In the previous thread I submitted the idea of doing a playthrough only using Guardsmen/Dragoons, Monks/Ninjas and Hawknights/Sky Lords, meaning no Bishop/Archibishop, no Bowmen/Snipers and no Swordsmen/Duelist. I couldn't get this idea out of my head so I went and did it. As an extra rule I also prevented myself from saving/loading within a stage (no reloading if something goes grow), though I did reset if I lost units too early in the mission. And also kill every enemy and try to kille very item. I did allow myself the use items especially for spell casting items to compensate a bit. Finally I did go through all the Trials but I went without upgrading Ash to Vandalier since that makes things too easy. Then once I beat the final stage I upgraded him to Vandalier, redid the final stage, so I could unlock the post game and then proceeded to do the post game while ignoring Ash altogether (except for that one mission where he's solo obviously)Of course I did it in the Saturn version so I could use the extra spells Ash and Ninjas get, they helped a LOT in the late game considering there were my only means of long range attacks. Anyway I did it. There were a lot of INSANE moments especially due to the fact that I couldn't reload so I had to own it when an enemy parried or paralyzed/poisoned me. Now I wonder if others agree on what would be the ultimate build, and my conclusion would be (next post)
Why did Konami decide to change the formula between the two games?Vandal Heart 2 isn't fun: you can guess the enemy move, but it's not interesting, and the whole class autism is pointless.What a shame,
>3 Swordsmen/DuelistsGuardsmen have their uses, there were quite a few moments in my playthrough where they shined with their ability to OHKO enemies that would take 2 hits from a Swordman. But their limited movement fucking SUCKS in so many situations, and it's not just the fact that they can only move 5 tiles as opposed to 6, the worse offender on top of that is that they get slowed down if there are steps or rough terrains such as small rocks or weeds on an otherwise plane ground. Yes, even small pebbles or herbs that looks purely decorative that you never paid attention to in fact slow down Guardsmen (as well as big enemies units like Golems).>2 Hawkmen / 2 BowmenAll the guides recommend 3 Bowmen but I disagree. You need at least 1 Hawkman if you want to get all the Trials and access the post game content; but a single Hawkman is too easy a target. Sending 2 Hawkmen together helps a lot in keeping them safe as enemies.As for who gets to be what, again I disagree with guides who tend to recommend getting Hawkmen last; I'd get a Hawkman at the first possible occassion and I'd say Diego is best suited. Then Kira should be a Bowman so he can stay back, she tends to have 1-2 less HP/Def than the others and that's enough for enemies to prefer targetting her as a priority, so it's best if she stays back. Also in the boat mission at the start of chapter 5 you get her back without possibility for upgrading until after 5-1 is done, and if you have her as an Hawkman there she'll be totally useless or die too easily in that mission.>2 SorcerersEleni and Zohar, that's a given. They REALLY, REALLY lose important abilities such as Phase Shift if they go the Ninja routes. Zohar specifically is ATROCIOUS as a Ninja, pic related, he doesn't have Healing Wave when everyone else does, stuck with Healing Circle (which by the end game only heals about 75HP), and on top of that while all the other Ninjas get a long range damaging spells at lvl 27, instead he gets Sweet Dream,
>>12138298(cont)Sweet Dream which is a paralisis spell. Now, it can target a while group of enemies (iirc it's 3x3) however it's always a coin flip whether paralisis will miss or not, and I don't think it works on bosses at all.So Zohar gets no late game healing and no late game damaging spell. What a rip off.>1 Ninja / 1 ArchbishopI don't think you need more than one Archbishop. As for whether that should be Huxley or Sara, I've always used Huxley, but in reality it's better to have Sara be the archbishop and Huxley be the Ninja.Huxley's late game Archbishop damaging spell is Shining Core, which targets a huge field, but it costs a whooping 30 MP (!), half of his late game MP pool, and the damage output isn't even that good. Meanwhile, as a Ninja he gets Killer Skeleton, which is a long range spell targetting a single enemy which does a lot of damage (around 100 base damage) and only costs 4 MP!And for Sara it's the contrary, as a Ninja she gets Astral Fire, which *is* probably the strongest spell in the game all with exceptional range, but it costs 15 MP to use which again is half her MP pool as ninja, so the use is very limited. Meanwhile, as an Archibishop, she gets Runout Peak, another single targetting long range spell, dmg ouput is only above average at best (not as good as Killer Skeleton) but it only costs 4 MP so you actually get to use it.
