>you don't get it random encounters exists because of limitations!No really, why didn't a single retro jrpg have Z2 style encounters?
>>12137938Ultima III did
>>12137938because they were incapable of making an actual game with combat so they just ported tabletop diceroll shit to the game
>>12137981As if Zelda 2 has good combat with that micro dick "sword"
>>12137938>>you don't get it random encounters exists because of limitations!This argument has always sounded retarded because games like Hydlide, Zelda and Ys are as old as Dragon Quest
>>12137938It's a deliberate design decision like save points and small inventories.
Because they wanted you to be forced into encounters.
>>12138031Giving kids a single save anywhere save is a recipe for softlocks
>>12137938Guardian's Crusade did
>>12138004zelda 2 isn't perfect but its entire combat system has more depth than 4 niggas in a row
>>12138065Shame it's still a dog shit game. >But so is-I don't care about your jrpg hate boner, faggot.
RPG fight are about resource management If you dodge every encounter ,you don't engage with the game design
>>12138170Zelda 2 has the best fighting system of any Zelda
>>12138170and i don't care for your blind jarpig loyalty weeb faggot
>small monster -> average encounter>large monster -> harder encounter>on the road -> no encounter>different tiles/areas -> different monsters>swamp tiles -> s l o wZelda II had an excellent overworld system. We don't really give it enough respect.
>>12138170Zelda 2 is an amazing ARPG, especially for 1987
>>12137938>No really, why didn't a single retro jrpg have Z2 style encounters?Because random encounters are superior.
They were copying Wizardry
>>12137938Didn't help because it's hard to avoid the enemies.
>>12137978Kek. What a pleb.
>>12138065Even DQ1 has more options and strategy than Z2 which is just basically hit their weak points with your tiny sword
>>12137938>why didn't a single retro jrpg have Z2 style encounters?dragon slayer eiyuu densetsu had this system. In the first game they made it so enemies were invisible in the overworld without an item or a spell but they were still there and you could avoid them (when going through small valleys though no chance you get swarmed). In the second game and later you could just see them and skip them if you wanted.
>>12138178>>12138228>>12138197Nope, still shit. You shitting jrpgs or better Zelda games in a desperate attempt to pull everything below it's level won't ever change that. It's legacy is forever rightfully seen as bad.
>>12138518>It's legacy is forever rightfully seen as bad.It was well regarded when it came out
>>12137978op btfo
>>12137938>doesn't move>monsters still spawnand that was on top the move trigger AND the random encounter in forests
>>12137938Every game hadn't merged into one genre yet.
>>12138535>when it came outWho gives a fuck. Time has decided it was actually underwhelming and shit (which it is). Lots of crap was regarded good at the time but is now rightfully seen as shit once we know better
>>12138535if it was so well regarded, why did Nintendo never go back to that formula?
>>12138205I remember thinking it was cool how putting the wolfman as your party lead in Breath of Fire let you walk through wooded areas. I never got into that series so I don't know if they ever expanded that mechanic in later ones.
>>12139668They did with Link's Awakening and Echoes of Wisdom.
>>12139664>Time has decided it was actually underwhelmingMost people who still play 8 bit games think it's good. Even AVGN said he was surprised people actually disliked the game in his old review
>>12138004I'm not a fan of that aspect either, but my biggest gripe with Zelda II is that that sword is the only weapon you get. Yes, I know about the spells, but in a Zelda game, I expect to have more weapons to use than just one sword.
>>12137938Earthbound
>>12140282>Appeal to authority Still a trash game and people still hate it.
>>12140314>>Appeal to authorityI meant that even the guy who is supposed to trash everything, especially something that's generally regarded as bad by most people, didn't trash the game. So yeah people who played it back in the days thought it was good. Seriously you guys always talk about 'revisionism' and Zelda 2 is when this shit is unironically the case
>>12139668The Wand of Gamelon and The Faces of Evil were both sidecrolling Zelda's like The Adventure of Link.
>>12140302Dont you get the master sword in it? Albeit with the same attack range.
>>12140302It would have been cool to actually use the hammer in combat or the boomerang or bow
>>1213803790% of players regardless of age would never have beaten FFT if it had one save slot.
>>12140406Nope. Master Sword was ALttP, and the Magic Sword was only in the first game.You just level up your butter knife to deal more damage in 2.
>>12138518>It's legacy is forever rightfully seen as bad.OoT's combat is heavily based on AoL's, just in a slightly different perspective and with the difficulty tone down.OoT in general has a ton of Zelda II references. Nintendo clearly had no issue with the game.
