How big of a deal was Final Fantasy's sudden and unexpected exclusivity to PlayStation?
>>12139608Why don't you give us your theory on why?
>>12139608It wasn’t just FF. T”Nearly the entire Console RPG genre was exclusive to PSX.
>>12139608Wasn't at all. Snes being beloved for Jrpgs was a Jap thing, the genre didn't even blow up in the US until it got bad with FF7, SNES was popular in the US for Mario and the other shit N64 kept having that nobody else cared about
>>12139616This. Ff was the biggest title, but for console RPGs you had slim pickings elsewhere. Obviously PC had its own thing going.
>>12139608FF7 was the first big FF in terms of sales. Still, jrpg were a growing niche, Nintendo was arrogant enough to think they could just "gift" them to their rivals.
>>12139608still blows my mind they were able to make FOUR incredible quality FFs over the span of like 4-5 years total, wtf? and then other masterpieces like parasite eve, vagrant story, chrono cross, xenogears and threads of fate on top of that. absolutely insane run, I had no idea the genre would never be half as great ever again.
When I heard the news I fell out of my chair. My aunt had a heart attack. :(
>>12139608It's the main driving factor that put the N64 in second place behind the PSX in the West, and distant third behind both the PSX and Saturn in Japan. You just couldn't do ambitious 3D JRPG's on a cart-based console.
>>12139748SNES was the golden age and PS1 was the pinnacle of Square
>>12139608i shitted and pissed my pants and selled all my snes games instantly
same reaction people had when FF came to xbox.
>>12139608Advertising. Also FF7 was the first main FF game in Euroland.
>>12139626>Wasn't at all. Snes being beloved for Jrpgs was a Jap thing, the genre didn't even blow up in the US until it got bad with FF7, SNES was popular in the US for Mario and the other shit N64 kept having that nobody else cared aboutI feel like that was my experience as well. My friends were mostly Genesis kids and when the PS1 came out there was zero question what we were switching to. Genesis was pure actual. You don't fucking SAVE YOUR GAME! You beat em off and shoot em up. PS1 was that times ten. We weren't playing FF7 or FF8 because they had interesting narratives. We were playing that shit because the swords were big and the girls were cute.
>>12139851>you beat em offanon... what genesis games were you playing
Why does everyone in this thread type like they're retarded
>>12139851>>12139928What's your best retro beat 'em off?
>>12139748FF7 gave them a huge monetary boostIt was gave them a huge ego boost, and we all know how that ended
>>12139748>over the span of like 4-5 years total, wtf?It was like that during the NES/SNES days too, I've read that even Yuji Horii didn't understand how they were able to churn out quality FF games so fast. Pre-2000 Square really was something else
>>12140215>Budget $137 million[5][6]holy fuckwho the fuck was expecting a return higher than that
>>12139608I remember being in 1st grade and kids were making fun of it because they thought it was the first game in the franchise but it was called final fantasy 7
>>12139608It helped 1997 be the year Sony overtook Nintendo and Sega, and stay that way to where the other two just couldn't compete. >>12139616Tomb Raider 2 (not an RPG) helped a lot too in 1997. >>12139690I don't think Nintendo wanted to lose it ebcause it was NOT a niche genre in any way. They just couldn't lure in 3rd-party developers to make N64 games for it with the 64Mb cart capacity limit.
Nobody I knew gave a fuck about Final Fantasy
>>12139690>FF7 was the first big FF in terms of salesIn the west yeah but FF was big as fuck in Japan even before 7, probably top 3 most popular franchises along with DQ and Mario. It sold millions and was so popular FFV was more anticipated than DQV in 1992 (DQV still sold more in the end though). You can only imagine how salty Nintendo was when Square left them because before the 5th gen Square was basically Nintendo's second party developer, even more so than Konami
FF7 blew my fucking mind when it came out. Even after playing the SNES greats. 7 was such a huge jump in fidelity. With that said, PlayStation was gonna dominate regardless if it had Final Fantasy or not
>>12140329>regardless if it had Final Fantasy or notYeah, PS1 and PS2 had almost all of the biggest releases of their era, Sega and Nintendo sadly stood no chance. The difference was so huge it's unreal. Like between the NES and the Master System
>>12140343Yeah, by the time 7 came out the PS1 already won anyways.
