>>12176914
OOT was seen as a teenagers game, whereas WW was seen as a game for babies and fags. The LameCube really was a step down for all mainline Nintendo franchises.

in 1998 we were all too busy playing our based psx games to give a shit about the n64

>>12176914
people just saw a weird green kid screaming in some ugly forest in a slow easy game
teens were playing tekken,ff7,tony hawk, resident evil, mgs, gran tourism, sotn

To the point where oot not only looked generic and dull but a bit gay too. I knew some who thought the n64 was weaker than a snes because it's games were ugly
I'm not saying this in a shitposter way but that's my observations and memories

>>12176914
Well we were children back then, but it was like DBZ

>>12176914
It was viewed as a game everyone could play and enjoy. Me and my 8 year old friends loved it, my late high school aged brother and his friends loved it, my mom and dad loved it... No one really had any age-related judgements to level at it, everyone just universally thought it was excellent at every age range.

>>12176914
It was seen as the same as Mario 64, revolutionary but inoffensive.

based Mature Gamers

no one played or liked OOT. everyone in 1998 were playing cool, mature games for sophisticated adults. I know because I was totally there and can give you my first hand account. to this day, no one has ever played, much less enjoyed a nintendo game.

>>12176914
It was lord of dem rangz for huwhite children.

>>12176914
It's a game for ten year olds who pretend they're 17

>>12176914
Teenage/PS1 appeal.

>>12176914
I disagree with the premise that Super Mario 64 was a "children's game". It was enjoyed by all ages.

>>12176914
A game for kids, obviously

>>12177157
>inoffensive.
The original launch version of OoT has a few eyebrow raising events in the game.

-scantily clad and suggestive great fairy
-various pagan symbols a conservative christian household might not be fond of
-doubly so for the depiction of goddesses and the creation of hyrule
-shadow temple
-bottom of the well
-ganon coughing up blood
-fire temple chanting in arabic, Islamic imagery

It's no Doom or Mortal Kombat, but I didn't go around reminding my Christian parents that I was playing a game with this type of content.

>>12177270
Nobody at any point found any of these objectionable, and it's only due to internet gossip and fanfiction that they are considered to be noteworthy.

>>12176914
Definitely more of a teenager appeal but kids played it too

This was 1998 after all

>>12177301
>Definitely more of a teenager appeal but kids played it too
>This was 1998 after all
Teens played half life, fallout, metal gear solid, baldurs gate, resident evil, starcraft

Unless they were coddled by some nutcase mom raising a daughter

for kids, obviously. but more like, 10-year-olds than 8-year-olds. i thought it was this complex "older kids" game like Final Fantasy.

did the Japanese release have that notation where it spells out the kanji? i feel like that concretely dispels any revisionism.

>>12176914
Neither Zelda nor Mario have ever been viewed as "children's games" where I'm from, just games that everyone could enjoy.

>>12177312
but they're children's games, mate.

i can read The Hobbit and Harry Potter, i like them. they're children's books though, aren't they? even if "adults can enjoy them" or even the ol' "there's ______ for the adults!" (e.g. some risque joke somewhere).

this is why i call it revisionism, because under-30s have grown up with this stuff. Tetris is an "everyone" game. Zelda is for kids.

>>12177316
children's books are shit like "everybody poops" or "the hungry caterpillar"

things that have mass appeal are not "children's books/toys" i.e. intended only for children, just because they're written so that children can also enjoy them.

this is why I call you a shitposting faggot, because calling these things "for children" is purposefully dishonest and demeaning to the all-ages audience that you well know enjoys them

>>12177323
i'm not trying to belittle anyone anon. obviously there are tiers from The Very Hungry Caterpillar up to The Hobbit. someone might ask why YOU draw a line, the Peter Rabbit books are cute and have great illustrations, surely anyone can enjoy them?

i enjoyed Mario and Zelda as a kid. from 12-20 or so i was too embarrassed to play children's games. then i got back into them. pretty normal.

>>12177272
anon my brother literally refused to watch monster inc because he said "that's how real life demon possessed you in the closet bro"

No idea where he picked up that idea from

>>12177326
You were possessed by a real life demon in a closet, Rajeesh?

>>12177325
things certainly aren't "for children" just because you personally felt peer pressured to claim you didn't like them as a teenager. my friends and I were playing smash bros and mario kart/party and talking about zelda etc in high school and college and having a blast.

here's a simple question you can ask yourself to determine if something is made for children: "Did the creators of this thing state or advertise that it's exclusively for children?" If the answer isn't "Yes" then it's not a "children's toy".
Don't think too hard about it.

>>12177308
>did the Japanese release have that notation where it spells out the kanji?
It didn't have furigana. That doesn't tell us much, however, as furigana was not common in 90s video games. A much clearer indicator of the game's target demo is the choice of kanji. By that metric, your estimate of ~10 is pretty much on point. Skimming through the script, the overwhelming majority of kanji are the sort you'd learn in elementary school. There are some kanji that aren't formally taught until middle/high school, but that kids of any age who play fantasy games would like be familiar with (魔, 妖, and 巨 are some examples I found). But overwhelmingly, yeah, stuff you'd have been taught by sixth grade.

>>12177307
believe it or not some teens in the 90s werent pc virgins like you and your friends

>>12177316
literally every video game is made for children. especially in the 90s.

>>12177347
literally every shitpost is made by an lgbtqp or an indian. especially in the 2020s.

>>12177342
>>12177326
>>12177325
>>12177323
>>12177316
The not peer pressured pussy is right, God why are there so many insecure retards here?
I was playing Mario and Crash while also playing the likes of Mortal Kombat and GTA because those were GOOD GAMES and I would be a retard if I didn't play good games because some retarded kid didn't like them, it's almost like I can think for myself instead of being a npc.
>>12177307
>Baldur's gate
>Fallout
Lol no, the only rpg pc fags were playing was Diablo 2, none of that nerd shit you mentioned.

