Why is the Gradius series so underrated amongst modern shmup fans? The shmups forum doesn't even have a Gradius game in its top 25 anymore. Easily one of the most fun and soulful series of all time. If you're turned off by its infinite loops and lack of a central scoring mechanic then you have Parodius which is arguably even better in multiple ways. But good ol' Gradius ought not be forgotten. Gradius 1 in 1985 was probably the first scrolling shmup ever released to still be fun in the modern day. The power-up system and the weapon loadouts are still remarkably fun.
>>12165278Its only underrated in the west
>>12165278Gradius is designed around a broken concept of powerups that punish you for the slightest failure. Dying once resets all your progress, making you insanely underpowered for the way the levels are designed. It’s possible to overcome it but it’s not fun.And then you need to decide between increasing your firepower while the chance arrives, or improving your speed so your ship isn’t a sluggish brick. But again, one hit and your back to slowly floating around without any satisfaction in movement.Instead of starting the game feeling FUNCTIONAL, with improvements to feel great, Gradius starts off feeling DYSFUNCTIONAL, with improvements to feel complete. That’s why I’ve never liked the game. And I love shmups.
>>12165305Gradius 1 and the entire Parodius have recoverable checkpoints for the most part. Gradius II and III are the only ones that really have this problem.
>>12165305I agree. As much as I hate R-Type, It made sure to give you a normal speed and a charge beam for when you fucked up and lost all upgrades.It still has bullshit checkpoints but it's far more managable.
>>12165305>It’s possible to overcome it but it’s not fun.It's literally the most funny part of the game
>>12165278It's hard and most modern shmuppers are vert/danmakufags. It's definitely good, you forgot to mention it also has some of the most iconic revenge bullets in the genre, that alones makes it a lot more dynamic than other horis.
>>12165278Parodius is an objective improvement in every single way.
>>12165449This. Every credit gives you a strategic first attempt, and if you die, you play a game of becoming Neo, your brain goes on overclock, start seeing stuff that was previously naked.
>>12165597The only thing is I don't like how the boss health mechanic was changed to make them not speed-killable most of the time. Like if you choose the Vic Viper you'll probably only kill bosses slightly faster with the laser over the double whereas in Gradius it's significant.
>>12165305This, it’s historically significant but not good. The power system is completely irredeemable and ruins the experience. It was never designed to be enjoyed, it was designed to make you put quarters in the machine.Modern takes show us how a better balanced punish system (Super Hydorah) or a permanent upgrade system with scaling level design (Drainus) work so much better. As another anon said even R-Type gives half a shit about recovery.
>>12165679>it was designed to make you put quarters in the machineOpposite, it's designed to be impossible for credit feeders. Gradius comes from a time where game centers were the main way to play video games, people were waiting in line to give it a shot and hogging the machine all day was considered poor etiquette. Game over means fuck off.
>>12165679>it was designed to make you put quarters in the machineBiggest lie ever told.
>>12165305based>t. beat gradius on NES with one life
>>12165305Gradius games, especially the first one, are designed around knowing how to recover: you can try to go through the whole game without dying and eventually manage to, but it's more interesting to learn how to recover wherever you can, in order to have a more exciting time and also have some leeway as long as you can prove you can recover. You're also given a ton of leeway in the first game to get a ton of upgrades early, and there's no high speed stage so you don't need to worry too much about speed ups. If you don't want to engage with the power up system at all, you obviously won't have fun with a game that has it as one of its main aspects.
Tip: you should set up synchronous autofire when playing your shmups. >I already have autofire on my controllerYes, but it's asynchronous, and isn't giving you the full advantage possible. It's better to use the synchronous options in an emulator that can ensure you're firing as often as the game allows. For maximum advantage you can even set up multiple autofire buttons so that you can get 30 shots per second + 15 shots per second which will allow you to have both a close burst shot button and a more scattered shot pattern better for clearing the screen of enemies. This kind of set-up is pretty common in Japanese arcades that specialize in high-scoring of shmup games. Some machines that are for games that technically only need two buttons will have five different buttons set up on the machine with different functions like-normal shot-bomb- 30hz synchronous autofire- 15hz synchronous autofire- shot + bomb (a lot of games do something with this)
>>12165305The act of recovering in Gradius (and similar games like R-Type) is supposed to be a new puzzle to the player. So you get more mileage out of each stage playing through powered and unpowered. But this doesn't feel very fun to the casual player who feels like all their extra lives are being stolen from them after one death. When really the game has actually switched "modes" on you. Yeah, it's not fun at first, but when you start thinking of recovery itself as another new "level" it becomes a different experience.
>>12165679>it was designed to make you put quarters in the machine.You can't continue in the original arcade version of Gradius 1.
>>12165846Shhh, let him spout his headcanon.
>>12165837I would like to see some proof about your claim about "multiple" autofire buttons. I can understand having a single 15hz autofire button, but two?
>>12165846> b-b-but ONE of the Gradius games doesn’t let you continueThe absolute state of basedlennials
>>12165901As I explained, the different autofire speeds serve different gameplay purposes. In many games you can only have so many shots on screen at once, so if you fire at 30hz you will will get closely spaced bursts of shots. This will result in some misses when trying to clear the screen of weak enemies. So you also use a 15hz button to have a more scattered beam of shots that covers the screen more effectively. 30hz = tough enemies and bosses15hz = waves of weak enemiesThen there's the whole rank mechanic thing where sometimes firing too fast will penalize the player.Note that some games run at refresh rates less than 60hz, so the actual firing hz rate will be different for them.
>>12165908It was the game that started the base design all the other games follow.
>>12165278Gem
>>12165909As I said, I know that japanese arcades almost always have autofire. And some machines had a dial, that you can turn to control the rate. It's common knowledge. But you said "multiple" autofire buttons with different rates. This is something entirely new to me. I gotta need some actual proof to believe it.
Is Aleste on MSX any different than the Master System version? I still need to complete the first game wondering which platform to play on.
