Remember when Dynasty Warriors was good?
>>12135464is that a romhack? how are you playing as a non-hero? more importantly why would you want to?
>>12135478Cheat codes on emulator.>more importantly why would you want to?Fun or challenge
A dike?
>>12135506Oh no!
No.
>>12135464Dynasty Warriors 2-5 are all great
>>12135581Not a big fan of 2 but yes.5 is also leaning a bit too much into the numusou trend of making troops worthless but it does have the best Empires game.
Did anyone ever figure out the exact mechanics behind off screen battle simulation?It's known that most of the times units with highest morale stars will win but there seems to be more, and no accurate data can be found anywhere
>>121355952 is great because it's so difficult and unforgiving
>>12135464you can't remember things that never happened.
>>12135687I mean so is 3.Only thing 2 got above it is that you can only save inside a stage through the memory card item and only in the international version, actually didn't exist in the original.
>>12135649Decompile it and write a 16 page essay about it.
>>12135779>Decompile itNTA but yeah good fucking luck with that.
>>12135464i revisited the PS2 games after not having touched them since the 2000s>3a good midway point between 4 and 5. bodyguards are per-hero so you start with only 2 each new playthrough. you have weapon pickups which means there's less linearity in powering up your weapon/attacks vs. 4. pretty easy overall and you can play maps really however you like.>4the easiest between 3/4/5. bodyguards are independent of heroes so you can start a new playthrough with 8 elite guards which can make things very easy. has a lot more smaller maps, not really sure how i feel about it, but the weapon upgrades are linear which i think i like better.>5i actually played this for the first time this year. you can feel the series treading new ground here. you know only have 1 bodyguard but they're much more capable. not a fan of the different weapon speeds. i stuck with fast the entire time because medium/slow are just too slow for a game with this pace of combat. some of the maps are kind of annoying to complete. they really emphasize you going on your own and taking out officers far behind enemy lines which yes makes it harder but it feels too forced.>>12135687>it's so difficult and unforgivingno it's not it's fucking boring compared to later entries. it's essentially a beta/MVP of the PS2 era dynasty warriors formula. there is 0 reason (outside of inveterate autism/contrarianism) to ever play 2 again with the subsequent releases existing. it is simply an inferior game
>>12135843Did you play the base versions? Because I remember 3XL also allowed you to grind bodyguards on one officer, not sure if you could deploy 8 instantly tho.
>>12135649>Did anyone ever figure out the exact mechanics behind off screen battle simulation?Yes, years ago I read a huge breakdown of the calculations, I think it was specifically for 3Probably on Gfaqs still
>>12135871The Gfaq one exists but unfortunately it doesn't have much in the way of accurate data, only a lot of informed guesswork.
I hated the base system in 5, it really made every stage feel the same and made the ridiculous amount of musou modes even more tedious. 3 was the best, 4 was a sidegrade. Samurai Warriors 1 was also more interesting than 2, but both were mogged by Basara 2
>>12135887>it really made every stage feel the sameBut bases only existed in some stages for whatever reason.
Uhhh dynasty sisters? Did we just get BTFO?
>>12135856i only ever played the base ones. never touched XL/empires. XL i don't even know what those variants are and the empires ones i don't really like strategy stuff on consoles.
>>12135909>i'd rather beat up one polygon model 10,000 times than 10,000 polygon models 1 timeDamn...makes you think....
>>12135910Empires is the opposite way around, every map has bases because the gameplay is about taking territory before the boss shows up, or if you are defending it's about not losing your main camp.>>12135909>>>/v/Also>defenseless enemiesLoad up DW3 on Hard and see what happens. That started with 6, and also 5 to a lesser degree.
>>12135843>>4>the easiest between 3/4/55 is way easier than 4
>>12135887>I hated the base system in 5, it really made every stage feel the same and made the ridiculous amount of musou modes even more tedious.I really liked the base system when the game was new, but now I think it's annoying and slows battles down
>>12135960Chaos isn't, the game removes most healing items aside from the lowest possible and it spawns more rarely. You also need to go beyond a maxed character to beat the harder stages.
