>>12108670
So you didn't beat the game in one day

It's an oldschool RPG

>>12108670
Are you asking what parameters within the game make it grindy or why it was designed for you to grind?

Because you are dumb.

I'm only half kidding.

Dragon Quest is about exploring, finding out and figuring out things and using what you've found to beat things that you otherwise might not have been able to pass without far more grinding. You CAN, often grind right though things anyway, the games let you do that, but he point is to explore, acquire tools and avoid this as much as possible.

The games involve a certain amount of inherent grind, but the emphasis is generally on discovery more than it is on repetition. The series isn't the dumb grindy thing western JRPG players seem to think it is, at least not compared to how other JRPGs are in general.

>>12108670
>>12108695
Half righ

OP's screenshot is of the start of chapter 2 which is nothing but shitty grinding until you can beat the first boss

Time spent in a fantasy world enhances the emotional connection one makes with a game.

Grinding in an RPG is a voluntary expenditure of energy on a repetitive task that can have a relaxing and meditative effect, while also helping saturate the idea of being on an adventure with one's party. In the same way that binging a TV series develops very little emotional connection compared to watching it slowly week by week, spending more time with the game enhances the fond memories that develop as a result.

because right after artificial difficulty was invented to eat arcade coins, they invented artificial game length to justify cartridge prices

You can't have interesting combat without what you refer to as "grind". There are exceptions of course but JRPGs of the next generations that are built around the idea that no training is required usually result in boring braindead combat, and I bet that some of the people complaining about "grind" in the old games are some of the same ones complaining about the braindead combat when there is no "grind".

But everytime I've engaged with one complaining about "grind" in DQ games, I found that the person in fact had really poor strategy and was sort of expecting to press X to win.
That's why they think they think "it's super grindy", they think they're supposed to grind to the point that they don't have to think about their moves in combat.
I'm not saying DQ is some super deep strategical game, only that there IS a level of strategy to adopt that some players don't understand or expect because all they've known is the braindead shit of the next generations. It's sort of like there is now an entire generation of players who don't understand that challenge used to be the entire point of action games and instead tell themselves it's all "artificial difficulty/rental difficulty/etc"

>>12108703
> is nothing but shitty grinding until you can beat the first boss

It takes less than 45 mins of grind to be able to beat the first boss. Lvl 1 grind was standard and expected back then in RPGs, and by those standards 45 mins isn't that much. DQ4's only sin however is to have to do the lvl1 grind 4 times.
I don't count chapter 5 as a 5th lvl1 grind because in that chapter it's actually really easy and fast to reach the next town at lvl 1 or 2 and have 2 of your already trained characters join

People almost never talk about this but optimising your grinding routine is pretty much a big part of early JRPGs

>>12108670
You want an honest answer?

> Japan
> 1980s
> No smart phones, one land line, no internet, one TV that dad or mom is using
> You get a small half broken TV on the floor in your bed room
> You need something that you can just sink 12 hours a day into because lord knows you had nothing else to do.

>>12108695
Lmao. You are not describing Dragon Quest bro. DQ is way too simplistic.

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>>12108695
>exploring
he said
In a game were you get screwed every 5 steps.

>>12108748
You can't beat the final boss of DW4 without grinding though.

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>>12108670
>Why is Dragon Quest so grindy?
because the same reason dragon quest had casino games.
the grinding in dragon quest is exciting in a gambling sense.
dq games used to make mp recovery very rare and you had to make educated guesses on number of encounters and when you can make it to town.
bad encounters and crits can change everything.

you CAN stay in 1 area and grind forever, but the real fun is gambling moving forward.
the feel when you make it out of a long dungeon reach a new town was amazing.
current dq is no longer like this, sadly.

>>12108670
what else were you going to do

>>12108857
>the grinding in dragon quest is exciting in a gambling sense.
Which makes sense as it was created by a gambling addict.

>>12108670
I've only played DQ1 (NES), DQ2 (SNES) and am currently in DQ3's pyramid (NES). I only ever had to grind DQ1 for the end boss because it's a damage race kinda fight and below a certain level it's literally impossible to beat. I only ever had to grind in DQ2 when getting to the end game snow area before the last dungeon and it was more money grinding to buy equipment than level grinding. DQ3 I haven't had to grind yet. Maybe 4 is different and maybe later on DQ3 will make me change my mind but for now I don't feel like any of the games are grindy.