>>12165932Look up any of the tour videos of Mikado or other arcades where high-score players frequent. You'll see that a lot of the shmup cabs have 4 or more buttons installed. In this pic you can see someone playing one of the Taito games and I think those are four analog knobs on the right to control the turbo speed of each button, although they might also do things like change button configurations (some arcades have this function for fighting games, so I guess it could be used for shmup players as well). See in the comments on this video from player https://youtu.be/JfwyrV_oSB8>The setup is a Sega Astro City cabinet, the control panel is a Seimitsu lever (model unconfirmed), and the button assignments are A (single shot) + B (force) + A (30 shots in a row) + A (15 shots in a row) + B (30 force) + A (7.5 shots in a row).>I think the lever was a Seimitsu LS-32.When using the revived turret, you often need to flick the lever, so I adjusted it to be a little stiff to prevent the recoil from pushing it in the opposite direction.>As for the rapid fire, I only use the 7.5-fire setting to make life easier when using up remaining lives, so it's fine if you don't have it.
>>12165943>Taito gamesKonami. Brain slip.
>>12165278>>12165278>Why is the Gradius series so underrated amongst modern shmup fans?Is it? It's one of the most well-known and respected series, and shmup fans go on about Gradius III is all the time.Maybe you're just seeing most modern shmup fans preferring vertical over horizontal games, but Gradius is widely loved.
>>12165305>Dying once resets all your progressSounds like a skill issue to me.At any rate that's less broken than Raizing games where you have to AVOID powerups to prevent difficulty ramping up, or even actually kill yourself to ramp down difficulty, and you niggers keep claiming that Battle Garegga is the best shmup ever.
>>12165943Damn, you are right. I still wonder why though? I mostly go with 15Hz autofire on every single shmup. Am I missing something here?
>>12165285I'd say this seems to be a good assessment. As best I can tell, Japan still loves Gradius, with the EPROM board revision of the original game being among the most expensive and desirable videogaming items over there.
>>12165975>you have to AVOID powerups to prevent difficulty ramping up, or even actually kill yourself to ramp down difficultyI don't see the problem
>>12165837>autofireYou did NOT beat the game.
>>12165908You can't continue in any of the arcades you retarded ass zoomer piece of shit
I think Gradius Gaiden is meh. Yet another casualization from KCET like SotN.
>>12165975>AVOID powerups to prevent difficulty ramping upThis was nothing new, newfag.>or even actually kill yourself to ramp down difficultyStill better design than having 60 lives on stock in some shitty multilooperA
>>12166134>like SotNCastlevania was always casual console shit tho>Gaiden is casualIt only is if you play it like a casual shitter with the obvious cheat power ups
>>12166140>Castlevania was always casual console shit thohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQmwpBslZa4
>>12166149That's just fanservice for Cv1/Cv2 fans at the time
>>12166016If the game allows 30hz you could be doing a lot more DPS.
>>12165909Cant believe people actually do it, feels like turbo cheating :(
>>12165305Anon, most if not all of pre-bullet hell shmups are like that thoughTwo of my faves, Slap Fight and Fantasy Zone are pretty much that to a TEE. If anything if encourages you to improve
It's worthwhile to consider recovery just like a boss fight, and memorize the pattern necessary to get powered back up.
>>12166425It's all part of the shmup industry of the time period. The developers + magazines + peripheral makers were all in cahoots.
>>12166448I mostly like bullet hells, to be fair.
>>12166425Getting outside of developer-intentions philosophical discussions, having players tapping the button rapidly is an inherently untenable position for arcade operators. Players will use coins, pens, toys, rulers, etc to rub across the button rapidly in order to get a DIY turbo-fire effect, and this will damage the button quickly, putting the cabinet out of order. It's kind of similar to the Street Fighter 1 pneumatic buttons that always broke because players hammered on them too hard.
>>12165278>Gradius 1 in 1985 was probably the first scrolling shmup ever released to still be fun in the modern day.I'd rather play Xevious (1983).
>>12166582Also reading letters in old issues of Gamest you run into anecdotes like this one:>I, KAZ • TAK I, want to say this to those who "rub" the machines:>One day, at a certain game center, I was playing "Pinball" because I was tired of rapid-fire shooting, when I suddenly heard a scream, "Aaaah~!">I fixed the flipper button with tape and went to see, and there was a guy bleeding from his finger. Yes, he was "rubbing" the machine.There are a lot of letters sent to Gamest about the issue of "rubbing" or "scratching" (the same thing). Most of them very negative, but also some that admit it's not possible to score high without doing it or that repeatedly pressing the button creates finger and wrist problems over the long term. But the thing is, there's no getting around the problem of people literally bleeding on machines. That's a hard negative, as it creates a public health hazard. And this was in a time when AIDS/HIV was a worldwide panic.
>>12166460>>12166582For every shmup that doesnt feature autofire, I configure a hotkey to fire at the same rate I would manage by mashing the buttom.
the autofire argument never made too much of an impact on my (and I even started playing these games not knowing how to set up auto on mame, ha). If folks are not crazy about it (for now) I would recommend sticking to games that don't need it, like pic related, or some of the cave games (that have it as a separate button), or any game with a generous burst-fire that allows for light tapping for full shot speed (Giga Wing).
>>12165305git gud fag. Gradius V and Gaiden are both top 5 shmups.
>>12165305Agree. People who don't are posers without clears.t. 1lc'd Gradius 1, 2, Gaiden, Rebirth + standard 1cc for Gradius V, Parodius Da, Otomedius Excellent + multiloop(3 iirc) in Jikkyou because that game gives you a fuckton of extra lives. I'm prbably forgetting something too
Toaplan did checkpoints the best, at least they give you a 3-way and some bombs
>>12167362Yea this is fine.Also in Gradius' defense, Gaiden did the same thing by adding more red enemies that only appear if you are trying to recover. If you like the system but want a fighting chance instead of absolutely fucking nothing, I'd recommend playing that one.
Also can't remember which one exactly, but one of the Parodius games had a very generous difficulty rank reduction on death so you can recover simply because the enemies don't shoot for a while.