>>12138292I did enjoy 2 a lot, but it took quite an investment from me in order to enjoy it. First of all the intro chapter is boring and it's long, way too long. The fun only starts after that.Then it was only after many hours that I finally understood how the AI opponent operated and all the mechanics worked, and it's only once I understood all the mechanics that I finally started to have fun.Some pointers>when the AI can't attack, it always moves its units in the same order, usually by small groups. This is misleading because it makes you believe there is a set order in the way the AI moves its unit but that's wrong, it *can* move units in any order.Then, the order in which it does things is:>if possible the AI *always* prioritizes healing its own troups over attacking you>then if possible, it will target units that it can kill in one hit>finally, whenever possible it will position itself in order to hit your unit's backFinally, when 2 units collide if they attempt to go on the same tile at the same time, the heavier unit will push off the other unit and prevent it from attacking altogether.There are other rules but if you understand these principles it's enough to enjoy the simultaneous game system. In the end though VH2 is too easy imo, while one of the best things about 1 is precisely how tight balancing is. But I really like how you can basically have any unit be any 'class' and even change 'class' at any time or even give 2 different roles to the same unit at once with 2 different weapons instead of specializing. The freedom is nice.
>>12138292>Why did Konami decide to change the formula between the two games?It's the norm in videogame industry - usually (which means there are exceptions) devs need to add changes to the next title of the series just to sell it as a new product. Sometimes these changes are minimal, sometimes these changes are drastic.Based on criticism VH1 got on release>people didn't like its linearity and lack of optional characters / content (I guess Trials of Toroah weren't enough)>people couldn't find much replayability to the game (again, due to linearity of the game and how little player's actions affect your party - each character has only two classes and these classes are shared among other characters)>story foreshadowed the upcoming plot twists in incredibly obvious ways (and because of game's linearity there was no room left for surprises)Saturn version kinda tried to fix the "lack of optional content" issues by adding a bunch of postgame maps, but it clearly didn't help.Based on data I've found on the internet, VH1 sold only ~100k copies in US while FFT (a game that came out a year later) sold ~750k copies in US. This was probably the reason VH2 went for Tactics Ogre + FFT approach with aesthetics, story and even gameplay aspect (while still trying to do something new by itself).The sad irony is that VH2 sold even less than VH1 and people compained that VH2 was too different compared to VH1. So yeah, people compain if you keep things way too simple... and people complain if you change things way too much.>>12138298I always knew Swordsman was better than Guardsman but damn Guardsman designs fucking rock - just look at Dolan being a walking dreadnought.
>>12138370>I always knew Swordsman was better than Guardsman but damn Guardsman designs fucking rock - just look at Dolan being a walking dreadnought.Indeed>Saturn version kinda tried to fix the "lack of optional content" issues by adding a bunch of postgame maps, but it clearly didn't help.imo they're a bit too easy and some of the maps are very low effort too. But what I dislike about the post game is that it can only be unlocked if you've upgraded Ash to Vandalier, beating the 6 Trials isn't enough, you need to advance Ash too. And obviously Vandalier Ash is so broken he could solo every single post game map. They should have allowed the post game without Vandalier as possibility (and change the map Wasteland which whole point is that you have to solo it with Vandalier Ash).IMO an ideal post game would be challenges with a set of given tools/characters/classes not of the player's choosing and which do not necesarilly correspond to what the player had in the main game. For example have a map where you have to make do with 3 guardsman, 2 ninjas, and non Vandalier Ash.
tl;dr my thoeretical ultimate build would be >AshAsh>ClintSwordsman>DiegoHawknight>EleniSorcerer>HuxleyMonk>KiraBowoman>GrogSwordsman>DolanSwordsman>AmonBowman>SaraBishop>ZoharSorceror>DariusHawknight
>>12138354Thanks for the effort posting, anon. Sadly, I tried the game a bit and really didn't enjoy it at all. Everything is a turn-off: the weapons/skill system, the portraits, the new gameplay, the classes...Glad other people enjoy it, but I'm never booting the game again.
>>12138370>VH1 sold only ~100k copies in US while FFT (a game that came out a year later) sold ~750k copies in US.to be fair, FFT released after FF7 had brought a substantial amount of brand recognition to the series for PSX owners, so by default an SRPG in a brand new series is going to be fighting an uphill battle in comparison sales wise. definitely not the only explanation for VH's weaker sales, but it's a valid one>>12138475same deal for me. i'm not even a particularly big VH1 fan, but i enjoyed the game well enough. the changes that 2 brought in were just unappealing to me, so i'll likely never bother finishing it
I was going to effortpost some of the highlights from my playthrough but the site won't let me, giving me internal server error 500 for some reasons. Neither the image or the text go over the allowed limits and this post is going through so I have no idea what's going on
Seriously wtf, has 4chan become twitter
>>12140065At least people are actually discussing games in a civil manner in these Vandal Hearts threads.
What's the actual code for Advance Mode in VH2?
