>>12063963
Quake music was great but it was removed from the modern release for some reason.

>>12063963
The fantasy setting wasn't as appealing
None of the weapons and enemies were as iconic as the ones in Doom

because doom and quake were big technological breakthroughs and multiplayer social contagions and heretic was just a good game

>>12063984
This
Raven software always just made solid games based on id's tech, but never made anything groundbreaking

>>12063969
>it was removed from the modern release for some reason
It originally played directly from the CD (probably just to save install space because HDDs didn't have shitloads of space in 96) and they just didn't bother fixing the Steam/GOG release so it plays music from the install before the 2021 version. It's fine now

levels are meh
gameplay is designed around powerups
most weapons feel underpowered

Shitty weapons, shitty monsters, drab monotonous levels, uninteresting plot, and the new mechanic it offers over Doom - the Tome of Power - makes the game less fun instead of more fun. It would have been a better game if you had the tome of power weapons all the time. (It also has flying which is incredibly inconsequential and basically only used to reach secrets.)

More importantly, Doom was perhaps the most technologically revolutionary game of all time. When it came out it was in a different league from everything else that existed at the time. It redefined what video games can do. Heretic was just reusing the already familiar Doom engine, of course it didn't get the same hype.

Hexen was better and more interesting than just a Doom clone in a fantasy setting

>>12063997
>gameplay is designed around powerups
>most weapons feel underpowered
I thought the opposite. There is no big enough reason to use the items most of the time. Early expansion levels that strip you of ammunition are better in that regard.

>>12064016
>When it came out it was in a different league from everything else that existed at the time
Ridge Racer was in the arcades months prior and Daytona USA had its first location tests before Doom came out. You could buy a 3DO at retail before Doom launched. PC gaming was filled to the brim with first-person space shooters like Star Wars X-Wing and Wing Commander and Frontier Elite II.
Doom wasn't revolutionary. It wasn't the best looking game of its time and it didn't demonstrate tech that was a decade ahead of everybody else.
What Doom did different from everything else is that it ran pretty damn fast on the common office PCs of the time, when most other PC FPS games could barely reach double digit framerates and the fancy fully 3D single-game arcade machines cost as much as a new Corvette.

>Guns
It didn't really have guns, and fantasy was seen as "Gay ass nerd shit" back then, where as Doom was cool, edgy, gritty and sci-fi.

>>12064047
Doom is in a different league from racing games and space shooters.

>when most other PC FPS games
What other PC FPS games??

>>12064056
There was Wolfenstein which was way more primitive

>>12064060
Wolf3D was the "It runs fast on my machine" fps, Doom was a step up but required some decent hardware if you didn't want to shrink the screen down to a postage stamp. Where Doom excelled was it's pickup and play, get into the action nature, there isn't much learning curve, just move around, shoot shit, collect items, open doors and throw switches.

because its virgin fantasy geek shit for limp dicked poindexters that get shoved in lockers and sexually humiliated by the football team

>>12064067
What was the first "thinking man" FPS? Ssytem Shock?

>>12064060
>>12064067
Doom was in a different league from Wolf 3d, you literally weren't there if you somehow think otherwise

>>12063994
Digital music formats like mp3 and ogg didn't exist back when Quake was new but source ports of Quake (including Quake engine games like Hexen 2) can play them so all it required them to do was rip the music into a digital format in decently high enough quality without much loss to work. It was just laziness that they didn't do that for the Steam/Gog releases since source ports could do it around 2010.

>>12064070
but enough about John Romero

>>12064071
shadowcaster

>>12064071
William Shatners Tek War

>>12064192
Kek
That came after System Shock

>>12064070
Heretic rapes Doom and stretches your simping little boypussi

Cry about it fag

>>12064028
>Doom clone in a fantasy setting
This statement is so NPC it might as well be AI

Doom had BFG
Heretic had a shitty mace

>>12063963
Raven had aesthetics and ideas. But the execution was mostly poor. To be honest, their best games are the Jedi Academy saga, including the only good Heretic/Hexen game, Heretic 2.

>>12064262
Soldier of Fortune games were pretty good too
>not liking Hexen
Filtered

Hexen 2 was good aside from class balancing issues. The passives for the Assassin for example were dogshit, enemies didn't forget about you when you went into stealth, couldn't move in stealth, the backstabbing with the katar didn't work very well and was just "circle strafe around enemy while spamming attack and hope it works." And this was the case for quite a few class passives. Could have used more work. If it gets a remaster I hope they do some minor tweaks to that like they did with some of Hexen 1's classes.

>>12063963
Heretic was still pretty popular in its time.

>>12063984
Pretty much.

>>12064272
You either love or hate Hexen, there seems little inbetween. I think most people don't jive that much with the strange half-breed that it ends up being.

>>12064298
The biggest problem with Hexen is definitely the weapon limit and low enemy variety so the combat gets repetitive quickly

If Heretic actually was fantasy Doom that would have been awesome. The shareware episode is great but the full game is undercooked. I think it was a mistake to buff the health of upgraded enemies like projectile gargoyles which means you no longer have any popcorn enemies and it all feels like a slog.