>>12167364Sexy Parodius on Semi-Auto/Manual gives you an eagle enemy that spawns a bunch of bells on some checkpoints. And Auto of course just doesn't have checkpoints and gives you a bunch of bells when you die. You can use the purple, blue, or green bells to get a lot of power-ups.
>>12167379Gradius 1 does that as wellIf you're at 15 rank and die you get sent back to like 4 or 5 rank
>>12167680I think it's actually Gokujou Parodius.Funnily enough, the same game also has a very harsh rank, if you ever got to the high speed stage without ever dying and at full power ups, you will see how batshit the game gets.
Gradius 1 difficulty curve is weird>Stage 1 easy>Stage 2 easy>Stage 3 FUCK YOU>Stage 4 FUCK YOU>Stage 5 easy>Stage 6 easy>Stage 7 kinda hard
>>12165278I don't like Gradius because I can't get autofire working for it on MAME and I'm not going to wreck my wrist furiously slapping the fire button.
>>12167741The whole Parodius series has kinda fucked up rank. Da! is just stupid with how it penalizes having more than one speed-up, though at least that's fixed in all the ports. The others are also aggressive but not as bad. Jikkyou Oshaberi can get insane with the bullets but also has more overpowered characters to deal with it.
>>12167750Pro-tip: Set one button for rapid shot + missile and another button for regular shot + missileYou're probably experiencing the thing where rapid laser in Gradius 1 doesn't do any damageAlso in MAME you wanna make your autofire bind different from what the button's set to. So like if you have Button 1 set to X on your controller and you want to make X the rapid button, just unassign X from Button 1 in the input settings and assign it to autofire in the autofire plugin
>>12167759>Da! is just stupid with how it penalizes having more than one speed-upI remember this one. But on the other hand, you can use to keep the rank low for a while by just taking one speed up and using it until halfway through the game. iirc you also had to avoid shield and the 4th option in specific. Also double gives less rank than laser but that isn't much of a big deal.
>>12167750You don't have to use Mame, get the Gradius Origins collection instead
>>12167680Gradius 1 has rank?
>>12167883Yep.
>>12166623>play shmups, get AIDSgreat genre
>>12166079>UMMMMMMM SWEATIE YOU DID NOT BEAT THE GAME THOUGHBEIT??? japanese_children_in_arcade_in_1988.webmAnd that's the real reason why the genre is dead.
>>12167883Yeah you can see it on the M2 portIt's just a value from 0-15 so it's not super granular like Garegga or something, and you'll get to max rank no matter what since it increments with both power-ups and time. It's impactful but not worth trying to "manage"
I have downloaded 100 shmups but I have only cleared 2
>>12168260Time to clear the other 98
>>12165837how setup 15+30 in ra?
Works on my machineWait, wrong quote.
>>12168310You can't using RetroArch's turbo functionality by itself. If you have a autofire controller you can set it up to have 15hz or 30hz on one button, and then use RA's autofire for the other speed. There's also shmupmame which has very fine control over autofire settings.
>>12168260Which ones?
>>12168260Go clear Tiger-Heli for the NES today and get back to us. You can do it.
>>12166425the only supreme authority that matters said its not cheating so
>>12168394This faggot didn't exist until like 5 years ago, I hate zoomers
>>12168394>it's a mork thinks he's an expert on action game design episodeGetting really sick of this arc
>>12168557what's a mork?
>>12168564this guy >>12168394
RE: The historicity of save state practice.This actually predates emulation. Several of the 90s game copies let you load save states via a RAM snapshot of the game. There were also stand-alone devices like the Game Saver+ that let you do that. And of course you could also cheat with a Game Genie or other cheat device to allow you to select a level even in a game without a level select function. Or if it was a PC version you just apply a trainer.
>>12168587I forgot one more: freeze. This is a feature in some arcade boards DIP switches. When pressed, it pauses the game. Useful for magazines that took screenshots of the game. But *also* useful as a slow-motion function. You can apply that turbo button to the freeze button (usually on the start button) and it can halve or quarter the speed of the game.On consoles, most western players considered the slow-motion function of their controllers a useless afterthought, but it does have its uses..
>>12168394I agreed with some of his opinions but I remember in one video, maybe the god hand one or another, he pretty much said something like "yeah I want to play complex games because I want other people to recognize that I'm a hardcore gamer when I beat them" and after that I just saw him as a poser and why he's such a contarian, just to look "cool" and "hardcore"also for some reason he speeds up his shmups gameplay during reviews, I don't know if it's so it looks like he likes these mega "hard" games for any normies that stumble on his videos
>>12168657>he pretty much said something like "yeah I want to play complex games because I want other people to recognize that I'm a hardcore gamer when I beat them"What's wrong with that? People showing off their skills and attracting a crowd are one of the best, most iconic things about arcades. Leaderboards, 1alls, arcade difficulty and the act of playing in a public place itself fundamentally exist to show off and compare your skills to those of your community.
>>12168803that's fine, but I mentioned that more as an illustration of how some of his opinions might be influenced by beliefs like these instead of genuine interest for good and fun game designbecause as a player that belief is fine, but when he starts larping as a game designer then his opinions need more scrutiny
>>12168803No healthy adult male should engage in attention whoring
>>12169040Then shmups are not the genre for you. That's literally the end goal, get attention for your high score.
The original, true, deepest intended scenario for playing Space Invaders is two young people on a date sipping cocktails and having a good time chatting and laughing over playing the game on a small "school desk" style Japanese "cocktail" cabinet with a wooden appearance and flat glass top. The cocktail should be set to flipping 2-player mode, with each player taking turns shooting the invaders while the other person watches and sips their drink, perhaps making witty banter.The game is not to be taken too seriously, and it is polite on the male's part to only beat the girl's score by a small margin.
>>12169138Stop projecting bitch, WRs know no one gives a a ahit about their scores, only mediocre players try to get attention with their low tier clears, they lack the discipline and real motivation for long-term play
>>12169153Bad example, Taito is the quintessential otaku company
>>12169206It wasn't when Space Invaders was released.
>>12169225>it wasn't in Gundam's eraNonsense
>>12169185You're an idiot.
>>12169228What does Gundam have to do with this?