>>12137938what limitations? can someone explain this to a brainlet
>>12141081the OP is arguing with a person they invented in their head, and then posted it on the internet. its normal for you to be confused.
It's pretty interesting in Zelda 2 how Nintendo put a MANDATORY dark cave right at the start of the game, and the lantern item afterwards. Not that avoiding 1 Nausicaa bug is hard, but it feels very distinctly non-Nintendo to do something like that by today's standards.
>>12141097Multiple anti-random encounter faggots have made this argument, doe.
>>12141097No, someone did make a post saying that the other day. I responded to it myself. Don't know why you'd make a thread about it though.
>>12137978lmao, zelda 2 directly copied ultima iii, japs and op btfo yet again
>>12141414lmao Zelda and FF utterly dwarfed the popularity of those games in their own home countries. Westoids btfo yet again.
>>12141271I wonder if it's there solely to tell the players who didn't explore the other caves pre-candle that the candle does have function in lighting up caves.you wouldn't be aware of that, otherwise and would miss its purpose, possibly leading players to avoid picking it up if they restart the game.
>>12141419>in their own home countriesWhich no one cares about except for them...And they were still influenced by Ultima 3 ultimately.
>>12141424I actually meant "country" meaning America. FF and Zelda are more popular in America than Wizardry or Ultima ever was. And for good reason.
>>12141419>lmao Zelda and FF utterly dwarfed the popularity of those gamesand? ultima is the father of multiple genres, it being the most influential video game series is undeniable. >Westoidsyou mean japs? playing western games and copying them?
>>12141445No, I mean westoids. Americans failed to capture the market while Japanese derivatives became worldwide beloved phenomenons. Sucks to suck.
>>12141447doom is pretty much a product of ultima, lol. the first succesful mmo was a product of ultima. sounds like you don't know much about vidya.>No, I mean westoids.you do know -oid means "like something but not it", right? like androids aren't men. japs are westoid in that they took on western values and modalities but aren't western.
>>12141451Don't care about your gay made up tranny insult lmao.
>>12141452ah, i accept your concession.quick and tasty. :)
>>12141453>quick and tasty. :)Just like the last load you swallowed.
>>12141427>I actually meant "country" meaning America. FF and Zelda are more popular in America than Wizardry or Ultima ever was. And for good reason.And The Witcher is more popular than both of those franchises combined...???Your point?
>>12141463No it isn't you delusional polack. Fucking lmao.
>>12141467Oh, really? Top selling Zelda game, at its peak: Breath of the Wild at 34 million units.Top selling FF game, at its peak: FFIV at 24 million units.Witcher 3 sales? 60 million units. It's bigger than both those franchises top selling releases, at their peaks. Cope and seethe retarded weaboo, or in your own words, "sucks to suck".
>>12141457>semen is tastyi'll take your word for it, lol.
>>12141475>pic related: not relatedYou'll have to post actual proof, dumb polack.
>>12141478quick and tasty :)
>>12141479Not polish.>post proofhttps://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/software/switch.htmlhttps://www.ign.com/articles/final-fantasy-14-24-million-players-most-profitablehttps://www.cdprojekt.com/en/media/news/cd-projekt-wraps-up-the-beginning-of-2025/Cue the excuses and dilating.
>>12140302Shame there wasn't and never will be a 'Zelda 2' 2
>>12141492>https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/finance/software/switch.htmlWhere are the Ultima and Wizardry entries? Or do you even understand what the conversation is?
>12141463Mental illness, just embarrassing
>>12141475Well shit, I don’t care about sales and it’s not retro, but this comparison immediately is just silly because BoW is only available on Wii U and Switch while Witcher is available on Switch and countless other platforms. The fact it’s more than half of Witcher 3’s sales off that alone looks bad for the Witcher.
>>12141505>pretends to engage with my post when I blow you the fuck out>disengages the moment he's proven wrong and then circles back around to my original point of contentionAnd The Witcher is more popular than both of those franchises combined...???Wizardry and Ultima were objectively more important and influential. Popularity doesn't mean shit. People will still eventually trace those games back to their source, which is exactly what they've done now, which is why we're still talking about Ultima and Wizardry now, 40 years later.
>>12141520Nigger, you just posted multiple links which you thought would win your argument, yet they're completely irrelavant. You're a malfunctioning bot at best. Final response.
>>12141515>The fact it’s more than half of Witcher 3’s sales off that alone looks bad for the Witcher.Sad and pathetic cope. Breath of the Wild is on one of the best selling consoles of all time. I'd certainly hope it could muster at least 30 million copies.
>>12141524Yeah, but if you reread what I posted, you’d know that Witcher 3 is on that very same console, along with many others.