>>12135909Felted
>>12135975Oh and I forgot, you only get 1 bodyguard in DW5, the whole time. No savescumming either.It's tied with DW3 and possibily still wins out because nothing stops me from savescumming in the former or running away and kill easier enemy groups for healing.
I really, really wish DW8:Empires had some of the character funtionality or SW2:EmpiresStat progress and weapon stats not carrying over really ruined the game for me
>>12135464When people ask what Japslop is, I point them in the direction of Dynasty Warriors. One of the biggest shovelware franchises on the planet.
>>12136061I sure hope you are pointing them at games that weren't on PS2
>>12135960>5 is way easier than 4nah. 4 you can use your elite bodyguards and do whatever officer order on the map. very rarely did i ever have to worry about my commander getting into trouble.in 5 there's 2 specific instances i encountered where you had to play the map the correct way or you'd lose every single time. the lu bu map where he's in his castle, you need to run behind enemy lines and kill the officer guarding the dam to flood his castle, otherwise you will just always lose. 2 different times i killed most of their officers but my commander would always die. and then chang ban as wei, you pretty much need to make a beeline for liu bei and kill him asap because he moves extremely fast. this means ignoring pretty much all of the shu officers. also in general in 5 i found myself wandering around for health way more than in 3/4. many officers often will just ignore your guarding and their attacks land anyway. that's the one big flaw with these games on hard difficulty, not having defensive/recovery abilities really hurts.
>>12136085>not having defensive/recovery abilities really hurts.In 5 there are healslut bodyguards.>many officers often will just ignore your guardingI don't think that's possible? If anything 5 officers usually are smart enough to not start attacking you if you are blocking in front of them, they will jump behind or move to the side first.
>>12135903>>12135965>enter base>Steve Blum generic reminds you that you're in a base for the millionth time
>>12136158Should have got the undubbed rom
>>12135909We got the last laugh thanks to Koei adding DoA and NG characters in Orochi 3.
>>12136085>in 5 there's 2 specific instances i encountered where you had to play the map the correct way or you'd lose every single time. the lu bu map where he's in his castle, you need to run behind enemy lines and kill the officer guarding the dam to flood his castle, otherwise you will just always lose. 2 different times i killed most of their officers but my commander would always die. and then chang ban as wei, you pretty much need to make a beeline for liu bei and kill him asap because he moves extremely fast. this means ignoring pretty much all of the shu officersThis is nothing compared to nanman campaign on hard in DW4
No but then again I haven't played it much
Which stage did it better?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=323feK4tAhA>Shu army charging Sima Yi's camp at Wu Zhang Plains after all the other Wei officers are finally defeated
>>12136290yeah nanman is hard. first time back on the level i had like 2300 kills completely surrounded by them and they were still spawning. restarted since i figured i did something wrong and then i realized you had to advance yourself a way down the map to trigger your forces to move and not sit in the base and just wait to die.>>12136094>In 5 there are healslut bodyguards.i only ever used the default melee bodyguard, guess i should have tried out the others.>I don't think that's possible?it really feels like sometimes the game just ignores your guard stance and has officers able to hit you. it's inconsistent vs. theirs never breaking until they let it down. the games would have greatly benefited from a dodge/roll of some kind (not sure if there's new features in the post-2000s games).
>>12136628>yeah nanman is hard. first time back on the level i had like 2300 kills completely surrounded by them and they were still spawning. restarted since i figured i did something wrong and then i realized you had to advance yourself a way down the map to trigger your forces to move and not sit in the base and just wait to die.Easiest way to do nanman on harder difficulties is to grind 1000 kills because then you get a huge morale boost
>>12136290>>12136628The fact that the gate captains all revert to Nanman ones every time Meng Huo respawns AND the events to properly demoralize the enemy are so ridiculously strict that you sometimes can't even get them to trigger in the first place just makes it a slog even on Normal.Also>the Shu army is hot and sweat and wants to go home! EVERYONE LOST MORALE!>happens over and over
>>12137247That, or killing Meng Huo troops until their morale tanks so hard that your allies will be the ones getting high KO counts, eventually being able to self-sustain themselves and the checkpoints becoming beneficial as they keep feeding more kills, thus easier to maintain 8 star morale against the fatigue.Feels like that stage is only difficult if you don't know about morale mechanics, DW3 was worse with Yiling(Shu) causing all your allies to drop really fucking quickly and featuring 3 boosted enemy officers(commander not included) who also have their own lieutenants and will be eventually join together to gang up against Liu Bei.