OoT fanboy slowly realizing he's been obsessing over a children's game the whole time

Give him time to cope, lads

>>12177326
Tell your brother I said that nobody should tell him a handicap can't change the world, but for you I'll say you're a stupid ass hole.

>>12176914
I think it was seen as a kid's game, but one that a lot of older people still played anyway. There were definitely people who'd pass over it for being too "kiddy", but there were also more than enough people who liked it that it became one of the most acclaimed games of its time.
Something being seen as "for kids" doesn't automatically preclude other audiences from enjoying it. People used to love Disney films before they started ruining Star Wars and Marvel.

>>12177270
>-scantily clad and suggestive great fairy
My mom did raise an eyebrow at this, but it wasn't enough for her to stop us from playing the game. I wouldn't say it was considered OFFENSIVE.

>-various pagan symbols a conservative christian household might not be fond of
>-doubly so for the depiction of goddesses and the creation of hyrule
Literally no one actually noticed or cared. I had friends who couldn't play Pokemon because their parents literally considered it Satanic, but they were still allowed to play OoT with no issue.

>-shadow temple
>-bottom of the well
Pretty much the same as above. No one was offended by the spooky parts of the game being spooky.

>-ganon coughing up blood
It was such an absolute non-issue that I didn't even think about it until after I learned that it was censored later, which everyone universally agreed was retarded and unnecessary.

>-fire temple chanting in arabic, Islamic imagery
Again, NOT A SINGLE PERSON noticed or cared. In 1998, no one knew shit about Muslims or their imagery or their chants or whatever else. Even the most hardcore of Christian households had no concerns over Islamic shit because no one knew any Muslims or anything about Islam whatsoever.

>>12176914
OOT originally shipped with a blood version, had deep cinematic commercials and out of the gate was already being called the greatest game of all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY4I31YpVqk

>>12176914
it was viewed as a fantastic game is you had a soul

>>12176914
gaming in general was for kids AND teens. the oldest gamers were in college by then, tops. some of the older crowd appreciated the technological progression, but others preferred to experience it through stuff like star wars or goldeneye. all kids and teens liked it.

some never grew up passed it, sadly.

>>12177810
This. It was viewed as a hellacool Mediaeval Anime dungeon-crawler. Basically Akira mixed with something Harry Potter or something, it wasn't the cutesy snes bullshit at all. It was fashionable without having a cheesy anachronistic steampunk feel like Dark Cloud 2, it seemed like they got something very grounded and highly cinematic. Even if they were blown away by Shenmue a year later the gameplay in Zelda 64 is much more in-depth. Miyamoto scaled back the combat to appeal to kiddos but the more complex dungeons probably alienated under-12s (and rightfully so). Following Zeld 64 and Majora's Mask, they veered hard into pokemon tardbait and now they're basically a funko pop company.

>>12176925
fpbp

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Isn't it depressing that we have zoomers asking these kind of questions now?

>>12178002
Dumb larper

They literally made Twilight Princess more teen themed because people wanted more OoT and MM instead of Kid Waker.

>>12176914
Yeah, it was marketed towards teenagers/young adults. Everybody grew up with Zelda on NES or SNES anyway.

>>12176914
idk anon, in 1998 i was only 10 years old and I played this game, so you tell me. Granted I didn't get the big gorrons sword without a guide, but I was able to get it with a gamefaq guide that i printed out from radio shack.

>>12177307
I don't think you went out much as a teenager
The average teenager in the late 90s were playing the console games
PC nerds in the 90s were a small minority that are more like exactly what you described there and the ones that were young PC playing teenagers were an even smaller niche.

>>12177307
Playstation games were definitely the main teenager console with N64 still being popular

PC games like Baldur's Gate and Fallout? Unless you had a parent or older sibling that knew that stuff its very unlikely you were playing those games as a teenager in the 90s
unless you were coddled by some nutcase mother of course

>>12178380
>one of the only honest replies in the thread
>"dumb larper"
so sorry i didnt post some bullshit meme response or an ai generated one.

>>12176914
It was viewed as a tranny game

All video games are for children.

>>12179151
/thread

>>12177362
i think it's more impressive to be insecure and then outgrow it, than it is to have never ever been like that.

you were lucky, i guess? most teenagers are awkward and care about what people think of them.

>>12176914
It's simply the best game ever made

“PS1 Appeal”?

People liked Zelda. It wasn’t seen as really “edgy” or dark or anything. Soul Reaver or Shadowman is more up that alley. Kingsley’s Adventure is more whimsical. Alundra is in the same area as Zelda maybe a bit less dark and edgy. So the Playstation has good games on either side of it in tone. But OOT is the best 3d action rpg of that generation, so good it makes people all weird and ask about its “PS1 Appeal”

“Teenage Appeal” is kind of made up nonsense too. People have different tastes at all ages, and sometimes from day to day. Tony Hawk had teenage appeal to me. Some people preferred Conker’s Bad Fur Day. Teenagers are not a monolith. “PS1 Appeal” is even dumber. I think the PS1’s strength was it variety and versatility, not just edgy, dark games. I mean think of all the colorful, japanese shmups that are definitely for adults in terms of difficulty on the system.

I would even push back that Mario is totally for children. It’s more like a cartoon like Road Runner, bugs bunny etc. A simple endeavor that can appeal to all ages. Surely a parent and their kid can play any of the classic Mario games and have fun. It’s not like a kid turns 13 and can only consume Resident Evil, CoD, Mortal Kombat, Doom and GTA. Parts of Zelda had mild horror elements and dark fantasy. OOT is not that different in tone to Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings movies. From whimsical fantasy to dark fantasy.

