because it turns out you have a second stick and it does the job way, WAY better. Your pic is an example of a game where the camera is more of a danger than the enemies.
>>12131957But trigger cameras have their advantages. You can’t move the camera and press the face buttons simultaneously with a stick camera.
>>12131957>it does the job way, WAY betterNo it doesn't, because the right stick forces you to remove your thumb from the actual face buttons you play the game with. It's clunky and inefficient.
>>12131938It did feel super intuitive controlling with the shoulder buttons in KH and having the thumb free to press the face buttons. But the problem is that oftentimes it's not enough to just turn the camera left or right, games often require looking up or down. In that case it's better to use the analog stick with important buttons like attack mapped to the shoulder buttons.
>up and down on the dpad for moving back and forthmakes sense>left and right on the dpad for turning the camerauhhhh>triggers for strafing left and rightwhat the fucki might be a zoomer but this is one of those things i will never understand
>>12132023a remnant from when PC FPS games didnt require a mouse to play. you couldn't strafe left or right unless you held in a strafe key, same as what consoles would replicate.
the right analog stick allows for vertical as well as horizontal camera control. while not as essential as horizontal control the utility of a player being able to dynamically adjust in another axis and not be completely dependent on the devs for their vertical pov was probably too much to pass up. the burden of having to take your thumb off the face buttons for camera control was seen as an acceptable compromise, especially given that non platformers could probably get by with the active buttons being limited to the 4 shoulders
>>12132190>you couldn't strafe left or right unless you held in a strafe keyWhat game? Yes, Doom has a key that when held, turns the turning keys into strafing keys, but there also are separate dedicated strafing keys that always strafe without having to hold down another keyYou can play the original version of Doom with WASD for movement and arrow keys for turning which how I play keyboard only
>>12131965>>12131968Claw grip>butJust saying
>>12131938The camera and platforming was so ass in this game especially after playing Mario64/Sunshine
>>12132680>Comparing a platforme game with an action RPG
>Playing 3D games with this makes zoomers go insane
>>12131957>you have a second stick and it does the job way, WAY better.It depends on whether the trigger/bumper "turns" you or snaps you into a specific angle.Being able to hit RB to snap into weird angles was very nice in a lot of games, and I miss it.
>>12131938I'm designing a 3d platformer and I'm asking myself what I'd rather do about that. Back in the days of older 3d games the shoulder triggers were often unused, maybe R but not L. In Sonic Adventure, I liked L/R for camera rotation for as simple as it was, even if it lacked the vertical controls that the right stick can give.
>>12132023We didn't have joysticks (at home) yet man, what do you want from us lol
>>12132776Same guy but an idea I wanted to bounce off>right stick for 3rd person camera rotation>L Bumper for snapping camera behind subject>double tap L Bumper to flip camera 180* from current perspective (have a frame or two to buffer the input so it doesn't accidentally snap you to back when you're trying to flip, that would be disorienting if unchecked)
>>12132023>triggers for strafing left and rightI only remember Armored Core doing that.
>>12131965>>12131968Go play the KH1 remaster. Then go play the original PS2 version. It's night and day how much the camera improved with that one change.
>>12132693KH changing its camera scheme wasn't something they took forever to do, they made the change literally with the second 3D game only 3 years later. They were in the same console generation.And yes, some games do have shitty camera controls because of that control scheme, which is why tank controls were so much more applicable back then.
>>12131957>>12131965keyboard and mouse supremacy
>>12133005Sure but that's an entirely different control scheme, also some games just do not work as well on keyboard like fighting games unless you're adding in macros.
>>12132779my point is it feels more intuitive to use the dpad for character movement exclusively, and then you can reserve the triggers for the camera, no? i don't see a reason to split them up like that
>>12133101>also some games just do not work as well on keyboardNotice how all those types of games lack camera control? Nothing beats a mouse for moving a camera, except VR I guess, and then you have to strap shit on your head.
>>12132693ZDS
Fundamentally, when you are controlling movement and camera, or movement on two axis using both hands, you are limited in how many other buttons you can hit with that hand without briefly losing control of motion or the camera. On standard WASD M+KB setups you can only hit things with your pinky and thumb, and you've got 2-3 mouse buttons without buying a fancy mouse. Controllers have the same problem, if you're using both sticks you can only hit triggers without your thumb leaving the stick without buying some weird controller.Most 2D games had no real need for two axis of movement/perspective, so instead they expected you to move/move a cursor with a d-pad/mouse, and your other hand/thumb to be free to hit 4-6 buttons or like 15 keyboard keys. Early 3D games often times did not immediately move away from this and were still designed for you to have 4-6 command options on the right hand of your controller, so as a compromise you turn with your index/middle fingers. Entire genres on PC maintained the exact perspective of when they were 2D games when they transitioned to 3D to avoid having to dumb down their playstyle.>>12132023>>12132876>trigger-strafingIt's standard in Armored Core and King's Field, all the Doom/Quake/Duke console ports, and many other console exclusive FPS on PS1/Saturn, and if the ports have some other control option it usually just flops strafing onto the DPAD and puts turning on triggers like in Megaman Legends.Armored Core and King's Field also use triggers to look up and down. In the ports of the PC shooters the trigger strafing is actually the better option imo, and if there's also a freelook button, you can map it to O/X on a PS1/Saturn controller to make it easy to hold while firing or running with AB/X[_].It's really funny that everyone uses from soft's twinstick setup now, because they were one of the last companies to abandon the PS1 setup in the 2000s.
>>12134653Not if you mostly play retro games, no. Back then "tank" controls were the standard for everything.Switching "turn" to the bumpers would just mess with everyone's muscle memory, without adding any real benefit.
>>12134661Mouse aiming is worse for horror games, imo, specifically because it makes those things so much easier.The games just lose all suspense for me when I can snap my view in any direction instantly and strafe jump away from danger.
>>12135139>oh noes! I cant play muh horror without lag and shit controls!!! Gibsme dem tank controls back.
>>12135178>lagnever mentioned>shit controlsIf turn speed was limited in pc horror game ports, mouse would be fine. It's simply hard to build suspense when you feel like a superhuman in game. Games like Outlast are completely different games on PC vs console. One is scary, the other feels more like an action game.
>>12132692That's what I'm saying they should have scrapped the jumping platforming segments it never felt right it should have been like dark souls
>>12132693My first console was a PS1, but it came with a DualShock.
>>12135264>My first console was a PS1Spiritually a zoomer
>>12135513I'm 32 and my first console was also a ps1
>>12135536>Not born in the 80sngmi
>>12135540Being an 80s kid must suck>I miss the 80s>all my cartoons are gay toy commercials>The 80s was the best we did bike rides nobody else did>Remember stand by me? It came out...in the 80s!>I saw the challenger explode!>We had ronald reagan nobody else did>Yup I love watching forgettable saturday morning cartoons that were just commercials for toys>You know those toys are a lot of money right? Well only if you didn't lose the missiles>I love the 80s we had nintendo...now nobody has Nintendo...>Don't like sega or atari though only nintendo!>We had arcades! But arcades had no nintendo.This is why the 90s is better
>>12135185the scariest games I've ever played have all been first person games with mouse look. limiting turning speed is probably a good idea but it really was never a deal breaker for me, pretty inconsequential compared to the increased immersion of first person.