>>12140130It's on gamefaqshttps://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/199180-vandal-hearts-ii/cheatsI have a 100% save if you need one. Considering how I thought VH2 was too easy advanced mode might be interesting, let me know how it goes. Not sure I'd want to restart a 60+ hours game right now however.
>>12138314I usually make Sara my ninja because I think she looks rad. I really wish they were was more art from this game in general though.
These portraits look like ass with the dumb blue-grey background
>>12138370>I guess Trials of Toroah weren't enoughYou can very easily go through the entire game without knowing it even exists.
>>12138370>>people couldn't find much replayability to the game (again, due to linearity of the game and how little player's actions affect your party - each character has only two classes and these classes are shared among other characters)Honestly I think the overall brevity and linearity of the game makes it all the more replayable. I suppose having more freedom or customization would be nice in a lot of ways but as it is the game is just, for want of a better term, playable. I can replay it over and over again not because I can experiment or do something drastically different but just because I simply like it. I can get to my favorite stage quickly. I can enjoy the plot at my leisure. It doesn't overwhelm you with mechanics, with long cut scenes, everything is just nice and to the point. And I think it is, in most regards, stronger for it across the board. Far too often I'll think of a game I really like, a moment I would really love to see again or a character I want on my team and forget that it's all some 30 or more hours in. If I thought to myself, man I'd love to see that train again I would bee there in less time it takes to change discs in another over long game.
>>12141948I had no idea he could kill himself. I love little things like this maybe a dozen or two players in the history of the game naturally found.
>>12141958Yeah, it's pretty neat. Vandal Hearts on the whole honestly has some of the most interesting maps in the genre I think.
>>12141948I just did this map and it was hilarious to see everyone but like 3 characters die.Lame that the boss says nothing if I blow him up on the bridge.
Also wanted to rant.Dragoon is so bad.Barely has move and honestly not particularly tanky or hard hitting.Grog is my only Dragoon and the last few chapters, particularly the train and rescue Kira ones he fought no one.He needs any lead he can get but since you cant rearrange their position, he tends to never catch on.Whats the point of this class?
>>12141992the good news is that level scaling works in a weird way that if he falls too far behind you can have him use a herb or a mage oil on a higher level one and he'll fly up levels. There's a sort of early level grinding trick were on the fight before Magnus the objective is to reach a point. There's a couple of MP recharge points so you can have Hux and Sara cast shield and attack up constantly to slowly grind them and if you have someone else use an item on them after words it's XP city.>Whats the point of this class?Super high defense I suppose but even with that I always found it better to kill an enemy before it has a chance to be a threat
>>12141992Guardsman/Dragoon IS very strong against certain type of units. In my guardsman playthrough I noticed that there are plenty of units they can OHKO that would take 2 hits from a swordsman, in fact, that actually caught me off guard and in the situation in pic related lead to me the Guardman's death>a first skeleton comes to hit him>he OHKOs it>a Golem comes to hit him>Guardsman still alive with 5 HP left>ANOTHER skeleton comes to finish him off but only because there was still room for him to attack due to the first skeleton that attacked dyingThat's what I wasn't expecting, I knew 2 enemies would come to hit him but I knew he'd survive 2 hits. I didn't expect him to actually OHKO the skeleton which would lead to opening the way for a third hit.Now mind you, a swordsman wouldn't have OHKOd the skeleton but it'd still be dead in this situation, but from only 2 hits and not 3.but as I said their slow movement sucks ass indeed, especialy if there are steps
as a side note, I never really cared for increase defense due to type of terrains in this game (unlike other games like Advance Wars/Fire Emblem etc) but it actually can make a huge difference. Here I had an enemy Golem sitting on a healing spring which is shown to have 30% defense, it lead to my characters only dealing 3-5 dmg against it and even my Guardsmen only dealt 12 dmg (instead of around 40 in a 0% situation). That Golem was basically invicible except from spells.
This stage is probably the stage where Guardsmen/Dragoon shined the most. They are perfect for these type of situations.
In this stage they could OHKO those yellow golems too and again it's a bottleneck stage which doesn't require long range movement so it's another level perfect for them.With that said this stage is a giant nothing burger so it doesn't really matter.
Another stage where a Dragoon is perfect for the job, see where Grog (brown Dragoon) stands, he can just sit there guards everyone and wait for most enemies in the stage to come at it (yes I knew Darius could get hit too, I moved him after taking the screenshot). Then, for the rest of the enemies I could advance just 3 steps and cover with 2 Dragoon instead of just Grog
Unrelated: enemy mages like to stay just 1 tile out of range of your units while blasting them with damaging spells. If your archers can't dispose of them, paralyzing them can be very useful although it's a coin flip whether it will work (though you have both Eleni and Zohar who can just Spellbind + you find 2 Madness Book items in the game)