>>12176914
It was seen as vaporware for a non-existent console.

>>12177776
>In 1998, no one knew shit about Muslims or their imagery or their chants or whatever else.
There were a handful of black people who converted to Islam during and after the 60s (Muhammad Ali being the most notable example), so at least some people who played OOT thought it looked/sounded familiar.

>>12177270
Ly the Fae having a bodysuit the same color as her skin in Rayman 2 was far more noticeable than any of these.
Not to mention the literal river of corpses level in that game.

>>12183269
Still, in terms of religious things to watch out for or be offended by in media in the satanic panic sense, Islam was not remotely on anyone's radar until after 9/11.

>>12182449
I don't think there were many adults obsessed with Mario in 1996. Maybe there were some, but it's nothing like today.

>>12176914
I knew grown men who worked for my dad who played OoT in the late 90s

>>12176942
>teens were playing tekken,ff7,tony hawk, resident evil, mgs, gran tourism, sotn
This, fpwp.
Tons of PC games also. Thief: The Dark Project came out a couple of weeks after OOT.

>>12176925
That the visual design of Wind Waker is for literal toddlers doesn't make OOT for teens. It's for children to preteen just like all the preceding Zeldas. (Though the NES Zeldas have some difficulty appeal).

>>12177157
Mario 64 was seen as an "all-ages" game.
OOT was seen as a childrens' game.

Mario 64 was seen by most, despite its shortcomings, as infinitely more revolutionary than OOT. People really forget just how LATE Ocarina of Time was released in the console cycle. It was the very end of 1998. OOT was impressive for sure, foreshadowing what lots of 6th gen console games would be like when the tech was actually ready for it. But it released into a crowded market of many other innovative, high-quality games.

OOT is really the point when it became clear how divorced the Nintendo audience had become from everyone else.

>>12183564
You are correct
>>12182449
>“Teenage Appeal” is kind of made up nonsense too.
Not in the slightest.
Yes, everyone """CAN""" play and enjoy any kind of game. I am in my 40s and play games with my kids all the time. I play kids' games from my childhood for nostalgia and so on.

But you have to be in complete denial of reality (common in the postmodern world, unfortunately) to fail to see the difference between Zelda and Metal Gear Solid or Thief: The Dark Project. Final Fantasy VII is for teenagers. Zelda is for children. Anyone can play them, but they still have a core audience and OOT's sweet spot is around 8-12 while FFVII is maybe 12-18.

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>>12183850
>Mario 64 was seen as an "all-ages" game.
>OOT was seen as a childrens' game.
How in the actual fuck do you look at these two games and think Mario 64 is the more mature one, lol

>>12177776
By your logic, almost no video games are "objectionable". Can you name any other than like the Doom controversy or Mortal Kombat?

>>12176914
In the 90s, people weren't concerned with video games being "childish" or "immature". This was purely an early 2000s shift, coinciding with "le mature games for mature gamers" era.

>>12177047
this. as a kid i ultimately viewed zelda through the same lense as i viewed anime, JRPGs and other weebshit.

i even used to do zelda fan art and fanfiction as a kid. unfortunately none of it was ever posted online for posterity as i didn't have access to (or was aware of) platforms where i could post it at the time.

>>12176925
The young teens who played OOT stuck with the series through WW and grew up to be women.

>>12176914
You can always find some faggots to this day who never grew out of their console war phase and never stopped obsessing over Zelda being for children because he's a green fairy boy or some shit. They're probably posting here. But in general anyone who played OoT liked it.

>>12184182
Anyway what's up with all these threads with kids (or niggers as I like to call them) asking what things used to be like, this board is for 30+ people only, understand? Because if you don't, I'm going to make child labor legal again.

>>12183880
>By your logic
It has nothing to do with "logic." I'm recalling my own memories of that time and explaining them to you. That's the difference between you and me: You're looking at a list of potentially objectionable things and trying to logically guess what people would have thought before you were born, but I lived it and can just tell you what people thought.

>Can you name any other than like the Doom controversy or Mortal Kombat?
I named Pokemon right in my post, that was a big one. Sex scenes in Mass Effect were another big (non-retro) controversy. Other than that, it was always been a minority of religious fundamentalists who largely had problems with any games, and it rarely made national headlines. It was just some parents telling their kids they can't play this or that game. Ocarina of Time was not one of those games.

>>12183880
>>12184535
Oh, and of course, when GTA went 3D and got popular that was another huge controversy that was all over the place.

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>>12183862
I didn't say it was more mature. Said it was all-ages.

The difference is that Mario 64 is primarily a low-investment action game while OOT is an "immersive world" full of story cutscenes and NPCs and little baby tier puzzles. You turn on Mario and after like a 30 second intro with Lakitu to establish the camera you're off running and jumping around the castle. You can enjoy Mario 64 for 15 minutes or a few hours. Sure, you maybe shouldn't play bing bing wahoo on an airplane with the sound up without feeling shame but you can play it on Saturday morning with your kids and have a lot of fun.

With OOT you have to engage with the dialog and the world-building. You have to commit to the world and its story in a way you don't with Mario 64 (or, frankly, even previous Zelda games). If you're looking for a high-investment, immersive game to commit to, the childlike elements of OOT are more relevant (and off-putting), when compared to alternatives.

>>12184537
>>12184535
I'll give you GTA but Mass Effect sex scenes were never really controversial, and the only people that banged a drum about Pokemon were extremely religious folk. In Saudi Arabia for example it got a lot of hate and misinfo about names and meanings. I'm guessing you grew up in a Mormon state or something.

