Just finished replaying FF4.Nope, still don't like it.
>>12239145proof of concept/tech demo for 6 actually good games that come after it.
>>12239180>implying FFX is good
>>12239218>best story in the series>best battle system in the series>second best cast after VII>most postgame content in the series>one of the best settingsId say thats pretty fucking good. it doesnt have a world map is the only real issue.
>>12239296>world mapGood riddance. Unnecessary and wasteful. Playtime padding.
>>12239306>t. never explored a world map and found a hidden area off the beaten path inciting a sense of childlike wonder
>>12239309I explored and found random encounters
>>12239145Just finished rewatching a 20 hour movie again.Nope, still didn't like it.I'm smart!
I can't remember the last time I saw an interesting Final Fantasy thread. I guess all the intelligent people moved on long ago and it's just midwits circling like attention seeking vultures, jabbering on about the same tired talking points.RIP FF, once I cared.
>>12239218We been through this. 7 is the best, followed by 5, 8 and 10. 4, 6 and 9 come after.
>>12239451OP here. I was just planning on making the one post and then fucking off, but you're smoking crack if you think that 8 is better than 6, 9, or 10. For me its:7>9>6>5>3>10>12>1>8>15>4>2>13Haven't played 16. Want to check it out purely out of "fan obligation," but I've been doing the "I'll just play it out of curiosity" dance with this series for over a decade now with mostly negative results.
>>12239145Though I personally really liked it, I'm glad you actually took time to play it yourself. For me it was the perfect GBA Final Fantasy to whip out for half an hour every other day til I beat it. Of course the story doesn't stack up to the later sequels but I enjoyed it for it's characters and light-heartedness. And since some other people are doing this, I'll go ahead a post my ranking of the series too (though I haven't played 1-3 or 11-current)7>6>10>9>4>8>5
>>12239335Came here to post this. Is your time really that worthless, op?
>>12239880>For me it was the perfect GBA Final Fantasy to whip out for half an hour every other day til I beat itI feel like that's probably the best way to play the game. I've played the 2D version of FF4 three times now (PS1, GBA, PR) and had the best time with the GBA port. I was marathoning the Pixel Remaster in six-hour sessions and by the Subterrane I just wanted the fucking thing over with. The petty annoyances I had with the battle system just piled on and on.
Its the best of the pre-VII games.
>>12239908May I ask why? I'm debating either replaying 6 or playing 4 for the first time.
>>12239924Im not that anon and im not some turn based rpg expert connoisseur but ff4 holds a special place in my heart for having a more traditional medieval setting and for its incredible soundtrack thats arguably the best of the entire series. Its a very comfy game imo and im surprised to see so many people talk so poorly of it but maybe someone who knows more about jrpgs could explain why the actual gameplay is good or bad cause like I said im kind of a casual when it comes to the genre
>>12239145I loved the remake. Played it 3 times over on the DS and eventually Steam 10-15 years ago.
The only thing about 4 that's bad is the overuse of killing characters who are often not dead to keep the drama going, but the music, themes and adventure are great. You can only compare it to games like Chrome Trigger and the three later FF games to find it lacking. It's better than the dragon quest games and breath of fire, which also wipe the floor with modern jrpgs. FF 1,2 and 3 don't even get appraised at all despite their releases and how we can all now play them, because 4 is a must play game. It has flaws but it's like saying a new hope is too basic a movie compared to the other star wars films, it's the game that created the formula.
>>12240453Don't worry, you provided good reasons. And hell if it's special to someone then it is doing something right
All retro jRPGs are aimed at children. Playing old children's games without any supporting nostalgia is a very odd thing to do.
>>12240487Playing it emotionally and then shitposting with tierlists like you're on /v/?Yeah.But if you're capable of detachment and analytical thinking you can discuss old games even when there's no nostalgia.
>>12240509You cannot appreciate a children's game objectively using an adult mindset.