>>12108825
What do you even mean? Anon is right. You get told vague goals and have to explore to find where to go. Dying lets you keep exp. and half your money. Which means even if you die while exploring an area that's too hard for your level, you will still level up.

>>12108959
Finding where to go is easy for the 1st half of the game. The problem is that mandatory bosses are way too strong for the exp you get.

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>>12108670
Keep ballin (level up)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8yA2St476A

>>12108670
There's like 20 minutes of story in the game. Same as most JRPGs. If they include more story and character development, the children these games are marketed to complain about having to read too much.

This game is for 10-16 year olds, OP. Most JRPGs are.

>>12108670
I read somewhere it's tied to some Japanese cultural ideal - it may be tedious and boring but if you grind hard enough in work or school, you'll eventually get to where you want to be.

>>12109072
James Marcus looks like Abacchio from JoJo Golden Wind in this.

>>12108670
>>12109659
Was gonna say that, yeah. Realized in the spring when I replayed the first game that Dragon Warrior blew up like fuck in Japan and the grind thing became standard because Japanese society is built on bashing your head into a wall for x hours every day for incrimental improvement.

>>12109659
>>12109715
Son these games were lifted carbon copy from Ultima so it's pretty impressive that 18 year old Richard Garriott was so deeply enmeshed in Japanese culture.

Please, please, please make an effort not to apply cultural standards you don't understand from a country you've never been to to a game that was made and became a hit before you were born.

>>12109812
Son please learn how to read:
> Dragon Warrior blew up like fuck in Japan
It wasn't made that way because japs but it and the format became popular over there because japs.
This is part of the reason why despite Square stealing the genre from Americans, they thought Americans were too retarded to understand and appreciate RPGS properly.

There's two types of grind in Dragon Quest. The actual shitty spend all day grinding (NES DQ1, the end of 2) and the earlygame "I need a level or two, time to walk in a circle for 5 minutes" (the rest of the series). The latter is fine and is in pretty much every JRPG at the time because your party sucks ass due to having no stats, magic, equipment or money.

>>12109861
>"I need a level or two, time to walk in a circle for 5 minutes"
Why would you do that? Like DQ3 for example since it's fresh in my mind. You don't know where to go, so you explore and find a tower nearby and a city to the northwest. You enter the tower and have a look around to see if the monsters are too strong for you or not. At this point you already gained enough levels to actually beat the tower, but will probably need to go back to one of the cities to buy items and equipment. Going back and forth from these places would have you fighting a bunch of times. Even if you had grinded for 5 minutes, you would have to explore afterwards, so why run in circles anyway? Never got people who do that.

>>12109878
*you enter the cave that leads to the tower, is what I mean

>>12108818
>You are not describing Dragon Quest bro.
Then what the fuck JRPG series AM I describing then? My experience is that Dragon Quest is the all round best at this kind of stuff, I know of no other set of turn based games (outside of WRPGs) that consistently place so much emphasis on free exploration the way DQ does. Most things in the genre are hyper-linear and force you through a bazillion cutscenes before you'e allowed to do anything potentially interesting, DQ is one of the few exceptions which generally lets you fuck off and explore soon after the opening.

I put it in the same general category as Pokemon, in that the games are generally well designed and have a deceptive amount of depth to them, as opposed to being the kind of pretentious thing that shoves tons of immediate complexity into your face, but ultimately is far less strategic or freeform than it pretends to be.

>>12109974
>WRPGs
Not a thing.

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>>12108670
You made this same thread on /v/ then spammed it here when it didn't get the (You)s you hoped for.
Absolutely despicable shit.

>>12108770
This and having the option to grind is nice. Like in FF5 you can grind to master a job so you can use its ability on other jobs. I remember doing that as a kid once I had red mage unlocked. Their last job level required 999 points which took a while.

>>12108670
It's not, you're just playing it wrong because your mind has been corrupted by games like Final Fantasy where you get Game Over for dying.

>>12108703
>OP's screenshot is of the start of chapter 2 which is nothing but shitty grinding until you can beat the first boss
Even then, the party members have such wildly different leveling curves and costs of equipment so that every 2-3 battles (of the fastest battle system on the planet) immediately rewards you, giving you a 'only one more battle' type of feel.

