Here we post stupid game mechanics.I'll start, natures and EVs introduced in Pokemon gen 3>natures>oh you catched a new pokemon? Well there is a 2/25 is useful, a 21/25 is neutral and a 4/25 chance is fucking shit.>EVs>oh you used your physical attacker to beat that special attacker? Now he is gonna be weaker on the long run, you should have defeated 50 poochyenas before starting your adventure.
>>12248718None of that shit matters in singleplayer.And if you wanted to play multiplayer pokemon you wouldn't be on /vr/.
>geoDUDE>female
>>12248731>it doesn't matterEvs maybe not but natures definitely matter since they are easier to work around
>>12248737Genuinely doesn't. You can easily beat the game without ever looking at natures let alone EV.You should know that if you played these games as a kid.
>>12248738You can best the game quicker and easier with the correct natures though, not to mention post-game battle facilities. There's no reason you want a modest Geodude or an adamant Abra.
>>12248739the point is you don't have to care about it and most people don't. i didn't even know what nature and EV shit was about until black and white came out
>>12248739I've beaten like a dozen pokeman games and never looked at this shit and don't care what natures are. Why don't you just level him up and give him good moves and ignore that autism
>>12248718I still don't even understand what EVs and IVs are.
EVs were a thing since gen1 and they're what makes each mon unique.Natures were a mistake I agree
>>12248740>>12248742Even if you ignore its still there and it's fucking retarded, maybe you had to grind because your pokemon had shitty natures>>12248743>IVs (Individual Values)basically a bonus for each star from 0 to 31>EVS (effort valuesBasically bonus points for each stat based on the Pokémon you defeat, for example if you beat a Rattata you get +2 speed Evs, that sounds great but there is a retarded limit of 510 Evs total, so you can't max out each stat, so for example any speed Evs going to a geodude are wasted Evs.Pokemon gen 1 and 2 did it better because there was no stupid limit to your Evs, you could max out every stat without worrying about defeating the wrong pokemon.
>>12248756>for example if you beat a Rattata you get +2 speed EvsLiterally how are you even supposed to know?
>>12248735
>>12248764The only hint the game gives you is by talking to some npcs that will say something along the lines of, "pokemon trained by humans are stronger than freshly caught wild pokemon" of course that doesn't explains how it works at all but it at least applies to the old system of gen 1 and 2 better because you don't have to worry about training your pokemon wrongly with it.
>>12248764You're not. The only clue is that NPCs tell you that a trained pokémon is stronger than an untrained one of the same level and that each mon is unique. You can also catch a level 30mon and compare its stats to a lvl30 mon of the same type you trained yourself. I didn't know what "EVs" and "IVs" were but I had basically figured their system when I was 10 just by playing the game. I also had the casino figured out just by playing it.
I've played these games hundreds of times and never even once taken this shit into account. It literally does not fucking matter unless you're playing competitive which chances are you aren't. You can't even look at EVs (which have been in the game since gen 1) without an external tool. On that note, why aren't you upset about IVs too? Those are just as much of a dice roll as the nature. None of it really matters in a single player setting, if anything I like it because it means your Geodude is going to be different from any other one you get and that's kind of cool. Play around its strengths and weaknesses and adapt to the game, it's one of the best parts of this franchise. One time I was playing with a Nidoqueen that had probably the worst stats you could possibly roll but instead of giving up on it I kept going and just changed strategies and I beat the game with it. Sorry to hear you have autism.
>>12248774>your pokemon is uniqueExcept the game never reflects that beyond making them either better or worse statwise, contest wise or pokemon palace wise, it's not like you can talk with them they will have different reactions based on their nature like DWM
>>12248776>the game doesn't even reflect it except for the part where it reflects it
>>12248770I always thought that was just a warning that when you fight trainers, their pokemon will be stronger than equivalently-leveled wild ones in the area so you need to be higher leveled to face them.
>>12248780Again, by making your pokemon weaker, a retard that won't eat the pokeblocks it needs or a fumbling idiot that won't attack the opponent?
iv/ev and nature autism only matter for battle frontier
>>12248786>keeps explaining the ways the game reflects the uniqueness of every Pokemon in an attempt to prove to me that it doesn't
>>12248882How will OP ever recover?