>>12139748Also think about the fact they just came off making FF6 and Chono Trigger on the SNES
>>12140215>let's make a move called Final Fantasy but it wont appeal to neither FF fans nor people who never played a FF.I still can't fathom how utterly forgettable that movie was, i can't remember shit about it beside some military guys firing at orange tentacles.
>>12139690>FF7 was the first big FF in terms of salesFF was already big. FF7 just put it into the stratosphere.>>12140348I wouldn't say PSX had obviously won in 1996. There was too much uncertainty because the N64 had only just been released. You could have predicted victory for Sony based on the way things were heading and concrete factors like licensing agreements and CD/catridge format, and it would have been a fair and reasonable prediction. But it wasn't a sure thing. It was 1997 and 1998 that sealed the deal.
>>12139626>>12139851Yeah, I don't even think that FF7 really "got people into JRPGs." FF7 wasn't necessarily a gateway drug to other jarpigs. FF7 was viewed as its own thing (even though it's still a straight JRPG formula). I think Pokemon was the series that really unlocked western markets to JRPGs.>>12140319>I don't think Nintendo wanted to lose it ebcause it was NOT a niche genre in any way. They just couldn't lure in 3rd-party developers to make N64 games for it with the 64Mb cart capacity limit.Yeah, it wasn't just RPGs. The N64 was optimized for a small handful of genres while the PSX got everything else.
>>12140295how about expecting to break even? how the fuck was that shit even greenlit? but in retrospective it was just the tip of the iceberg of what was happening at SE.
>>12139608no one cared at least here because me and my friends always had all available consoles.
>>12139748>other masterpieces like parasite eve, vagrant story, chrono cross, xenogears and threads of fatekek, other than PE everything else was slop
>>12139748>xenogears>masterpieceThe game was literally a scam. It's unfinished.
>>12139851>We were playing that shit because the swords were big and the girls were cute.Speak for yourself. I was playing that shit because of the cinematics and pretty pre-rendered backgrounds.>>12140228>even Yuji Horii didn't understand how they were able to churn out quality FF games so fastQuality? Even if you love the NES FF games you have to admit they're buggy, shoddy products compared to DQ. I get documentation on this wasn't as widespread back then and Horii wouldn't necessarily know but every single NES and SNES FF has an extensive bug list and "quality" isn't the word I'd use to describe any of them, even if they're fun.
>>12140726> Even if you love the NES FF games you have to admit they're buggy, shoddy products compared to DQWhich is exactly why all the DQ NES entries sold below expectations in the West, despite full Nintendo Power-backed marketing, while FF1 was consistently a best seller for years. Even then, it was commonly agreed FF was higher quality.
>>12140646youre right, I much prefer FIFA and GTA.
>>12140802>in the westI don't see how that would help change Yuji Horii's opinion. >Even then, it was commonly agreed FF was higher quality.How though? In the west maybe, because you'd get DQ3 for example years after FF1. In Japan though, you'd get DQ3 2 months after FF1. Comparing both games FF1 feels like a bootleg copy. You can't enter houses, class system doesn't allow class changes, dialog boxes can't even scroll which severely limits the amount of text you can have, tons of bugs, etc. I say this even though I like the game but it feels like it came out at least 1 year before DQ3, not 2 months. That's not "quality". In the west DQ went with a weird localization, release dates were fucked, it has an art style that didn't appeal to people who didn't even know Toriyama, and a bunch of other factors we already know. But the original topic was about Horii being surprised about "quality" FF games coming out fast when to me at least they all feel rushed.
