Why exactly did FF7 need the chibi overworld models?If it could render high poly models in 3D battle environments I figure it should be able to render them over the JPG backgrounds
>>12057841It's fun seeing them do little animations in the overworld from flexing to jumping around. The world being scaled perfectly for them is nice too. The variety in models is worthy of praise too and creates a lively world with tons of personality.Having separate "cool" models is a good thing.
>>12057841they needed scenes where there were 10+ characters on screen at the same time, cant do that with the battle models.delete your thread now please
Overworld is 30 fps.Battles are 15 fps with the menu cutting off 1/3rd of the screen so they had more power to render more detail.
oh what could have been....
>>12057841FF had a tradition of having chibi in-game characters so they wanted to maintain that to some extent for FFVII. For example FF 6 could have had taller proportion characters like Chrono Trigger but that wasn't FF's style. However there was such a negative reception to the way they did chibi in FFVII so they dropped it completely for FFVIII. They briefly returned to it with FF9 though.
>>12057846I like the chibi models, they remind me of the classic 2D FF sprite proportions, I just thought it was weird since they were going all in on graphics at the time and the models you see for most of the game were the chibis which I figure most people would find goofy, they went for full scale models with FF8 anyway so I'm wondering what could've caused them to not do that for 7>>12057849PS1 could handle that since it had battles with 7+ high poly models + a 3D background, if necessary you could make lower poly but non-chibi models of the characters for such an occasion
>>12057841chibi models allowed the expressive movements to have more impact
>>12057868FFVII would be great were it not for the crossdressing and male on male rape
>>12057885crossdressing would be fine if it weren't for current year making everything as gay as possible instead of comical
It looks 'fine'
Why do games get better looking as the system becomes older and better understood? why didn't they release Vagrant Story in 1994?
>>12057841>Say you don't understand aesthetics without saying you don't understand aesthetics.
>>12057870>However there was such a negative reception to the way they did chibi in FFVIII always liked it a lot. At least for the world of FFVII. The entire backgrounds were also made specifically for chibi characters, so when you add a mod that replaces it with realistic anatomy, it just doesn't work.
>Yoshinori Kitase: This was a response to issues with memory limits and rendering speeds.>In exploration areas, such as the scenes in cities, we needed to have lots of characters on screen at once and the camera does not often move close up to them, so we had to keep the main character models down to under 400 polygons each.>On the other hand, the number of characters that appear in battle scenes is more limited and there are many times when the camera does a close-up of their faces as part of the presentation for the moves they do, so we were able to use 1000 polygons each here. >Accordingly, we created character designs that were optimised for the number of polygons available in each type of scene. Of course FFVII is one of those games that was so long ago with so many people involved that you get multiple different answers to the same question.>Kitase: I think Mr. Sakaguchi wanted to follow the tradition of the pixel graphics, and to show the characters’ expressions on the field screens, so he paid attention to the size of the heads. In battles you can zoom in the camera, but since the field screens are a single background image, you can’t do that. As a result, the proportion of the characters are different in battle and on the field. But when we looked at it after “FFVII” was released, we thought “people are probably going to feel something is off with the difference in proportion” and so in “FFVIII” we the proportions on the field and battle scenes the same.
>>12057841Render distance. Due to the resolution of CRT's at the time the high detail in overworld models would have been utterly lost at a distance. The muddy colors would have been to hard to see compared to the background. Having more vibrant and blocky silhouettes helps characters be seen.>>12057849As much as this makes logical sense the hardware would allow higher poly models. My conspiracy theory was that at one point in development they wanted to render the backgrounds in real time.>>12057868So does isometric pixel art win out over 3d in your opinion?>>12058096>Why do games get better looking as the system becomes older and better understood? Developers gain efficiency tricks and learn more about the hardware. That and experience.Compare FF9 to 7 in the graphical department. Both run on the same hardware.
>>12058534I know they have actual 3D backgrounds as well but the battles have abysmal frame rates. So I mean if it maxes out at 9 characters on screen that's 9000 polygons at 15fps while say 12 characters on the field is 4800 polygons at 30fps which pretty closely works out, the battle backgrounds aren't that elaborate so I can imagine they don't use a ton of polygons necessarily.
>>12057885Stop forcing this.
The very essence of this game continues to filter this board.
>>12057874>PS1 could handle that since it had battles with 7+ high poly models + a 3D background,The battle scenes on PS1 FF7 ran at like 15fps.
Besides what's already been stated, the battle models also only use vertex coloring, while the lower poly chibi models use more dynamic gouraud shading.