>>12169231The end of the 70s and beginning of the 80s was the era where the otaku revolution was stirring and starting to change Japan's cultural product and economy forever. Gundam as well as Space Invaders were both pushing in that direction
>>12169235Otakus ruined what I was describing here>>12169153by taking what was supposed to be a bit of whimsical fun and going ultra-try-hard on it, making it the weird and cringe hobby it is today.
>>12169235Gundam is just second wave tokusatsu>>12169153Galaga alone destroys your hypothesis. If anything golden age era was the only time in gaming where scoring was mainatream, even in the USA there were excellent dedicated players.
>>12169254Galaga is not Space Invaders.
>>12169247What you described in that post is true for many old games, but Taito ones were different. The people at Taito didn't just happen to tap into otaku culture, they were actual maniacs who envisioned and actively shaped it into existence
>>12169259It's literally just a better space invaders. Just because Space Invaders was basic doesn't mean it wasn't intended for skilled play.
>>12169270It was the beginning of the Otaku-fication.
>>12169270>It's literally just a better space invaders.Absolutely not. They are different styles of games entirely.
The absolute fucking nonsense I read on this site
>>12169515nice vague-posting, bitch
>>12169517I'll vague your bussy then 1cc DOJ
>>12169518>caveso 2010s
>>12169273>>12169282You are out of your mind anon
>>12169536Watch some high level Space Invaders gameplay, it's completely different from anything you do in Galaga.
>>12169247>nooo I don't want to be weird and try-hard>in the shoot em up thread
>>12168312They all go to the same Catholic school by the looks of it.
>>12165278Kek based image. Saved.
>>12165305>Gradius is designed around a broken concept of powerups that punish you for the slightest failureThat's right son, now git gud.
I want to get good at G Darius and Darius Gaiden but they kick my ass
>>12165419Image Fight has some bullshit ass checkpoints>Mission 6 beginning>Mission 2 midpointso far I've only gotten to 6 but breddy gud game. In fact both of these are totally recoverable, you just have to pull some crazy shit off and be very precise.
>>12169729Play more shmups, you'll get better over time. the advice of sticking to one game I think is wrong. Pick a handful you like and play them.
>>12169732Sticking to one game is better if you want to achieve something on that game in specific. Although you could play something else in the meantime casually.
Somewhat rare but necessary reminder to play Twinkle Star Sprites.Also reminder to get the patched ROM or cheat codes for debug menu access, there's a fun surprise there other than a way to practice formations.
>>12169732>>12169749It goes like this>1cc your first shmoop>flail around other games to experience different styles and develop your personal taste>dedicate your life to that one special game
>>12169804You make it sound like you can only 1cc one shmup.
>>12169841You collect 1ccs in the flail phase, then when you get bored you play one game for score like a grown man
>>12169851Eh I don't know, I don't see myself chasing particularly high scores in one game, at best I could do more runs to beat my own pbs.
What's the point of mastering a shmup if neither ricardo, clp nor kraut are here to notice me and give me headpats =[Gus is now handicapped and perma idle tooWhat would I even play? What shmups are going to be hot in 2026?
>>12170071>What shmups are going to be hot in 2026?Whatever M2 releases next
>>12170143no one played gear :(
>>12170162I'm sure it's good but obviously the rereleases sell more and rail shooters are kind of a niche within a nicheI'm sure they got some decent money from Taito and Konami so it's not like they're in trouble, most of the independent ShotTriggers releases are passion projects that don't really expect to turn a profit. I think DOJ sold the most and it was still like fucking nothing.
>>12170071>No external validation If you've been into shmups for more than a few years and you don't have a YouTube or twitch with a couple hundred run attempts of the same shmup, with barely any views or subs, you are NOT going to make it.>What to play?CavePsikyoGradiusRaidenToaplanTouhou (if u gay)
>>12170207I have been into shmups for nearly 30+ years now and never made a streaming channel anywhere. Occasionally record runs to help myself with routing and keeping memory of which games I 1cc'd or whatever, but that's it.
>>12170071What the fuck are you talking about? Why must every thread be about what I assume is some eceleb
>>12170234Best crowning achieves?
>>12170249Eh idk, probably the best one was looping Gradius 2.
>>12170246>mention Daigo in fighting game thread>scrubs rage at a name they don’t recognizelel
>>12170257If I go in a fighting game thread I expect people to talk about the games, the characters, whatever, not to act like celeb worshippers over EVO players.
>>12170262Players talk about each other
>>12170257>enter thread to talk about video games>instead of discussing and playing games they're discussing e-celebsYeah that makes sense for fighting game faggots that don't play We can add shmupfags to that list too it seems
>>12170323About other anons who also browse the thread maybe. Don't act like it's exactly the same thing.
>>12170174holy shit, I would give the pope's left nut to satan if it meant M2 ports DOJ and ketsui to PC, why can't some millionaire motherfucker finance M2 to do all those ports
>>12170356Did anyone try emulation for those ports?DOJ is also on Switch so that might work better.
>>12170357garegga runs perfect on shad, i assume others ok too
>>12165975You have no business telling anyone to 'git gud' if you can't even figure out how to selectively collect drops.
>>12170249ghosts n goblins
>>12170071Literally who gives a shit about ric? He didn't even play the games
Most important and best thing M2 ported was the secret of mana trilogy in the Mana CollectionNow those are timeless games, just beat Trials of Mana (2D original) so fun :)
my memory sucks ass I wasn't meant for shmups
>>12170425How do you keep forgetting 20 minutes of gameplay unless you have alzheimer's already?
>>12170207Touhou isn't for playing, it's for autismal worship of pixel girls made by a single guy in a single afternoon.
>>12170450idk I'm only 35 years young
>underratedit's fairlyrated.
It's not retro but Night Striker Gear is well worth playing through. Excellent game and pretty good followup to the Taito og.
>>12165909>rank mechanic thing where sometimes firing too fast will penalize the playergod damn, as if I didn't have enough reasons to hate rank systems already
>>12170571It's really only autistically dumb in Yagawa games or tryhard cave games/cave clones (looking at you Rolling Gunner).Even the worst of konami rank management simulators (parodius series) you can take very small steps to ensure it is not affecting your moment-to-moment decision making.
what emulator should i use to emulate m2 ports? and can i get the files on myrient?
