Yeah I know the last thread was also Gradius but fuck it I've been playing this and it's sickI'll always love games where you can do shit with your options. Gradius V, R-Type, Battle Garegga, whatever else that has this type of thing that I hope you'll post about, it's just a simple thing that adds so much extra strategy beyond shooting and dodgingThe Weapon Edit has a massive amount of viable possibilities (though some are better than others), just insane replay value hereI know Freeze is the best but Direction is also so fun and basically transforms the game into a twin-stick shooterAlso switching between Ripple and E-Laser a lot, the former's a lot easier to use in stages but the latter is so satisfying to literally one-shot bosses if you get it just right.
It's a great last hurrah to the series, before the parodius anime girl apocalypse. I like the rotating Option myself.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDbGrpBZ2WM
It's ok.Also for the anon asking about hitboxes, there was another pic floating around showing it to be smaller, but I'm not sure if this is more accurate.
shmups?
>>12202549Starting to get into shmupsThought I hated them because my main exposure was Gradius games but now I’m just realizing Gradius just sucks
>>12203508No one hates Gradius, they just hate being bad at Gradius
>>12203541To be good at Gradius you need to play it enough. And if somebody said they did, then you will just answer "then why are you playing it?".For me, it's a good series overall but I can easily admit there are a lot of rough spots, it's very lacking in terms of scoring or mechanics beyond the power up bar(Parodius addressed that at least), the checkpoint system is so punishing that I genuinely prefer doing no death runs(mostly in the first 3 games), and some sections are long and boring at the start.
>>12203541Gradius is actually honestly pretty terrible in the grand scheme of shmups. I've got no respect for someone who clears gradius games. You'd be better off playing something else. This is not a good start to the thread. 2 more weeks of this, major ugh
>>12204138idk man i think you just fucking suck
You need more practice...
I don't play a lot of shmups but I'm enjoying thunder force IVI want to 1cc hard so I'm trying to understand why some shields sometimes appear and sometimes don'tSeems like this game has some variable difficulty mechanic where you face more/faster enemies if you haven't died in a while, so I guess it's related to that. So maybe it's optimal to suicide at certain times to get more shields?reliable shields:stage 2 hidden at the top, after the first missile pod enemies pop instage 3 during the part where gunners lock on and shoot at youstage 7 early on after the free waystage 8 after the second midbossstage 8 hidden at the end by the 1-upweird stuff:stage 5, after the miniboss I think it's possible for a shield to appear. but maybe that's only on normalstage 6, at the top where the free way normally is there is rarely a shield insteadstage 9, sometime earlyAlso, is there a trick to surviving against the invincible robot in the final stage? I can dodge the red bullets if I move around, and I can dodge the green lasers if I stay near the middle of its body, but I get hit when it switches between the two. Otherwise I just need to make it there with enough lives to outlast it.
>>12202549Do you think Konami paid the ESRB for this to get a T rating to make it appear edgier/grittier on shelvesBecause if you look at it objectively it's no more than an E10+
Is Gladius V a good place to start? I've never shmupped before. What else is on ps2
>>12204381Maybe it's the gore-ish aspects like the brain and the eye.I doubt Konami were concerned on USA ratings and edgyness but who knows
>>12204383Gradius V is a good place to start, Very Easy mode is a hard but reasonable difficulty and the way that more credits unlock over time forces you to at least kinda get good and experience the game rather than credit feeding and dying constantlyR-Type Final is also on PS2 but I haven't really played it muchAlso some CAVE games like Espgaluda and DoDonPachi DaiOuJou but those are only in Japan
>>12203556>To be good at Gradius you need to play it enoughHaving cleared a bunch of shmups of the same kind will also make you good enough to understand and appreciate Gradius. In essence love for Gradius is something you will inevitably catch if you truly love video games.
>Gradius 5>Treasure game wearing Gradius skin suitfuck no
>>12204451hi, auster
>>12204383This is the absolute worst place on the entire internet you could ask for shmup advice. Anyone who actually plays the games got annoyed and left, all that remains is schizos and shitposters that will flat out lie to you to serve their own interests.
>>12204690This le epic 4chan jaded pessimism kind of falls flat when the other reply was a completely sincere post
>>12204691Of course gradius is a terrible series to start shmups with. Of course playing on easy modes is a terrible way to learn shmups. But you won't accept that. You'd rather kill any and all discussion than accept that. Because you don't really belong here and are trying to push some ebin "le dad shmup" meme because you probably got thrown off system11 for being a stupid shitposting asswipe. You'd rather lie and push your own shit than help people get into shmups, and you'll sit in these generals 24/7 until the end of time pushing this awful garbage, and make the same shitty threads on /v/ every single day there to try and hinder people actually interested in shmups there, so why bother? You can sit here by yourself bumping the thread once a day and hoping you'll trick some third world ESL retard, because all thats left on /vr/ now is third world newfags and schizophrenic grifters.These threads are worthless now.
>>12204694>Of course gradius is a terrible series to start shmups with>be gradius, pioneered the genre>be peak when it was released>inspire others>get countless sequels, ports, spinoffs like Parodius which are better than the original game itself>but don't start your journeylmao
>>12204710Don't reply to the schizo.Though personally I wouldn't recommend easy modes either, it's not about whether the game is quickly winnable for beginners, what matters is getting you into the right mindset of having to learn stages and improve your execution.
>>12204713Yeah I'm the schizo, not the guy that made 57 gradius threads on /v/ with the same exact box art and did nothing but screech about e-celebs. This is definitely normal behavior and not the result of a rotten and stagnant general full of off-site tourists. It's definitely good advice to tell beginners to play moldy and antiquated games because you should play shmups in "order". Up until about 5 years ago, people would say to start shmups with touhou 6. And it worked. A huge percentage of 4chan was at the very least acquainted with shmups. Then that stopped and tourists that got their opinions from ecelebs started parroting retarded shit. Firstly, horizontal shmups are universally bad. They almost all have terrible scoring systems, boring bullet patterns, egregious safe spots, boring starting levels, and dry mechanics. Like the only horizontal shmup in existence that doesn't totally suck is rolling gunner and that's not for beginners. Secondly, no beginner is playing gradius. Because it is boring and bad. Which means there are no beginner replays to learn from. You don't learn shmups from playing "easy mode". You don't learn shmups from credit feeding 50 games in a rompack and styling yourself an expert. You find people of a similar skill level and familiarize yourself with routing. These games were designed for people to watch each other play in arcades and build off each other's routes, and trying to copy super players will only stunt your growth and make obtaining a 1cc take forever. Thirdly, you're clearly a massive asshat that hates otaku interests and wants to glorify some bland heavy metal album cover aesthetic, and 4chan is not for that. You don't belong here. If you don't like anime you don't belong here. If you don't like CAVE and ZUN you don't belong here.
>>12204742Yes you are the schizo. Not reading your sludge, off yourself from the threads if you don't like them, and hopefully from life while you are at it.
>>12204745>off yourself from the threadsStop poisoning /v/ and I will. I don't want to see you gross redditor semen slurpers ever set foot in that place again. You can sit here and rot on this dead board in a thread that can't even make it half way to bump limit in 2 weeks.
>>12204742holy I ain't reading that
>>12204779tl;dr he's both a schizo who think everyone is the same person, and a narcissist who needs everyone to agree to his every opinion.
>>12204779>>12204787You have two whole weeks to read it. Neither that post nor this thread is going anywhere. Enjoy it.
>>12204383The DOJ PS2 port is pretty good actually, it has a better practice mode than even the M2 one.But it's only white label so you need to git gud, that's the harder version
Also, not fully japanese. You can read the important stuff like these settings for practicing. That's page 2 out of 3 btw.Highly recommend if you want to play white label specifically.
