Yep, only console warriors liked it (a lot of them were former segafags who took refuge in the Xbox after the Dreamcast failed).

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>>12094215
>immediately starts consolewarring because he can't tell OP is talking about a specific level
Lol you haven't even fucking played Halo, mate.

>>12094192
it's very reminiscent of serious sam

CE's multiplayer spawns are horrendous. It will spawn you right in front of enemies

>>12094192
I haven’t played Halo 1 in a long time, but I remember having to learn a bunch of grenade jumps and short cuts for this level to get an achievement in the crappy remake years ago

>>12094238
https://www.halospawns.com/

>>12094230
the library isn't that hard if you run and gun. It's just boring and way too long.

>>12094192
endless onslaught combat level. love it

>>12094238
good thing you spawn with the best weapon in the game

>>12094256
I wouldn't say best, it just gives you a good chance in any situation. Shotguns beat it up close, rockets beat it at mid range, and sniper beats it at long range.

>>12094256
The plasma rifle ?

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>>12094248
>run and gun
Too bad in Halo you only get to walk and gun

>>12094192
Why does it suck? This was the most fun level in the game. Especially in multiplayer.

>>12094192
Thanks for filling in the daily "Halo Sucks" thread quota.

>>12094292
Wait until you hear about Batman&Robin on Megadrive, a notorious walk OR gun.

Why are cubies making halo hate threads now

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It became immensely more tolerable when I found out the entire thing is a spiral that circles around the intro and ending shaft as a landmark but they had to stick walls around everything to get it to run worth fuck, so you can at least mentally picture where the fuck you're going.

>>12094492
i remember reading from someone who had been told by one of the architects commissioned for oni that the library was supposed to play out in inverse and be awesome but it had to be scrapped for closed off elongated hallways because of bsp leaks

>>12094192
It's not that bad

>>12094253
This, never understood why this level is so hated.

>>12094431
>deflecting
conceded

>>12094492
has nobody made a mod that tries to restore the orignal level?

>>12094590
nothing indev library has actually surfaced i think

So "this fucking sucks" is the new spamphrase to filter?

Why can't zoomers approximate even the faintest idea of a quality thread?

>Halo
>Having fun
>Then the Flood comes in
>Game completely stops being fun

It's crazy how much an enemy type just seems to be so antithetical to the gameplay. The Flood are just so boring and uninteresting to fight against. It's even funnier since they are so integral to the story of Halo that you can't get rid of them, so you're just stuck with them.

This is unironically the biggest issue with EVERY Halo game. The flood are just a massive drag, they are not ever as fun to engage with as the Covenant. And every game always suffers the minute they are reintroduced.

>>12094238
CE's multiplayer was rushed together last minute (the game was only going to be single player) and according to Hardy LeBel, the main designer for it, the multiplayer was just supposed to be a party shooter/couch multiplayer game more akin to Mario Party than something competitive like you'd see with other FPS titles. It wasn't until Max Hoberman took over for H2's multiplayer where Halo MP became more competitive focused so spawn balancing was improved after they saw the popularity of CE's multiplayer.

>>12096226
the spawn system is fine, you're just not supposed to play the infantry maps in 4v4 packed like sardines in a can that's the matchmaking default in mcc

>>12096176
couldnt agree more. shit is so stupid and everyone acted like it was such a "twist". wow i have to spend the rest of the game shooting infinitely spawning popcorn enemies awesome. oh look a shotgunner guess ill be reloading this legendary save

>>12096226
>CE's multiplayer was rushed together last minute (the game was only going to be single player)
lmao no. The whole reason the game has multi-seat vehicles is because it was supposed to be a large scale asymmetric multiplayer game but that got dropped late in development two games in a row. H2 MP also released more or less fucking terrible in most ways besides social matchmaking and some maps.

>>12094192
only because it's really easy and repetitive, even on legendary. Only that one part at the end is difficult, because it doesn't tell you they infinitely respawn so you should just run through instead of fighting.

Anybody else enjoy Halo without giving a fuck about the story? I've played every campaign (except Infinite), most of them many times over, and I don't think I've ever once made it through a cutscene or had any clue what's going on big picturewise.

Most competitive CE players didn't and still don't swap off the magnum unless it's for the rocket launcher.

>>12096351
Sometimes you just wanna shoot things.