>>12135595>but it does have the best Empires gameI was addicted to DW5 Empires for a long time.
>>12136094I've found the healer bodyguard only heals you if your health is in the red zone. Great for Hard, but on Chaos you usually go from yellow to dead near instantly unless you specced for defence for some reason. >>12136628I know a very small number of playable characters have the Light Orb equipped as NPCs (versus most with Fire or Ice), but I'm not sure if this also applies to generics.
>>12137491>I've found the healer bodyguard only heals you if your health is in the red zone.Not exactly but the heal triggers when you are fighting and they decide to use their healing move as opposed to attacking.Anyway Chaos is meant to be played on maxed out character including defense both from tortoise and the wepaon if possible. And the healslut being the only renewable source of healing will save your ass way more than what you would expect.
>>12136628Double post, but >the games would have greatly benefited from a dodge/roll of some kind (not sure if there's new features in the post-2000s games).SW1 and SW2 had a dodge roll that was pretty useful, especially if you had the skill that allowed you to cancel out of attacks by rolling. I think DW6S allowed roll cancelling by default.The Orochi games had jump cancel and air dash for Speed type characters well before DW7 did, and I recall the counter ability for Tech types being useful for most of the characters that had it.
Pick one and only one.also DW3 remaster better play somewhat closer to the real DW3, otherwise what's the fucking point?
>>12135464It was never good.
>>12137949The game in OP is quite good
>>12137937You can already see the movesets are the same, just some added particle effectsLikely a NG2B deal
>>12137979>You can already see the movesets are the sameI can, but I also saw them hitting like 30 enemies at once when the most you could do in the PS2 game is maybe 10.
>>12137937The smaller oneI don't care about the remaster will just keep playing the original.
>>12137983That's because the PS2 could only render 10 at a time. From 2 to 5 they were constantly trying to increase the enemy count on screen to look like a real army. What's funny is that the rest of those troops were still technically there, they were just invisible, so you could be hit by one, your combo interrupted, and not even know who the fuck it was, but you could not hit them back until you killed someone else to make space on screen to render him.The numbers don't matter as much as the feedback though.
Only the first game, and it's because it was a mediocre fighting game. The rest are mowing down endless hordes of retards with no skill or reasoning behind it.
>>12138010
>>12138010>That's because the PS2 could only render 10 at a time.Pretty sure it's around or less than 30 in DW3, but by DW5 they can go up to 40+.>The numbers don't matter as much as the feedback though.Yeah agreed, the real dealbreaker will be whether the troops can actually fight back. I don't expect exactly the same aggressiveness because if they did that it would be unplayable with more troops on screen, but at least trying to replicate the same feel as opposed to DW6-9 style.>>12138014Not even true for DW2, let alone 3 on Hard.
>>12138029They did a great job with Origins, I loved that the demo completely filtered a ton of people who thought it would be the cakewalk they always heard DW was, which directly lead to it being the biggest seller for DW since 4.I think Sho, the current lead of the series, knows what he is doing.
>>12138039>I think Sho, the current lead of the series, knows what he is doing.There's some hope since he mentioned things like wanting to keep the strong bowman enemies and focus a little more on the tactical aspect of the gameplay(guessing it means old morale system/less scripted stages are back?)
>>12138039I hated Origins because it doesn't feel like Dynasty Warriors anymore.
>>12138043The stages are definitely less scripted in the new one, and the morale system is back but it's not the same as the old one. Definitely going in the right direction. Interesting that he was also the guy behind DW6, which was largely despised, so he is either really good at learning from mistakes, or he didn't get to make DW6 the way he really wanted it to be, probably due to Koei wanting it out as fast as possible to be on the next gen consoles.