>>12202549The weapons are really balanced in this gameIn other Gradius games there's usually one setup that's clearly the bestNot really the case here other than Spread Bomb still being the clear best missileBut all the Doubles are good, and all the Lasers have strengths and weaknesses. Ripple has the best coverage, Laser has slightly more damage, Fire Blaster is short range but has a lot of damage and can be extended with Freeze options, and E-Laser does a shitton of damage and one-shots most bosses but has to be charged so it's a lot harder to use it outside of bosses. I think eventually I want to at least 1cc with all four laser types, as well as Freeze options and Direction options.
>>12204787>>12204748>>12204742>>12204694dude imagine being you and being THIS pissed off that someone likes a widely critically acclaimed video gameIt's fucking thanksgiving man get a life
>>12204964I'm not him, I'm summing up his post. Gradius V is ok, I like Parodius more thot. first guy you replied to
>>12204967yeah sorry that was a mistake
>>12204451kill yourself
how is dfk in fb neo? I want to practice the wheels and it's annoying not having save states on the steam port.
>>12206000I think generally Xenia's more accurate for CV1K games but idk if it has save states
>>12206042Completely forgot DFK is on 360, I'll give it a shot. Thanks, anon.
>>12203508Gokujou Parodius is a lot more fun than Gradius
>>12206496I feel like Gokujou's the weakest oneDoesn't really improve upon Parodius Da! that much and just feels kinda samey, and has bad character balance, Koitsu and Michael are just clearly better than the other characters.Gokujou just feels like "more Parodius", whereas Parodius Da!, Jikkyou Oshaberi, and Sexy all have something to set them apart (being the first one, huge cast of characters and stages that parody Konami games, missions and alternate paths)
>>12202549I think I'm gonna go with these setups. Want to 1cc with every laser type and most of the option types. First one first since E-Laser seems the easiest, I mean it just fucking shreds bosses. Double could be replaced with Vertical but I feel like Double might be better in a general-purpose sense since I'll be using it during basically all of the stages before the boss.
More of my arcade stick autism. Criticizing this video:https://youtu.be/g2zcqR8NJLQYou don't need to do any of what this guy is trying or suggesting to do. You can buy the original MM9-2 solder terminal switches and solder* them back in place if a switch has gone out. He blathers on about how to mount a JLF on the Hori mount. The correct thing to do is just drop a Seimitsu LS-56 onto the mount, which will fit without modification. Then you'll have to purchase a connector that can fit onto the Hori Stick's lever connector and connect to the LS-56, which shouldn't be too hard to find or make. *it's inconvenient to have to desolder all the switches any time you want to replace just one, but with some practice you can get the hang of how to replace just one at a time by desoldering and putting some pressure on the pcb to pop it away from the button enough and work at it until you get just the one button out. Or you can use a screw-in button+solder terminal switch, which makes things easier.
What games are you guys playing?I'm a relatively new shmup player and these are the games I'm interested in clearing:>Actively playingGradius VBattle Garegga>Interested in 1ccing at some pointR-TypeR-Type LeoXexexGradius III (SNES)Parodius Da!Sexy ParodiusKetsui>Probably will eventually just because it seems doable and I've already gotten to the final boss multiple times on random playthroughsTouhou 7>Already clearedGradius 1 (Arcade), Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius (Saturn), Batsugun Special, Batrider Normal CourseMy current taste is really oriented towards horizontal dadshmups, I like the level design aspect a lot and there usually seems to be a bit more strategy/decision-making. Battle Garegga is my favorite vertical shmup for similar reasons, I enjoy the strategic aspect of these games as much as the raw bullet dodging.
>>12206496 Bookia Nova>>12204742 Holy fucking moly lmaoAnyway I'm enjoying Darius G a lot. I like playing Gradius even though I'm sure I'll never beat any of those games.
>>12207228>I like playing Gradius even though I'm sure I'll never beat any of those gamesGradius 1 is fairly doable. It's hard and has the same brutal recovery as the later games but it's also only like 15 minutes long and doesn't have any truly insane moments like the cube rush in III, I think anyone could beat it in a few days desu
>>12207064You should play Batsugun Advanced Course too, you missed out on two stages and the very infamous final boss.
>>12207245Batrider* whoops
>>12207245I'm sure I will eventually, cool soulful game. Right now I'm really into Garegga though. Also Batrider seems harder even though common opinion is the opposite, can't stockpile extends and rank increases more from getting an extend than dying so if you actually want to keep low rank you have to stay at 1 life the whole time, though at least rank isn't *as* important
>>12207287Not sure if I can agree with that, I decided to not bother with Garegga myself but found Batrider to be not particularly difficult aside from final boss(if you are unlucky, you can get good rolls for very easy attacks to dodge) and some parts in stage 6.Rank management is a thing and yeah sure staying on one life for at least a good half of the game is helpful, but not even close to how harsh Garegga can be about it.
>>12204378Never mind, I just played better and finished hard mode with tons of extra lives.Played the early stages in order 2 -> 1 -> 4 -> 3Got the hidden shield in 2 and hidden free way in 1 (start of underwater sequence, bottom right)The shield from 2 lasted until fomalhaut, the shield from 3 lasted until 7And it seems like the penultimate boss has a predictable sequence of attacks so you can plan out how to dodge in advance.
>>12207064Dude you haven't cleared even a single shmup that takes even a small amount of effort and you're making some assumption on what you "vibe" with. Where do cancerous retards like this come from?What the fuck do you mean the strategic aspect of Garegga? It's just medals spawning in clouds of bullets or the edge of the screen. If you want to juggle extends and resources to manage rank and score blue revolver is right there without all the warts.
>>12207064I hate most shmups so there's not much I play.I occasionally play Fantasy Zone and Twinkle Star: Sprites though.
>>12207382>No you can't understand what games you like until you've beaten every single video game actuallyRetarded tryhard
>>12208041Some of these fags are really deluded, aren't they? Probably on welfare to have time for "every single shmup" lmao
>>12207064>Actively playingTwinkle Tale, Sonic Wings 2, The Girl From Gunma Kai>Interested in 1ccing at some pointAll of the above, Darius Gaiden, Batsugun classic, Giga Wing, Night Striker, Progear>Already clearedGradius, Darius, Darius Extra (all routes), Darius II, Sagaia V2 (all routes), Sonic Wings, Fantasy Zone, Space Harrier, Chelnov, R-Type (PCE), R-Type II, Musha Aleste
>>12207064>Actively trying to 1CCSengoku Ace>Actively play for funThunder FoxI only try to 1CC games that I enjoy playing casually (without credit feeding ofc).
>>12204964>critiques when they call gunbird 2 a bad game because too difficultjournos am I right>critiques when a new treasure slop is released, giving the easiest opinioncritically acclaimedI dare you to read those reviews, and take a shot every time Ikaruga comes up.
>>12208968Broken clock is right twice a day.
>>12208968okay but psikyo games are a little bit slopall very similar, very fast bullets that sometimes feel like cheapshots, etc, it's just a formula that appeals to a certain subset of arcade gamer but obviously doesn't appeal to the general gaming public. And being niche is fine don't get me wrong
>>12209029None of the traits you attribute to Psikyo games qualify them as "slop". They're all similar, but they're also all extremely well crafted.
>>12208968So I actually dig up some of those reviews on archive.org. The second, and the third review are literally 3 lines no deep dives on the mechanics, difficulty anything.The first review, starts off by saying he likes these games only because of nostalgia and modern shooters outclasses these games in terms of complexity. Then he blabs about different home ports for some reason, he says the game is extremely simple, you hop in and shoot stuff, never talks about any strategy, formation, etc.Then he complains about game being too short, brags about how he could finish it while sleeping (he uses continues btw, doesn't even know what a 1CC is). Credit feeds the entire game, call it short, says it has no complexity, no depth, just a game about shooting.Never talks about score or anything else. Just uses buzzword. And Gradius Gaiden doesn't exist for him.
>>12209029>all very similar, very fast bullets that sometimes feel like cheapshotsLet me guess, you are a cave guy?