>>12248882But strong pokemon ARE my favorite.
Natures are stupid because if you get a starter or a legendary with a bad nature what are you supposed to do, keep restarting until you get the right one?>That doesn't matter because the games are so easyYeah I know they're easy, but they could be more challenging and interesting (especially in the post-game) if these things were customizable and not locked forever (as it was eventually done in the newer games).As for EVs, I don't understand why the games tried so hard to hide them and refused to explain. They could've EASILY explained them at least in the post-game, and allowed you to modify or reset your Pokemon's EVs instead of condemning you to have a team full of shitmons after hours of going through the campaign.Every Pokemon design decision has always boiled down to "we don't want to get too complicated for the kids" even though "the kids" have been asking for this shit since forever.
>>12248739You can beat the games more quickly and easily by trading a Mewtwo over from a completed save.
>>12248718Enemies literally never have EVs except in Battle Tower and the like, they are only a bonus to you.>naturesMixed sets exist, or they did before the physical-special split. The real problem is minmaxed stat spreads with clear right and wrong attack stats. For example Swampert was regarded as a great mon despite having a mixed STAB type. Then physical and special moves appeared for all types, and people naturally gravitated to mons specializing in one attack stat, especially new ones designed with the split in mind.
>>12248718Feebas.>Six water tiles out of about 200 or so on a single route where you MIGHT catch one on a fishing rod>Oh, and those tiles change every day>Oh, and like Magikarp, it's useless until it evolves>Oh, and you have to use Pokeblocks to raise its Beauty stat to maximum to make it evolve>Oh, and it'll only eat 12 blocks, so you need rare berries to make them high-quality enough to fill the stat before it's too fullEven Game Freak knew they fucked up royally on this Pokemon and offered easier alternatives to catch and evolve it in later games.
Nature's are the easiest and most transparent "hidden" stat on a pokemon so I don't mind them. It's what, like 5 minutes of resetting to get something that at least isn't detrimental? EVs and IVs can fuck right off.
I don't know why people in this thread feel the need to argue with OP. He's 100% correct. Randomly having a bunch of your Pokemon be weaker for (from a casual player's perspective) no reason whatsoever is objectively bad game design. The player potentially not noticing and the game being easy enough to finish despite their ignorance doesn't exempt it from being bad.
>>12248718EVs are better than stat exp and pretty fast to max out if you're smart about it. In gen 3 it takes like an hour for one Pokemon, and it only got faster from there. The EV reducing berries are also helpful.Natures are alright. It's flavor text for most people and gives some personality. If you're autistic, the newer games have mints that change the stats for the nature.IVs are gay and why everyone uses PkHex to inject. Bottle caps exist now to make breeding mostly irrelevant.
Inside of Pokemon, there are two wolves:One wolf wants you to have innocent fun catching and raising your own unique set of individual creatures and taking the good with the bad just like you would if you had them as real pets.The other wolf wants you to use those pets as party members in a combat-centric RPG with a competitive multiplayer component.These wolves cannot coexist, they will always maul each other and leave all players dissatisfied.
>>12248718mmos do that too, gotta inflate the grind
>>12249160That's why they tried to hide these mechanics from the player as much as possible. The tiny number of autists will eventually understand what's going on, but Game Freak doesn't want the millions of casuals to be burdened with that knowledge.To bridge them together, you must streamline the process to build competitive Pokemon. No more thousands of hours of breeding to get 31 IV Pokemon.
>>12248718AGREED 100% fuck EVs, fuck IVs, fuck natures. The only people who care about that shit are literal fucking autists.
>>12248732>Geodudette
>>12248732I wonder if Nob complained about this like he did Mr. Mime.
>>12248718There has never been a single pokemon game where you needed to see your stats to win. This is entirely irrelevant to the singleplayer experience and only adds depth to raising pokemon for the postgame facilities like the Frontier or PVP. If you can't understand basic shit like EVs and natures then you're beyond help, because they're REALLY fucking simple. I couldn't imagine being so retarded as to have an issue with modern pokemon stat structure because it provides depth to every catch. You probably had a shit fit when Gen 2 came along and introduced breeding. Why are poketards allergic to depth?