>>12064310
Then you have the 2 extra episodes which are way harder than the base game

>>12064310
>projectile gargoyles
Wish they at least made them a different color than the regular ones.

I'm pretty sure the iron linches are pre-rendered 3D models, but what about the other enemies? They look like traditional pixel art to me. The Maulotaurs are particularly impressive.

>>12065018
I'm pretty sure that most if not all of the enemies in Heretic and Hexen are mostly pre-rendered 3D, Raven got in on that fairly early on when it came to first person shooters, they were using that for CyClones, and might even have done so for Shadowcaster.

I liked it a lot as a 40 year old, I was hooked, it was like D&D and Doom mixed up. Looking back I see how tech limits and some choices probably went wrong, music wasn't great. Yeah you never felt like OP or just flat strong, even in Doom1 you always felt like a badass, just thrown at odds that suck.

It should be better and as a kid who got this and it hit his nerd buttons, it wasn't as good as it should be. I think even back then they could have done better. But they tried adding stuff and didn't want just a doom but wizards, frankly that would have been the hit.

I haven't got the new ones.

>>12065054
>you never felt like OP or just flat strong
Tome of Power and Ring of Invincibility make you quite the badass. If we speak of weapons, phoenix rod is pretty OP when you have the ammo for it.
>music wasn't great
Agreed, but it has some bangers. I really like The Cathedral, Guard Tower, The Crater, Lava Pits, and Citadel.

>>12063963

It was not a stellar game - for me it's a 4/10.
The box artwork is outstanding though.

>>12064016

Doom was the most amazing thing - when I saw it running for the first time I nearly fell out of my seat.
An all around masterpiece.

>>12064047
>Ridge Racer was in the arcades months prior and Daytona USA had its first location tests before Doom came out.
Those are racers. Completely different kinds of games.

>You could buy a 3DO at retail before Doom launched
It came out like two months ahead of Doom, was RETARDEDLY expensive ($700 in 1993 is over $1500 today), and had almost no games on launch, and would only start getting some mostly shit games in 1994.

>PC gaming was filled to the brim with first-person space shooters like Star Wars X-Wing and Wing Commander and Frontier Elite II.
Which get away with a lot by rendering most of its screen as solid black a lot of the time, and which are variously arcade-ified flightsims for what it matters. Quite a different world and interacted with very differently.

>Doom wasn't revolutionary. It wasn't the best looking game of its time and it didn't demonstrate tech that was a decade ahead of everybody else.
It looked and ran better than any other first person shooting game, and had more depth of gameplay than most of them. It doesn't have the same kind of depth and complexity of Ultima Underworld or System Shock, but it also wasn't aiming to be those kinds of games either.

Doom has realtime 3D environments with height and volume, with action shooting gameplay that can go really fast, far faster than UU or SS did.

>>12064031
I think the biggest problem was the situations such as 'kill like 20 imps / mummies but there's no rush'. You can't justify using the better ammo or powerups so you just walk around a bit and pew-pew-pew-pew-pew-pew-pew endlessly, it's boring.

>>12066137
Thats because you were supposed to manage the waves of enemies instead of just one shotting them in groups, as concepts like circle strafing weren't as big as they'd later become. The crusher in E4M1 is basically there to help you conserve ammo by stunlocking enemies as they pass under it.
>>12065054 kinda tells the tale, people who wanted pure power fantasy felt underpowered while simultaneously not utilizing the inventory system outside of just throwing on a tome of power to lifesteal with the gauntlets instead of planning encounters around them. People are allowed to have their opinions and can like what they want, but I feel like a lot of why it doesn't stick with people is because they basically play it wrong. And I've even indirectly contributed to that personally.

>>12066137
yeah its got some odd and uncreative design choices
>lots of samey feeling weapons
>starter wand and dragon claw are boring
>"rocket wand"
>too many lazy symmetrical levels
Its still a charming ass little game though
>gothic castle vibe is awesome
>great texture work
>The bath tile levels are fucking awesome

Not shilling here, but the remaster just got a big update and the new soundtrack genuinely fucking slaps

Heretic's level design mogs Doom and Doom II.

>>12067053
too many monster closets

>>12067053
It really doesn't.

>>12063963
I would just much rather play Hexen, which has a more distinct feel of its own.

>>12067076
Hexen's aesthetic is unmatched but the combat utterly pales compared to Heretic.

>>12067053
there are definitely some highlights but ehhhh overall its kind of samey

>>12063978
>>12063978
>>12064070
>>12064236
>DOOM: Dark Ages has entered the chat

>>12067472
That's a modern game

>>12067472
>Today's world doesn't have much of a divide between scifi and fantasy, or that much of a stigma against fantasy like people did in the retro era
Wow
Whoa

>Doom but fantasy

just finished playing it for the first time and it was fun