Sometimes I try to understand why Westerners ignore shoot 'em ups so much.R-Type Delta doesn't seem like a good port, but even so, to me it seems so much better than Cleared Hot (a clone of Desert Strike, that crappy Western series). R-Type Delta has only 50 reviews on Steam, while Cleared Hot has 1,500. Both were released on the same day on Steam. People didn't think twice about consuming a clone of a Western series that is painfully bad, but completely ignored a re-release of a Japanese series that, while not the pinnacle of video games, at least has some qualities.Note: I don't know about Cleared Hot as a game itself, I've only seen a few videos and it seems to be a competent game, but it's still a clone of a shitty series.
>>12209116Westerners were never that big on STG, both as players and devs
>>12209116>R-Type Delta has only 50 reviews on Steam, while Cleared Hot has 1,500.R-Type Delta HD is a remaster of an old game sold at a higher price than Cleared Hot, which is a new game.Why the fuck would you spend more on a game you can emulate (and have better quality of life doing so since you'd be able to savestate)
>>12202549New shmup player after a soft introduction via ZeroRanger.I am trying to gain a better understanding of the genre and I've seen people suggest to just start with "whatever looks good" and I ended up picking Devil Blade Reboot. Having an absolute blast with it so far, the music, the visuals, the speed, it's really fucking stimulating and I don't know if I had the same motivation to improve if the presentation didn't appeal this much to me.For more experienced veterans, do those aspects still matter to you (if they ever have) or do you strictly care about the gameplay with everything else just becoming background noise?I'm also eyeing Ikaruga and DoDonPachi: DOJ right now, again because of their presentation (and their reputation).
>>12209198...They remastered Delta?
>>12209116simple fact is zoomies don't play old games
>>12209543>For more experienced veteransI am not some experienced veterans, but you are underestimating the genre. You are in for a pleasant surprise. Sexy Parodius, Mushihimesama, anything from Psikyo, and much more.
>>12209547Don't get your dick up, it's an emulated PS1 game resold to you for way more than whatever they charged for the PSone Classic on PSN
>>12209543Have you played Einhander yet? If not you should add it to the list.
>>12209606I'm not interested in it, I'm just surprised that they're remastering everything under the Sun. It really is the end of the industry.
>>12209701I have not but I've come across the cover of it multiple times over the years and I always thought it looked cool, just never had the drive to get into the genre before, will add it.>>12209592I think I've briefly played Psikyo's Striker 1945 games many years ago. The spritework of Sexy Parodius looks really good, albeit a bit too anime for me.On that note, is there a recommended way to get into the Dodonpachi games? Are people just using MAME for that?
>>12209813For DP, DDP and DOJ just use mame bro.DFK has a steam port, that's... kinda fine but not very accurate when it comes to slowdown. I sure hope you enjoy very fast Golden Disaster fight.SDOJ does work in mame but doesn't have official support due to devs being pussies. Can be done by tricking the emu into thinking it's DFK Black Label.
Is your 1cc invalidated on this version of the game if you use the 320 wide screen pixel option?
>>12209978join the workforce and you'll stop worrying about these inane things
>>12209978A 1cc is only invalidated by credits and cheats.
>>12209981>>12209984Okay but in that mode you get 32 extra pixels of screen space on both sides. I'm sure there's some bullshit you can pull with that extra space.
>>12209989That just means that if you want to submit your score to a leaderboard it has to be for that specific version.
>>12209993But it's not the original intent. Same thing goes for the widescreen Sonic remasters, they're for sissies who hate art.
>>12209997Every version, port and revision of a game has its own leaderboards, the only thing that matters is that every competitor is on even grounds.If you're not competing for score then you're the only arbiter of your run.
Shmups are great, great gfcore material but it's rare to find a female that wants to git gud
>>12210009I assume you've played Pop'N Twinbee with her already? It has a mode specifically for women.
>>12210017Yessss, Twin Bee is peak gfcore
>>12209543I'm still newer too, only really started playing this year. What's nice is that pretty much every STG that's still being played or is relevant is such high quality compared to most modern genres, you do sort of adapt to it, but the art and sound direction in general is so good imo it never really falls into just background noise. For me, the more I spend time with a game, the more I've found myself appreciating them, can't really be said for other genres.
What do you think of this mechanic for a shoot 'em up:Instead of bombs, the player has a super power that he can charge up by killing enemies or passing close to their projectiles. Every time he reaches level 1, he can use a super power. The idea is that it will be relatively easy to gain super powers, but with each level, the difficulty ranking increases considerably.So the game will be easy for beginners, since they would have several "bombs" per level and would be encouraged to use them frequently. But an experienced player would purposely keep the special level high to score more points.
>>12210228That's.... Dodonpachi II?https://youtu.be/rjjRM4V3A2Y
I just 1CCd Thunder Force III on normal, which I know is complete fucking babby mode in the grand scheme of things but it's my first ever 1CC shmup so I'm feeling dead pleased with myself.
>>12207064>Actively trying to 1CCDodonpachi Daioujou Black Label>Actively play for funNight Striker Gear (already 1cc'd it a couple of times, just trying the TLB), Pikmin 2
>>12210228I have a limited scope of stg knowledge but it sounds like Espgaluda II where you keep your item count high for maximum scoring, but beginner players would want to spend it to slow down time and bullets
>>12209997bro play the fuckin gamewhy are you obsessed with online rep, nobody important cares
Kek, imagine getting this amount of lucky dodges in a real run. Shits like this never happen to me.https://youtu.be/En_9rhB58yc?t=12852
>>12209543You're me a few months ago. Absolutely fell in love with Devil Blade and tried finding more shmups/other arcade titles and genres to scratch the same itch. Devil Blade is both a good and bad entry point because the style is just so phenomenal and the game design is so brilliantly instantly accessible/intensely satisfying for a beginner, I haven't found anything else that hits the same notes for me but it got me hooked on the genre. I'm shallow, style, fun and presentation are a big part of what makes arcade style (not only shmups) appealing to me, even if I suck at the game, there has to be that initial hook for sure pushing me to take mechanics seriously and not just credit feed or stop playing after a few deaths.Especially soundtracks. I can become hooked on a shmup just because I become hooked on the soundtrack. But like a regular music album, I'll get sick of repeating it a few days later so I'll just stop playing that one for a while.It's such a huge genre and can be overwhelming at first. Get a big old rompack and some more modern indie/doujin ones. I don't like credit feeding to completion, it's boring so instead I just give a game 10 minutes and a few deaths and move on, or just restart a single level a few times until I can clear it, then try a different game. Just like if you were in a real arcade, you'd just go around the room and try different stuff instead of just staying on the first machine. Sample a bunch of random ones in different styles. Then you'll know which ones really call to you to come back and you'll feel comfortable having a few in your rotation.
Currently playing Donpachi. Last stage is too difficult and long, but I think I can handle it. For the 2 loop I'll use save states, though.
>>12209997>original intentOriginal intent was to play without autofire, yet every japanese arcade had them. So you can take that original intent and shove it up your ass.>>12210778I have a similar style, I hate the "extent of the jam" way of making shmups your job way of clearing. It works but its not for me. I like playing games for exploration, if I like a game (currently sengoku ace), I try to push it to its limit, i.e, no power up run, no bomb, no complicated ship with tracking or wide shots. Simple focused basic shot, allowing me to see how enemies behave, and expose their weakness.I don't even route unless needed, mostly because the order of stages in psikyo changes every run. Playing without power ups, bombs, OP ships, is like going to a gym, and lifting weights. You train fundamentals, and then everything else feels like Goku taking off those training weights.
>>12210980>the order of stages in psikyo changes every runThat can be routed too. It's always the first three or four stages that are randomized, and the difficulty level, which is always crescent regardless of the order can be memorized. Memorizing that part in particular is one of the most important components for a Video System/Psikyo clear, and for scoring too.