>You're looking at a list of potentially objectionable things and trying to logically guess what people would have thought before you were born, but I lived it and can just tell you what people thought.
If that were the case, you'd concede that OoT removed the Zoroastrian chanting because of controversy in which Muslims thought it was Muslim chanting. You're not being objective. You're being selective.

>>12176925
Do you literally do anything other than seethe about the gamecube all day?

>>12184535
>>12184537
manhunt also had some sort of controversy didnt it? for being "too violent" or something, and it getting an M or AO rating or something, and/or getting pulled from shelves? i think action got taken pretty quickly, and it was a game with a more targeted audience, so i dont think it got that "big" or broad in the coverage, but it was definitely something that happened.

i dont remember pokemon being much of a controversy other than "why are our children suddenly so obsessed with this? i dont get it" and then trying to construe it to be something nefarious.

>>12176914
If you played on PC/PS1 it was generally unimpressive.

>>12177270
Most American post I've seen, lmao.

>>12176914
It was groundbreaking and most people can get past the lack of action during their first playthrough

>wasn't alive in 1998
You must be at least 40 years old to post here, OP.

>>12184895
>Zoroastrian chanting
This is the absolute first I've heard of this. Please explain what makes the chant Zoroastrian and not Muslim. What language is it in even?

>>12176914
it was just a normal game from what I remember. even though N64 was far less popular than PS1, kids still had it and talked about OoT and Super Smash Bros. and stuff. Nintendo didn't really become cringe and kiddy until the GameCube.

>>12187630
yeah, I've always heard that it was a Muslim chant in Arabic. maybe the confusion is because Zoroastrianism literally has fire temples
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_temple

>>12178667
>The average teenager in the late 90s were playing the console games
Yeah, Tekken, Resident Evil, Goldeneye, Gran Turismo, and sports games (Madden, NBA live, etc)
>PC nerds in the 90s were a small minority
Not as small as you imagine. It's small compared to the total number of little kids playing Mario and Zelda but Half-Life and Starcraft had sales competitive with top 10 titles on the N64.

>>12183857
I can see the difference in tone. But I would say Zelda is more for all ages, while Metal Gear Solid isn’t. Zelda OOT is a like a pg rated film. Metal Gear Solid is like an R rated film. That doesn’t mean OOT is for children. Adults see pg rated films for reasons other than their kids and nostalgia.

>>12176914
Ocarina of Time was seen as a kids game, but an older kids game...Like, instead of 6 and 7 year olds playing Mario, it was 11 and 12 year olds playing Ocarina.

>>12176942
>I knew some who thought the n64 was weaker than a snes because it's games were ugly
Those kids you knew were fucking retarded. I remember never even touching my Genesis again after getting an N64 because it played Banjo and Goldeneye.

>>12188090
>I can see the difference in tone.
But I'm not talking about the difference in tone.
>But I would say Zelda is more for all ages
You could, but again, you're ignoring the part where OOT makes you play as a little kid and engage with a world that constantly treats you like a little kid, where Mario 64 is primarily a physics sandbox collect-a-thon that interacts with you only briefly here and there.

I was 19 when OOT came out. I had this experience first-hand and the sentiment was shared with many of my videogame-playing peers. Reactions to Zelda 64 were all very lukewarm. Nobody even bothered to own it themselves, we all just had younger siblings and cousins etc. who had it. And yes I know you have some older brother or uncle manchild who was in their 20s and obsessed with OOT but I'm telling you that was absolutely not the norm for the young adult (late teens and early 20s) crowd. That goes for normalfags and "gamer nerds" both. Normalfag 19 year olds with an N64 were playing Goldeneye and sports/racing games. Gamer nerds had access to Playstation and PCs with dozens of other great games more appropriately tuned for their age range.

One of the starkest dividing lines between gamer generations is whether you played Ocarina and Pokemon. GenX and the earliest millennials largely did NOT play either one, while the majority of core millennials did.

>>12176914
i was 14 when it came out, the first person i knew who had it was a much older cousin

>>12176914
>In 1998, was OOT viewed as a children's game like Mario
Yes. remember that the PS1 was marketed to people in their 20s the N64 was marketing branslop franchises to kids with overprotective parents.

>>12176939
truthpill psx and pc ruled that era hardmode no one was playing their CDs on a N64

>>12189601
>>But I would say Zelda is more for all ages
>You could, but again, you're ignoring the part where OOT makes you play as a little kid and engage with a world that constantly treats you like a little kid
This. Frankly adults that are obsessed with it are creepy.

As a 13yo intellectual the game seemed more mature than banjo and mario

>>12189743
You don't have to 13 or an intellectual to figure that one out

>>12189718
>Frankly adults that are obsessed with it are creepy.
Mentally stunted lol

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NES Zelda was for kids too, kids were just smarter, more adventurous and resilient than they were in 1998.

>>12176914
It was seen as a kiddie game, a downgrade from the snes. I remember because I was 12 years old back then. They put OOT inside of Mcdonalds playpens section and little tykes would go in there and fiddle around while their parents ate clown shit. That is the ultimate sign that its a kiddie game, when you place it inside of Mcdees playpens. I remember thinking I was too old for Zelda and I was past that kid stage, going into smoking cigarettes, weed and drinking booze at 12 years old and playing "mature" games like parasite eve.

On the other hand PS1 and games like FFVII or Resident Evil, were just seen inside of video rental stores in the sections where you could rent a ps1 for an hour for a measly $1.

>>12191570
>I gave myself brain damage when I was 12
yeah we can tell

Why are ocarina fanboys always so hyper-sensitive and defensive?

