think people like cherrypicking extreme examples of shit like ramen = burgers to force an argument. I still remember shows like samurai pizza cats just making shit up and breaking the fourth wall because they knew children in the US weren't going to know dick about the edo period of japan, let alone the ways KNT lampooned it.
>>12050045Do you even khopesh, bro?
>>12049959This, this, 100x this.It doesn't matter how polished a translation is; if some random unemployed subhuman weebnigger armed with GoogleTranslate decides to shit in your bag, you are fucked because your audience is uneducated."Play it in Japanese" is a meme but it's unfortunately a truth.
>>12050114dachi means great sword which katanas were made from, and no (野) means field, so "great japanese field sword", but if you want you can call it a japanisch zweihänder and see how many people you can confuse
>>12046514This is true, you don't get it as a native would. You understand things better, because your command of multiple languages confers you the skill of comparison between tongues, which is something you English-Only mongoloids will never grasp. "lmao", as you inferiors often quip.
Honestly you shouldn't play a game unless you made it because you will never get it like they do.
>>12046514>>12050484>>12050502newsflash, illiteracy exists. being a native has nothing to do with motivation for language comprehension.
>>12050557sorry meant to add this thread themehttps://youtu.be/qWfzKEBwISo
>>12042435I remember wanting translation for a lot of games. Now I just play them in Japanese, much easier and hassle-free.
>>12045481>Let'a get to itmario pls
Dragon quest pisses me off with their anglo accents and slang because I am aware that it is a japanese game
>>12042942...by being pedantic
>>12042435This is a good line.
>>12042435I don't remember the last time I got upset over a translation being too stiff or reading strangely.On the other hand, plenty of times when a translator has thrown in some garbage western flair.
>>12051373It's not a bad way of putting it, but does it fit Locke?
>>12051170I kinda dig the Elizabethan English it used. It made it stand out to me from other RPGs.
>>12042435Everyone touts literal translations as sacred. Personally, I prefer localizations. It's a double edged sword however, they can take a game with shit writing and make it better just as they could take good writing and make it worse. In my opinion literal translations almost always just make the writing worse. Especially if they haven't been properly proofread/edited, then you get some real abominations like "Enemy is in the reach zone"
>>12051761>they can take a game with shit writing and make it betterthis has never happened but im sure many people who only speak one language will have a lot of opinions to the contrary
>>12051784i wouldn't disagree with a polyglot who's played every game in every language like yourself
>>12051815youre the one making the claim you are welcome to back it up.
70% of Woolsey seething is literal autists spilling spaghetti over their lack of reading comprehension with his use of idioms. >>12042435 Slattery genericizes the idea but falls somewhat short, and literalist readings don't understand kanji context. It is unfortunate that discussion of the valid 30% of concern in these works got overshadowed by needless pedantry.
>>12051784Symphony of the Night, OG eng translation is actually great. The original JP and re-translation are dookie.
>>12051761>they can take a game with shit writing and make it betterLike the other guy said, doesn't happen. Who do you think is better at writing, a guy who is literally hired to write, or a retard hired because he's the cheapest editor on offer?There's one entertaining localisation work ever, and that's the first MGS. The changes are severe and generally entertaining, even if they retroactively ruined the rest of the series on about 5 separate levels. Even then, it's not better than the original game, it's just different.
>>12042435I prefer whatever the Gen X translators working in the 90s intended. I trust their judgement far more than zoomer trash armed with AI and "expertise."
i played namingway edition of FF4 I thought it was alright. I just hate the original translations of FF they are too soft sounding and really dated. Ted Woosley is kind of a hack
>>12051951I have half a mind to make a new script port since Namingway Edition is a hodgepodge filter by some telemarketer who doesn't know Japanese.>the whole point of the pictured scene was for Cecil to acknowledge Golbez as his brother>every single version of this game - even the 3D remake that added Golbez's true name - does this>Namingway Edition misses the message entirely because he is a subjective fanfic writer at heart
>>12051936>Who do you think is better at writing, a guy who is literally hired to write, or a retard hired because he's the cheapest editor on offer?Moot point since the target audience can't accurately judge the talents of the original writer. Even an extremely dedicated dilettante who can read Japanese "fluently" only has enough knowledge to just get by with the story and maybe pick up a few tonal clues: he doesn't know enough Japanese to judge it as a piece of literature.