>>12210992Yeah, and I can already clear the early randomized stages on a single credit, and the only routing I did, was the timing on when to get up close to certain mid bosses for a speed kill.I see routing as a last resort, mostly because I also play Ghouls N Goblins a lot, and in that game there is no soft routing, you either go full route, or don't route at all. I will route a game, but the game has to force me to do it.
>>12211005If you're planning to go all the way to the second loop I assure you that you will be forced.
>>12211009Yeah, I am planning to do the second loop too. First for survival, then for score.I would still recommend others to try playing these games without any power ups just for fun. Your brain goes into this lock on mode, there are more enemies on screen, but for some reason you also play better. I don't know what causes it.
whats with people who play psikyo games always being severely retarded
>>12210889Yeah, that sounds fairly relatable although my arcade-style experience is limited, mostly to rythm games and ace combat if those count. I initially just wanted to get through ZeroRanger because of its connection to their other (non-shmup) game and by the time I got to the ebin twist ending ||and got my save deleted after failing the TLB|| I barely cared anymore and was more focused on how much genuine fun I was having + the intense desire to improve, I'm glad I stumbled upon Devil Blade right after because the trailer sold me instantly with the seizure inducing visuals and castlevania-esque music kek.It feels so damn good to dart across the screen constantly processing where to move next, reminds me of the sensation I get from rythm games.>Get a big old rompack and some more modern indie/doujin onesThat's probably a good idea, thanks.
>>12211047I like Parodius too.
>>12211078Have you played Gradius Gaiden or Salamander 2? Specially Gradius Gaiden, I would argue it looks better than Devil Blade Reboot.
>>12211083I would argue that Gradius Gaiden looks better than any other game.
>>12211085true
>>12211083I haven't played either but I had the first Salamander noted down to try as well this weekend, I'm just a bit hestitant with horizontal games. Might just be my retardation and I will probably like it.
>>12211110Devil Blade 2 exists (on Saturn) and it's horizontal
>>12209841Thank you, I set up mame and got the DDP arcade version to work and it seems to run out of the box just fine. Even just after playing around for a couple minutes this is exactly what I had hoped for, it looks and sounds great.The mame ui is pretty horrendous, even considering it's just a framework but I'll look into some sort of frontend.A possibly retarded question but am I supposed to keep tapping the fire button to keep my bullets up and prevent them from turning into a laser?
>>12211420>A possibly retarded question but am I supposed to keep tapping the fire button to keep my bullets up and prevent them from turning into a laser?I'm pretty sure DDP had an autofire option you can turn on in the system menu, using the C button.
>>12211420>using mame frontendbro, just go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVl49TvdhnM
>>12211423this: >>12211425also shows you how to setup autofire on games that don't have an option
>>12211428>>12211423>>12211425Thanks for the advice, never touched an arcade game before.It's not that I'm having trouble with the general setup of mame, it's pretty straightforward. Just the menu navigation feels weirdly sluggish and it also looks a bit cluttered. Ultimately I don't care about a pretty config menu but I might as well just start roms through the terminal.The video was still helpful for the sake of setting up the rom files correctly, thank you.
>>12211516Mame definitely works better if you are comfortable with the terminal.
>>12211518that's fine by me
>>12211516One advice, configure default controls too when you enable plugins, and save it. Then you can modify per game controls when needed. The way MAME handles input is 100x better than whatever the fuck retroarch people are smoking.
>>12204383No, Gradius V is pretty hard even on Very Easy mode, Treasure's games are very memo heavy. A good place to start would be GG Aleste 3, Batsugun Special and Salamander FC
>>12211678A game being easy isn't what makes it a good starting point. Though Batsugun Special is for sure. But if a game is too easy you're just not gonna learn how shmups work. Gradius V on Very Easy with the way that credits unlock over time is definitely a better way to get the essense of shmups (replaying over and over until you get good enough to clear) than some dogshit you can beat/credit feed through on your first try then forget about
>>12211678>GG Aleste 3hell nah>Batsugun Special acceptable>Salamander FCFamicom? Salamander and Salamander 2 are fine, just play the PS1 ports.
>>12207064>My current taste is really oriented towards horizontal dadshmups, I like the level design aspect a lot and there usually seems to be a bit more strategy/decision-making. Battle Garegga is my favorite vertical shmup for similar reasons, I enjoy the strategic aspect of these games as much as the raw bullet dodging.Based. I'm the same. Play Radiant Silvergun, you won't be disappointed.
>>12211713Why would graidius v teach you how shmups work? It's just memorizing positions, it doesn't actually make you learn any of the actual techniques used in the shmups people generally really like. A lot of "dad shmups" are genuinely just hard memorization, and really boring unfun "safespot" memorization to boot.
>>12210889Followed your advice and just went around trying a bunch of random titles for 10-20 minutes each and since you seem to appreciate Devil Blade for the same reasons as me, check out Soukyugurentai. Instantly clicked with me. It's gorgeous.In general I am blown away by the amazing sprite work I have seen today.
>>12212080This is unironically the worst advice you could have ever possibly been given
>>12212086how so?
>>12212162Don't answer to the angry gremlin. It's the same guy who made the seethe post above.
>>12212162You'll never learn what makes a shmup (or video games in general) appealing if you keep attaching yourself to them for superficial reasons. It's also a totally unnatural way to experience games, no one playing shmups today found them by looking at a big pile of garbage and picking the most superficially appealing crap that was unpopular enough for them to pretend to be different and quirky. (While actually just being an npc consumerist golem) It's just an annoying and retarded way to approach video games, and a horrendously terrifying way to approach a genre so laser focused on gameplay.
>>12212181You don't sound very bright.
>>12212181Bro, please for the love of god leave this thread. You have actual autism. Let people play whatever the fuck they want, take away your shitty full extent of the jam mentality away, not everybody cares about maintaining a 1CC body count. People play these games for fun. 1CC always comes later, scoring comes later.
>>12212297And this isn't arguing for muh consumerism. I play shmups for fun, because they respect the player, and don't pull psychological tricks on me, like Modern games do with their RPG mechanics, IKEA effect, unskippable cutscene, etc. Arcade games respect the player, and you play these games if you are having fun. There is no such thing as a bad shmup, no such thing as developing bad habbits, etc. If these things happen to you, its a defect in you. This is why I don't argue with normies, modern games give them what they want. They want shallow stuff, and the companies provide them.
>>12212297>Let people play whatever the fuck they wantYou're the one pushing them into shit. I hate disengenous retards like this that just mislead people. It's not hard to 1cc a shmup. The shmups that are hard are not hard for the sake of being hard, people like them because they are *fun* enough to sink all that time into and not get bored. There is this depressing miasma of normalfag retards on /vr/ who just see old games as something to hammer through and 2 hours and move onto the next slop. That's not shmups and it'll never be shmups. If all you want to do is play an extremely specific and casual vertical slice of shmups, then don't try to build a whole general around it. There's not even anything interesting to discuss about these games.
just play thePLAYTHE GAME
>>12212312>It's not hard to 1cc a shmupNever said anything about difficulty.> /vr/ who just see old games as something to hammer through and 2 hours and move onto the next slop.I call this the anti-normie filter, which gatekeeps genre like Shmups and keep them pure.People who just treat games as a thing on a checklist are retarded.>If all you want to do is play an extremely specific and casual vertical slice of shmups, then don't try to build a whole general around it. There's not even anything interesting to discuss about these games.You are literally me.I think you need to work on your communication. This response was 100x better than your previous attempts. Maybe it was just me. Sorry! :)
>>12212323this was me btw: >>12212297 and >>12212304
>>12212181>no one playing shmups today found them by looking at a big pile of garbage and picking the most superficially appealing crap that was unpopular enough for them to pretend to be different and quirky.You're trying way too hard. If you think Ikaruga didn't introduce shmups to shittons of hardcore shmup players today, you are dead wrong. The reason why it did that is almost entirely superficial appeal. Superficially appealing stuff absolutely works in cases where it also may elicit a sort of post-honeymoon phase dissatisfaction and a desire to explore further. But to even get to that point you still need to play the fucking game.