>>12108676
You'd be surprised how few want to grind, says a lot about the average anon

>>12110052
> Like in FF5 you can grind to master a job so you can use its ability on other jobs
In FF5 if you know which jobs give freelancers/mimes the highest stats + how to effectively combine abilities then if you grind enough you can make a party of literal gods even before hitting level 45, I like that a lot. It's probably my favorite JRPG after DQ4

>>12108959
So the pyramid was hard. Since then I beat Orochi, and I decided to look on gamefaqs to see if I missed anything in the cave because I'm too lazy to go back to explore again. That's when I notice the highest rated guide says:
>I barely made it out of this fight with everyone alive and I was level 26.
He tells you to use buffs during the fight. The thing is, anyone who knows the IRL Orochi legend knows he was killed after being put to sleep from alcohol. The sleep spell was the first thing I tried, you can keep him on perma-sleep and it's the easiest fight in the game. I did it on level 20 as my highest level. I'm noticing all the recommended levels on the guide are higher than what I had. I guess my point is that people like that author contribute to this perception of the games being grindy. I'm also noticing metal slimes being way more common and easier to kill than on both previous games but I might just be lucky.

Grinding is essentially meditation or prayer and is both enjoyable and spiritually affirming if approached with the proper mindset. Unlike meditation or prayer, a JRPG actually allows you to progress through repetition of the mindless repetitive task, making it something akin to exercise or work on a faster timescale. It's beautiful.

>>12108695
No its about grinding dumbass, this is all nonsense

>>12112764
>him
*her, forgot Orochi is a she in this game

>>12112764
>I guess my point is that people like that author contribute to this perception of the games being grindy

Yes, that is totally a thing with old game RPGs, they always recommend to grind more than necessary. Especially if the guide was written in the early 00's back when emulation was still new

I genuinely didn't know this about Orochi though but I still maintain that this part is a huge difficulty spike, because it's not just Orochi that's hard but the entire cave before him too. The game leads you to this place almost as soon as you get the boat when in reality there are several easier areas to clear first, but I've never seen anybody point that out yet everybody is always eager to jump on the DQ2 hate train for things that aren't flaws

>>12113554
>I genuinely didn't know this about Orochi
I looked it up after posting and it turns out on the SNES version they don't let you put him to sleep on the second fight, only in the first one in the cave. Maybe people used to that version didn't even try on the NES.

>it's not just Orochi that's hard but the entire cave before him too.
Nothing there seemed that much stronger to me than in the tower near the Dharma temple where you get the book to transform into a sage, considering you have access to better equipment by then. Which is not easy, but not as difficult as the pyramid IMO. But maybe I still have pyramid PTSD and am judging everything by that meter. Also, the cave itself is full of metal slimes, I gained a few levels there.

>>12113554
>>12114216
It's astonishing that a segment of a game being "hard" causes you physical pain and lasting anger.

What, unironically, is wrong with you? I mean this as a serious question. I never pouted and displayed years-lasting resentment towards a video game for being "too hard" or a "difficulty spike". I want to know what happened to you to make you this way, because it never stops coming up on this lameass, weak board.

>>12115530
Maybe people don't like wasting their time

>>12115530
Your reply has nothing to do with either post you're quoting.

>>12115661
thats nice

>>12115641
If you think playing games is wasting time you have chosen the wrong hobby, and it's deeply sad that you choose to look at it that way. Games are so much more than just "cleared it, got 100%, next please, cleared it, got 100%, next please." I hope someday you realize that.

What is bro going on about

>>12108765
Does Dragon Quest actually have mayors outside of the final Dragonlord? The Green Dragon in the cave?

>>12118894
The knight in Haukness

>>12108778
>Japan
>1980s
>implying that was a bad time in Japan
lol. It’s not like everyone was rich, obviously, but what an idiotic claim you’re vomiting out here.

>>12108672
then what the fuck is the point
games were made to be beaten, not played

grinding is a non-issue with emulators. you just do it very fast and then enjoy the game. no time wasted beyond five minutes of pressing a every now and then.

>>12120928
>games were made to be beaten, not played
Do you have anything to back this up?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

>>12120980
yes.
beating games is the ultimate goal of interacting with them. to do so, you need to win against the challenges they present. but the best way to win against them is to not engage with the mechanics at all, because it saves time and effort. thus, using cheats, pre-made save states or even skipping to the end of a walkthrough video are all more preferable options to playing the game, because they get you to the end sooner.