>>12052019The kind of delusions EOPs go through never cease to amaze me.
>>12052026It was really a rather reasonable take. People who learn a language only to play a video game or watch anime have a sufficient knowledge to experience that medium but that in and of itself doesn't make them an expert in the language and especially not an expert in the culture and literature of the language, which requires far more immersion. Are you one of those who is totally immersed in Japanese culture to the point that you can understand 80 year old Japanese history references in any given medium or understand any given fad in Tokyo from 10 years ago? Okay, well, good for you, the post wasn't about you. Otherwise, you're being sensitive for no reason, especially since the post wasn't even judgmental.
>>12047401Yeah, no, he wasn't; he tried claiming out of nowhere that he only did the last tenth or so of Mario Encyclopedia (probably because that fiasco cost some employment opportunities) since the wiki didn't cover those mistakes yet, which tempted fate because then LiThL added the remaining pages to shut him up. From the way Davisson acted, Nintendo probably blacklisted all of those people from ever directly working on another Mario product again, and none of them accepted the blame for it.
>>12052019Video game scripts aren't literature. They're slop that some hack shitted out as an excuse to move the gameplay along. This is why these video game translation discussions are always a joke, you guys are completely delusional about the supposed artistic merits of what you are describing.
>>12052038The idea that anyone who isn't a native speaker can't possibly be able to distinguish bad prose from good prose is so laughable that I can only imagine you to be a monolingual retard.I'm sorry you think cultural references are some insurmountable hurdle because you took 2 classes of Japanese in college and gave up in frustration after encountering kanji, but please don't think your idiocy applies to anyone but yourself.
>>12052067I didn't say that anybody "cannot possibly be able to distinguish good prose from bad prose" you disingenous jew. I didn't even say that they couldn't read it faithfully. I said they are not an expert in the language and you took it personally like people in these threads always do. Being able to read a sentence and determining it is well written and makes sense is not the same as being able to tell that the author is a literal genius writer who is well versed in the literary canon of his language. The whole thread is full of examples of "literal" fan translations that are missing key pieces of tone, nuance, or some other reference that flew over the translator's head. Anyway, no, never studied Japanese, but I am not monolingual.
>>12052106Because your point is retarded. Literary merit of a work is self-evident if you get past the bare minimum level of comprehension, it's not some deeply esoteric concept that requires decades of study.
literally, changes in tone, personality, censorship etc... is a crime against humanity and should be punished with the death penalty
>>12052046What was wrong with it?
>>12051928All they needed to do was to remove the injected Tolkein references for better continuity with the handheld'vanias, but the PSP version was made when the industry was becoming hyperconscious of online voiceacting memes. It is objectively worse than the original as a translation if you compare it directly. What I don't get is the PSP Rondo of Blood translation being spot-on (outside of badly-emulated audio desyncs) and then the Richter/Dracula scene in the 3D/SotN portion is just as completely made up as "what is a man."I appreciate the work put into the fanmade Gemini version, but I'm not really the biggest fan of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
>>12052046https://www.mariowiki.com/Dark_Horse_Books#Controversy>Nintendo gets the bright idea to outsource translation of some major IP books to Dark Horse (something they are not particularly known for)>most fans overlook red flags in Zelda books because timeline>Mario book comes out and wikifags immediately notice and fraudcheck it as a copypaste disaster that broke sense and licensing (srsly they could've made a legal case if they wanted)>Zack Davisson (translator with social presence) got pissy about it but it's soon clear he had no leg to stand on>also a Sonic encyclopedia came out later by "localizer" Ian Flynn and Dark Horse mysteriously remembered to credit wikis, so some people wised up. He was even asked about it in his New Year's Eve podcast and his cohost nervously stuttered up a storm reading the question (he gave an evasive "dunno what you're talking about" answer)Nintendo later used the Mario portal website to basically undo the damage and wash their hands clean.
>>12052601meant for >>12052397Adding that the disclaimer seen there is covering his ass because the last Sonic writers who admitted to browsing wikis (his predecessors) got fired.