>>12212323>You are literally me.How is trying to bully people into playing shitty ass gradius and pushing cinematic console shmups in line with that? Just go play raystorm if you want a visually appealing 3D game of that era, that actually has really cool mechanics and a lock on system that works with the level design really well to make the game fun and snappy. Taito games in general prioritize aesthetic presentation. Except play rayforce first. Because raystorm is the hardest Taito game and there's more resources on learning rayforce. Rayforce is also notable as it can be considered the first modern shmup, and I think it draws a pretty broad line between what is crap and what is good, and it makes gradius practically look like a dinosaur by comparison.
>>12212328Ikaruga ruined the genre. Fuck off. I hate treasure specifically for this reason.There's this thing called orthogonality of mechanics. Think about mechanics as 3D/4D/nD axis, and fun as a coordinate in the space defined by them.All Treasure games add superficial complexity with an overdose of graphics to trigger a response. I hated Ikaruga, and hated how they ruined the legacy of Gradius with V.I also think DoDonpachi fell of hard after DDP3 with shit like Hyper.>Genre: Shmup>Goal: Shoot enemies + Dodge bullets (this is the fundamental of STG and should be respected)>muh Ikaruga is good intro for the genre>Goal: Shoot enemies + Absorb Bullets fuck off
Stop replying
>>12211516Why would you use stand-alone mame except for very niche game... just use Retroarch. It has Mame and FBNeo cores.For arcade there are two main cores:,fbneo and mame. Fbneo is preferable to mame for 2D games but it has less game compatibility than mame (mostly 3D games).>>12211606...But you get per-game controls on retroarch too, what are you talking about?People complain that retroarch has too many options, not that it doesn't have enough.
>>12212328>If you think Ikaruga didn't introduce shmups to shittons of hardcore shmup players todayIkaruga is an insanely difficult and high quality game and harder than 99% of what gets discussed here. Even the Japanese STG wiki ranks NORMAL mode above most CAVE shmups. And none of that had to do with superficial appeal, it's that unique and refreshing departure from decades of pure bullet streaming and macro dodging that put it on the map as something novel, however frustrating the chaining system can be at times. And it's a huge improvement over radiant silvergun in that regard as well.
>cave tranny still seething at gradius and treasuregod bless op for starting with gradius 5
>>12212343OP is a retard that isn't going to 1cc any of those games and he's been at it for at least 4 months.
>>12212343Don't lump all CAVE enjoyers with that autistic fuck, thank you very much.
>>12212331>How is trying to bully people into playing shitty ass gradius and pushing cinematic console shmups in line with that?Because most people don't have the ability to introspect and figure out exactly what they like. Which is why, I tried to lure him towards Psikyo games. He says he likes the over the top presentation, but your brain gets over it really fast. I firmly believe in the concept of "games don't age". If a game was good when it was released, then the passage of time, can't magically make it bad. But also because I believe shmups are the only genre that provides hardcore gameplay, with "superficial" visual/audio design. Gradius is a good game, and it's really fun to play Progear (really good and also superficial visual/audio) and realize how different can two shmups feel. You can't go wrong with Gradius or R-Type, Psikyo is another beast. I already said, how the only flaw of Gradius is how boring the early game is. And Parodius fixes that (I would say it is objectively better than Gradius).The biggest litmus test is the ability to "consistently" 1CC a game, including recovery, playing without bombs, speed killing, etc.
>>12212339>...But you get per-game controls on retroarch too, what are you talking about?No, you configure a default retro pad, and memorize what A/B/X/Y/L/R etc are defined to.Then per core, you map A to whatever the console has could be Square for Sony, I II III IV V, for turbografx engine, then you have to mentally map retroarch's A to the keyboard that you defined, press that button. The problem is the middle layer that no body asked for, just let me map my default keyboard.With mame its simple. Button 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. You set them once, and they are the same in every core.
>>12212352>You can't go wrong with Gradius or R-Type, Psikyo is another beast.But those games are all awful.
>>12212361Post your 1CC, and then I will believe you actually played them instead of "superficially" giving them a try. >create a youtube account>post your 1cc>refer to this request in the description>attach the mame replay, so I can see if you cheated
>>12212360>keyboardhere's your problem
>>12212328Ikaruga's presentation is tied to the fact that it needs to be grinded for weeks. It's not arbitrary.
>>12212365Bro, my fucking arcade stick doesn't work either. I wanna have a cohesive system. Good luck, configuring both a controller+arcade stick+keyboard combo on retroarch.
>>12212364A 1cc of what? Because I can probably bang out an r-type delta 1cc in ~2 hours, as the r-type series is for retards. And what will I get out of doing this? If I do it will you promise to go away forever?
>>12212367Too bad, I am more interested in dodging bullets not passing through them selectively.
>>12212369Do it, brah. Remember, I will know if you cheated.
>>12212370You have to do a lot of unreasonably disgustingly difficult micrododging in ikaruga.
>>12212339>Why would you use stand-alone mameI don't like the unnecessarily added layer of abstraction on top of regular emulation. I have had worse performance with other consoles using RA a few years ago (they may very well be fixed by now)>>12212352>tried to lure him towards PsikyoOne of the games I've tried and ended up enjoying was Samurai Ace actually so thanks for that, I think I've got couple titles to occupy myself with and git gud at for the near future.
>>12212374>You have to do a lot of unreasonably disgustingly difficult micrododging in ikarugaI mean, even Thunder Force has a little section where it turns into a shmup. But I won't play it, just for that section alone.
>>12212373Why did you not answer my question? Will you fuck off forever, yes or no? I will use the official port that just came out, as it's pretty trivial to just run a script on mame. (System11 is infamous for doing this and has had tons of drama due to forum celebrities cheating in this manner)
>>12212375Guess what, I am currently grinding Samurai Ace too.
>>12212335>I hated IkarugaThat ties back into my point, though. Would someone playing Ikaruga as their first shmup also feel the same way and reach the same conclusions pre-emptively? If you believe that your conclusions are correct then you should believe that that's possible. >>12212338No.>>12212341>it's that unique and refreshing departure from decades of pure bullet streaming and macro dodging that put it on the map as something novelThe fact it captured a non-shmup player audience at the time makes that a moot point. The presentation and basic selling point of the game got the attention of people who've never even played the shmups that Ikaruga is riffing off of to begin with.>>12212367That's exactly right, and that's something which applies to any difficult shmup out there. So ask yourself why Ikaruga was able to leverage that as a marketable selling point when other shmups couldn't.
>>12212376Ikaruga is literally constant oppressive micrododging, the bullet switching is just an additional mechanic which becomes even more oppressive on hard as everything pukes revenge bullets. So you can't just sit at the back of the screen with a wide shot like in your dad shmups. I get why you're upset, trust me dude. Beginners are terrified of shmups that require aggression.
>>12212378>Why did you not answer my question? Will you fuck off forever, yes or no?Yep
>>12212385As I said, what is the core mechanic of Ikaruga?Dodge X while ignoring Y, and toggle. And that simply turns Ikaruga into a spin off shmup. I don't care about the "ignoring Y" but the game is built around that.
sisters you're gonna scare our new guest away with such reckless autism
>>12212383>So ask yourself why Ikaruga was able to leverage that as a marketable selling point when other shmups couldn't.Because it was ported to the GameCube and advertised everywhere in the West. That's why I own a physical copy, anyways. Advertising is quirky like that, Mushihimesama actually has more reviews than ikaruga on steam, because it was such a big deal on that particular platform and became a staple game to own. And to that end zeroranger has more reviews than both and I wonder if people really understand the implications of that yet.