>>12184903
He does it because people fall for his bait every time

>>12189601

>Not talking about tone
So we’re talking about the age range a game is intended for without talking about the game’s tone? What’s the difference between Kingsley’s Adventure (a Zelda-like that actually is for young players) and Soul Reaver (rated M)? Well, Soul Reaver has better combat and fmvs, but the reason it’s for different age groups is story, setting and violence. Make Raziel a cute animal and change the story to Kain stealing his fruit and what you have left is the same gameplay mechanics in a kids game.

>Playing as a kid makes the game for kids
Oh come on. Are Jap characters only for Jap players? You might just lack an imagination. Most of the game is played as an adult anyways.

>treats you like a kid.
I get the feeling you just don’t like Action RPGs, which is fine. The player is meant to get something different out of them than a sandbox platformer or a game that needs timing like a shmup.

Exploration, puzzle solving, using new mechanics to progress, combat, etc. It’s not everyone’s thing and it’s not even really my thing, but OOT definitely does it well. That’s why people liked it everywhere except this board.

You mean like handholding? I don’t really see how OOT treats the player more like a kid than Soul Reaver, the King’s Field’s, Shadowman or any other adult only Action RPGs of the time. Virtual Hydlide throws you in the middle of nowhere and tells you nothing about what you’re doing, (I guess that’s a bit like being an adult).

A more open world sanbox game is a dev decision but it doesn’t mean it’s adult oriented. Metal Gear Solid is completely linear compared to OOT. AND If you ever don’t know what to do in this completely linear game just push the help button to call Campbell and he tells you.

Normal people in 1998-1999 played both Resident Evil 2 and Crash, and so on. My first 4 N64 games in 97 were Doom 64, Mario, Goldeneye & Wave Race. That’s 2 murder simulators & 2 games for all ages.

Why are ocarina haters always so insistent and rentfree-having?

>>12176914
Yes

>>12176914
It was most definitely seen as an adult game. No toddlers were playing the gold cart, I assure you. My best friend's Boeing engineer dad was playing it with us.

>>12191801
I gots me theories:
1: they lack an N64 and the gold cart, so they are zoomers with massive FOMO feels.
2: they lack a Gamecube, see 1

I think the Nintendo=baby association is mostly from the GameCube era

N64 didn't have that stigma,tons of FPS games,wrestling games and stuff like that

>>12191797
>So we’re talking about the age range a game is intended for without talking about the game’s tone?
Holy shit you are retarded.
The point is to answer the question:
Why is Mario 64 is "all ages" while Ocarina of Time is "for kids?"
To do that we have to look PAST tone.
How do people as dumb as you even fucking figure out how to post here?

Looking only at tone, Mario 64 seems even more childish than Zelda.
But if you look even a little bit past that, you start seeing differences.


>Playing as a kid makes the game for kids
>Oh come on. Are Jap characters only for Jap players?
No, you come on. The analogy isn't the same at all.
"Adult plays a game for kids"
"Anglo plays a game for Nips"
Not the same, is it?

So YES.
If a game features a child protagonist, that is a major signal that the game is for kids.
In Mario 64, you play as the cartoon mascot, Mario.
Mario (technically an "adult") is effectively ageless, similar to mascots like Sonic or Crash Bandicoot.
In OOT, you're specifically cast as a child.

>"treats you like a kid."
>You mean like handholding?
No, I mean you're roleplaying a child.
The Kokiri are ALL children.
You're the BOY without a fairy.
Every sound link makes is a little boy sound.
Everyone/tree/owl/furry you meet condescends to Link as would an adult to a child.
You do little chores and tasks for people.
This pattern continues for an HOURS until finally you get the Master Sword and can grow up.
Ocarina is specifically a coming-of-age theme narrative aimed at a younger child.

This does not happen in Mario 64. In Mario, the minimal dialog is primarily functional, with a goofy and lighthearted tone.
"Hey Bro! You look fast, wanna race?"
"You've got 30 power stars! Now you can open the door with the big star!"

"All Ages" vs "For Kids"

>>12191918
>No, I mean you're roleplaying a child.
>The Kokiri are ALL children.
>You're the BOY without a fairy.
>Every sound link makes is a little boy sound.
Now I understand. The only way to play OoT properly is to start playing it as a 10 year old, reach the Master Sword, then put the game away for 7 years before continuing to play. Now to figure out how to send my save file back in time so 10 year old me can go through the Bottom of the Well and half of the Spirit Temple.

>>12191908
Yes. Magazines at that time would have mario/zelda/pokemon/kirby etc on the cover for Nintendo and gta, mgs, etc for playstation. I think the most adult game for Nintendo was re4

>>12191908
Obvious zoomer is obvious. Yes, those slightly more mature games existed on the N64. No, it didn't stop anyone from calling it a kiddie console. The console wars were not so rational.

>>12176914
My dad called it the faggy little elf game

>>12191931
You're an idiot and stubbornly refusing to accept the very obvious point.
And of course continuing to make cringeworthy logical errors.
1. Adults (especially young males) find roleplaying a child to be off-putting
2. Children are usually fine roleplaying a teenager, especially given the youthful start.

The relevant concept is that of a FILTER.
The Young Link sequence filters older players in a way that Mario does not.
There might be later portions of OOT that filter younger players for various reasons (eg Water Temple), but there's nothing about adult link specifically that functions as a filter for younger players already invested in the game.

>>12191918
>Role-playing as a kid makes the game for kids.
What better game to be for all ages than one where you role-play as different ages? Once you’re past the easy dungeons, you play as an adult. The kid portion isn’t all about being talked down to anyways. You go into a well and fight the undead while surrounded by torture devices, you spend a lot of time stabbing giant dinosaurs and spiders. There’s some truth to what you’re saying about the dialog, but its not like baby’s first game.