>>12240453The things I don't like about FF4 are all really vague and I may as well say I don't like "the vibes," but playing the game just feels like a constant pain in the ass to me. I can point out a couple of things, like how the early ATB just gave the enemy free reign to dogpile your ass since it feels like it's ALWAYS their turn. Get a pre-emptive strike and you might get two actions off before they all start relentlessly pounding you. The long charge times on almost everything you do doesn't help how unfair it feels. I've never liked the ATB, but later games at least balanced it better to make it feel like you and the enemy were playing by the same rules.Another problem I have is that the game forces the worst goddamn party compositions on you for most of the dungeons. Yeah, go up this mountain with a team of two mages that die in a hit and run out of MP after a couple of battles and a melee fighter who's intentionally useless against all the enemies there. But don't worry, here comes someone else to help out... and it's another mage that's arguably worse than the other two you already have. Then later you have to go through a cave that punishes melee characters with a team of three melee characters and a mage with 90 MP. Like I said, it just feels like a constant pain in the ass. And since there's no team building or progression or anything to serve as a distraction, that feeling never lets up. It's not all bad. I really like the stretch from Tower of Zot to the Giant of Babil, but I just speed through everything before and after.
>>12240481Level-headed take here.Its part of the must-play SNES trilogy: 4,5,6And then there's the must-play PSX trilogy: 7,8,9The rest is gay and no one takes its fans seriously.
>>12240745>go up this mountain with a team of two mages that die in a hit and run out of MP after a couple of battlesUse the rods as items to cast spells over and over. That's what I did as a kid. I think they also made that part a bit of a pain for Cecil on purpose to juxtapose the powers he has after the class change.
>>12240764Actually let me amend this. The must play PSX trilogy is 7,9 and Tactics. There, now all traces of gayness have been excised.
>>122407688 if you a chad, fagtics if you a lil dweeb
>>122407767 was the cultural phenomenon8 was "stuff any dork who likes this into a locker"9 was a bone thrown to the OG fans before shit went off-the-rails retarded
>>12240481In FF4 almost every death/sacrifice has zero long term consequences, removing all of their weight. Meanwhile not only did everyone stay dead in 2, the bonus mode for the GBA version let you play them simultaneously fighting the final boss from hell. Galuf also had a better death scene than all of the fakeouts in 4 combined, and Celes' deserted island scene has more narrative agency than probably any death in the series. Its an ok game, but its story feels so fucking lame aside from its theming and a few moments like the class change. Not a good look when the game is so on rails you never even get to control your revolving door party comp. The music is pretty sick at times though, and it was neat having such a big combat party. Its a shame because its still fine, just easily the weakest of the SNES games because the others play its strengths much stronger.
>>12240764>>12240768>>12240776>>12240790boring and off-topic
>>12240804The shittier later games contextualize how good 4 actually is. Its belongs among the entries of when the series was in its purest, untainted form.
Does FF4 on SNES have any bugs I should know about?
>>12240791>parroting the standard baitDiscovering lost companions is the long-term consequences to the story, retard. This isn't grimderp pseud lit it's just a fun epic adventure plot for 8-13 year olds.Got me to bite so congrats.
>>12241119What standard bait? You could have used a fucking g needle on the twins, and half the survivals were out of absolutely nowhere. Discovering a lost companion was shit like Rydia rejoining, or Kain getting his shit together. Undoing deaths is just fucking stupid and undermines the entire point of the sacrifices. If you hear it a lot, its because you're the only one too fucking stupid to understand concepts like stakes and dramatic impact. And if thats your excuse, why doesn't Tella just drink an elixir and recover?Again, its not that its a bad game, but its story is just shit. Fuck Doga and Une were more meaningful than the melodrama that came with the fakeouts throughout 4. And again, almost every FF around it does fallen hero stories much better already.
>>12241132>why didn't krillin stay fucking dead, bro.you are playing children's games, anon, and crying about the narrative.grow up.
>>12239145fair enough
>>12241221Did FF4 have some underlying theme about fucking dragonballs? 6's narritive was about shit like grief/depression/ptsd/nihilism and the final fight was a speedrun through the divine comedy. Tactics heavily references the war of the roses. FF4's story is just shit by comparison to even limited shit like 2 and 3 before it.
>>12240481new hope is a funny comparison.>>12240745>early ATByeah without visual indicators of what was happening with the timing that would be innovated later, that could lead to confusion, especially the way the increments calculated.>>12240745>I just speed through everything before and after.There's lots of game mechanics that never really get communicated to the player in a clear way that makes a difference to the earlier and late games.>>12240791>but its story feels so fucking lame aside from its theming and a few moments like the class changeIts quite simplified, but its a story about a puppet kingdom warring with its weaker neighbors to obtain a weapon to exterminate all life on the planet and make way for aliens to settle the planet instead. Seems a decent backdrop as such things go.