>>12170571I think Garegga copied this from Gun frontier, but Gun frontier is still a lot easier with autofire, while in Garegga will rape you if you start with a fast autofire rate. On the good side being able to change the autofire without external tools was a genius move for Yagawa
>>12170479why do most of the negative reviews on steam are by japs complaining about the soundtrack? was the original that good?
>>12170589The og music is that good but it's not my favorite zuntata soundtrack (that'd be raystorm, luv me Tamayo, simple as).I think the complaint about the serious orchestral music is overblown. Given that it's an Iuchi game, I suppose that type of music brings it more in line with RSG and Ikaruga, soundwise.
What are Top 3 hottest shmups in the West and in the East currently?Same or different taste?
>>12170574CAVE games don't have fucky rank systems.The closest thing is DOJ, and even that it's straightforward about how many hypers you are using and which level.
>>12170618That's honestly true, I was just half-thinking about hyper management and the retarded shit in DFK (lousy game imo). But people mimicking cave also tend to go overboard (never really jibed with CC or RG).
>>12169732The game you've been playing the most is always the one you're most likely to clear and master, no matter how hard it is.
>>1217058210hz is plenty fast enough and won't increase the rank.
>>12170162>way too easy>no depth>looks like shit>plays horriblyA true mystery
>>12170578https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/ShadPS4dlpsgame combios https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Emulator_files#PlayStation_4sys_modules (.sprx only; 3.6 MB)
>>12170618Pink Sweets
Theoretically, you could use a cheat code to turn the bullets in boomer shooters to a pink color.
>>12171183You don't really need to though. Battle Garegga is the only game that has this issue and the PS4 port fixes that (white or yellow bullets are actually higher-vis than pink bullets in that game though)
Shmups are actually very routing and memorizing focused, they remind me of speedrunning jrpgs back in the day. I did a one credit clearing of Gunbird 2 and got the itch to get back into rpg time attacks!
>>12170813>10hz is plenty fastNot for the last 2 stages>won't increase the rankIt doesn't add a multiplier but you are still shooting more bullets.
>>12167748This is true though, Gradius has the weirdest difficulty curve. Stage 3 is not so bad, it's the zako rush at the end that's a pain in the ass. Stage 4 is easy if you use the double shot, just time the volcano and use you options to shield you on both sides of it. Stage 7 use double shot again. I played the PC Engine and NES versions though, not arcade.
>>12170421Secret of Mana is a game that's a classic and good but also mediocre and shitty at the same time. Everything about it I found great except for the plot and story which were bad. At least I got a lot of hours grinding around and exploring. Disappointing game with a lackluster ending.
>>12172354I prefer Trials of Mana 2D aka secret of mana 3. The story is forgettable but it's basically a beat em up dressed up as an rpg
>>12171140THANKS!I finally have it set up. Quick question, how is the input lag when playing with this method, compared to the real PS4? I have no idea how to do my own calculations
>>12171641>Not for the last 2 stagesThat isn't a problem because you're not going to see the last two stages on your first credit.
>>12171641>Not for the last 2 stagesnah it's actually fine until blackheart 2no need to start fucking up the rank at the start of stage 6
Does anyone use the Switch Lite for playing shmups? Is the screen fast enough? How bad is the vertical situation on it?
>>12169153Sounds very gay honestly
>>12173240Dunno about the lite, but playing verticals on a regular handheld switch is usually not ideal and very tough for bullet hell. You can get away with some easier dadshit though.
>>12172908Projecting is bad>>12172960Maybe as wild snail but with the other ships 12hz helps.
>>12165935Check the HG101 article, IIRC MSX is better
>>12169235Nah Space Invaders was riding the Star Wars wave. It was stuff like Xevious that was properly anime inspired.
>>12168803Oh, hi Mark!
>>12173281Being on a date with a girl and having a good time is gay?
>>12173981It depends on the context, obviously.
>>12169732>Play more shmups, you'll get better over time. the advice of sticking to one game I think is wrong.Why does this general exist when it gives such horrendously stupid advice
>>12174540>You can't be like Jaimers (great at many shmups) you have to be like Moglar or Gus (great at 1 shmup)!!!One trick ponies seething
>>12174642Even Jaimers' best score (DDP) isn't truly great. Is he one step above 1cc collectors? for sure, but he's no way a WR tier player.
>>12174667So? He's having fun. I'd rather be able to beat most of what I play.
>>12174667Beautiful cope
>>12174642Sorry lil bro, I don't care about my shmup body count. No problem with people who find it fun. I hate full extent of the jam, that focuses on increasing your shmup body count.I play shmups that I like, and I only 1CC when I find a really good one. Currently, trying to 1CC Tengai. I don't wanna be the next Jaimers.
>>12174758And this doesn't mean that I am only good at one shmup. Your subconscious evolves with you, patterns that at first seems impossible becomes easy when you jump between games of different difficulty. While grinding Tengai, I got really good at Gradius, R-Type, etc. I used to think Progear was mid, but after learning more about the genre, I hate to admit it but I was wrong.
>>12174758>>12174778>lil bro>body count>midzoomers pls leave
>>12174806>zoomers pls leaveMake me, lil bro.
>>12174736>>12174753ngmi
Jaimers also does impressive shit like Touhou 7 Lunatic No Miss No Bomb No Border Break thoughbeit
How about you don't degenerate in eceleb talk and start posting some progress instead
Ahh, Ketsui. Now THAT'S an awesome shmup
Getting better day by day. Learned about how pianist train their fingers to be relaxed and as gentle as possible while playing. Applied the same advice to shmups, and I can definitely see it helping with reaction times, dodging, focusing on the game itself, etc.
>>12175563Fuck me
Ganbaado?
>>12175571powaaa uppaaa!
>>12175571>too hard>too short>bad combowhat kind of mental retardation is that?