>>12096474
lol, no. The Sniper Rifle is the meta in CE deathmatch.

On legendary, flood are so easy compared to covenant. The little balloons really should deal more damage. It's like they planned to have more of them but then couldn't with the hardware and didn't get around to making them an actual threat

>>12094576
>autism

>>12096351
Everything after the 1st game is just a blur story-wise for me and completely inconsequential so yeah me too.

>>12094292
>if it doesn't have a sprint button it's walking
zoom zoom

>>12096330
>H2 MP also released more or less fucking terrible in most ways besides social matchmaking and some maps.
did it? i played countless hours of halo 2 online starting at release day. it was a long time ago so i dont actually remember the condition at launch. is this hyperbole or was it actually that bad? i do remember being able to launch yourself with the sword after switching weapons from the sniper rifle scope. that was patched but things like double shot, bxr, and superbounces were not.

>>12096351
There's not really a detailed plot until 343 starts making the games into some weird fanfic. You probably know the plot already it's just that simple. You aren't missing anything. The lore that was popular was the setting. The idea of ring worlds was pretty unknown and the alien designs were unique. The concepts in halo are much more interesting than anything that's actually done with them.

>>12094238
Ce multiplayer was a last minute addition only like 5% of players ever got to experience with more than 3 people before the pc port
Im surprised they managed to make a decent amount of maps to be frank

>>12097085
Everyone experienced system link back in the CE days at least a couple times.

honestly everything after the silent cartographer fucking sucks, there's that fun little part with the tank but then it's just endless repeating corridors, the facility where you find the flood goes on for far too long, and then you have to backtrack through the fucking endless corridor level again except this time there's no fun tank part
honestly the library doesn't suck that much compared to the corridor level, especially on the return run with flood, covenant and drones all conveniently ignoring each other and attacking only you
halo 2 is so much fucking better

>>12094192
I know this level sucks ass but I always enjoy it anyway because the Flood are so fun to fight. They really downgraded them in 2 and 3, especially since you can headshot them.

>>12096176
Very big disagree, but I completely understand why you would feel this way.

>>12097127
>everything after the silent cartographer fucking sucks
https://youtu.be/xSHYFQ_LUIk The 2nd best segment out of the whole Halo franchise takes place at the end of the game.

>>12097184
the warthog run is a cool first-time experience but gameplay-wise it still fucking sucks, you're just driving in a straight line (with ramps at least) and hoping the warthog physics don't fuck you

>>12097219
>the warthog run is a cool first-time experience but gameplay-wise it still fucking sucks
Nah gameplay wise it's cool as fuck. Sounds like your issue is replaying the game until you dislike it.

>>12097219
This is exactly how I feel, and retards like >>12097226 praising a 5 minute offroading simulator as some pivotal part of the Halo experience is always baffling to me. The entirety of The Maw sucks frankly.

>>12097226
i actually only played the game to completion for the first time a few days ago so it's fresh in my memory, it looks/feels cool initially but it's just a case of going from a to b where the only challenge is awkward controls and typical early 00s physics
>>12097297
i suppose it's a cool little spectacle but the whole 'escape in a jeep before shit explodes' thing has been done to death, hell mgs had it long before halo and i'm sure other games have too

>>12096929
The sniper isn't even on half the CE maps used in 2v2 lmao (the only comp mode that's been played for the past 15 years).
Even when it is in - it's not as big of an advantage as it is in the following games, seeing as the CE magnum is a 2-tap headshot kill with INSANE aim assist.

>>12094576
>no i must win my internet argument and can't laugh at a joke
Take a break from the internet pal, it's bad for your brain.

>>12097219
>and hoping the warthog physics don't fuck you
skill issue

>>12097085
CE had a thriving online multiplayer scene before the pc port zoom zoom.