>>120585853D games at the time ran at garbage framerates in general. 3D graphics on console have always been one generation ahead of what the system should've been using.
>>12058562Every single encounter in FF7-9's encounter table was tested to make sure it ran at an acceptable framerate, and when it didn't, character battle models and monsters got their polycount cut until the frame rate was acceptable. This is why certain summons force encounters to chug along at abysmal framerates, the games were already at their max just displaying the characters and monsters and simple animations, this is also why certain summons make the characters or background disappear and replace them with other objects, because there were just to many polygons.The sprites you see outside of battle are explicitly designed to be low detail for a number of reasons, the main one being you're usually extremely far from the camera in FF7 compared to 8 and 9, so it's usually not a big deal. There are areas in FF7 where Cloud is so far from the camera that at 320x240 he's just a wiggling 9 pixel commodore 64 character. Of course, they fucked this up by letting you walk right up to the camera and see how ugly it is in the very first area, but most of the games environments aren't like this.
>>12057870>However there was such a negative reception to the way they did chibi in FFVII so they dropped it completely for FFVIIISource? Literally never heard anybody complain about this except zoomers many years later.
>>12058698>an acceptable framerateYes a silky smooth 15fps that feels fine because it's decoupled from the menu but would be complete ass when you have direct character control.
>He was filtered by smooth sailing 15 frames per second
>>12058714That's a good point, and yet character movement in 3D Final Fantasy games is this floaty mess of characters flailing their limbs on an invisible treadmill, and it stays that way all the way until FF13.I applaud them for having the courage to listen to criticism and get rid of the chibi stuff even though FF7 sold a gazillion copies even with it. FF8 is the most kino game in the whole series because of how artistically consistent it is. And the OST. And the romance.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNefNLOHVYkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9IkmZLFkFwCloud & Aeris/Tidus & Yuna don't even come close.
>>12058698>this is also why certain summons make the characters or background disappear and replace them with other objects, because there were just to many polygons.Characters disappearing during summons has always been a thing all the way from FF3 until 9, idiot. As for the backgrounds, the SNES games definitely played around with darkening them or swapping the palettes for dramatic effect, being able to change them entirely for more dramatic animations was an upgrade, not a limitation.
>>12058731They do it for the same reason on the SNES that they did it on the PS1. The hardware can not update an unlimited amount of pixels per frame, even the Genesis with twice the processing power couldn't. The more stuff you remove from the screen the more new stuff you can draw. So if you know you're going to maintain your target framerate with Monsters + Characters on screen, it's way safer to remove something before you draw another giant monster character on screen than it is to check every summon against every battle.Compare Phantasy Star 2 on Genesis, which regularly and consistently exceeds the fill rate of hardware causing graphical glitches, most notably during boss fights. You end up with 1/4 of the screen filled with random garbled parts of VRAM for a split second. That wasn't acceptable for Square and Final Fantasy, so you get the characteristic "fade out" effect before summons that people came to view as a stylistic choice.
They’re cute.
>>12057841ease of animationreadability at all distancesavoiding "you're the best looking guy here" issues
>>12057841Chibi models are kino. I cant stand how all graphics are all hyper realism now
>>12057841It's charming.
>>12057841>Why exactly did FF7 need the chibi overworld models?Because FF1-6.
>>12057841>boomer snoys thought "this is fine"Never played FF7 because of those pathetic malformed abomination models
>>12058710>chibi in FFVII>Literally never heard anybody complainYou can get used to the chibis, but any moment of clarity and you can see how ridiculous and a detriment they were>major character death>fmv cutscene models>cut to retarded low budget chibis acting out a serious moment>cut to combat and battle modelsLess discrepancy and distraction, the betterEven FFX had this problem with basically 3 versions of characters
>>12058698good breakdown, all these other anons are retards trying to shit talk a PS1 game from over 20 years ago
>>12057846fpbp
>>12059338>I never played a gamewhy would anyone care? Do you think youre upsetting people by saying the games bad its FF7 its in the conversation for the greatest rpg and greatest game of all time. you not playing it reflects onto you not to the game the game does not know who the fuck you are.
It astounds me and depresses me to see how so many people are unable of abstraction. Probably the same type that asks for live action remakes of classic Disney movies
>>12059585I'm a 5 and still like the chibbies though
>>12057841It's simply a tradition, how most JRPG have done it since the late 80's. Think about how the majority of the camera angles in the game are high up looking down at small characters, again, same as 8 and 16 bit JRPGs. High res models in this situation would NOT make the game more readable. FF8 uses the same models as in battle but the camera angles are usually much closer to the characters and more numerous.