>>12249219ok Mr Autismo.
>>12249160The "pet sim" aspect of Pokemon has never been capitalized on in the main games. There's almost nothing you can do with your Pokemon other than battle.
>>12249232This. At best, you get pseudo-minigames in later (non-retro) generations where you can pet them and give them treats, but it's so shallow and doesn't really feel like you're caring for them at all. If anything, it's only so you can give them extra bonuses in battle like self-healing from status condition and enduring knockout hits.
>>12249191The irony is that casual players don't even really pay close attention to the stats, and because the game does nothing to make you pay attention or set some kind of baseline for expectations around stats, most people won't even notice the stat differences between multiple of the same types of pokemon. The only thing they do to try making pokemon feel unique to casual players is also the only thing casuals don't have an understanding of in the first place. I know that me and my friends never compared pokemon stats and none of us ever noticed that we could raise the same pokemon and get different results. It's all just completely flawed from the bottom up.
>>12249191>To bridge them together, you must streamline the process to build competitive Pokemon.Gamefreak has been doing that for over 10 years now, only it's still obtuse because they're fucking idiots and still won't just show players the actual numbers.Everyone just plays showdown anyways, only idiots and small children still play cartridge formats.
>>12249254Showdown is a thing because they were too slow and fucking idiotic about it. Too little too late.
>>12249260Showdown is a thing because raising a competitively-viable Pokemon is a several-hour investment even in the best of cases. It would have always existed.You can't have a "make new Pokemon with different builds instantly" machine and also pretend that your game is about raising and bonding with your creatures.
>>12248732'dude' can be a unisex term even it usually refers to guys
>>12248718None of this shit will matter to a casual player doing a normal-ass playthrough of a mainline game (and not a kaizo-ass romhack), you know.
>>12249315Yes, everyone knows Pokemon is for little kids, unfortunately this board is for adult men with personality problems to discuss video games, so get with the program
>>12249260this. if mints and bottle caps existed in gen 3 shoddy battle would not be nearly as popular
>>12249326It's also about who you're battling with, Nintendo's online was terrible back then. Gen 3 still used the link cable.
>>12249334Battle frontier was more than enough
>>12249326>still gotta catch>still gotta level>still gotta breed>still gotta do stupid event shitnah I doubt it. People play Showdown because they don't give a single shit about team raising and JUST want to battle, and even now GF won't throw that crowd a bone at all.
None of these matter in vanilla. Rom Hacks on the other are obsessed with nature, ev, iv bullshit.This wouldn't be so ba i f pokemon's speed mechanics weren't such a binary mess.
>>12249353yea but vanilla is boring these days specially when its the same thing over and over again. I honestly miss putting a cartridge into a gameboy and getting lost. Nowadays though its "download to play" and its just not fun.
>>12248737Natures just give you a +10% in one stat and a -10% in another.They do not matter.
>>12249317I don't think playing the game "like an adult man" makes a difference
>>12249428Do you use Iron Sword -1 or Iron Sword +2 when playing other rpgs?
>>12249482Bad comparison when this is about party members.I use who I like and don't care about the meta build, there's plenty of characters with shit stats and bad growths in Fire Emblem, but I'll use them anayways if I like them. If they roll a blank level up then oh well.
>>12249487>not manipulating the game to get good levels up
>>12248882>foid NPCShe'll just side with whoever wins, and that'll be the trainer with strong pokemon
>>12249482>Do I beat the opponent in 1 hit or 1 hit
Nintendo could've kept releasing Stadium-style games with fully customizable rental Pokemon for battling, but it when against their "you need to buy 20 different games to catch 'em all" corporate strategy.
>>12249542>fully customizable rental Pokemon?
>another thinly veiled /vp/ threadIt really is just one person who got banned from the board, isn't it.
>>12249543Like showdown
>>12249565Ok, I read it as they already were, but Stadium 1 and 2 only have set rentals
>>12248739I had absolutely no idea what natures were when I played gen 3
>>12248739Literally every trainer and forced encounter is severely under leveled in every pokemon game. Natures only matter in end game and by then you have breeding unlocked and can spend your time autisticly catching and breeding for good pokemon. I don’t play the single player games but I did do a lot of breeding in pokemmo. Either play pokemmo or stick to simulators for pvp.