I agree with you on something finally that there is a coming of age theme. So if a games target audience its all about plot and themes and not tone (at least when it suits you) then let’s talk about the later part of the game. Link returns to the happy places of his youth to find them changed. The forest is haunted with the kokiri hiding indoors, Zora’s domain is a frozen wasteland, Hyrule Castle Town is infested with zombies, Lake Hylia is cursed, an asshole took over the ranch. Kakirikos on fire. Zelda herself is a changed person out of fear and guilt.

The theme is a loss of the innocence of childhood, and the responsibility that adults carry to make things right. Kids can pick up on that and maybe learn something about growing up, but it’s surely an experience adults can actually CONNECT to. Growing up, in the sense of the loss of innocence, of seeing corruption around you, of responsibilty, that doesn’t stop when you’re 20 or 30 or 50. The game is spent in these corrupted places while the protagonist tries to make them right. I think Shakesphere’s Hamlet has similar themes. I’m saying adults can relate to the plot and not just based on nostalgia.

It’s a game for all ages. It’s a good game. Outside of here thats pretty unanimous. I’m not the biggest action rpg fan but I’ve played enough that I can see how Zelda clearly was the best at the time, and I dont get why posters here loathe it, other than wanting to be contrarian.

>>12191931
That guy wasnt me lol. Im definitely a retarded idiot and wont argue that point.

>>12192074
>The Young Link sequence filters older players in a way that Mario does not.
You're missing the part where Mario is Cartoony Bullshit: The Game and Zelda is not.

>>12192074
I was only making a joke, friend.

>>12176914
Most people neither knew or cared about it because they were on PCs and PS1s here gaming was happening and evolving, only a child with the limited persepctive using what was a price gouging children console with last generation media (the N64)would have a different and incorrect prespective.

>>12192076
I hope for your sake thats chatgpt because if you actually types that pile of pseud nonsense it may indicate you have brain tumour.

>>12176914
90's kids didn't turn into jaded wannabe adults yet that happened ln the 6th gen

>>12192386
Mario 64 is 3D platforming that anyone can play and enjoy. If you were a teenager and played Mario 64 in 1996 or early 1997, you probably enjoyed it because the smooth, comfortable, natural controls were unlike anything you'd ever played before. It was fun and satisfying to run and jump through the colorful environments (and get shot out of cannons, slide down snowy slopes, etc). You weren't playing for the cartoony bullshit, you were playing for everything else and because it was the bundled launch title.

You probably expected to enjoy Mario for a few months and then move onto other games as you did with Mario World on the SNES. Shadows of the Empire was much closer to the look and feel you wanted and probably played that more than Mario. But you still enjoyed Mario for what it was. What you didn't realize in 1996 to early 1997 was that, as a 16-17 year old, you were rapidly aging out of Nintendo's target audience and unlike previous generations, the 3rd party developers were going to be very scarce on the N64 and most of the good games were going to be on other platforms.

So when, by very end of 1998 when the long-anticipated Zelda 64 finally came out, you saw the game focused on futzing around with a bunch of Santa Clause elves and doing little chores for villagers instead of fighting tektites, wizrobes and an endless array of ruthless creatures like its predecessors, you were likely to give it a pass and play Resident Evil 2 or Half-Life instead.

>Zelda is not [cartoony bullshit]
It most assuredly is.

No point in giving an honest answer to OP's question since the thread is just full of zoomers ignoring people who were alive then to tell us all what actually happened before they were born.

>>12191556
Or they just didn't had any other games, Zelda 1 is not a hard game

>>12195748
Says who? Give it to a child and see how well they do.

>>12195748
objectively less hand-holding than Ocarina.

Enjoyed by all. I was 13 and had trouble finding it in stores that holiday season in 98 because it was sold out.

>>12195804
>it was sold out
Just like Tickle Me Elmo.

>>12195806
All ages can tickle elmo

>>12195806
>A false equivalence or false equivalency is an informal fallacy in which an equivalence is drawn between two subjects based on flawed, faulty, or false reasoning. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency. Colloquially, a false equivalence is often called "comparing apples and oranges.

>>12176914
most people with pcs and ps1s did not give a shit about kids stuff on n64s, yes, well done,you finally got it.

>>12195806
kek

>>12195813
The false equivalence is saying that a game selling out everywhere means it must be for all ages. He's only pointing out that kids-only things can sell out, too.

>>12195827
>no u

>>12195831
This is not a "no u" argument, these are just the facts. Pointing out that kids-only items can sell out everywhere is not a false equivalence, but saying that something selling out everywhere determines what age bracket it's for definitely is. You can't tell what age bracket a product is intended for by sales numbers alone; kids-only things can be popular enough to sell out, all-ages things can be popular enough to sell out, adults-only things can be popular enough to sell out... it's just a completely incorrect train of thought.

In 1998, all vidya was viewed as a children's toy by normalfaggots like (You) OP

I had OOT has a kid, but never got much into the game. Too much reading and puzzles. I was into Mario 64, Banjo, and Goldeneye more

>>12195871
>saying that something selling out everywhere determines what age bracket it's for definitely is.
Technically that's not a false equivalence that's just retarded (technically non sequitor).

>>12195878
This but people weren't desperately trying to seem mature out of their own insecurities

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You faggots are in your 30s and you're arguing about games being for babies or not like fucking middle schoolers
Jesus Christ

>>12198029
>You faggots are in your 30s
The minimum cutoff to officially be a teenager (13 years old) when Ocarina of Time was released is birth year of 1985, tardanon.

>>12198026
Yeah. That didn't start until the early 2000s.

>>12176914
100% "kid's game"

Game journalists were jerking it off but it came across as like a Pixar thing, "this kid's game is so good adults can enjoy it" style.