>>12097650
Ce didn’t have online support until the gearbox pc port retard.
The only way to play ce xbox multiplayer was local or system linking up multiple xboxes and tvs which most people didn’t have enough people or space/xboxs/controllers/tvs to do.
Most people that played halo 1 multiplayer never experienced system linking, i have no idea wtf the other anon is smoking. Only really bungie themselves and a few college frat houses had the space/people/money to set up lan parties of that caliber and everyone else online swearing they played halo ce bloodgultch 16 players xbox are simply lying because idk oldfags love to lie about stupid shit
Halo 2 was the first game with Xbox live support unless you thought i meant mcc which. what?
>le zoom zoom
>im retarded and don’t know anything but i finally get to feel smart for once i better write something stupid

>>12097749
I mean you really want me to believe the average 12 year old had 15 other friends they can get in one place at once , 15 xbox controllers, 4 xboxes, 4 copies of halo ce, enough cables to system link all of them, parents cool with them bringing a neighborhood into their house with enough space and tvs to set all of this shit up
Lol
Lmao
This was not remotely the normal experience of halo ce mp. Why lie about this i don't fucking know desu
The average experience was playing 1v1 or 1v1v1 with a few friends
The standard comp format was 2v2 because it was literally the best we could do

>>12097768
At best you got to system link only a couple times to play 5-8 players if you were like a teenanger which even then convincing your mom being cool with you bringing in a quarter of a class room at once. Good luck buddy
Shit was rough back then, people cry about online multiplayer but i actually lived pre that shit and it was a blessing to just be able to play with people with ease. people had lan parties of course usually for like red alert cs wc3 or whatever but they were not common and it was a nightmare in space/power socket logistics

>>12097058
It wouldn't affect most people so hard but ranked was so strict that the two best teams just maxed out at like level 40 and couldn't get games unless they were both online. But everyone was at really low ranks, even moreso than later in H2 where level 50 was still nearly impossible without cheating. Grounded melee attacks took 3-6 hits to kill, grenades sucked, dual wielding with magnums and PR/SMG was extremely strong, the BR had a shitload of spread, there was much more plasma pistols on maps, and there was some other physics and wall exploits besides the sword flying. Plus the bad things about 2 that were never changed like the weapon spawn system.

>>12097768
12 year olds didn't have Xboxs.

>>12097802
Yeah they did, little kids and young teens was halos biggest audience. Not a knock on the games quality, but it was just true.
And being a mid 30 year playing video games at that era was far less common than today, games were strictly a kid-teen thing still until like mw2 original
We call it babies first fps for a reason like that wasn’t made up. A generation grew up from ce to reach than moved onto cod/fornite in their late teens to 20s.
I played ce coop for the first time when i was like 6-8 lol my friend puked during the second level and i had to go home

>>12097808
12 year olds had 360s, but no mommy was not buying the little tike the most expensive 6th gen console on the market that had basically no noteworthy games that weren't rated M and a controller that wouldn't fit in their hands. The Xbox was firmly targeted at 16-25 year olds. No I am not going to take anything you say seriously because there was like two dozen Xboxs sold in countries where people don't actually speak English.

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>>12097749
>Ce didn’t have online support until the gearbox pc port retard.
>The only way to play ce xbox multiplayer was local or system linking up multiple xboxes

No. You just plugged your xbox into your PC and played online with hundreds of others. Stop talking zoomer.

>>12097865
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQM1HBnO-8g

>>12097871
Avoid high ping hosts.

>>12097643
that's the thing, it's too fucking easy, the only difficulty is the fact you might flip the hog if you land wrong, it doesn't feel like some epic escape, more like a leisurely drive with some bumps

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>>12097786
Sounds like you just didn't have many friends dude.
I was 14 when halo came out and we would lan regularly with 5-15 guys. Sometimes a few guys would bring xboxes along and we'd spend a couple hours playing halo MP. It was fun, but not interesting enough to do regularly when we had cs and other hl mods, quake, etc.

>>12096226
>CE's multiplayer was rushed together last minute
Crazy how it shat on every next Halo's multiplayer. CE was peak.

>>12097297
This nigga gets it. Fuck the Maw. A total ass level with non stop spammed enemies. The Library is a pure masterpiece compared to it.

>>12094192
Combat Evolved has no bad Campaign levels and was meant to played Co-op.

>>12096176
The Flood make Halo non-generic. When the Flood are introduced and discovering Captain Keyes's infected body are two of the most horrifying moments in the series. The other is when Master Cheif and The Arbiter are strung up afront Gravemind, a Flood entity.

The Flood are based and a huge part of what makes Halo interesting.

>>12097219
>the warthog run
To this day it's the best ending sequence in all of Halo bar none. The adrenaline rush, sense of urgency, and emotional payoff are all there and unrivaled.