>>12248739Adamant Abra with Synchronize is extremely valuable.
>>12249219This, you really don't need to minmax in Baby's First JRPG.
>>12249353>Open up rom hack, there are 4 difficulty settings.>Choose the second easiest, as they claim the easiest option is comparable to mainline and that would be too boring.>By level 40 everyone trainer has OU/UU mixed teams with perfect IV/EV/nature/items/moves and they read your moves and late game they just have teams of legendaries.Like come on. That's just not fun in the first place
>>12250319Is this Radical Red? If so, the battles are hard but it gives you a shitton of tools to minmax your Pokemon too. It's more fair than something like Emerald Kaizo.>read your movesThe AI is better but this is always cope for making bad decisions.Most Pokefags have this presumption that Pokemon is an easy baby game and aren't used to losing. Then they get humbled by Falkner in RR and ragequit and go back to HGSS.
>>12250319>>12250424>read your movesIf you use savestates you would know this is bullshit, the ai is just smart as fuck and takes a lot of variables into account but pros like speedrunners can predict it accurately.
>>12249551Now that you mention it, I think one of the most active startroons did get banned
>>12250304You’re right but natures do matter in end game stuff like the towers where your levels are all scaled to 50. 10% extra on your attacking stat could be the difference between getting an important ko or getting screwed over. Though I never saw the appeal of pve content in pokemon. Back when I played I just made teams on pokesav for WiFi battles and tournaments.
>>12250808You wouldn't be using your ingame party for battle facilities so the point is moot.
>>12248739The post game battle facilities are cheats against (You) anyway. Even a Pkhex built team gets BTFO by the AI gods
>>12250836There is no evidence of the AI cheating. What probably happened is you got unlucky and played like shit. All the Pokemon in the facilities use preset builds, so you have more control than you think.
>>12250319The worst case of this bullshit is in the 3ds hacks.Oh, is that a random enemy route trainer that has a porygon with obscenely high defense at lvl 20? Ups, maybe i made a mistake,hihihihihi.Fuck these faggots.
>>12250934massive skill issue
>>12248718How are you complaining about EVs and not IVs? That shit is what makes people inject.
>>12250961Who says i didn't beat his ass? It is just annoying and makes shit pokemon even more shit. And that is with the author's balance changed edition.
>>12250972pokefags don't actualy want difficulty in their gamesanything harder than like platinum or usum and you faggots go OMG YOU CHEATED THIS IS BULLSHIT
>>12250980>pokefags don't actualy want difficulty in their gamesAh yes, that is why the most popular type of romhacks are the difficulty bumps like radical reddit?>anything harder than like platinum or usum and you faggots go OMG YOU CHEATED THIS IS BULLSHITBeing outsped by almost every enemy past midgame because perfect ev/iv/nature is pure tedium because you have to put in the tedious grind to raise your ev/iv. It is annoying. Pokemon battle system is just poorly thought out for this type of bullshit. Like any hard counter system.
>>12250986>most popular>difficulty bumps like radical redditmaybe for youtubersdrayano is by and far the most popular creator and i still hear shit like WHY DOES BROCK HAVE 6 POKEMON>being outsped>i only know how to overlevel and one shot everythingi don't blame you, the original games don't incentivize you to play differently. maybe it's time to get a bit more creative.
>>12250994>maybe for youtubersCheck any non youtube list and difficulty hacks dominate.>drayano is by and far the most popular creator and i still hear shit like WHY DOES BROCK HAVE 6 POKEMONMaybe you should stop complaining about brock and 6 pokemon?>i only know how to overlevel and one shot everythingYou see, this just tells me you never played pokemon. Pokemon is a hard counter game, there ain't no tanking stuff for 5+ turns.Enemy goes first and gets a lucky crit , your pokemon will simply die the next turn regardless of what you do unless you switch him out or use items.Binary speed stuff means that if a enemy is +1 over you in speed he will always go first.And with maxed out ev/iv there ain't no non effective moves anymore.Throwing vague shit as "be creative", just shows you never played the games or just played vanilla only.