>>12141523>my links which prove the sales I just claimed are irrelevant to the post that literally just told me to prove itYou're one retarded brownoid.
>>12141530He's now resorting to pilpul.
>>12141515>i-i-i-it's less popular than the witcher 3! this actually makes the witcher 3 looks bad!Imagine being a nintoddler.
>>12141524>>12141532Learn how to read
>>12141531Oh look, ad hominem.
>>12141538Oh look, a jew.
weebs aren't sending their best. ;)
>>12141529It's not a mainstream Nintendo franchise designed to appeal to their specific cornered market. Manchildren who buy switches generally aren't very interested in non-Nintendo properties. It's why the top 23 games on the system are all published by Nintendo.>>12141536Learn to think.
>>12141540>gets anally detroyed>"Y-Y-YOU'RE A JEW!"And you're a tranime weeb.
>>12141549>tranimeWow, you surely aren't a transsexual golem eunuch who got tricked by jews into cult behavior that destroyed his entire life! No sir!
>>12141550>you surely aren't a transsexual golem eunuch who got tricked by jews into cult behavior that destroyed his entire life! No sir!Uh...Thank you.
>>12141554Yep, definitely isn't explaining you to a T.
>>12141559Yea, I know, thanks!
>>12141560>75 IQ brown tranny commie can't into sarcasm
>>12141562>NO U!Excellent comeback.
>>12141563
I thought overworld monsters was a thing in Ultima 1. Also, yeah, no shit that Zelda and other games owe a ton to Ultima, I thought everyone knew that by now. The best spell in Final Fantasy is literally called Ultima.
>>12141645I thought whites understood what jews are, but I was mistaken.
Back in the day trolls owned others, now retards think getting owned is being a troll.
>>12137938>>12137978Ultima 1 and Hydlide did as well, both of which predate and inspired Zelda 1.
>>12137978Ultima and Wizardry have most of everything we have in RPGs now.
>>12142416Man, I only read the first few posts before posting this, and now have read the thread and I'm not sure how this became about the jews.
>>12141427>FF and Zelda are more popular in America than Wizardry or Ultima ever was. And for good reason.The reason being console gaming was far more widespread and cheaper than PC gaming was.
>>12137938Random encounters are a great way to simulate the danger of moving through monster-infested lands, and also a source of attrition to pressure the player party by draining their resources. If the enemies are visible on the overmap and you can easily run past them, then it's pointless, and actively makes the monsters seem like less of a threat, even if they have the stats to easily wipe you out in a fight. It's much better to let the player block random encounters with weak enemies by casting repel or using holy water, or to reduce overall random encounter rate by using a sneak skill from a thief/rogue class party member, since these options are limited by mp/item cost and don't offer guaranteed immunity against hard encounters.
>>12142442Removing them definitely change what the game is quite a bit. And, I think, the general view of them that seems prevalent these days, is a part of the larger move towards games being easier. Or, at least, to make more of the game optional. A greater focus on the forward thrust of the story to be the point, rather then the action required to get through that story.
>>12142404Wheren't they only on computers though? I thought the question was whether it was easy to implement on the NES.
>>12142504Hydlide was on Famicom. It was also on NES, but the NES version was pretty terrible.
>>12137938Try Armed Dragon Fantasy Villgust. The random encounters are fought sidescroller style with each character in your party. Fan translation is functional, but not great.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pfAyyc09KA example of a battle less than a minute into this video.
>>12141427It's because ol' Dick Garriott sold out. Sad!
>>12139694i didn't really like BoF but it had several interesting overworld mechanics like that. i especially liked overworld hunting with the bowman character
>>12137938they all did, they just didn't show you the enemy sprite
>>12142883>random encounters are fought sidescroller style with each character in your partyOh like Super Monkey Daibouken?
>>12142968I suppose. I only ever saw Super Monkey Daibouken on GCCX, and it looks like a broken POS compared to Villgust. But there could be similarities.
I really like Wild ARMS 3 giving you the option to skip encounters occasionally if you are focusing on exploring. Idk why other games dont use this, maybe it makes the games too short or its some kind of patent bullshit but its much more preferable to WA1 forcing an encounter every 5 steps when youre already overleveled.I kind of hate most retro jrpgs now because some of them have insanely high encounter rates as well.And then you have games like Phantasy Star which is fine but the dungeons are so big and similar that encounters only exist to make you lose your sense of direction.Anyway I dont thinks its a coincidence that jrpgs with visible encounters are reviewed more favorably and revisited more often (CT, Tales)Random encounters still have a place but I would make them suprise attacks only so the threat is always there