>>12138059> and the morale system is back but it's not the same as the old oneOld one worked better until it didn't and yes I mean Yiling
It's a shame the Basara series didn't also try a Three Kingdoms title
>>12138072Everything works great until it's used against you
>>12138080Goes both ways if you play on the easiest difficulty, that map is just really weird. Watch the reverse happen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dFDGv9t6no
>>12138091I love watching the troops move around the map when I clear some roadblock general for them
Someone finally did a pretty good breakdown of DW's combat depth after all these yearshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdiDHuTUuVM&list=PLEq7ANGRTSgI6v3FS5rIOQ-KEQQ9G8Ilb&index=43&t=59s
>>12138091>2:30+ minutes of uninterrupted message spam>entire army evaporating into nothing until the bridge with the archersJesus Christ how horrifying
>>12138139This actually happens to your allies on Very Hard btw
I never liked leveling up weapons in 4, and really hated the "skill trees" from 6 onwards. I like random drops and equippable items.
>>12138043It will probably still be watered down to make it easier for casuals
>>12138198NG2 remaster was notOrigins was not
>>12138124There's a bit more I got from these Yiling testing videos:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMcAn6Z25AE>there is a group HP value, the officers contribute only 400 of it, the rest if their guard troops>your attack stat makes your allies also harder to kill>but your defense stat makes your allies easier to kill(cause it gives more attack to the enemies and they have better base stats on anything but Easy)
>>12137496been thinking about trying the other musou games. i've only ever played the dynasty warriors ones. what are the best ones?
>>12138124very cool thanks for the video. a lot of that is pretty self-evident after playing the games for extended periods but still, shit like this is why i still visit /vr/: people bringing attention to in-depth resources like this.one thing i'd like to understand more about though: how they determined all the off-screen battle stuff i.e. one of the officers on your side across the map reaches 50 KOs. the PS2 obviously wasn't strong enough to run the battles you can't see in real time so there has to have been something.
>>12138567>how they determined all the off-screen battle stuff i.e. one of the officers on your side across the map reaches 50 KOs. the PS2 obviously wasn't strong enough to run the battles you can't see in real time so there has to have been something.Off-screen processing is very different than what you see on-screen. Short answer is that what's going on is literally only stuff around you. As in, if you had bird's eye camera and could zoom out, the rest of the physical map would be completely empty. We have to look at the minimap then.First off, each dot you see on the normal minimap(not the zoomed one) represents a group of 5 people or an officer with their bodyguards. They share a group HP value, you can see roughly how it works in this video: >>12138290Each army has either a fixed route and will fight whatever stands in their way, or have assigned targets to chase. These change whenever certain conditions are achieved(e.g. the target is defeated, switch to another target) or according to some battle events. Collision isn't the same either, the dots can phase through some obstacles and walls, just not map borders usually. Height doesn't exist either, so for instance infantry can fight against archers stationed on the towers/building off-screen.As for how the fight works, when the dots glow yellow they are hitting each other. The damage and attack frequency depends on the difference in morale, and in DW3 also the player stats(if you want more info on that, same channel has https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRWjH0lMs8U ). The army with lower morale always loses, always, no exceptions. They straight up cannot kill a higher morale unit, so it's only a matter of how fast they lose.Boulders and terrain damage also exist off-screen.
>>12138512Basara 2 and up, Samurai Warriors 1 and 2, Warriors Orochi seriesDynasty Warriors Gundam is a good one too
>>12138512Samurai warriors 1 and 2
>>12138628>>12139230Don't forget SW2Empires.Improved version of DW5Empires in terms of gameplay, but I wish it was the other way around.
>>12138124This video missed a few things:>morale isn't 0 to 8, but more specifically 0.01 to 8.99, you will see how that's relevant soon enough >50 KOs aren't a coinflip, you are simply gaining +0.5 morale so the game doesn't tell you until that amounts to a full +1 star>it's better to wait for your allies to engage the enemy units, because the morale gain from defeating officers will be given to ally units in a fight with that unit too>enemies have passive morale regeneration but only after the floating point, so they can go from 4.00 to 4.99 by doing nothing, but they will have to do something such as defeating one if your subofficers to gain the 5th star. Your allies do not have this>there's a random morale boost given to enemy units once you actually start the stage, not talking about the one you can check during briefing, there's another small one, around +0.22And the game uses this number for off screen calculations so if two units are at the same amount of stars, let's say 4, it's more likely the enemy is still winning.