>>12250980US/UM was difficult?
>>12248718They are, abilities are also shit.
>>12250994>WHY DOES BROCK HAVE 6 POKEMONIf you can't handle 6 rock types then you're just bad.
>>12251008The statement was vague because there's a shitton of strategies other than be faster and play rock paper scissors. You can abuse how the opponent rarely switches out and set up on it in many ways. You can switch to a different Pokemon instead of failing to outspeed and dying. You can PP stall by swapping Pokemon. You can abuse how the opponent doesn't know how to handle Substitute or Dry Skin and fully set up. Even the Stadium games force you to use different strategies like Destiny Bond and Explosion with the rentals.Are you sure you don't know what you're talking about?
>>12251008>>12251350>he thinks i'm complaining about brockreading comprehension
>>12251043Abilities are one of the best new inclusions to pokemon battling. It makes every pokemon more unique and interesting
>>12248718How can you not mention IVs? That mechanic is absolute trash. People have wasted countless hours breeding for 31 IVs.
>>12252357You have never played a romhack.Vanilla:Usually go first because of shit enemy stats.Do Whatever you need for setup.Barely take damage because of shit enemy stats.Hacks with maxed out ev/iv and best nature:Enemy goes first because of ev/iv.Takes more than half of your hp because of stats.Try to do your thing. Your best option is sleep or changing how speed functions.Lucky:The enemy sleeps and you can do your setups.Unlucky:Enemy doesn't sleep and you pokemon is knocked out.Destiny bond/explosion is useless since you get outsped. You need to have done something about speed since explosion/destiny bond pokemon aren't the quickest stat wise.As for dry skin and substitute. Dry skin is practically useless and substitute is slowly dying. PP stalling rarely works unless you' have done several setups before.
>>12252568Now I know you're talking out of your ass. What hacks have regular trainers with maxed EVs and IVs? Many of the most difficult hacks don't even bother with EVs. Have you ever switched out or stalled anything in your life? Not everything is about speed, and yes you can tank hits and set up with or without held items like berries and Leftovers.>Substitute and Dry SkinIf you ever tried the strategies before, the AI has no idea what they're doing. They will spam the same moves and not break your sub or keep healing you. Sit the fuck down.
>>12252568>Destiny bond/explosion is useless since you get outspedif you're leveling your pokemon you're not getting one shot regardless of ev/iv shit. learn the type chart or stop talking shit faggot.
>>12252589They are such a common strategy in Stadium with rentals and the opponent Pokemon in that game are much better than your rentals. I think Radical Reddit just filtered him hard and he's not smart enough to find a strategy beyond sending out the counter on switch mode and rock paper scissors.
>>12252596pretty sure that game warns you it's bullshit if you pick hardcore mode or whateverbut it's cool, difficult pokemon is not everyone's cup of tea.
Counter and Mirror Coat are useless since you get outsped.
>>12252568https://youtube.com/watch?v=1AYyYzzS98whope you learn something nigga
>>12249530but she will cheat on him with the loser.
>>12252661If he's hot(t)
>>12252585>Now I know you're talking out of your ass. What hacks have regular trainers with maxed EVs and IVs?Most Of them? Even drayano stuff has this.>Many of the most difficult hacks don't even bother with EVsWhat in the god damn?>If you ever tried the strategies before, the AI has no idea what they're doing. Here Is a technique that is killing me.It will magically pp stall the enemy somehow even though it can be used at best 4 times if lucky?How is this beating anything?>if you're leveling your pokemon you're not getting one shotNever played rom hacks i see. A lvl 20 pokemon with maxed ev/iv will take more then half health from a rock type using a normal ( and could even kill it if lucky) if said rock type has normal ev/iv stats.>if you're leveling your pokemon you're not getting one shotLevelling doesn't magically fix up ev/iv problems. If you are grinding for speed then yes, but normally playing the game, you will get outsped in rom hacks the majority of time.>hope you learn something niggaYou posted a vanilla game video? We are talking about romhacks.In fact, people, learn to read. ROMHACKS!!! Don't care your shitty strategy worked on vanilla, it is not the same thing.