>>12175582It's commonly referred as Gaming Journalism
>>12175324Currently mostly playing Battle Garegga and the Gradius seriesI know it's better to play one game but I like varietyI still suck ass at Garegga and haven't reached stage 6 after about 13 hoursWith Gradius 1 I haven't played that much but I'm still on the stage 4 wall. I can beat every stage in training mode so it's just about stringing it together without dying at an inopportune time. Shouldn't take much longer. Gradius II is cool and also seems relatively easy. Gradius III will be my goal after I get the Garegga clear, and I just know this shit's gonna take like 100 hours. Parodius Da! and Sexy Parodius are also on my list. Saturn versions for both most likely, even if it makes Da! easier. I think other than Gradius III these will be the hardest. Limited extends and all that.
>>12175613>Gradius III will be my goal after I get the Garegga clear, and I just know this shit's gonna take like 100 hours.You are being really generous there. Gradius III is a genuine ballbuster, I genuinely don't recommend it unless you mean the SNES version.
>>12175618>Gradius III is a genuine ballbuster, I genuinely don't recommend it unless you mean the SNES version.But it's so cool and ambitious thoughI'll probably play the SNES version first but the arcade version is too interesting to ignore completely
>>12175627It's a good game, but it has very high difficulty and not the fun kind since your run is over on the first death if you are at the wrong checkpoint. And of course even if you do manage to recover it doesn't mean you aren't going to die again on the next stage.
>>12175630>not the fun kindBelieve me, if you go into it without the "clearing" mindset you will enjoy it even on a single credit. The game is pure fun, yeah I can't get past stage 4 but that doesn't matter because the game doesn't hold back, the bubbles are amazing, the boss, etc. It's pure fun, clearing Gradius 3 is something that shouldn't be forced.
>>12175324I'm working through Espgaluda, but progress is slowing down. I can consistently get into stage 5 with varying amounts of resources, a couple times up to the Alice room. I've been doing some save state practice on the final boss and I think I'm fucked, so I've been bouncing off a bit to other games. It feels a bit like I'm improving overall still, plus it's nice to see how much I have already improved by going back to other games after grinding Galuda for so long.
>>12173981Making posts like that one is gay.
>>12175613>stage 4 wallI sure hope you're not trying to beat Fatty Glutton with the yellow laser
>>12175774>fatty gluttonAnon...
>>12166623damn that's hardcore. Only game injury I got was losing thumb skin on fighting games thanks to SNES' stupid convex buttons. One reason I have a Super Famicom instead now
>>12175934Sorry I'm completely Darius-brained
this man is your FRIENDhe fights* for your FREEDOM*does nothing
>>12165278it is one of the most popular shmup series that isn't bullet hell wtf are you talking about?
>>12177520It's popular but not given its due as a genuinely excellent series imo, everyone just jerks off over cave and raizing
>>12177584Gradius 1 and 2 are decent enough but 3 is shit, their Magnum opus is a kusoge meme shmup.And no one plays Gaiden, 4 or 5.
>>12177598Gradius III is the ultimate filter
>>12177612No one is playing that kusoge for fun, they might do one loop (for gamer cred) flail to 2-2 and never go back to it again. Cause it's shitOnly a couple mentally ill jap uncles keep playing , I assume it's a sunk cost fallacy + autism at work
>>12177231What a neat hidden gem.
>>12177612Which is intended btw, the only people who hate it are those are only interested in "clearing" shmups, and adding it to their collection. Gradius 3 is the perfect sequel to Gradius 2. It was only meant to be enjoyed by Gradius 2 fanatics, if you are someone who's only interested in creating save states, memorizing a route from yt, and clearing it, you will hate it.
>>12177653G3 is far worse than G2
>>12177680G2 kinda has the problem of the first few stages being really fucking boring and easy whereas G3 is pure cock and ball torture from the jump
>>12177697The fire dragons stage in 2 is pretty cool. The second one, not so much. Third and fourth are the first difficulty spike where the game gets real.So it's really just the second stage.
>>12177680>G3 is far worse than G2Nope, G3 is a sequel to G2. Which means it surpasses G2 in every way, which includes difficulty and level design.
>>12177718>>Nope, G3 is a sequel to G2. Which means it surpasses G2 in every way>sequels are defacto better than their predecessors infallible logic
>>12177697G2 first stage is great. And if youre looping while also scoring the early stages aren't dull at all. And none of the stages outlast their welcome while every g3 stage is unnecessarily long and repetitive challenges outstay their welcome making each loop like an hour long. Nevermind the jank and gayness plaguing many G3 stages and level design
For noobs like me: one thing I've learned is that when guys who play shoot'em ups say a game is easy, what they're really saying is: "with ship X, mode Y, option Z, this game is easy".For example, everyone must have heard that DoDonpachi Ressurection is a good option for beginners because 1cc is easy, but that's because there's a specific game mode (strong) that's super overpowered.Another example is Batsugun, considered easy by everyone, but they forget to say: "it's easy with the woman's ship, especially with autofire", because the stage 4 boss is a 3/10 difficulty level with the girl, with the other ships it's 8/10 difficulty, and that's the difference between 1cc in 6 hours or 40 hours...
>>12177995Just use what makes the gameplay more enjoyable to you. If it's harder then you are improving more than most people who did a quick and dirty 1cc with the best ship either way.
>>12177995As mentioned earlier in this thread, not all autofires are made equal either. Being able to DPS at maximum can vastly change the overall difficulty of a game.Lots of other technical factors affect the game's difficulty too. Stuff that newbs might not know about, like running games at their proper refresh rates or else the game runs too fast (making it harder than it needs to be).
>>12177718>>12177697>1 loop only baby thinking his opinion matterslel>>12177761Spread bomb on fire stage, jesus christ
>>12177995Batsugun special is the easy one to 1 loop and that one has autofire, no excuses
https://youtu.be/yY3NQmGDIXQ?t=669This guy has never played a shmup, let alone DoDonPachi.
It took me 45 minutes to get through the cube rush in training modeMaybe this game does suck ass
>>12179301Not even shmup devs play shmups lol sad!