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>>12108703
>OP's screenshot is of the start of chapter 2 which is nothing but shitty grinding until you can beat the first boss
This thread is so old that I'm:
>>12108959
I beat 3 and started 4. Just beat that first boss of the second chapter. Pic related, I'm level 3 and the only equipment I bought was the leather hat and copper sword. Zero grinding. I went to the second town, realized it had no shops, went back to the first one, bought the hat, then went back, slept at the inn, and that's it. Everyone at level 3 vs level 8 in the OP pic. I know the OP is a shitpost btw, it's just that I so happened to be playing these games and it was relevant.

>>12119053
He didn't say it was bad

>>12108670
None of them are at all "grindy" unless you zip straight through the main story without exploring and doing side quests. If you can't beat the game while playing naturally it's quite literally a skill issue.

>>12108670
The last part of DQ II wasn't tested due to time constraints and their dumbass cumbersome methods of sending in new revisions to be tested, so the difficult ramps up and you really have to grind.

it goes back to how japanese gamers were first playing rpgs. when they got ahold of wizardy it didnt make much sense for those who didnt know/had limited english, so to progess they would grind and that is what they were used to, so when it came time for them to make rpgs they used what they already knew best.

>>12109878
It's because a lot of RPG players use guides that tell them exactly where to go so they miss out on the exploration and finding out where to go on your own part, thus they wind up underleveled.

>>12120975
live in the moment and leave the ffwd on the vcr

>>12122517
OP's pic is from The Cutting Room Floor showing off the tomb censorship between JP and US. It just also coincidentally is a part where you have to walk back and forth to grind.
>I went back and grinded
Okay

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Presented without comment

I really enjoyed grinding as a kid, in pokemon/runescape, etc. It gave me this feeling that I could overcome difficulty through perseverance.
Stuff that actually required critical thinking, decision making (especially under time pressure, I liked RTSs but I could only play the easiest missions) just made me quit and play something else. I couldn't take the aggravation. I've started to see that this is the difference between strategic thinking and tactical thinking.
Grinding is a strategy, pattern building - get more stat points than the enemy to win. Strategy is what you use when time is abundant.
Problem solving is tactics, pattern breaking - what can I do to defeat an enemy with more stats than me. Tactics are used when time has been exhausted.
A good game requires both but tactics are so rarely required in JRPG it's genuinely surprising to see a game that is built with them in mind. That's why I hate it when JRPGs make all bosses immune to static effects. Enemies spamming insta death spells and repeatedly putting status effects on your entire party seem like very blunt solutions to these games lack of tactical difficulty. I wish there was a better gradient.

>>12123690
Second chapter starts. I go to the first town, buy a sword since it's all I can buy. Keep going to the second town. Realize there are no weapon or armor shops but NPCs say I have to fight a monster that's been taking sacrifices or something of the sort, which I assume is gonna be a whole dungeon. Go back to first town, all I can afford is a leather hat. Go back to second town, fight the boss. Lose 2 times, beat it on the 3rd try. Where is the part where I supposedly stopped playing naturally to grind for levels?

>>12108670
It's something you'll only understand if you've actually played through the original NES/Famicom version of Dragon Quest I.

The entire "gameplay" of DQ1 was grinding. But it wasn't just mindlessly mashing buttons. It was SUPER heavy on decision-making.
>If I grind against the gold golems, I get less exp but the gold could buy me equipment to move to a faster grinding area and net me faster exp in the longrun
>If I fight strong enemies for high exp right outside of a village, I can run in and heal after every battle, but it costs a lot of gold and will make new equipment slower
>Is it better to buy the new sword now to consistently one-shot enemies, or do I keep saving for the one after?
>Will buying a better shield save me money on healing in the longrun?
>Should I try to power through the swamp that I'm underleveled for, so I can buy an item from the shop there?
>Am I strong enough to try to advance the story yet?
>What about Metal Slimes?
These decisions matter BECAUSE the grind is so slow. It's a game of figuring out the most effective way to do it, and doing it wrong will cost you an extra 30 minutes of grinding.

>>12123726
sovl

>>12123862
You're not wrong but one thing to keep in mind is that DQ1 is kind of an open world game where you get no instructions where to go or what to do other than some vague hints which also don't tell you in which order to do things. So
>Should I try to power through the swamp that I'm underleveled for, so I can buy an item from the shop there?
You don't even know if there's a good shop there or if that's the best place to go now. Powering through is what I did for the desert for example but the town was abandoned when I got there. There's a whole semi labyrinth of sorts in the southern part of the overworld that leads nowhere and does nothing but wasting your time, just exploring it is gonna make you advance a bunch of levels. Basically what I mean is that wandering around exploring accounts for half of the "grind". Instead, what actually made me have to grind more than levels was money to buy equipment.