>>12212387Answer the question directly. Tell me>I will fuck off forever if you 1cc r-type delta
>>12212383>So ask yourself why Ikaruga was able to leverage that as a marketable selling point when other shmups couldn't.Because it was the Devil Blade Reboot of its time.In a world where players are conditioned for skinner box rewards, like unlocking stuff = achievement, big shinny thing = achievement, level up = achievement. Even though the player didn't improve at all, it's all fake. Ikaruga/Devil Blade comes and give them a reward for actually doing the bare minimum and they all lose their shit.How many casuals do you think actually 1CC'd Ikaruga? I would argue less than 5%. What % of Shmup players think Ikaruga is a good game? Even less.
>>12212396Let him leave if he wants to. People here actually care about the games they play. This is not a junk food restaurant. It's a shushi bar, for some its autism.
>>12212404Sorry, I missed "delta" in your reply because you lumped it with Psikyo in my Reply. You can assume, I am backing out or maybe find it even easier. I am talking about the OG R-Type. That's why I mentioned the "mame replay", so I can see if you cheated or not. But if you do that, I will gladly fuck off.
>>12212408>What % of Shmup players think Ikaruga is a good game?There is not a single person who is good at shmups that thinks Ikaruga is a bad game. Complaining about Ikaruga is the mark of a poseur, it's like people who whiny about touhou, when literally every single super player plays touhou religiously. Ikaruga is simply an intermediate level game, that's why it's talked about less. Additionally, modern doujin shmups make use of unlockables why doing away with vestigial arcade elements. Blue Revolver doesn't even have credits/continues, Zeroranger gamifies them in the second loop, etc. Missions, alt modes, unlockables, and so forth are to be expected and will be the default going forward. Is rinne tensei bad because it has a challenge modes and unlockable art? Gosh I hope not, because it's probably the best shmup release in the last 25+ years and I'm not exagerrating there.
>>12212381Sweet. I also understand now what the other anon said about 'credit feeding', the second I went ahead with that all motivation suddenly evaporated. Feels like backing up your save in a traditional roguelike, no stakes = no fun.>>12212414I'm really confused why you equate me checking out a new genre by playing through a handful of games that "looked & sounded cool" with npc consoomerism and junkfood mentality. In no way does that make any sense. Do you approach any new interest or medium by consulting several Top 10 lists instead of going with what you personally enjoy? That sounds performative and sad.
>>12212423Again, in Touhou you actually "dodge" bullets. I know who you are talking about when you say, super players love Ikaruga. The guy who literally clears every single shmup ever released, bad or shit, doesn't matter and then gives his opinion. Has his own method of clearing shmups as fast as possible, he doesn't play shmups, he plays on a meta layer. He doesn't explore, he know step 1, route the shit out of everything. I don't listen to players who don't have any standards about what they are going to clear. To me they are the same as the people who buy every single Resident Evil game every year. If you are a Resident Evil fan you wouldn't even touch anything released after 5 or even 4, some might even go to 3.
>>12212423>it's like people who whiny about touhou, when literally every single super player plays touhou religiouslyThe fuck? stop lying to yourself.
>>12212428It was intended to the guy, I was replying to. That's why I said, "if he wants to". You are free to make your own opinion about the genre.
>>12212430Oh don't mind him, he's talking about shmup body count players. Just read Full Extent of the Jam, and you will see how soul draining that PDF is. It literally treats every shmup as a black box, gives you a recipe to clear it. And guess what it actually works.
>>12212429>Has his own method of clearing shmups as fast as possible, he doesn't play shmups, he plays on a meta layerWhat the fuck am I reading, imagine being on this many layers on denial because you're shittier than 2hu gods.
>>12212430j*imers love touhou>b-but hes a gaijin, not a true salary man- like me
>>12212435Fugg, my bad.
>>12212428>equate me checking out a new genre by playing through a handful of games that "looked & sounded cool"It's a slippery slope. The games industry is famous for treating its players like a lab rat. Spider has a good take:https://youtu.be/sDa6agrtvlc?t=4743
>>12212435No, don't cope out. You said it was bad advice. But you didn't give him the good advice. Let's hear it.
>>12212439>Just read Full Extent of the Jam, and you will see how soul draining that PDF isIt's literally just basic and poorly written information on how to approach shmups. And dissecting and learning the game is the fun and interesting part, what a strange post to make.
>>12212408>level up = achievementOh, here we go with this forced diatribe again. Role-playing games are not like that at all.
>>12212452Bro, just read it. It literally says: It's a guide for DoDonpachi, but the method here can be applied to other shmups.Step 1: Watch somebody else play it, and copy the route as exactly as you can, memorize it.Wow.
>>12212449>You said it was bad adviceCan you point me to it? There's a lot of cross referencing in this thread, so its hard to keep track of context.
>>12212448>It's a slippery slope.Is it though? I have a lot of confidence in my own judgment and tastes and despite lacking specific niche knowledge about genre conventions, I am still very much able to discern when and why something feels "well-crafted" to me and why I enjoy the things I enjoy.
>>12212457>Watch somebody else play it, and copy the route as exactly as you can, memorize it.Yeah, do that. That's literally how shmups are designed. You wait for your turn at the cab in the arcade and watch other people play, then build on that run. Beginners should always do this, don't even question it, just do it and learn from better people. Then maybe start thinking for yourself and go "hmmmm maybe I don't need to bomb here and can bomb somethong else i find trickier, maybe I can get more score here, maybe this has alternate solutions and a different player does this better, etc". And don't learn from super players, find people of a similar skill level to yourself. And the farther you go along and progress, the more sparse those resources are gunna get. That's literally how it works and the really cool thing about shmups is that it's like a big group of indirectly connected people all pulling each other upwards, which is something that exists in all games with competitive elements, regardless of whether players realize they are competing or not. That's what competition really is, people pulling each other upwards.
>>12212469I am just gonna let others read your response.
>>12212483Are you shocked that shmups aren't some trial and error goyslop where you can just bulldoze through the game intuitively? Because if you want that just go play some dumb movie game and don't bother with this genre.
>>12212485Another great response. This combined with >>12212469 really tells a story about you.
>>12212483He's correct, are you a moron?
>>12212483That's literally how shmups work.
>>12212469"watch a game movie">>12212485"play a movie game"
>>12212496>>12212497If you cant beat it on your own with your own trial and error then its not good game design, copy monkeys
>>12212501Is studying a chess match "watching a game movie"? This is like the foundation of games. Maybe you've been looking at games wrong all along.
>>12212502If I can thoughtlessly beat a game through trial and error then its a bad game.
>>12212505>If I can thoughtlessly drive a car without crashing it then its a bad car.
>>12212502ssh, just let them state if they agree with it or not. It's funny to see how these 1CC body count guys actually treat games.This message: >>12212469is a litmus test, to see if you vibe with a shmup player or not.
>>12212509If I can enter a nascar race and win without looking at what others are doing, studying, and practicing, then yeah, that's a pretty shitty race and not a fun game to play.
>>12212510>to see if you vibeon skibidi fr
>>12212503Modern Chess is the FullExtentOfTheJam version of Chess. Look up the origin of chest, it was designed to be played casually with guests or friends.And what did we do with it? Feed it into a computer, computed every single possible move, figure out openings, solve it, etc.
>>12212514You can.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3yNc5EasW8
>>12212523Another great response. We should add it to the chain.
>>12212521>Look up the origin of chest, it was designed to be played casually with guests or friends.Uh no, the origins of chess is a tool for training military officers.
>>12212523>nascar driver rides the wall to secure a good position in the race>it's one of the most memorable moments in the sport's history and everybody likes it"muh difficult games" autists BTFO
>>12212503You play chess against opponents, each game is unique and dynamic.Shmups are scripted and fixed, random patterns are rare, "studying" just means memorizing and copying routes. Try again.
>>12212530lmao
>>12212535Is someone who shoots at a target at an archery competition not just copying and building on the technique of others? This is just a retarded attempt at a point and you're gunna keep samefagging and throwing fistfuls of spaghetti at the wall hoping something will stick.