>>12052601wtf. Why is Ian Flynn involved? This goes beyond "he doesn't know Japanese" territory and straight into "no seriously who the fuck invited him?"
>>12051984meh i dont care about really minor things like this. As long as it isn't Ted Woosley's saturday morning cartoon translations. They make FF games feel really gay
>>12052986The only Final Fantasy game he worked on is FFVI (in the OP), as well as the SNES Mystic Quest spinoff and, if you count it, GB Legend III (actually a SaGa game). I cannot believe the misconception that he had anything to do with the other games still exists. People will believe anything if you know how to sell yourself.
>>12053032then I guess it doesnt matter who it is all of the official snes JRPG translations suck it seems. That shit fits for Mario RPG and Earthbound but not lord of the rings inspired fantasy, I dont want my cool and serious music and monsters mixed with 90s cartoon cringe dialogue
>>12042435False dichotomy. Only people who are bad at their jobs pretend translation is relativistic and that there aren't correct and incorrect translations.
>>12052986I've seen a videoessay use that idiot's "translation" and then they had a section where the guy workshopped some story ideas to improve the game and he deadass suggested having Cecil say "brother" would've been more powerful and profound, not realizing that it was one of the hack's fanfictions and EVERY OFFICIAL SINGLE VERSION DOES THIS.
>>12045458No it's not you liar. You can't tell me pic related are the same sentence.
>>12042872I'll disagree with that. You can't say "innate power". >物事を成し遂げることのできる力Because it's the ability to accomplish tasks and stuff. For that same reason power is also out because it's not power per say it's more ability or skill. Also "seems to" isn't the best way to get the "みたいなんだ。。。。" across. I think.
>>12053180I have not played SoA, but from your picture, it takes the general command from the original and adds details that are not present. Whether these details are accurate to what happens in the game or not, I do not know. >Very well. Halt the ship's advance and capture the girl alive.
>>12053128Most of the other early Final Fantasies (post-I/pre-VII) were translated by an in-house native Japanese speaker who probably never watched any American cartoons you're thinking of.
>>12053208>adds details that are not presentOtherwise known as making shit up. That's not befitting of an accurate translation. They also remove 主砲 multiple times. Like just removing instances where they specify it's the main cannon. They're making stuff up and removing stuff. For no reason. You can't call that accurate. That's just a lie.
>>12053180>>12053246>damn, don't want to seem like we're advocating for violence against women>what if we just have them slip some concussion shells into her ship and then kidnap her while she's unconscious?
>>12053208>not translating したまえ
>>12053267Oh that's such a cool line. He's such a bastard.
>>12042435Where does the left one come from?
>>12042435It should be kept as close to the source material as possible, but edited so that it doesn't sound stilted without changing the meaning of anything. Overtly Japanese things, like honorifics, the name order, and specific cultural references should also be kept, especially if the game has JP voice acting only.
>>12051928No. The original Symphony isn't even close to good. The damn re-translation isn't even close to good. See that sarcasm fo 皮肉. It's supposed to be irony! It's so obviously irony. How!. Oh and the opening is completely rewritten. It's terrible.
>>12053376Wrong image
>>12053335This is taken from here: https://legendsoflocalization.com/comparisons/final-fantasy-vi/#loaded-for-whatThe RPGOne translation is a relic of its time. The hacking is pretty good, but the translation tries too hard to uncensor things and as a result creates tons of mistranslations. Basically kids trying to fight The Man, as you'd expect. The GBA version that came out a few years later has it licked in almost every way except a handful of names kept from the SNES translation.
>>12053376he was being ironic, well technically he was being seriously ironic
>>12052923He's been pitching to work on other IPs for years, so it was probably someone doing him a favor since he always wanted to do a Mario thing.
>>12053180>>12053246This is not a full on rewrite, like the trannylators claimed. Sure, they took some creative liberty, but the overall intent is the same.It's not a good localisation, but this is pretty par for the course for this time period, and I would laugh at anyone suggesting this is a heavy rewrite. Have you never seen a WD game? Those are rewrites, this isn't.
>>12053758>WD gameThose are rewrites AND they are objective improvements to the dry base scripts. Reads just like any cartoon or anime you'd watch on Saturday morning during that time period, which I'd say is a feat most modern-day translator/localizer outfits couldn't even pull off.