Halo Combat Evolved is simply the peak of the franchise

>>12097768
it happened in my househould
although it was only two systems I think

>>12097874
true but the host had an unfair ping advantage. hosting vs. joining other's games are completely different experiences. i almost always did shit joining other's games compared to hosting

>>12098285
there's no real urgency because you'd have to be absolutely terrible at the game to fuck up at that point, and there's no way you'd get to that point if you were, it's a kind of cool sequence that would be improved significantly if there was any sense of speed or threat, literally the only danger is if you're playing on PC because the hog controls are a bit harder with a mouse
i'm currently going through the campaigns of the main trilogy so i'll have to get back to you on which one had the best ending, i had a copy of 2 back in the day but pretty much only played multiplayer and hated the arbiter levels so never finished it, and i've never played 3

>>12096330
The reason vehicles had multiple seats was because of coop. 2 players + 1 bot.

>>12098281
Narratively, sure. But I'm not talking about the narrative, I'm talking about the gameplay. The Flood are just not fun to fight and the role they play in the narrative can't overcome how much of a bore they are to engage with Halo's mechanics and guns. The Library being the worst level in Halo CE is largely due to the fact that you fighting waves upon waves of a very boring enemy type.

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>>12098616
It started as a multiplayer RTS, then evolved into a multiplayer TPS with RTS like elements and was in that form when it was first shown. Eventually when they committed to a story that led to it being changed to first person and all all the development being focused on getting the campaign done so most of the multiplayer ideas including lots of weapons and vehicles were cut to make something conventional.

>>12097387
>seeing as the CE magnum is a 2-tap headshot kill
3-tap.
The sniper rifle is superior even without headshots

>>12098627
>I hate the flood they're so boring to fight because the small ones are hard to aim at >:(
grow up

>play Halo PC
>love it
>hear that it's considered trash for some reason
>"uhh yeah dude it's missing all these graphic effects and there's no co-op an sheeit..."
>well shucks, guess I missed out
>buy an original Xbox years later and finally get to try out the real deal
>it looks 99.9% identical, the one and only noticeable flaw is the jackal shields not changing color as you shoot them
>framerate is complete fucking shit, frequently dips down to what feels like 15-20fps
>controls are ass coming from kb+m (duh, but still)
>no online multiplayer
>even if you could get somebody to play with you, all the cool custom match settings from the PC are absent. completely bare bones match options and barely any game modes.
>doesn't have a ton of the good maps like death island and timberland that I assumed were there from the beginning and considered 10/10 classics like they were on PC
>no fucking banshee
>NO FUCKING BANSHEE
I play through the PC version at least once every year or two. I really dig the game, and if the Xbox version is what you grew up with then I can understand how you'd still love it. But man, it is fucking rough compared to the PC port. The amount of hate and slander surrounding the PC version would lead you to believe it's some kind of unplayable broken and mess, and it's just not even remotely like that. It takes a fat shit on the Xbox version even without all the blessings that Custom Edition brings.

>>12098759
Nothing feels shittier than missing a sniper headshot in CE multiplayer. I avoid that weapon like the plague.

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>>12098679
i'm still hoping one day a build from the RTS days leaks

>>12098834
>NO FUCKING BANSHEE
Shee noob detected

>>12098848
I unironically almost never use it, I'd rather blow them out of the air with ebin scorpion shots for ez salt. However, I am autistic, and if a game like this goes to the length of including vehicles but they all boil down to glorified cars with no differences in how they traverse terrain, then it triggers my 'tism badly. Halo without banshees is an incomplete experience.

>>12098840
It's still two bodyshots to kill whereas the pistol is 5 bodyshots. Given their rates of fire, that's 1 second to kill with a sniper with just body shots, versus 1.43 seconds with the pistol (again, just body shots).

>>12098834
the worst thing about the xbox version is the lack of hitsounds

>>12098834
>>12098868
no Banshees may sound bad but the arctic level and desert level would not have the same feel if they were present in multiplayer, especially simple 4 person

>>12098889
>no Banshees may sound bad but the arctic level and desert level would not have the same feel if they were present in multiplayer, especially simple 4 person
On PC you can change what vehicles appear in the level or disable them outright. Nothing is lost.

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>>12098882
i also think that this exact texture is an eyesore with the correct xbox normal maps

>>12098834
It's always like that with remakes too. They'll add some needed QoL but fuck a bunch of little things up that makes people pissed. In a just world, we would get both.