>>12212535And according to this guy: >>12212469Shmups are:>memorizing and copying routesEssentially, shmups are a job that doesn't pay you. Do you enjoy memorizing and copying others? Play Shmups.
>>12212536
>>12212538Strongest Learning from others vs Weakest intuition enjoyer
>>12212542FUCKING KEKMan the future is bleak. Can't w
The most fun part of a game is to figure out how to overcome it in the middle of the action.If you have to watch someone else play it and memorize what they do, you're not playing a game. You're studying for a test. A game that reminds you of school is a bad game.
OP's entire world view is crumbling right now.
>>12212469>that's literally how shmups are designed. You wait for your turn at the cab in the arcade and watch other people play,
>>12212550A game can only be so hard if you can intuitively react to it. And that ceiling is extremely low. Someone who hates learning isn't cut out to play games and would probably be happier binging netflix.
>>12212550Nah bro, this is not the genre for you. That's literally not how shmups works as pointed out by this: >>12212469
>>12212552You don't get it bro, the guy on the chair is improving his skill, he's gonna memorize the entire thing and then try to replicate it exactly step by step.
that's literally how wives are designed, invite a bull and watch and learn from better people how to properly fuck her, it's called studying
>>12212552also saved
Some players, I have found, are against the use of replays, because they feel watching replays to learn from other people's work is similar to cheating. For those players, here is a little paragraph that I really hope will squeeze that bad idea out of your mind. Let me put it this way : do you think chess players learn to play by themselves, playing against themselves or against a few friends only, studying the game without outside help ? No, they study the game in books, get help from chess teachers, take inspiration from their opponents play, and from games that they spectate.The same goes for pretty much anything you learn in your life. Teachers, books, communication, let you gain so much intelligence and knowledge that you could never have gotten by yourself. If you are isolated in nature from birth, you become a caveman and nothing more.In the case of a STG, the final score that you obtain is a rating of your performance in the timespan of a single run. Outside of that final high scoring run, any means, and I mean ANY, are good to practice and learn. This is very important. Stop thinking of the game as something you have to overcome all by yourself – which is illusionary anyway since you will definitely watch other players or talk with other players at some points.You should probably also realize that the best DoDonPachi scores use paths that have been worked on and refined during years of playing the game in arcades, with many great players watching each other. You will not discover those paths by yourself in 5 years. Not even close. So use those damn paths which are served to you in nice video format !!
>>12212557>A game can only be so hard if you can intuitively react to itHow difficult do you fucking need it to be? How would you beat a game that you can't beat without watching someone else play it?>Oh boy I wish baseball had the added risk of the opponent team breaking my kneecaps if my team loses, it's too easy!What a non-taxpayer problem.
>>12212565
>>12212569>How difficult do you fucking need it to be?https://youtu.be/sw5YbWQ8KcMEvery genre is like this, every great game is like this. Q3A is literally memorizing the maps, thats a huge part of the game. It would be boring if it was just clicking on heads.
>>12212568I am not against replays, I just don't care about how others play a game. But because of >>12212469I know this genre is literally not designed for me.I see score, I try to beat it. There's a huge gap? Is it because of milking? (Bad game design)Is it because of skill? (You could have figured out that yourself and learned something intrinsic about the game, but you chose to copy and denied yourself the opportunity to grow)
>>12212570Holy, thanks.
Well shmup general, you enabled some retarded normalfag and now you've got a wojak posting underage sharty kid, good job. Thank god you protected this innocent well-to-do poster.
>>12212573And the ultimate result of that is the arena shooter genre being dead as shit.
>>12212574>I know this genre is literally not designed for me.Every genre is that, games have always been that. You're just really bad and thought you liked video games when you were really just consuming them passively.
>>12212579Just tell us your thoughts about this: >>12212469
>>12212580>And the ultimate result of that is the arena shooter genre being dead as shit.But Counterstrike is also literally that. And so is every other popular shooter.
>>12212582>let me beat this puzzle game by "studying" the solutions
>>12212583Its correct. Watch replays. Imagine playing a fighting game without ever learning how the character is played and just absent mindedly trying to outmash the other guy. Its just so odd that you're having a melty over this. I have no idea where you came from but you need to go back there.
>>12212590sshh, just let him spout more
>>12212587Not it isn't. CS is a tactical shooter. It removed bunnyhopping very early in its development and you don't have to memorize where guns are placed on the map because you buy them at the start.
>>12212590Puzzles are not games. Puzzles are solved. Games are won. Puzzle *games* don't have solutions, things like tetris isn't something that is just solved. It has a score, it can be played against opponents. A jigsaw puzzle is not a game. In this way, the games you likely consume are in fact not games, but very poorly put together and simple jigsaw puzzles presented cinematically.
>>12212594>Not it isn'thttps://youtu.be/Hhy0ur1TjhQ
>>12212595Puzzles are a form of play. They're games. Dictionaries written when your great-grandfather was still alive define puzzles as a type of game.What is this delusion?
>>12212604>What is this delusion?Just read his entire chain of replies.
>>12212604>Puzzles are a form of play. They're games.Puzzles are not games. Puzzles are solved. Games are won. Puzzle *games* don't have solutions, things like tetris isn't something that is just solved. It has a score, it can be played against opponents. A jigsaw puzzle is not a game. In this way, the games you likely consume are in fact not games, but very poorly put together and simple jigsaw puzzles presented cinematically.
>>12212604No, puzzles can be games but all puzzles are definitely not games. This is an absurd claim to make.
>>12212613>>12212606Here's an argument lil bro.A puzzle is something that gives the exact same output, if the exact same input is provided.Which is why once it is solved, its over.Tetris is a game, because two players providing the same sequence of input at the same time, will have a different outcome. This means the game requires "active" decision making.Meanwhile, two players executing a similar input on a shmup will give you the exact score. Shmups are puzzles, i.e, not games.
>>12212618Chess is a game, because two opposing players executing the same move, will have to divert at some point because the rules of the game itself won't allow it.Meanwhile, in a shmup there's no such thing. Apply the same route, same input, and viola, same score.
>>12212618How about roguelite modes
>>12212618I'm tired of these boring "arguments" that are worse than what AI can come up with. You need to lurk for 2 years, this is just retarded.
>>12212582You can't preprogram inputs in a videogame and win it every single time. Any slight change in the game's speed or even an enemy designed to shoot bullets in random directions will change the entire outcome.
>>12212621That's slot machine. Your input literally doesn't matter its a way to make you "feel" in control meanwhile you are not. You can obfuscate it, by giving some control, and you get roguelite. Did you beat the boss because you got better? Or because you unlock something every run?
>>12212618What are you, 13 years old? You're just desperately trolling and arguing cyclically now.
>>12212618>>12212613>>12212606It is said that chess is a "solved game" and that every single move and gambit has counterplay, hence why machines regularly beat world champions at every turn.You know why? Because chess has finite moves, but the number of moves is bigger than the number of atoms in the universe. It can be memorized, and therefore solve every possible matchup with a 100% winrate, but no human being ever will. Is it a game or a puzzle, "lil bro"?
is void stranger a game?
>>12212626>>12212635something is something>arbitrary shit>muh ru 13
>>12212630>you unlock something every runWhat about roguelites where the things you unlock actively make the game harder instead of easier? Can you make a single argument that is not a caricatured strawman?
>>12212638Yeah
>>12212641>where the things you unlock actively make the game harder instead of easierThen what was the point of the earlier runs? It's like playing chess but you start with all pawns, and everytime you win, you unlock the other units. Just give me the final hard game.
>>12212638No.
>>12212630Don't bring unlock strawman into this, roguelike in this context just means randomized/procgen. Some shmups or puzzle games have procgen modes so you can't just look up routes or solutions.
>>12212660There is no procedurally generated shmup that is hard. This is why completing a Star of Providence run is even easier than clearing a touhou game on normal and the meat of the game is in its static trials.
>>12212650>what was the point of the earlier runsCurveballs that discourage player complacency are a good thing. See? I can throw around platitudes too.