>>12123836
>finish dungeon
>remember there's a chest
>go grab it
>kill everything on the way and back, netting me at least 1 level I would otherwise not have
Haha yeah I don't see why everyone else is having trouble. Don't even try to pretend you weren't level 2 when you first got to the village. Also now your money isn't adding up. If you lose twice not only are you losing half of the gold you're holding twice but you need to pay to revive your two party members each time. You definitely do not have that much money while supposedly not grinding.

>>12123916
>Haha yeah I don't see why everyone else is having trouble.
I'm starting to think everyone who grinds or thinks these games need tons of grinding are playing with guides or doing replays. Because what you just described is a normal thing to do. In the first chapter for example, I went to the tower at least 3 times because halfway through I'd find an item and go back to the village to sell it. But if I already knew everything I was gonna find there and planned my equipment and route beforehand I would probably need indeed to run around back and forth in a random patch of grass to level up.

>If you lose twice not only are you losing half of the gold
You're right. Being honest, I just reload when I die. But if I didn't I would be at a higher level anyway since you keep XP.

>>12123919
>Because what you just described is a normal thing to do
First off no, I'm pretty sure the normal pattern for starting Alena's chapter is: buy stuff at the first village -> walk to second village, hit level 2 -> fight the boss -> get creamed -> try again -> get creamed, accept that you need to spend a few minutes walking back and forth for a level or two. But if you want to talk "normal things" then you what is a normal thing? Grinding a level or two at the start like the game tells you in >>12123726 yet you deny that in a post earlier in the thread. Look I'm not gonna sit here all day arguing with you because you are absolutely determined to deny any kind of grind whatsoever. I don't mind Alena's chapter asking for you to gain a level or two because it takes very little time and can actually be pretty fun like how someone else mentioned that Alena's party is pretty much queued to level one after the other. But I'm not going to deny that it is a grind that exists and the game asks for it. So have fun I guess I'm sure I'll hear you talking about how you beat the tournament with 0 grind too in a little bit.

>>12123886
That example was from personal experience, where I muscled through to that town at the end of the swamp (you know, the one WAY off in the middle of nowhere) just to see if there was anything there that could help me advance. Then the enemies were too strong so I had to go back. After that, I always had to consider going back there to grind or buy stuff, despite the long-ass trek.

>>12123938
The example you said:
>finish dungeon
>remember there's a chest
>go grab it
>kill everything on the way and back, netting me at least 1 level I would otherwise not have
Is basically what happens in the first chapter when trying to get the flying shoes and also what happens in the tower considering you have limited inventory slots yet keep finding items, while the tower has a clear exit point halfway through for you to go back to the nearest town. That's why I'm saying it's normal. I'm also not saying there's literally 0 grind, but the OP and some of the replies are talking about DQ being uniquely grindy when as far as JRPGs go I'm finding them to be mostly doable with minimal grinding if you just take your time and explore. Not DQ1 though, that one has required grinding since the final boss is literally impossible below a certain level (which varies according to your name) even though you can technically do the rest of the game with minimal grinding by running away from fights and cheesing bosses with the sleep spell (good luck doing that).

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Hmm yes I do believe you're using a guide just look at how much there is to explore going from points 6 to 7 to 8. Only guide users would go straight from 7 to 8 without exploring at all. You would normally be level 10 before hitting point 8 if you weren't using a guide.

>>12123989
Yeah the start of chapter 2 fucking sucks, they should have added a small cave with loot or something

>>12123989
It's indeed very possible that someone would just go straight from town 7 to town 8 there and then try to fight the boss. It's also possible that what I did happens (go back to spend money on equipment since you can't spend it on 8) or that by walking around the mountain area (trying to explore the upper part for example) you take too much damage and decide to go back to heal. Getting to level 3 without grinding in these cases shouldn't be unreasonable. Meanwhile in trying to remember exactly how it goes I looked up a playthrough on youtube now, and the dude grinded to level 5 which is what I assume most people are doing.

>>12124020
I have to say, I'm not liking how linear these first 2 chapters at least have been but I hope it's just the intro.