>>12140726>they're buggy, shoddy products compared to DQYou are right to an extent but I wouldn't call them shoddy, even with all the bugs they still feel like 'premium' NES RPGs but I admit that Amano's art and Uematsu's music contribute to that feel a lot>NES and SNES FF has an extensive bug list and "quality" isn't the word I'd use to describe any of themEven the SNES ones? FF5 and FF6 are DEFINITELY quality games
>>12140823>Complains about bugs then harps up DQ3, the game infamous for its parry bugIntetedting approach. Anyway, I could again say that DQ 3’s class system is primitive compared to FF 3’s from the following year, but it doesn’t matter to me. I like that classes stay the same in FF 1. Feels more true to DnD. It’s not like DQ 3 wasn’t lacking RPG mechanics FF 1 had, like elemental weaknesses.
>>12140823>Comparing both games FF1 feels like a bootleg copyAny console JRPG does because DQ3 was just way too good for its time. But anyway at least FF5 is still unsurpassed when it comes to the job system, it's better than FF3, DQ3 and DQ6 combined
>>12140942>Any console JRPGI meant pre-DQ3 obviusly. And also about polish and quality: Phantasy Star 1 for example is objectively more polished than FF1 but as an RPG it's just worse
>>12140653>The game was literally a scam.Wrong.> It's unfinished.Right.On doesn't imply the other.
>>12140653>>12140949Never played Xenogears but>the game is unfinished>it's still 60 hours longWere the devs out of their mind or what?
>>12140823>How though?Final Fantasy had a far more polished and pleasant interface, and it had far more tasteful aesthetics overall. DQ3 has great monsters and the overvworld map is pretty good. Everything else is crap. Eye-rape color palettes for field maps and sprites, and the ugly and messy overlay menu system.
>>12140951>Were the devs out of their mind or what?Unrealistic ambitions. Inexperienced producer didn't know how to plan and edit the story (and content) to the realities of the time and budget constraints.The gameplay itself is mediocre. The combat engines and animations are solid but the classes/enemies are boring as fuck. It certainly is not engaging enough for an 80-hour game.
>>12140925>>12140942>>12140991I guess I'm just trying to say that if I go back and try to play an old DQ game, I might look for a de-censor romhack. If I try to go back and play an old FF game, I look for a bugfix romhack. So if Horii was wondering how they delivered games so fast, to me that's how.>>12140913>FF5 and FF6 are DEFINITELY quality gamesI don't know much about FF5 but FF6, really? The game where they had to hastily pull the 1.0 version from sales and release an 1.1 version because of a softlock? From the wiki>The Super Nintendo version has over one hundred different documented glitches and bugs, both graphical and gameplay in nature, that were found by hackers. A few major bugs were not fixed until the Advance port
>>12140295>who the fuck was expecting a return higher than thatSakaguchi while huffing copium
>>12141070>I don't know much about FF5 but FF6, really?Yes, they are incredibly polished compared to the NES entires, if you like job systems in JRPGs you should absolutely play FF5, it's unironically one of the greatest 16 bit RPGs, it's just that people don't talk about it much. FF6 is also very polished, not my favorite 2D FF game but also worth playing. I'm a DQfag too if anything but FF5 is absolutely on par with my favorite DQ games and probably my favorite JRPG after DQ4>The game where they had to hastily pull the 1.0 version from sales and release an 1.1Didn't know, I thought this was the case with FF4
>>12141014>The gameplay itself is mediocreXenogears is clearly meant to be a story game, the gameplay is an afterthought and honestly this is the case with a lot of popular JRPGs of the late 90s and 2000s. Takahashi in particular is an industry veteran but his games just make you think that he wanted to be an anime director like Tomino or some shit
>>12141172I only skipped FFV for the same reason everyone did, availability back then. But I'm going through old RPGs and will get to FFV at some point since everyone who plays it seems to like it.>FF6 is also very polishedBut that's what I'm saying, how is it polished if it has bugs that can corrupt your save? The evade attribute doesn't even work, you'd think they'd test that kinda stuff after FF1 where the intelligence attribute doesn't work either but they didn't. If you mean the game design is good, or the graphics, story and such, then sure. I can see it. But it's not a polished product.