>>12241317>ts quite simplified, but its a story about a puppet kingdom warring with its weaker neighbors to obtain a weapon to exterminate all life on the planet and make way for aliens to settle the planet instead. Seems a decent backdrop as such things go.Which is basically just recycling aspects of 2's stories, just with the moon instead of hell. Golbez and Kain were even split motifs from Leonheart, who told almost as much in a much more limited fashion. For people who played it as 2 with its original localization, it was a huge step up from Garland Knocking Everyone Down, so I get it in that regard, it just doesn't stand very well due to how cowardly it is in how it conveys the consequences to the player. Keep everyone dead and give their deaths more meaning and it instantly becomes a much better story.
>>12241346>how cowardly it is in how it conveys the consequences to the player.sure but even in the japanese it wasn't super explicit. lets consider the target audience and time era. It stuck enough.wonder how the Inferno names worked into the script still...
>>122413094's narrative was about second chances, ackshually. guess children's narratives go over your head. lamo
>>12241361FF2 and 3 conveyed the stakes much more drastically well before it, which is something that wouldn't be apparent if you went straight from 1 to 4, which also makes people give it more nostalgia credit. 2 in particular was pretty brutal about it, even faking you out with Leila while the rest are all very much dead. It was a pretty novel idea at the time, having your party members progression mean absolutely nothing due to their death, creating a sense of uneasiness about how the 4th party member feels like a red shirt by the time you get the one you named at the start of the game. THEN you can finally commit to them as a permanent party member, and each of the deaths along the way were sacrifices necessary to keep the story going. Survivors guilt doesn't really sting if they end up surviving too, and no worse for wear, so its suppose to be the exception rather than the rule when used as a narrative device. Besides, we got babby's first rpg like a year later with MQ, and 4 started with you committing fucking genocide, so it comes off more as simplistic than welcoming or accommodating.
>>12241369Second chances as a motif are supposed to be around things like morality and conscience, not "Somehow Palpatine returned" horeseshit. Again, Kain and Rydia, Golbez, even Tellah fit, but the the rest come off as childish in their refusal to accept the weight of their sacrifices. The twins could have even been saved directly by the player after the fact at any time, but they just get all better offscreen by the end. They weren't exactly on the level of Cid and Celes in 6, saving Crono in CT, or any actual narrative agency lessons. They were the literary equivalent of telling a child "oh he's just sleeping" and having them wake up later not dead.
>>12241132>What standard bait?Complaining about characters who come back in FF4 is a major tell that your opinions are not your own. It's rarely something that people with honest opinions about the game dwell on.Typically, if you're young enough to fall for the fakeouts you're young enough to enjoy them. If you're jaded enough to pseud out about "nullifying sacrificial weight" and so on, you're old enough to see this shit coming from a mile away ("never found the body" trope). Hell people spent years believing rumors that you could revive General Leo in FF6 even though he has a grave and everything.>out of absolutely nowhere.>RydiaAfter Cecil survives the Leviathan attack and encounters Yang who also survived, Yang tells you she was 'swallowed' by the monster.You are told that Rydia, the child summoner, was swallowed by a monster that you could summon in Final Fantasy 3 and every classic Final Fantasy since.So you should have seen it coming.Furthermore, the Land of Monsters is in the underworld, which is where you are Rydia finds you again. It all makes more than enough sense for a kids videogame story.