>>12199031
*this does not imply any judgement on my part either way, just stating how I remember it.

>>12176914
No one I knew cared about it people were playing stuff like warcraft and diablo, unreal, resident evil silent hill and wipeout

>>12198029

Don't take the Lords name in vain.

>>12195813
shut the fuck up

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>>12199049

>>12199272
Peace be with you

So who's behind the cubebashing?
Is it Auster or just some schizo fag from the Famits/v/ generals?

>>12176914
Definitely older appeal

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For kids, for adults? No. For everyone. The first perfect game.

>>12178691
>PC games like Baldur's Gate and Fallout? Unless you had a parent or older sibling that knew that stuff its very unlikely you were playing those games as a teenager in the 90s
We got BG2 on launch. My brother was a teen at the time. He was just ahead of the curve, but really it was just called the internet, bro.

>>12195789
They literally put a guide for the first three or four dungeons in the manual. That is hand-holdy as fuck.

>>12178691
No? Fallout got previewed in game magazines, it wasn't super obscure. That's how I learned about it. The screenshots were mesmerizing and I needed to have it. And yes, that's just me, but then I let all of my friends full install the game off the disk, so everyone enjoyed it.

>>12176914
I had both and there was really not a single game on the ps1 looked as good or was as immersive as OOT/MM

It wasn't until Morrowind that a game dethroned them in the immersion department.

>>12201915
>optional material in the manual that's explicitly stated to only be for first time players who get stuck too badly means the game itself is holding your hand
You have it exactly backward. Zelda 1 holds your hand so little that the people putting together the manual thought you might need help. OoT needs no such supplementary assistance because the game itself is constantly screaming at you exactly what you need to do next and railroading you into doing it all in one very specific order.

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>>12195878
>>12198915
>>12198026
All wrong and retarded.
The copes N64 babies come up with.
Videogames were just entertainment.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Not toys.
Not high art.
Just games.
Active leisure pastimes, particularly favored by males.

It wasn't that people in their late teens and early 20s were embarrassed to play Ocarina.
It wasn't some peculiar feeling of "insecurity."
They didn't care what anyone thought about their hobbies.

They didn't like Ocarina because they were BORED OUT OF THEIR MINDS playing it.
They had options like Half-Life, Metal Gear Solid, Quake, Final Fantasy VII and a massive long tail of other more exciting and appealing options.
They chose those over Ocarina 90% of the time.

I'm not ashamed to watch Paw Patrol with my kids. It doesn't trigger "insecurity" or any bullshit like that (just annoyance when Rider takes his ATV onto water, transforms it into some kind of snowmobile-thing that would sink instantly IRL). But watching Paw Patrol is pretty boring and not how I'd choose to spend my time if it didn't involve interacting with my own children.

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picrel is the "spoiler" map, the one you weren't supposed to look at unless you got stuck.

>>12202686
Videogames are art, if you don't agree you don't appreciate videogames

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>>12202663
The first times I played zelda 1 was from a rental anyway, and someone had stolen the map. I still remember not even discovering level 2 until I'd already beaten 3 and 4 and had spent a lot of time trying to beat 6 and 7.

>>12202727
Games > art
Games are more important than art.
Videogames can contain art and unique expression.
But games are integral to society.

>>12184903
I still say NoFriendo LameCube because of that guy shit was pretty funny.

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>>12195878
>>12198026
The mental gymnastics nintendies will go through to gaslight everyone by projecting their own insecurities onto the medium as a whole...lmao.

>>12202686
This anon got it 90% correct. Nobody really considered video games to be "children's toys". Nintendo had a general disposition towards appealing to kids, and so was looked at as the family friendly "kiddy console", but I went to the military base where my dad worked, and there were guys playing Duke Nukem 3D in the hangars.

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>>12202547
>I had both and there was really not a single game on the ps1 looked as good or was as immersive as OOT/MM

Allow me to introduce myself

I'll put things this way. There are certain things that, while they are genuinely good and enjoyable when you are a certain level of experience, once you are beyond that level, while you might look back at it with some fondness, you see that there are now things that are more appropriate for you and you see why you moved on.

For example, I enjoyed Gran Turismo as a kid. It was an interesting introduction to the "adult world" of cars and taught me and many others the basics of 'real' racing and car tuning. As a man in my 30s, who's gone through multiple cars, owns a full PC sim setup and races against other people etc. Gran Turismo was a nice introductory game, and the license tests specifically offer really intense challenges, but the core structure of GT mode, buying stuff you can upgrade to the point that you can blow and bump past the other cars who otherwise nicely keep to themselves, is kind of a gimmicky RPG style fantasy where you grind, smash and buy your way to being the best. It's good at what it's trying to be, but I see the actual racing is something that exists in more refined forms elsewhere.

The N64 Zelda games are *not* that kind of thing. They are exemplary examples of what gaming can offer when something is created by devs who have every intention of making a game that takes advantage of and uniquely exploits the medium to a high degree, and because of this there is no substitute for what they actually pull off. Zelda is not an 'introductory series' to something better in gaming, it is one of the best, and Ocarina is the peak of it. It is not something with an 'adult counterpart' elsewhere.

It's like, when I encountered OoT, as a child I'd already played through so many of the games that people here are giving as examples of 'more mature' games. I saw it then as something that, regardless of whatever 'Peter Pan' appearance it had, was much more ambitious and refined than anything else it could compare against, and I still hold that opinion.