I remember watching a MCC video just a few years ago and 343 was still adding in missing effects from Halo's OG Xbox release, lmfao.

>>12098834
Not our fault if you blind nigga

>>12098914
>low resolution launch title running at 15fps looks better than PC game
I'm afraid you're incorrect, Jamal.

>>12098914
you wouldn't give a shit if it wasn't for an autismo peak of mt stupid youtuber spamming 100 videos about it

>>12098926
I gave a shit back in the day because I noticed the Assault Rifle's details were completely gone on PC, it was impossible NOT to notice given popular maps for Custom Edition would use the fixed AR tags.

>>12098931
>dude my assault rifle texture (that I can fix with mods anyway)
>...but the game running like shit? all good brah

>>12098920
>no you see this particular broken HD port is good because I played it when I was a broke ass child

>>12098941
have fun playing your gay goldeneye clone or something https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke8K_aj5_AI

>>12098939
>that I can fix with mods anyway
Clearly you have never played Halo Custom Edition because if you did, you would've known that tags aren't just hotswappable files in the game's directory but internalised into each .map file; that is to say that each .map has its own copy of (almost) EVERY single game asset. Nobody ever rebuilt all of the vanilla maps with fixed Assault Rifle shaders, and even if they had, any halfway decent anti-cheat system would've kicked you from the server for having a non-standard bloodgulch.map in your game files.

>>12098941
>"broken HD port"
>has the same graphics, but with resolution options and doesn't run like ass
My formal diagnosis: you are gay.

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>>12094192 (OP) #

I didn't think halo was a very big deal on my first solo playthrough of the campaign. It just seemed like another sci-fi fps. nothing too out of the ordinary.

It wasn't until later that I realized what a big deal halo was. We started playing it at lan parties and connecting our xboxs together with ethernet switches. If we didn't have enough consoles for that, we'd play split screen co-op on legendary dificulty. Most of the time some of us would be piss drunk doing this. these were fun times.

By the time halo 2 was around the corner there was a huge amount of hype for the game. I attended the special midnight release at electronics boutique to buy my collectors edition copy.

A lot of things happened with halo on xbox. Later xbox live service launched. Then we were playing online multiplayer on our OG xboxes. It all paved the way towards the x360 and halo 3 which was phenomenonal. All my friends had it. We all played it.. but the days of the lan parties were over by the time x360 was around. I misswd that a little bit..

I recently put halo 2 in an OG console and hooked it up to my 27" CRT just like the old days. My buddy and I decided to try to play some split screen co-op. The screen was split vertucally. It was really hard to play and looked like shit. Neither of us could believe that we used to play it like that..

Halo 1 is beatable on legendary but stupidly hard. It can still be sorta fun.

Halo 2 is so hard on legendary that its not even worth it and not fun at all

>>12099024
>>12099032
cmon champ, you can do it. fix those typos!

>>12099032
It only splits vertically in widescreen retard.

>>12099053
>duuude back in the day... we like, played this game and we were so drunk and shit haha... like, LAN n' stuff... it was a big deal bro...
>conveniently forgets what the game actually looked like on a normal TV from the era
yeah, that checks out.

>>12098905
many of the textures in the PC port are off. they're "flat". they don't have that sheen that made it one of the best looking games at the time

>>12099049
I did it! I fixed all the typos!

>>12099053
We were too drunk to figure out the settings. It was for nostalgia

>>12099067
We all had CRTs back then man. It wasnt really until the x360 that many started to transition to lcd and flat screens.

Though I did have one friend who had one those inbetween CRTs with hdmi input and wide 16\9 display. It was a sony wega trinitron. This one was used for lan parties on a few occasions as it was the largest CRT many of us had ever seen. Projector TVs were less common.

>>12099090
that screenshot is of https://github.com/Sledmine/censhine
they suck and are greebly eyesores

>>12099139
mcc's retarded ue4 frontend and loading screens kill the vibe of all of the games more than trivial pc port visual inaccuracies

>>12099136
>We all had CRTs back then man.
i know, that's why i implied that you're a retarded larping fag since you somehow forgot how the game looked.

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>>12099162
I did forget. I was really drunk the laat time we played halo 2 on crt. Maybe I remeber it being set to split screen incorrectly?