>>12212670>See? I can throw around platitudes too.Next time, how about you start with this? Much better than coming up with retarded arguments that you don't even care about.
>>12212674>my argument is more logically sound because... I care so much about it!That's not how this works.
>>12212680Read this >>12212670 and understand what went wrong, if you can't then move on.
The "rule" of 1cc'ing alone automatically makes shmups a game, not a box of pieces to be put together. This is ignoring obvious things like scoring. You have to execute it yourself, fully. If you sit there and credit feed or use save states, yeah it may as well be a puzzle, but that's not how shmups are played. This whole series of posts is just retarded as hell.
>>12212691>watch the solution to a jigsaw puzzle>memorize the position of every piece>but you have to execute the process of putting it together yourselfnice
>>12212683You tell me what went wrong with your argument. I'm just playing devil's advocate to clear up some of your confusion and help you define your thoughts a bit better.
>>12212693>but you save time by watching others instead of trying to figure out everything by yourselfYou save time, by not playing it in the first place then.
>>12212693Is there any challenge to putting the pieces together? If you add a timer to how quickly you have to do it, sure, it becomes a game, with times you can improve upon. Is it a good game? I dunno, but that doesn't matter.This is all just so obvious. It's common sense and the only kind of person who'd think otherwise is the kind of retard who thinks reloading saves in an rpg or something over and over is peak video games or something. So odd. Like if we look at AAA "games" today so many are just moronic simulacrums of vidya with no real gameplay you can just beat your head against and win.
>>12212708Well? What's more important in a shmup for you?1. Figuring stuff out 2. Executing stuff figured out by othersAre shmups designed for 1 or 2?
>>12212691Are you brain damaged? "Puzzle" is a whole genre of video games. No one mentioned physical jigsaw puzzles but you.
>>12212691>The "rule" of 1cc'ing alone automatically makes shmups a game, not a box of pieces to be put together.What the fuck did he mean by this
you know what y'all need? a true gaming philosopher like Mark to settle these arguments once and for all
>>12212768mark has the same tunnel vision as this retardterminal shmup brainrot
>>12212721The appeal of a video game is in the act of putting the puzzle pieces together, not solving the puzzle. In this way it can be continuously replayed. Connecting each piece is fun, and it's fun to do it again and again. And it's why it's important to study replays and tackle a hard game like that, because once you finally see it you can't unsee it and suddenly it becomes very stupid feeling to hammer through some shitty narrative game to see who commander shepard romances.
>learn the basics (streaming, restreaming, pointblank, etc.)>enjoy save state practicing >enjoy watching replays>build a route that I can execute somewhat reliably>finally get the 1cc after a combined 100hrs of practicing feels good man, I love shmups. The initial grind to figure out how to actually play shmups was pretty bad ngl, but after getting over that hump the genre is way more enjoyable. The sperging anon is a bit right imo, it really take a particular type of austist to play these games. I don't think I would appreciate them nearly as much if I didn't set a goal for a 1cc.
>>12211997>It's just memorizing positionsIt's not, memorization is less than half of the work. If you don't know how to solve the level you'll have nothing to memorize, if you can't reliably and repeatedly execute your plan you won't make it, and most importantly you need the ability to get back to your planned position once you inevitably fall off route, which requires fast thinking, adaptability and good dodging. You're dismissing and banalizing something that requires skills you certainly don't have.
>>12212551dude i just woke up and saw i had 151 new posts on my threadi have nothing to do with whatever the fuck this iswhat even is my "worldview" you schizo retards are fighting ghosts
>>12212890>if you can't reliably and repeatedly execute your planThat's kind of the point I'm making, the execution is often terribly unfun and boring. Like parking just under a boss and holding down shot for 20 seconds is not fun. That's not good game design and just because a game is old doesn't mean it should be shielded from criticism. Like a toaplan game sure as fuck would never do something like that, and if we're talking horizontal shmups, darius will often have bosses slam down and crush you for trying to sit in one place for too long. Often not the case in games like gradius and r-type.
>>12212943>Like parking just under a boss and holding down shot for 20 seconds is not funNo game requires that, it's just an exploit. The bosses are designed to be engaged with, and if you do you will have more fun and your scores will be higher.>darius will often have bosses slam down and crush you for trying to sit in one place for too longDarius has plenty of exploits too, the first and most iconic boss in the series is completely powerless against you if you stay still above his dorsal fin. If you're not willing to actively engage with it and beat it you're the reason why you're not having fun, it's like reviewers finishing shmups with 50+ credits and then complaining that the games are too short.
>>12212957Not him but Gradius II has intentional safespots
>>12212959The exploits are often intentional and widely used by game testers during development, but they're never mandatory.
>>12212957>No game requires that, it's just an exploitDon't accuse me of not playing games and then say some secondary shit like that. The fact of the matter is that if something is hard to do it should look cool and feel cool to do, and if it's not then it's just ball torture. This is what CAVE took from Toaplan and they push it to it's absolute breaking point. You see this in pretty much every shmup from Rayforce onwards, all these devs are focusing on making games super cool and it put tons of variety into the genre.
Don't careDidn't readStill credit feeding my away to the end and having funAnd I WILL add the game to the list of games I already beat
>>12213013big scrub energy
>>12212376>even Thunder Force has a little section where it turns into a shmupwhere
>>12204378I cleared 3 on mania but couldn't clear 4 on hard.
>>12213013You can skip all that by watching someone else beat it and pretend you did
>>12213980You forgot to read this line, buddy.
Double vs. Vertical vs. Tailgun vs. Free Way vs. SpreadWhich one /vr/
>>12213013I was with you until the last part
How long did it take you guys to get a 1cc on Normal in Gradius VBecause rn I feel like I could probably do the first 3 stages without dying, and maybe the 4th stage without continuing, but once I get to Blaster Cannon Core it all goes out the window. Die at least once on that, then you get to stage 6 with the green slime of unclear hitboxes and random physics and I'm completely cooked. Then the boss rush and all the other shit after that that I haven't even gotten to yet with my current amount of credits.
>>12213980Didn't you do a lot of that while waiting in line at the arcade like a little faggot scrub as better people cleared the game and had fun credit-feeding to their heart's content? lmao
Question: which game in the Fantasy Zone series do you like better? The first one or 2 DX?
>>122153452 DXhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OoxO7-8Y5s
>>12213708It wasn't as difficult as I expected. Once you have a strategy for all the bosses it shouldn't be hard to put things together and even if things go wrong you can usually recover. Just try to avoid losing the hunter you get from stage 2, as the homing bullets really help in stages 6&7.If you get the hidden free way from stage 1 (start of underwater sequence, bottom right) you can rely on it in stage 4 and save stage 3 for afterwards to get a new shield.If you lose your claw in stage 7 you can get one at the start of stage 8 (hidden at the bottom left, there's also a blade to the right). The first miniboss is easy with the thunder sword but the second one can be tricky and it's extra important to avoid dying there to make the next minibosses easier.There's also a rail gun hidden before the fourth miniboss. And before the final boss of the stage there's a 1-up on the other side of a wall, there's also a hidden shield there and on the other side is a hidden claw. Get it before the boss sequence starts or it will disappearI didn't think stage 9 was too bad on hard but it's a lot tougher on maniac. Those silver ball enemies fire much faster and are hard to handle while dealing with the miniboss and the torpedo launching guys just before.Also I'm thinking it might be better to use the thunder sword against those wisps at the end rather than trying to dodge them with pure movement.
I've settled on my loadout for trying to get my first 1cc of Gradius VIt's basically the Gradius III Type B loadout, Spread Bomb, Tailgun, Ripple, Freeze, Force Field.Spread Bomb kills bosses fast enough that I don't really feel super gimped from not using the Fire Blaster or E-Laser, plus Ripple's just a lot easier to use in stages than either of those. Tailgun's useful for Stage 3 and the end of Stage 6.