>>12176914
Sage

>>12202686
stop letting your kids watch slop patrol

>>12192074
This guys retarded. If role-playing as someone different from you is a filter, what’s the point if an rpg? Not that anybody playing Zelda really cares what age the jumble of polygons represents. It’s about exploration and dungeons and items not some text based virtual novel

>>12202869
Doesn't looks as good as OOT and it's far from Immersive

>>12203061
>Doesn't looks as good as OOT

It is+better framerate

And ultra immersive

>>12202818
Boomers creamed their pants over this

>>12203065
>muh framerste
Irrelevant on how the game LOOKS
>more immersive
Oh really? Does it have a dynamic night and day cycle? The most basic feature of an immersive game?

>>12203075
>The most basic feature of an immersive game?
Ok, you're being unfair here. Like, I agree with you that OoT's day/night cycle adds a great deal to the games immersion, and makes it much more immersive than most games that lack this, but there are games, like Tomb Raider and Resident Evil, that are still atmospheric and immersive to a good certain extent even without it.

>>12203075
You spent almost all the time in underground what's the point of day/night cycle?

Vagrant story has lightning effect on characters that's much more impressive

>>12203083
>>12203089
Graphics and lighting effects don't make a game immersive, mechanics do, a living world does.
You could make a more immersive game than OOT just with pixel shit graphics

>Graphics and lighting effects don't make a game immersive
>You could make a more immersive game than OOT just with pixel shit graphics
There goes your argument, dumb ESL.

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>>12176914
It IS a kids game

>>12203041
>If role-playing as someone different from you is a filter
>It’s about exploration and dungeons and items not some text based virtual novel
Reading comprehension failures aside, I just wish all you faggot retards trying to make stupid points like this would actually fucking look at the alternative games that teens in 1998 would have had to play.

Play Half-Life for an hour.
Play Ocarina for an hour.

Tell me you can't fucking tell the difference between these games.

>>12203017
Yeah sure, fart-huffing pseuds like you are outliers though and not the point of the discussion.

>>12203212
You can't even see your fucking character in HL

>>12203252
And?
Are you just trying really hard to prove to me you have no idea what we're talking about?

>>12202818
>This anon got it 90% correct.
He said about himself.

>>12203278
I'd say I am 100% correct. Curious to know what the 10% the other anon disputes with me.

>>12198029
Fragile egos

>>12176914
i have a friend who was a teen at the time and he was super into OoT and MGS1.

>>12202663
>actually, the hand-holding is the opposite of what you think!!!

>>12202818
>Nobody really considered video games to be "children's toys".
That's exactly what most people think, anon. Nintendo considers themselves a toy company and hires generational toy makers.

>>12204541
Explain the Sonic thread that's up right now

>>12176914
Never played it on an actual N64 but I remember my mate played it on UltraHLE which as I understand it was the first N64 emulator. The emulation was rough but was at least playable. The framerate wasn't great but I'm not sure if it was the emulator or just his PC not being powerful enough (although it could play Half Life very well at the time).

>>12205354
Stop murdering language.

>>12205659
Call the language police on me, you little bitch, because that's all you have at this point.

>>12176914
Im in my 40s, it always seemed boring to me. I tried playing on the 3ds and got stuck at the beginningwithout knowing what else to do lol

it did not have a huge amount of mindshare outside of america or america's hat. desu the n64 was rarely thought of.

to gamers who had played mgs, abes odyssey, parasite eve it came across as anodyne and derivative.

>>12206678
Yeah no, none of those games had a huge open world map and world
>t.had a Nintendo 64 and a Playstation

>>12176914
>or did it have a teenage/PS1 appeal
Among autists, yes. The Zelda obsessives of the era would be the same people heavily into MTG or later YuGayOh! and Inuyasha

>>12206729
Ocarina didn't have a huge open world map, either.
And if we're talking world maps do you realize that Everquest came out like 4 months after Ocarina? A game where it took an hour or more in real time to travel across the world, during which you'd traverse multiple biomes, encountering dangerous monsters and oh yeah, actual human players to interact and cooperate with.

N64 tendies were so insulated it's unreal

>>12206591
Using words incorrectly is literally all you have. There's no argument to be had if you are incapable of using language like a human.

>>12207103
Not a game on the ps1 had the same scale and sense of adventure as OOT, any game with actual exploration was a jrpg which is fine but not the same, the closest thing you have to a 3d zelda is king field which is not really good.
>Everquest
Oh a shitty mmo where gameplay is flushed down the toiled so you can see other retards run around like headless chickens all swarming the quest giver npc? Wow sorry I don't play MMOgarbage

>>12207106
Cat got you by the tongue pretty good on that one, eh. Sucks to suck, bitch.

>>12202818
Name of the game in the webm?

>>12176914
OoT was one of the biggest hits of its time. It took the Zelda formula to a whole new level. And the game was so rich with content, it holds up to this day. And you can still find things you never thought were there.

>>12202869
>>12203065

Does look better but the environments are too compact, so it's not a fair comparison.

A more fair one would be Soul Reaver.
It has many interesting effects and some things are better than OoT.

But, interestingly, it also has low framerate and utilizes fog too much.
Environments aren't as big as well.

Either way, it doesn't matter too much because the N64 could look a lot better.

https://youtu.be/xnAGq_KJbYk?t=15

https://youtu.be/aZIESwGzlyw

>>12207110
Final Finatasy 7 had much bigger scale than Ocarina. It's not even close.
>shitty mmo
Kek, always funny to see this kind of seething and parrot criticism from tendies who had their mind blown by cucco roundup and riding Epona across Hyrule Field.

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>>12206602
>got stuck at the beginning
>without knowing what else to do
Genuinely brain damaged.

>>12207236
>FF7
Cool battles but the overworld is ugly chibi shit, I think you meant FF8

>>12207187
Indeed. It's pretty incredible.

>>12176914
It was the best game ever made back thrn

>>12207236
It doesn't