>>12120998
>beating games is the ultimate goal of interacting with them.
This is nu-gamer mentality spawned from post-2000 movie games.
Pre-vidya games were endless (TTRPG).
Athletic games were endless, or at least until people got bored/tired.
Arcade games were endless.

Beating games is satisfying, but the ultimate goal of playing a game is to simply play it and pass the time.

Dragon Quest 1:
>hero in fantasy world goes on adventure alone to defeat evil dragonlord, while looking for the gear of the legendary hero to fight him with
>barebones in-flavor clues and fluff dialogue, not much to do besides main quest, no control over character development
Dragon Quest 2:
>3 direct descendants of the hero from the first game gather together and travel the world to find magical artifacts needed to gain access to a new bad guy's distant castle and defeat him, can use a boat now
>barebones in-flavor clues and fluff dialogue, not much to do besides main quest, no control over characters development
Dragon Quest 3:
>some guy from what appears to be Atlantis in what looks like what could be our world gets three mercs and heads out to travel the world and beat the evil guy who killed his father, eventually traveling through a portal in the middle of Africa to the fantasy world of the first two games, becoming the legendary hero from the first game, can get a boat and a dragon to fly around
>arena to bet on monster fights, mercs can be traded out anytime you can access the starting town, mercs can be re-classed once level 20 and you have the needed item and access to Dharma, only the main character can't be modified

If you look carefully, you can see the exact moment the DQ devs felt threatened by Final Fantasy.

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>>12124098
>If you look carefully, you can see the exact moment the DQ devs felt threatened by Final Fantasy.

And that moment wasn't DQ3. If anything it's the contrary, DQ3's influence was all over FF1, despite both games coming out only a month apart. DQ3 having classes was known for a LONG time before release, during an entire year before release a lot of prerelease content was shared in Famitsu hyping up the game in every single issue (and it's actually astonishing how close to final all the info and screenshots are even what dates way back). Meanwhile iirc it wasn't until the SFC days that FF started having their own "FF times" in Famitsu, which directly copied the "DQ times" that had been going on for a long time.

FF1 sold 500k copies in Japan as opposed to the 3.8 millions of DQ3. It wasn't until FF5 and 6 that sales of both series started to get close.

>>12108695
this
75% of american players look up the guide book where to go before they even set foot out of the town
you're supposed to explore and probe areas and estimate the danger, and prepare accordingly. plan your next exploration expedition. etc.
the brainless gamer just looks where the book tells them to look, and grind to a sufficient level because the player hasn't even been playing the game yet

>>12124098
Yes DQ4 with its melodramatic linear crap instead of focusing on exploring the world

>>12124219
>>12124098
Also, FF1's success (500k was still a success by Famicom RPG standards) came out of nowhere, nobody could have predicted it and certainly not the DQ devs. All the RPGs released by Squaresoft and DOG did not sell well and had lukewarm reviews at best. It wasn't until 1-2 months before release that it started to looking like FF1 could be something interesting.

Dragon Quest 3:
>some guy from what looks like what could be our world travels through a portal to a fantasy world where, with his D&D team he hired at a local pub, he uses his powers from his home world to defeat the demon lord of another world, becoming the legendary hero.

If you look carefully, you can see the exact moment the Isekai genre started.

>>12124225
>its melodramatic linear crap instead of focusing on exploring the world
That's DQ5

>>12124246
DQ5 is Dragon Quest trying to be Final Fantasy. Ironically, FF5 is Final Fantasy trying to be Dragon Quest.

>>12124246
>>12124930
4 is way more linear than 5

>>12124051
>the ultimate goal of playing a game is to simply play it and pass the time.
no, you play games to beat them and get to the end.

>>12123862
>What about Metal Slimes?
"Alright, a Metal Slime!"

>>12108770
Some people have no appreciation for routine.

>>12124051
>Beating games is satisfying, but the ultimate goal of playing a game is to simply play it and pass the time.

I think this mentality, treating games as only something to pass time, is more widespread in Japan, which explains their love or RPGs and why their board games like Sugoroku involve almost no strategy whatsoever.

Which reminds me a reader asking a question in DQ times on Famitsu in the early 90's, saying "what should I do in DQ3 now that all my characters are lvl 99?"

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>>12108670
you play it after school/work grind a little bit before bed during week days and on the weekend you get to spend all your gold and fight the boss.

>>12108670
anon, thats the game.. don't you want more game?