Post you're main>Tiger general>autistically focused on justice like a chuuni anime character>uses historically the best weapon (Spear)>fucking gold dragon armorYeah, I'm thinking about booting up DW3 again and smoking about a trillion ground troups and 10s of thousands of generals.
>>12140346I like triple digits combo numbers and cute&funny girls.
>>12140346wei: zhang liaoshu: guan yuwu: zhou tai
>>12140346
Played 5 for the first time recently and absolutely loved it, which should I play next?
>>121410264 or 3Or SW2
>>12137462Why'd you stop the fire attack? When you stop it, Liu Bei doesn't retreat. You want him to retreat into the stone maze. This significantly slows down the enemies and funnels them. You'll also have Zhuge Liang spawn in with reinforcements. Always let the fire attack happen.
>>12138091That's because the difficulty you play on also effects the starting morale of all officers. If you play on Hard, your officers start with less morale, while your enemies start with more. So your allies will lose the offscreen fights on hard, while they'll likely win them on easy.
>>12140894I always wondered why the designers adapted the characters the way they did. I'm guessing it's by exaggerating some key traits but it's still funny to me: Wei Yan's a savage, Lu Xun's a twink, Dian Wei's bald.
>>12138124>>12138290Neat vids. I wonder if this also apply to Warriors Orochi 1
>Orochi Empires nevermoney on the table
What should I be doing in samurai warriors 2? like I assume you want to steal officer skills but it seems like a waste without buying all the common ones, but income from story mode is pretty low and the late missions really drag on and can easily fail from trap morale death with bad damage output
>>12141510>it's still funny to meIt's not funny to me. It's the one thing I dislike the most about the entire franchise. It's supposed to be about war and conquest and then you have haha so silly joke chacters. Fags and obese morons. And it only got worse as the series went on. Xu chu was almost ok in the beginning, but wei yan for example never was. My other big gripe is armor design that stick out too much and feel out of place. Like Cao ren's armor never looked good or appropriate for the era. All in all I think dw would be better if they used designs more similar to the ROTK strategy games. Thanks for reading my blog post.
>>12142308DESU, SW2 feels like a game where you're supposed to grind outside of story mode for a bit if it's your first time on Normal difficulty. As you said, it's too easy to fall into a death spiral where you can't defeat enemies quickly enough to stop your allies getting overwhelmed, plus SW2 in particular can sometimes be really obnoxious with stage design where you need to protect multiple commanders.
>>12142349You are overthinking it.It's a cool game about having a lot of people fighting on screen first and foremost, and for PS2 games at least it has a very light strategy element regarding how to make sure your allies stay up
>>12141897Warriors Orochi uses the same system as Samurai Warriors 2 iirc.Now if you asked how that works exactly, not sure. Probably not that different from DW with a few minor adjustements.
>>12142308Make sure you do the missions they give you to keep your sides morale up
>>12142349Those designs are way more interesting than making every character look like some twinky anime faggot like the newer games do
>>12140894Don't care what anyone says, Chinese Caveman Wolverine Wei Yan is a 10/10 design
>>12142349They didn't come off as silly joke characters to me except Xu Zhu. Yeah, that one was bad.>duhr foodHe did at least have a badass moment like saving Cao Cao.Fact of the matter is that with video games you have to embellish the fuck out of the characters otherwise you're not going to be as successful. That's literally what RoTK did, Xiahou Dun didn't actually say that shit about his parents before eating his eye, there's no record of him eating his eye at all and Lu Bu didn't shoot an arrow through his halberd but he did die like a bitch.
>>12143137>and Lu Bu didn't shoot an arrow through his halberdThat one is on record, faggot
>>12143164Well he's still a faggot so whatever.