>>12057841There's a concept in gameplay development that I believe developers have or used to have that I struggle to get across. In sprawling games like RPGs where there's at least two modes (e.g. in FF7 there's the active time battles, and there's the exploration), the developer chooses where the "main" meat of the gameplay is. In FF7's case, the gameplay is the battles. So a lot of the in-game presentation effort is poured into the battles.That's why they used chibi models in the overworld. That, and it was a way to linking 7 with previous games.
>>12057868thank fuck it didnt
>>12059224they fucked up jesse. she's supposed to look like a cute tomboy, not a depressed effeminate schoolboy.
>>12057868Unironically would have preferred this.Playing through the FF games rn. The SNES titles are all amazing and yet the first two PS1 titles are hot garbage. The technology wasn’t ready yet
>>12060119filtered.
>>12060183Take your nostalgia goggles shit looks like ass bruh. They didn’t even know how make a bitch in a dress lol it looked like a damn Russian doll. Kings field looks way better and it came out 3 years before FFVII. American teenagers were deluded into thinking FFVII was impressive. It wasn’t
>>12060281>Kings field looks way betterThis is advanced trolling
>>12057868This looks really boring.
>>12057868This looks really fun. That's also likely a straightened out version of this photo, wonder where it's from
hmm
>>12061073Interesting how it's the same Locke look alike from the 3D tech demo. I wonder if they were considering having a 2D overworld with only the battles being 3D. Kind of like Wild Arms.
>>12061085Looks like they were going for a "everything is 3D ugly" style before using the painted backgrounds.
>>12061090>painted backgrounds
>>12061092>ACKCHULLY
I do wonder how the game would've looked had it came out a few years later like legend of dragoon
for me it wouldnt have worked UNLESS the graphics were primitive.
>>12061150>I do wonder how the game would've looked had it came out a few years later like legend of dragoonMods give a decent idea of what that might've been like. Picrel with FMV-like character models instead of chibi.
>>12060331Like FF6? Imagine my surprise.
>>12061168Shut up, you stupid hipster bitch.
>>12060281You're 23.
>>12061336God I wish I was 23 again
>>12059338>Never played FF7 because of those pathetic malformed abomination modelsYou never played FFVII because you're a braindead shithead nigger zoomer with trash taste
>>12061359Excellent and truthful post
You people are missing the fundamental aspect that makes the chibi field models of FF7 stand the test of time and that's that they are EXPRESSIVE. For low poly, low resolution models, they are used to great effect to convey a lot of story and dialogue over the course of three discs. It's something which is lost in mods that feel the need to 'upgrade' them to full scale character models. By contrast, I always thought the full size Squall character model on the world map of FF8 looked silly.
>>12060281>Kings field looks way better
>>12061451This shit is only funny to kids born in 2005.
>>12061448>chibi field models of FF7 stand the test of time and that's that they are EXPRESSIVECan you see expressions on their face? A smirk, a furrowed brow?Well what's the use when JRPG fans can't read faces lol
>>12061518You don't need to, it's all body language.
>>12061090lmao retardchama
Played through FF7 for the first time recently and the chibi models really grew on me?Were there better looking early 3-D chibi RPGs?
>>12057841I think it was originally a n64 game. and it definitely can't handle rendering in high poly when they were stuck using vertex colors
This board has a real aversion to SD/chibi characters, some of you won't even touch the original Final Fantasy games because you're allergic to anything being remotely cartoony (even though you all play Mario).
>>12058584/thread
Could have been a holdover style from the N64 game or they were going to port it to the N64 at one stage.
>>12061992Wild Arms had adorable chibi models in 1996 but you only see them in battle.
>>12062543It's a holdover from the very first game lol
The Chibi style was common in Squares 16-bit games, (as they didn't really have any other choice), it just seems like something that tey wanted to keep consistent with the 16-bit games? I remember Square making a big deal when they decided to drop the chibi art style entirely from FFVIII. https://youtu.be/fBPLaAtq26E
>>12057841The 4k 60fps mod does chibi right.
>>12057841There is nothing wrong with chibi but those proportions they used were bizarre.
>>12057841>If it could render high poly models in 3D battle environments I figure it should be able to render them over the JPG backgroundswell you figured fucking wronghow do you always make such shit threads opie?
>>12063257Can you post an image of it and how do I acquire a 4k 60fps mod for the game?
>>12063428Put the disc in a PS5 and voila
>>12063548You fucking retard, this is /vr/
Dont care.They are charming and Tifa still looks hot like this.
>>12057841the real mistake was the wine bottle arms