>>12179365We warned you about Gradius 3 bro.Also the cube rush had like a dozen of variations and it's possible for a cube to hit through the other cubes.
>>12179450everyone knows what a shmup is and no one know how to play them
You guys know about the Asia/World version of Gradius III right"muh Gradius syndrome" no you just play the non-Japanese version you fucking weeaboo
>watch jap who has been playing Gradius3 all his life since he was a baby>still resets constantly in loop 1>calls the game kusoge>keeps playing it anywayYeah it's SHITE!
>>12179957Pretty much. Imagine seeing these people as role models
>>12179957>>still resets constantly in loop 1>>calls the game kusoge>>keeps playing it anywayAverage superplayer behavior actually, hardly exclusive to Gradius
>>12179957It's called love, something you will never experience or understand
>what kind of haircut u want>just shoot my shit up
>>12180457I actually enjoy his commentaries, but my eyes rolled all the way back when he started complaining about the dolls designs in DOJ or SDOJ. I think it was the DOJ video where he complains. The funny thing is he *almost* gets it too, that the designs are at complete contrast with the state of the world, and intentionally symbolic of that disconnection.
>>12179957who?
>>12177653>memorizing a route from ytThere's no difference between this and watching a 1990s Pony Canyon VHS release. https://youtu.be/MHKpwaEwBto
>>12177520Never caught on in the west like it did in Japan and anyone getting into STG's over the last 15-20 is going to be through bullet hells like cave or touhou. Gradius is good, but newer players never feel much reason to go back to it with maybe parodius being the exception due to its art direction. It mostly leaves gradius as something that's known among the Jap boomer community, but somewhat unkown among youger/western players.
>>12165278Today I learned there is an R-Type Final 3 already. But it's actually an expanded version of 2. What the fuck.
>>12165837What other games come with autofire customization other than Raiden DX?
>>12181075>anyone getting into STG's over the last 15-20 is going to be through bullet hells like cave or touhou.nonsense
>>12181075Gradius' international fame outshines Parodius' fame by a huge margin.
I love the Parodius series. So I wont say Gradius isn’t great.What platform are you guys using to emulate arcade shmups these days? Good old MAME, retroarch/fbneo, shmuparch?
>>12181381FBneo never betrayed me
>>12165679The thing about Gradius is that it's supposed to be like this epic battle against an insurmountable enemy requiring unshakable nerves of ice and iron determination, that's kind of just what it is.
>>12181381MAME has better autofire options than RetroArch so mostly that for older gamesFBNeo on RA tends to run CAVE games better and those already have autofire built in so for those I'll use RetroArchShmuparch is kind of a meme. Just set your runahead to 1 frame to delete the extra frame of lag that emulation adds and you'll be good 99% of the time.
>>12181381Final Burn Neo in RetroArch is afaik the highest possible quality of emulation you can get for supported titles. MAME may edge in absolute accuracy for a few systems, but at the cost of latency.
>>12181397>MAME may edge in absolute accuracy for a few systems, but at the cost of latency.MAME has had a low latency mode for a while. It's turned on by default in the /shmupg/ rom pack.
>>12181383>>12181397Thank you fellas, I appreciate it.>>12181396Good to know. I just got rid of my old pc and built a new one, rebuilding my shmup stuff from ground up. Fbneo it is
I've complained about it before but this fist fight in Sin and Punishment 2 is killing my enjoymentI go back and forth on whether Treasure are hacks
>>12181532My view as of right now is that Treasure are hacks except for Alien Soldier (which was made by one guy within the company so barely even a Treasure game)
>>12168310RetroArch has the worst autofire settings I've ever seen and they won't fix it despite multiple complaints and suggestions. "But muh niche applications that have to work across multiple cores and also the RetroPad system" FUCK THE RETROPAD JUST MAKE IT SIMPLER IDIOTS LET PEOPLE MAP MORE BUTTONS TO MORE THAN ONE FUNCTION OR FUNCTIONS TO MORE THAN ONE BUTTON FUCK YOU
>>12181381https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVl49TvdhnM>roms?mdk.cab (download the merged version)
Gradius progress updateRouted stage 4Double > Laser in basically every situation in this gamehttps://files.catbox.moe/x702n5.mp4I'm hopefully gonna get the clear soonish since this is the only hard stage in the gameThen I can finally play Gradius II
>>12182037You need laser for the the arm ball things in stage 5 was it? Double is all levels from 4 onwards except that. The weird blue space uterus thing you can use double on, but you need to have your options and laser is better for that.
>>12182225Nah I just tested it and Double works fine there. Also I always get Options before activating Double since without Options Double actually hurts you due to the lower fire-rate.
>>12182238Nice. Those things always were a pain in the ass for me.
>>12182238>>12182246Tried it with Laser and it definitely is a little easier, and I'd probably use Laser if I was restarting from the first checkpoint. But still, both are doable.
>>12182256You got to hit the discolored joint on the arm to stop them from firing. How are you playing? Arcade I'm assuming? Gradius or Nemesis?
>>12182280Arcade JP ROM version on Gradius Origins
To be honest you probably want laser for the last stage because its hit box is so ridiculous that it will literally kill enemies from behind. Try turning on hitbox viewer to see the hilarity of g1.
>>12182315I see, that's a brutal game, I think I replied earlier to you, I like the PCE console port but sometimes play Nemesis.If Origins has Nemesis, that's the non JP version. That game is much kinder on recovery and typically spams you with powerups after you die. For anyone complaining about Gradius syndrome.
>>12182354Nemesis has the recovery thing but the difficulty ramps up a lot faster. Idk if it still caps out the same as the JP version though
>>12182359Damn. Time to track down the original Gradius arcade ROM because I never actually played it.
So I want to learn a Yagawa game. I have managed to set up the Shottriggers version with shadPS4. Please tell me the beginner-friendly ships I should learn the game with.
>>12182420Wild Snail is the most beginner-friendly ship. Use button A+B+C when selecting it to make it faster and have a smaller hitbox.Miyamoto is also fairly good for beginners. Use button C for selecting to reduce hitbox size but not increase speed, since Miyamoto's already very fast.Gain is somewhat harder than the previous two, and usually makes the rank go up faster, but he's the best character for scoring and isn't bad for survival either. A little harder, but fun and has a great bomb and options, you're definitely not missing out on power. Only slightly slower than Miyamoto so use C or ABC.