An hour in, and FF4 is clearly an easily digestible story for young kids who've just learned to read, in a 90s video game.Not a bad thing, just that seriously criticizing it is silly when it would need a complete change to be.. something more than a light story that's delivered in a text box or two.And I find it charming actually. A dramatic issue is plainly stated in clumsy dialogue and then resolved immediately. Back to fighting fish monsters lol
>>12242103>Complaining about characters who come back in FF4 is a major tell that your opinions are not your own.Fuck you, it was my exact reaction when playing it as a kid. Shit played out like a saturday morning cartoon where the good guys (almost) always miraculously survive shit. Fuck off with your content creator bullshit.>If you're jaded enough to pseud out about "nullifying sacrificial weight" and so on, you're old enough to see this shit coming from a mile away ("never found the body" trope).And its a really shitty trope when not done well. Again, if it weren't for the twins you would have more of a point, but who hasn't complained about not being able to phoenix down a dying character in an FF story? Meanwhile there is zero excuse for a normal status ailment to be portrayed as the ultimate sacrifice, and it made the others even more of an asspull.>Hell people spent years believing rumors that you could revive General Leo in FF6 even though he has a grave and everything.Because FF6 did shit like that, so it was believable in the pre internet days. Once you found out Duncan was alive and finding him instantly taught you Sabin's ultimate Blitz, the game properly used the trope, and it would have been a great similar moment for Terra especially, as well as Cyan. Shit like that and reviving Aerith were the kind of rumors that can't really exist in a post internet age anymore, but the reason they took hold was because the storytelling encouraged them.>RydiaI called her an exception multiple times. Hence the > half the survivalsbefore it you omitted to be an insincere twat.>>12242151I'm being critical of the story, but there is a lot to enjoy about the game, and its not in my bottom 5. Its just told so poorly that it makes 5's story look like a masterpiece, and even 2 and 3 did a better job years earlier.
>>12242584>makes 5's story look like a masterpiece,Here I disagree. 3 hours in, past mt ordeal and 4 has made a bigger impression. Stronger characters and motivations, with more going on. In ways it's like a direct upgrade over 5.
>>12242709Thats because you're 3 hours in. I'm not saying things like setup and premise aren't great, my issues are mostly with how the story undermines itself multiple times. It wouldn't take much to fix, especially since many of its issues are completely unnecessary. People give 5's story a lot of crap for its tone and camp, but its high points are what redeem it in a lot of cases.
>>12242584>Fuck you, it was my exact reaction when playing it as a kid.I'll never believe you played it as a kid.At least, not as an open-minded kid untainted by others' prejudices and preconceptions.This is just not something kids get so obsessed and angry about.You're also clearly a zoomer if you're using terms like 'g needle' instead of soft. (And the OG Final Fantasy IIus didn't even have softs, there was only Heal)>And its a really shitty trope when not done wellNah, not really. Certainly not the way it's done in FF4.Consider, for example, which version of Final Fantasy IV would be better?>Cid livesYou have two humorous dialog-less scenes where Cid and Edge bust each others' balls upgrading The Falcon airship, culminating with Edge being knocked down by Cid. Later the dwarf nurses comment on Cid's reckless personality.>Cid diesKing Giott inquires about Cid, Cecil nods his head and says "..." (maybe. Giott barely knew Cid before the bomb event)Nameless dwarves upgrade the ship in a generic bland cutscene where nothing else happens.Do you see how insanely far up your own asshole you are? There's nothing better about your version of the story. Your version is just boring.
>>12242825>my issues are mostly with how the story undermines itself multiple times.Pure pseudointellectual babble right there>It wouldn't take much to fix,Guarantee your "fixes" would make the story more boring or tedious and less memorable.
>>12242834>At least, not as an open-minded kid untainted by others' prejudices and preconceptions.What the fuck does this even mean? The internet wasn't even commonly available yet, and if you think Im holding some bitter resentment decades later because little timmy at recess said that cecil is a doodoo head you're fucking retarded.>This is just not something kids get so obsessed and angry about.I wasn't "obsessed and angry" about it, and I'm still not. I'm trying to explain to an open-minded individual like yourself that something you like was delivered in a poor fashion, after multiple replays and a lot more points of comparison since. When I first played the translation of 2 years later I couldn't help but make comparisons the entire time, and it kinda solidified the steps back 4 took.>Consider, for example, which version of Final Fantasy IV would be better?The one where people stay dead, and the party carries the mission on without them. Think about people like Kenshiro and Guts and how they live on with the memories of their fallen allies, grow some fucking balls and appreciate manly idealism instead of needing everything to have an out of place happy ending.>There's nothing better about your version of the story. Your version is just boring.Interesting, I don't remember giving my version. Your shitty hypotheticals don't even have concepts like remembrance or lasting legacy, because you can't comprehend such ideas.
>>12242851>Pure pseudointellectual babble right thereYou can keep calling me sophmoric all you want, it's not my fault you have a surface level understanding of storytelling. Its not even about any kind of deep interpretive shit, its just pointing out very poorly executed story beats.>Guarantee your "fixes" would make the story more boring or tedious and less memorable.Cool.