>>12053765So what happened with Rayearth? That was an anime you could watch during that time period...
>>12042435For the record there are better AI translations than the results google give which are very mediocre.Now I know why so many people snicker when I mention I play games with AI translation, they probably think I'm getting something on this level of bad.
>>12053758I didn't even say it was a full on rewrite. I responded to the anon saying the translation was accurate. And you apparently agree with me here. Someone posted a document with the JP and EN scripts another anon responds claiming it's quite accurate. That's provably false. But apparently the problem we really should be worried about is working designs. Don't try to point out what seems to be blatant misinformation. Also you can't make-up entire sentences and claim it's just "creative liberty" and it's overall the same. In the images in question half of the words have no basis in the Japanese. They are complete fanfiction. You cannot just pretend that's water weight. And given how much is pure fiction they were ad-libbing some lines. There's no other logical reason.
>>12053816I don't know if you've seen the interview, but all of this is in response to the translators for the game claiming "Yeah. We basically sat down, I did a rough translation of the text, and then threw away the Japanese text.”I'm not saying it's a 1:1 perfect recreation of the original, I'm saying that there's more of the original than the writer would care to admit. As always, the reality is probably somewhere in the middle, they clearly did rewrite some lines in attempts to be "funny". The lines you're complaining about are close enough that I would consider them to be "accurate" for a trannylator, this is an example of one that isn't.
>All this Localization Copium and Apologia No wonder NOTHING CHANGES. EVER.
>>12053765>He thinks WD was good or same
>>12053778Not in the USA at least, not even in USA network animu blocks, only when the real late 90s you could buy dubbed tapes by Media Blasters but it wasn't like in LatAm when the show aired on syndicated TV.
>>12053384>Still no one has posted the Gemini translated one.>I still haven't reached that far in my current savefile
>>12053823>Yeah. We basically sat down, I did a rough translation of the text, and then threw away the Japanese textI've already pointed this out but there are lines where half of the words are pure fanfiction. Which is the kind of thing that would happen if you did that thing in the quote.>I would consider them to be "accurate" for a trannylatorBut I'm using human definitions. That actually matter.
>>12053831>>12053778The Saturn game got a late 98 Release in the US as "supposedly" the last official release for the console, but it was an atrocious hackjob of a localization and even worse, game got reprogrammed to be more difficult but in the wrong way.
>>12053836>But I'm using human definitions.See, I don't consider translators to be human, so I don't have a problem with this. The work is complete slop, but that's what I expect from a translator, I've never seen a J>E line where I've gone "eh, that's pretty close". They're all a mile off, so I don't have that distinction you have between "garbage" and "refuse", it all goes into the same trash can in my brain.
Imagine all the games we could have had translated if these people spent less time arguing how they're so much better than others in their field and instead spent more time doing the thing they claim they're better at.
>>12053847actually I learned Japanese exactly because of this, hoping that I'd be translating stuff. but once I got there I just stopped caring about translation and play them in Japanese instead. and also point out stupid trannylations and laugh at those still relying on them. pretty sure there are quite a few anons in the situation as me.
>>12053847I am better than other translators, and I do translate games.And then when I look back upon my previous work, I treat my past self as one of the cringelators I so despise because translation/localization skill is a moving target that never stops.
>>12053852>>12053853the duality
>>12053852I don't think I'll ever understand people who learned Japanese with the goal of translating works for other people. That's like learning how to fish so you can spend all day fishing and giving away free fish to strangers you'll never meet again.I learned Japanese to enjoy untranslated works, and the only unexpected element was how monumentally poor translation work turned out to be, so I had to go back and replay a lot of major games properly. I always knew it was bad, but I don't think you can be aware of how bad they actually are before you learn the language.
>>12042462thisbut i will take megaman 8 voice acting tier shit every day of the week it's always fuckin funny
>>12053823He was saying they summarized the scene then wrote lines based on that, not that they MXC'd that shit. So in principal the core information in the original should all still be there. Which is pretty typical of video game localizations, I would say especially if they don't have a Japanese voice track but some mofos will translate Japanese voice only games like it's not there and even the most P of EOP can't hear all the fucking names are wrong and the lines are split up all differently still.