>>12182420>Please tell me the beginner-friendly ships I should learn the game withThe default one?
Not retro but I just got Cotton Fantasy on the Switch, it's dirt cheap on sale right now.Wanted to also get Dariusburst: Another Chronicle EX+ but for reason it's not as low as it has been before so I guess it can wait.Always wanted to play a Cotton game and this with Reboot seem to be the best of the franchise. Dariusburst can wait until it's 12usd again.
>>12182582How's the input lag on Cotton Fantasy?
>>12182591I'll play it in a bit, I literally just purchased it
>>12182591I played on switch and it's pretty good, maybe 1f higher than steam (which I eventually double dipped). It's just a general good time - make sure you credit feed and beat the game with all the characters, because some of their stages you unlock are honestly even better than the default - and you can mix and match, choosing your route from all your stages.I still need to pick up Reboot 2...
>>12182582>>12182591Alright, finished my first run with Psyva Ria in four continues.I think I love this game, it's pretty fun, all the characters play differently and there's one for everybody and the game's humour is peak, got me laughing through all the cutscenes.I think I'll try to practice this one.
BumpGot past stage 4 of Gradius but then stupidly died on stage 5, the easiest stage. Literally impossible to recover because no power up capsules means you'll literally be too slow to dodge Big Core's attacks.
Look at this guyHe's so calm
GRADIUS 1CC GET!https://files.catbox.moe/pd2eit.mp4
>>12184501Grats, now play Parodius Da
>>12184506It's between that and Gradius IIFor Parodius Da! I might play the Saturn version instead of the arcade since the slowdown and rank system seem pretty bad in the arcade version
>>12184549Play arcade version, and just don't take more than one speed up until you are halfway done.
>Gradius 3
>>12184626genuinely no reason to move around like that once the wall has reached that state
>>12184629I somehow don't think that's the issue
>>12184631If he just stayed put in the little crevice to the bottom right he would've been fine
>>12165278>Why is the Gradius series so underrated amongst modern shmup fans?Shut up nigger, they aren't.
>>12167773>buying roms
>>12184894I said "get", not "buy".
>>12184660He should have been fine anyway since the cube should have stuck to the upper wall. He just happened to be in the perfect trajectory for it to stay between the hitboxes the whole way.
>>12167773How's Salamander 3?
>>12185257A lot easier than the rest of the series (at least on the first loop) but a true work of excellence anyway
>>12184626Kek what a shitty game
why is it that with hundreds and hundreds of shmups to play so many newbs get hung up on Gradius III? Or think it's a good entry level game? When it is infamously extremely punishing?
>>12185803Among other things, the flyer just goes hard.
>>12185806Gradius III art is great
>>12185819>>12185806looks like a Judas Priest album cover
>>12185803>>12185806>>12185819The SNES version actually is a good entry-level shmupConsole shmups and console ports in general tend to be easier than arcade games
>>12165449How is it funny? Did you mean fun?
>>12185826Great taste.
>>12186113Wonder if he'd beat Tarkus.
>>12186178This has to be a shmup boss in some game, somewhere. It just has to be.
>>12185826You aren't that far off
>>12180457Despite his silly hairstyle, he is one of the better shmup channels who isn't a major fag.
>>12186196
>>12186272>who isn't a major fagFiguratively speaking
>>12165278Gradius is too slow to be interesting, and ironically it's so slow that newcomers to genre find it difficult, as they can't even steer to where they want to go.
>>12186894Did you think everyone else would just agree with you since they've never played Gradius for more than quite literally one secondBecause you realize you get speed ups within one second of starting the game rightIt's the first power upFucking retard
>>12186935And surely this powerup is permanent?
>>12186937Yeah, if you're good at the fucking game.
>>12186941>newcomers
>>12186937>>12186941>>12186945The point is, absolutely no one spends more than 1% of any Gradius game at 0 speed, you disingenuous faggot. If you die without a power up capsule you just survive until you get one and WOW you have speed again.
>>12186894but its too fast for me once i get a few speed upgrades
How come when I play Gradius II the shield is red but when other people play it the shield is green
>>12187101boys get green, girls get redyou're a girl lmaoo
>>12187101Different ship types get different colors for shield
Giga Wing is such an incredibly good game I feel unworthy of playing it
>>12187985The whole trilogy is like that, iktf. Peak after peak and the rush from reflecting a billion bullets into a nigga is unmatched.
What is the point of Pentarou? Almost a perfectly balanced roster except for that shitter.
>>12189226No shmup is complete without a meme ship
>>12185827The revenge bullets in that game are pretty bullshit
>>12175571You don't hate journos enough.
>>12189438Game journos are a good reminder that there's always somebody worse at vidya than you
Why doesn't Gradius II or IV get much love? Everyone always says I, III, or V are their favorites. Are II and IV simply too "safe"?
>>12189512I see II around occasionally and I thought it was a better starting point for the series mysef: not as basic as the first one that only has one boss, but still obviously more primitive and much easier than Gradius III.IV is definitely the one nobody really cares about.
>>12189512It's good but supposedly very hard, like worse than III. I haven't played past level 2 but it seemed cool.Fun fact: it was going to be ported to N64 as Gradius 64 but got cancelled because interest in N64 was dying down or something and was thought to not be so profitable. I wish it made it though, then N64 could have another gaem.
>>12189616>it was going to be ported to N64 as Gradius 64 but got cancelled because interest in N64 was dying down or somethingIt was 1999 so ehhh... yeah I guess that's true. There was like 2 years of life left in it but what do you remember from 2000 and 2001 other than some Nintendo games and Tony HawkAlso Gradius IV was on pretty high-end hardware for the time, fucking PowerPC with Voodoo cards
>>12189619It actually still looks really good today. Super clean anti-aliasing Dreamcast style graphics but better.
Anyone playing R-Type Delta?Is the port worth it?