>>12252568>You have never played a romhack.who gives a shit about unofficial tryhard simulators?play a real game nigga god damn
>>12252827Conversation is about romhacks.WHO CARES ABOUT ROMHACKS!!!!!Sigh.
>>12252864>WHO CARES ABOUT ROMHACKSexactly
>>12252739>Even drayano stuff has this.you mean redux? which someone else did and had a mode for no EVs?ignored the rest, play the games before talking shit next time
>>12252739>intentionally being retarded to miss the pointhttps://youtube.com/watch?v=rFG-2Wq1FPIhope you learn something nigga
>>12252739>Even drayano stuff has thisName the games. I've played through his studf numerous times and that's not true. He has said he doesn't know how to add EVs to the trainers. Only IVs are maxed out which is fine.>What in the god damn?Emerald Kaizo. Garbage Green. Run & Bun. Many customized romhacks (like for Drayano) are made to remove EVs for YOURSELF. Radical Reddit is the exception, not the norm, and it lets you max EVs and IVs too.>How is this beating anything?It's literally using strategy to beat the game mechanics. Next you'll tell me switching out is cheating because it's abusing the AI.Substitute can be used in many romhack scenarios, including most gym battles. If the opponent is using status moves or debuffs then they CANNOT one shot you. Dry Skin is valuable to know for water gyms. They are most notably used in Renegade Platinum with Gardenia, the added early Aaron fight, and Wake.Then you replied to someone else:>A lvl 20 pokemon with maxed ev/iv will take more then half health from a rock typeComplete nonsense. Post an example and a calc with one of your Pokemon. All you've been doing is posting vague claims about some romhack with nothing to back them up.>Levelling doesn't magically fix up ev/iv problemsIt does. It literally gives you extra stats to make up for imperfect IVs. And again, these hacks generally don't have EVs.>You posted a vanilla game video?The video which had level 5s against Red's level 70-80s with PP stalling, Curse, Baton Pass setup, and Spite anti-stall? I think they probaly had issues with speed and stats too, but that's just me. Maybe you should've paid attention and applied it to RR.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ASXs-phCsqgoh my god he got outsped... and won??fyi the battle frontier in emerald kaizo has evs and ivs and you don't
>>12248739Smash every electronic you own with a hammer RIGHT NOW and do not buy any more
>rom hacks badRadical Red has an option to kill EVs and IVs which is based as fuck, you can also change natures for freePolished Crystal also has an option to kill IVs and Evs and no natures. They know people hate that shit
>>12253001Redux opponents have no EVs on any mode
>>12248718Enemies that respawn when they scroll off screen.
>>12253136Congratulations for being the first anon actually providing what OP actually asked for.
>>12248776stop arguing with children and/or autists please. You encourage them to post and shit up the board.
>>12253136>entire thread is offtopic and stays up>that one anon banned by mods for calling OP a faggrim
>>12253141OP wanted to seethe about Pokemon.
>>12253168it's the board's one janny trying to ruin the board
>touch pot in link's awakening>WHOOPS THIS LOOKS HEAVY!the biggest blemish on an otherwise great game.
>>12253368>play OG version>press B to skip the dialogueDXfags on suicide watch.
>>12248718Natures were an oddly obscure thing when they were introduced in Gen 3, I recall there's an NPC that mentions "Pokémon with different natures seem to grow faster or slower in different ways", or something, but that's the extent of their explanation.Behind the EVs and IVs systems further obscuring how a Pokémon's final stats are determined, it's difficult for any casual player to grasp how any of these things work.It wasn't until Heart Gold / Soul Silver that Game Freak finally put something in that indicates that natures have a positive and negative effect on two stats, or some have no effect.That, and natures are not exclusively just for stats, they determine which flavors a Pokémon enjoys or hates, and therefore which berries or Poké Blocks they should eat and ultimately their potential in Contests.
>>12250259>Literally every trainer and forced encounter is severely under leveled in every pokemon game.I grind for hours and hours in old gens and still end up hopelessly underleveled. Exp share saved the series from being an overly grindy slogfest witth 6 mons.
>boss is "unbeatable">beat it anyway>uh well um... you didn't do it right so it doesn't count!