Here I've just set it up. Its quite nice looking actually. My phone camera isn't really capable of accurately capturing the color.

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>>12099193
Its very blue looking in this picutre but on my CRT with component inputs on an original the color looks really good.

This game never looked right on x360 despite it being backwards compatible

I coulda sworn we were drunk trying to play halo 2 co-op on a vertical split screen and not being able to figure out how to make it horizontal Maybe there was whiskey involved. I dont remeber.. maybe it was really horizontal split screen all along.

>>12094246
lmao the spawns on ratrace

>>12099214
Rat Race and Chill Out are the greatest Halo maps.

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>>12099206
you're being gaslit

>>12094192
you get basically infinite assault rifle ammo and enough shotgun ammo to manage the combat. it's not that hard.
>>12098275
based. completely correct. co-op is the most fun way to play the halo campaign

>>12094192
halo 1 multiplayer is pretty fun in the same way as Half-Life 1s. You kinda just have to understand it.

>>12098042
15 irl friends is kind of a lot, and pretending everyone just had those laying around is insane
Like i had 6 and getting them all in one place sometimes was a nightmare

>>12099962
>15 irl friends is kind of a lot,
Only if you don't count superficial ones.

>>12099843
Half Life Deathmatch was way funnier than Counter-Strike.

>>12094192
Every halo fucking sucks. Dumb shit shooter for people bad at FPS. Reddit hill of FPS.

>>12094449
Sure but the game also has vehicles.

>>12094192
Play it with a controller on original hardware and you'll get it. That's what it took for me to like it.

Halo is like playing a game in slow motion. My actual walking speed is at least twice MC's.

>>12098804
it's moreso because they don't react to any gun. Makes sense for a Zombie-like enemy but it's really unsatisfying when you compare to how the Covenant react to a single bullet.

It's also due to that their AI is extremely simple, and they don't use any sort of tactics, and of the 4 different types of flood only two of them really engage with you (in a very limited sense). And to top it off they are so easy to take out with the pistol and shotgun that they're not even challenging.

I don't know how else to tell you dude, they are just boring.

>>12101220
only when you're going up for thirds at the buffet GOTTI

>>12099048
i remember when xbox and xbox live first came out, shit still felt like a lan party.

everyone had a mic (since it came with the xbox live pack) and people actually talked instead of being some antisocial fag.

cs and halo 2 were hella fun as a result. lotta good memories

>>12094268
>>12094267
a tool that works 80% of the time in over half of cases is better than one that works 100% of the time in a fifth of cases

At the time, was Legendary regarded as actually difficult? I've been playing on MCC, mostly with classic graphics, if that matters.

>>12101960
I still find Legendary really challenging even on coop.

>>12101960
I don't think there's a Halo game with a Legendary mode that's considered easy, just ones that are harder than others.

>>12094292
GOT EM

>>12101968
H3 is pretty easy, you just had to know how to deal with how massively damage spongey Brute Chieftains become and maybe some vehicle sections could be hard. Reach was a lot harder with the giga nigga Elites carpet bombing your entire zip code with concussion rifles every time you peaked out of cover and instant 180 axe kicking your head off when you try to assassinate them.

>>12102021
>how massively damage spongey Brute Chieftains
All you need to do is walk around them and backsmack them. The Brutes are total pussies in that game

>the one autist who is dogshit at Halo is back again
pathetic

>>12102034
Chieftains are generally hanging at the back of the formation until they turn their invincibility on though so that takes a little bit of knowing what you're doing.

>>12102036
Even with invincibility they still die to backsmacks

>>12102037
I mean fair enough my point was just that unlike lower difficulties you can't just focus fire the chieftain to make the problem go away and an unexpected charging hammer chieftain can flush you out of cover into the crossfire of its escorts and an aggro'd turret chieftain can be a huge pain without good weapons, so you need a bit of a plan for those mini-boss fights how you will either instagib them or fight around them. Not super hard but nothing else even sticks out as being notably harder than Heroic on Legendary besides maybe the drones in Crow's Nest?

>>12101927
True which is why plasma rifle is by far the best singleplayer weapon. Pistols are weak against elites and jackals.

>>12102354
>Pistols are weak against elites
yeah...if you suck

>>12102354
>pistol weak against jackals
Anon c'mon