I was too young for FF7 but my FF7 moment was FFX. Holy fucking shit dude. I talk about FFX the way people talk about Mario 64. That game was fucking REAL. It was so ahead of its time. The voice acting was very good for their first attempt, too. It could've been awful. With the game being as dramatic as it was, they pull it all off extremely well. FFX doesn't get enough credit these days
>>12141070>I guess I'm just trying to say that if I go back and try to play an old DQ game, I might look for a de-censor romhack. If I try to go back and play an old FF game, I look for a bugfix romhack. So if Horii was wondering how they delivered games so fast, to me that's how.Yeah, they focused on delivering what actually mattered to the audience. I don't have time to make an exhaustive argument placing every single FF bug into proper context so I'll probably have to deal with a bunch of really retarded backlash for this, but the general pattern in FF games is that the bugs that made it to release were just not that important. All the key systems ran smoothly and reliably. Smooth, responsive, well-optimized and aesthetic.Going back to the original comment:>buggy, shoddy products compared to DQ.Buggy? Perhaps relatively so.Shoddy? Definitely not.>>12141194>how is [[FF6] polished if it has bugs that can corrupt your save?No normal player has ever fucking seen that bug and most don't realize evade is brokenMeanwhile normal players notice (consciously and subconsciously):>The snappy, aesthetic, informative, feature-filled UI>The many, detailed field maps with lots of little touches, including techniques to disguise the tile grid especially in areas like caves where there shouldn't be any right angles.>The many different, animated chibi sprites that laugh, show surprise, show anger, wag their fingers, and nod their heads in multiple directions.>The fluid execution of many cutscenes involving these sprites>The smooth, responsive combat interface with the fantastic (for 1994) backdrops and tons of cool ability animations>Absolute top-tier sound effects>The dozens/hundreds of mechanics that work just fine and exactly as intended.
>>12139608Namco and Capcom got the scale tipping in Sony's direction, but certainly as far as Japan was concerned, Square was the killing blow. It even got Enix over the fence, and FF8 sold as many copies its first weekend in NA as Sega sold Dreamcasts in the same timeframe.At the time it was undeniably huge.>>12140802>full Nintendo Power-backed marketingNP and NoA only put effort behind the first game, and they wound up with so many unsold copies they gave them away in mag-subscription deals. The other games were put out by Enix's US wing, and of those only the third game got more than perfunctory coverage from NP.
>>12140319>They just couldn't lure in 3rd-party developers to make N64 games for it with the 64Mb cart capacity limit.you could easily make a great rpg with 64MB in the 5th gen. it would be less flashy in some ways than its ps1 counterparts sure (little to no cut scenes), but it wouldnt some herculean feat. the bigger problem was there wasn't the userbase to justify it - everyone that wanted to play gen 5 rpgs already had a ps1, MAYBE a saturn, and they probably wouldn't switch over for one cool game. paper mario did well because its a tendie game (it's also really good but that's kinda besides the bigger point)
>>12141207The jump from 2d ffs to ff7 is much more drastic than to ff10. There's nothing really bad spoken about it though except hallway comparisons to ff13. I still think most people consider it the last real final fantasy. 12 and 13 are way too out there
>>12139608It was the biggest deal.I remember the day 7 came out, the pre-order pick up line at EB went out of the store and down into the food court. It was madness; never seen it that much for any other game ever since.
>>12141686I disagree because the jump to FF10 was a jump to just actual human characters. You can argueFF8 but eh, we're talking about different levels of human here. PS1 blocky human is not human, outside of FMV. FFX is fucking gorgeous man, and they also talked. And had lots of legitimately profound shit to say
>>12141675>>12140319The small cart size wasn't the only problem.The carts themselves were expensive.Nintendo was greedy with licensing and stingy with developer support.Nintendo DID have a very lucrative audience, but for many developers it was just not worth the hassle of dealing with their bullshit when Sony was a viable option.
>>12139608final fantasy wasn't big in america until ff7, so no one cared.
>>12139818Hahaha holy SHIT. This is incredible hahah
>>12142116>legitimately profound shit to sayHA HA HA HA HA