>>12053884Thankfully not everyone is as selfish as (You) and have a drive for doing something constructive
>>12053936>selfishI'm curious, do you apply this to other skills too? Like if a guy becomes a plumber, do you get upset at him for charging you for fitting a new boiler or a new bathtub?
>>12053983Your argument is backwards. I'm not complaining about people doing a job, instead, you're the one complaining about people doing voluntary/charity work out of passion. Also I'm not "upset", I'm only trying to make you understand something you don't but it's a lost cause, I should have realized it's "can't" and not "don't.
>>12053983Non-creatives have really weird entitlement issues.
>>12053983It's this attitude that has seen the partial death of a lot of once-free stuff like you'd find on flash game sites. Nowadays you are expected to pay $5 or $10 for shit that people were making for free, just for fun, and posting to whatever site back in the days."How can you monetize that?" has been one of the most harmful questions fundamentally at odds with its own theory of "money drives work", and nowhere is this more visible than in the spheres of free games or fan work.Fan Translations are no exception, but thankfully only a few retards have actually dared to try monetizing it. You can bet, however, that in the coming decade or so, this will surely change, and for the worse.
>>12053985You're saying that if anyone learns a skill, they should use it in the way that benefits you the most. Nobody is translating out of "passion", they're translating for payment, or for e-peen. I understand your point fully, you're too lazy to do something but you feel entitled to the work of others who do the thing.>>12053989Most "fan" translators now have patreons and take commissions. The anime scene is totally dead, because they can't compete with CR simulcasts. Manga is mostly MTL'd by third worlders trying to make a few cents off being the fastest release. You're about a decade behind the times.
>>12053989No-talent no-passion who never walked Bob Dylan up on the stage is upset that spotting a dude $5 for his 300 manhour solo project might become a reality in 10 whole years from now when a mcdonalds meal will cost $30 plus tip
>>12053992>Most "fan" translators now have patreons and take commissions.Those damaging filthmongers deserve to be strung up by their tiny balls/ovaries and beaten like a piñata by savage man-eating monkeys.
>>12053457>he always wanted to do a Mario thingWhat is he, a Make-A-Wish kid? Nintendo said no to all his pitches! He had no business being within the same breathing space! What is this third-world nepo-shit?>"I have spent decades abroad immersing myself in a foreign culture and now command a mastery level of the language and its various forms of literature and entertainment.">"Cool, I'm a comic author who sabotages other people's work for a living."...Goddamn joke of an industry.
>>12042435the best translation is the one that makes the floating island beatable
>>12054220>you now remember how "the definitive transrelocalization edition" made Vargas unbeatable
>>12050157TL notes are fine for written media like books, comics or light novels, since you can read at your own pace, but are very intrusive in stuff like a TV show or game.
>>12054251quick rundown?
>>12054251Fun fact: back when I first emulated FF6 back in the early 00's I had no idea how to do Blitz. I wouldn't even find out until my 2nd or 3rd playthrough.Vargas is beatable without using blitz but you have to have the fastest speed on and it takes a lot of luck. Nobody ever believes me when I say that but I did it
>>12054257Zoomanon came to /vr/ crying that Vargas is impossible to beat and grinding FFVI sucks blablabla, then it was quickly discovered anon used a text hack and the dummy self-aggrandizing author who got off at telling kids how much Woolsey sucks and to play his hack (you know the schtick) accidentally deleted the instructions on how to pummel/blitz which first-time players absolutely needed.
>>12042435I don't like JRPGs I've tried to appreciate them and have a fair number but they suck and iI include final fantasy in that. There are enough non jap games to go through that I really don't give a fuck about the stuff that was not offically localised and sold outside Japan. This shit only matters to people into systems with small libraries like 16/32 bit cartridge consoles where a big chunk of the library is jap only e.g shit like the N64. Stuff like PC, PS1/PS2 and other has such a vast range of tens of thousands of games there is really no reason to look at jap stuff at all. I don't really get the whole Japanese game collecting thing for non Japs, I guess it's a semi-weeb thing but each to their own likes
>>12053884Some use it as just a way to get better at japanese.
>>12054367You don't get better at Japanese by translating.
>>12054398You end up doing a good amount of reading/listening/thinking about what's being said.
>>12054410You can do that much more effectively by just consuming.
>>12054425Well I disagree.
>>12054427I get where you're coming from, translating something does make you consider each word more, but the real issue is you just consuming on auto pilot and skipping over words you don't know. You can pay attention without the pointless translation step.
>>12054438I mostly took issue with you saying you DON'T get better by translating. I'm not talking about efficiency compared to anything else here.
>>12050157you're proving his point anon, you are unable to conceptualize how languages and the differences between them work
>>12054447Translating does not make you better at the source language. Translating Japanese to English makes you better at translating Japanese to English. You speed up the pathways between linguistic concepts by practicing translation, but you are hard limited by your fundamental understanding of each side of the language pair.Learners should never be encouraged to translate for practice. The whole goal for early learners should be to read/listen without interfacing with any part of the brain that attempts to "translate" since this "translation layer" consumes immense amounts of mental energy even for people who have a thorough understanding of the language pair.This is why people often have the most trouble listening early on, because one unknown element immediately grinds their brain to a halt and makes them miss the next swath of surrounding information they might have understood. This already happens in one's native language if you're surprised at an unknown, so what chance does a green learner of [language] stand?If any language class has students translating as part of the curriculum, then that language class is a failure and is encouraging harmful habits.Translating must be approached as a discipline entirely separate from language, never as a component of the language.
>>12054464One point I meant to make in this post is that:>your average fan translator and even professional vidya/manga/anime translators cannot even sit through an episode of an easy anime like Pretty Cure, Prism Paradise, Princession Orchestra, Dragonball, etc. because they do not have the fundamental skill in Japanese to engage with even the simplest native mediaTherefore, the majority of these people are automatically not qualified to engage in the discipline of translation.I have maintained forever that qualifications such as JLPT certificates are meaningless because they do not measure anything of worth, only that you passed an easy test. When looking for a translator, do not ask for certs or degrees - ask them about the last light novels they've read in the past month, the shows they've watched, audiobooks they've listened to, radio dramas, and so forth, in raw Japanese. This will always be a clearer indicator of whether someone is actually skilled enough to start translating.
>>12054464I disagree. Simply the act of taking in the language during the process of translation will make you better at the language. It's no different from reading on it's own since you have to read to translate.
>>12053929>the lines are split up all differently stillThis is normal to do sometimes. Reversing the order of some sentences or taking the end of a sentence and pitting it first. This is in part Japanese having more freedom than English when it comes some things.
>>12053246>Otherwise known as making shit up.Like I said, I have not played the game, so I don't know if the made-up parts of the English dialogue are actually using context from the game (i.e. something that visually happened or is addressed before/after) or straight bullshit like Working Designs would usually do.>You can't call that accurate.I'm not the other Anon, I was simply adding my two cents.>>12053267Is that speficic nuance that important for this moment/character? He's giving an authoritative command but he's not being rude about it. Would something like "Bring that ship to a halt. I want the girl taken alive." work better here?
>>12055152Yeah it's a softer command so saying I want or I need is a bit better than just telling the men what to do.
>>12046514He don't want it literally, which is why there is the editor, that is supposed to try to extract the intended meaning instead of just inventing things or adding internet memes to the game.
>>12042658HhaHAHA GOOOOODEEEEEEM
>>12054520>>12054464I think you're both right but you're not talking about the same thing.When you're just starting to learn a language, you shouldn't be translating. That is indeed a bad habit that will prevent you from truly understanding the differences between the 2 languages.But people making video game fan translations shouldn't be entry level learners. Once you already have some knowledge of the language and are able to understand/speak it without ressorting to translating in your head, then the act of translating WILL improve your understanding of the language(s), for instance it will force you to understand how the differences you've been using all along really work, or also create a habit of finding a different way to say the same thing.tl;dr: entry level learner: translating=bad. Fluent speaker: translating=good.
>>12042435A good translation requires a bit of adapting.
>>12046548Shut the fuck up and eat your hamburger already.
>>12056718HD Mod
>>12056345Yeah have you ever seen 一石二鳥? I still haven't come up with something for this.
