So if the Playstation was never made do you think the Saturn would have taken its place and obliterated the competition due to being the closest thing to the PSX?Would pic related be possible? Surely the Saturn can do FMVs unlike the n64 but I can't see more 3d oriented ps1 games being successfully made for the Saturn instead of being sent to the n64, I think symphony of the night being ported to Saturn and Megaman Legends to n64 is a good comparison of what I mean
Would THING save the Saturn?????
>>12266116I don't think the saturn could do more then 100 polygons on screen,so they would have to either cut back on the 3D battles by A LOT, or make it a 2D game
I don't think the Saturn could do the seameless transition from CGI to gameplay
Sony cut some deals with they could do via royalties and similar. So no, Sega wouldn't have been able to do that and get as many PS consoles into homes in random countries that helped push third party development as early at 96 (more consoles sold more want to develop.)
>>12266126>snoy never enters the console market>final fantasy vii gets released for the saturn>it looks like thisNow that would have been the good timeline
>>12266135Honestly better than the gross dumbell arms 3d chibi abominations
>>12266135>>12266116it would've ended up on the n64 hate to break it to ya.
>>12266116No. The first plan was to do it on n64.You can see it in this demo using characters form 6 when the n64 was still the ultra 64https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPO7c_XmesU
>>12266143>dat assDamn we were robbed
>>12266143It wasn't made for the 64Just a tech demo to show what 3D combat can look like
>>12266142um no.CGI videos were a must have.
>>122661563d gameplay was the must have, Saturn is what you get with cgi video but no actual 3ds and it failed
>>12266156says who? They already developed a tech demo for the n64 at the time. They would've compromised for 3d graphics vs segas console that was definitely not going to sell as well.
>>12266150Back when straight men worked at Square
Saturn would still get no attention with Nights as a launch title even without Sony to fuck them up more, Mario 64 would make it clear which is the superior 3d system.
>>12266116the saturn will never and would have never been worth a shit. Sega fags need to give it up.
>>12266116>So if the Playstation was never made do you think the Saturn would have taken its place and obliterated the competition due to being the closest thing to the PSX?No.>Would pic related be possible?No.I know you won’t believe it, and it’s probably better if you don’t, but I’m a time traveler.In no timeline was the Saturn a success.In a timeline where SEGA survived as a console maker was when they never developed the Saturn, sticking with the Sega CD and 32X until ’98, then dropping the Dreamcast (that is backward compatible with the Sega CD). By 2000, Microsoft acquired SEGA and then Rare, this timeline Original Xbox didn't happened. Because of this, Free Radical never existed; the Stamper brothers stayed with Rare because they saw that Microsoft let SEGA "independent" and having voice, keeping morale high and preserving the team behind GoldenEye and Perfect Dark. The NDS flopped because the PSP had a resistive touch screen, and the Nintendo Wii never existed: it was released as a GameCube peripheral in 2002, which was a massive failure. Sony ended up acquiring Nintendo by 2004, and the PS3 launched with Twilight Princess. The PS3 relied entirely on the IBM Cell processor because Kutaragi believed the Cell was powerful enough, and also because Nvidia nearly went bankrupt after SEGA decided not to support their NV1 chip. SEGA ended up acquiring Nvidia, and the Dreamcast used a custom Riva TNT GPU instead of a PowerVR. The sixth generation was a tie between the PS2 and Xbox, similar to how the PS3 and Xbox 360 competed in this timeline. In the seventh generation, Microsoft launched Kinect as a separate console, taking the place of the Wii in this version of events, while the Xbox 360 (it name is SEGA 1080; it ran games in native 1080p) had no Kinect. The PS3 failed due to being expensive and less powerful than the SEGA 1080. Pokémon and Monster Hunter saved PlayStation as a brand.
>>12266184>it name is SEGA 1080samir get off the internet and keep your cringe fanfiction to yourself
>>12266143Definitely develop for it
>>12266184>In no timeline was the Saturn a success.trvke
>>12266116In a world where the PlayStation never existed, the Sega Saturn would likely have become the dominant platform for third-party developers, but it wouldn't have necessarily obliterated the competition. The Saturn was the only other major player offering the CD-ROM storage necessary for the cinematic revolution of the mid-nineties. However, its architecture was notoriously difficult to program for compared to the PlayStation. Without Sony's user-friendly environment, the industry might have seen a slower transition into 3D as programmers struggled to master the Saturn's dual-CPU setup.Regarding Final Fantasy VII, the game could have existed on the Saturn, though it would have been a technical compromise. The Saturn's CD format was essential for the game’s FMV data and high-quality music, which the Nintendo 64 could not accommodate on cartridges. However, the Saturn lacked the PlayStation's specialized hardware for 3D transparency and lighting. This means the iconic magic effects and character models would have looked dithered or blocky. Square likely would have stayed with Sega because of the storage capacity, but the game wouldn't have reached the same level of visual polish that helped it define a generation.The divide you noted between Symphony of the Night and Mega Man Legends illustrates the era's technical split. The Saturn was a 2D powerhouse, making it the natural home for sprite-based masterpieces. The Nintendo 64 was superior at rendering smooth 3D environments, but its lack of storage meant "cinematic" 3D games would have lost their voice acting and video cutscenes. In this timeline, the Saturn would have been the home of pre-rendered experiences like Resident Evil, while the N64 would have remained the king of platformers, leading to a much more divided gaming market.
>>12266185Sounds pretty cringe, but not as bad as the Xbox 360 or Xbox One.
>>12266116
Saturn vs N64 would have been very tight fight but I do believe the Saturn would have won mostly by the merit of massive gains in Japan.Saturn is out on the Japanese market as early as November 1994 and faces the likes of 3DO and PC-FXSaturn vs N64 in EU. Sega keeps the EU market Saturn vs N64 in NA Close call but Nintendo winsSaturn vs N64 in Japan Saturn wins
>>12266203chaptgpt ass post
>>12266116Decompile the game and port it.
>No Sony means the Panasonic M2 hits the market in 1997 backed by developers such as Konami>Makes the N64 look like a dated piece of shit just a few months after it hit the market
>>12266143how many time to we have to tell you this isn't running on the n64, this is a proof of concept
>>12266258cope
>>12266225This, come back when you do a decomp and port it>B-but, gib source code!If autistic children can decomp gamecube games now, you can decomp some PS1 game
>>12266254Battle Tryst on the Konami M2 arcade board.https://youtu.be/vISs4UlgHDU?si=iZyRzxkV6mpNVmYc
>>12266203>The Saturn was a 2D powerhouseStop with that meme
>>12266280left looks better
>>12266280and which one had the better 2d fighter ports?
>>12266289Sounds more like they half assed the ps1 ports
>>12266116>So if the Playstation was never made do you think the Saturn would have taken its place and obliterated the competition due to being the closest thing to the PSX?Yes. But that's only assuming the only other major 3D console was the N64.
>>12266284You need a new pair of glass
>>12266280X4 isn't a 2D game, everything is actually rendered in polygons with textures on top. Even the characters. That's why it plays so differently from true 2D X games on the SNES.
>>12266289They're almost the same ,the only significant difference is with the ram cart not the base Saturn
>>12266302>everything is actually rendered in polygons with textures on topLike the Saturn so...
>>12266254>>12266264Deep cut. i never knew about this...we were robbed. Fuck Nintendo.
Plausible.
>>12266143>first plan was to do it on the N64Maybe if instead of a dozen hour RPG they turn it into a collectathon
>>12266116>ok but if the biggest competition just didn't exist, COULD THIS HAVE SAVED THE SATURNThese hypotheticals are getting more retarded every day
>>12266498you don't find these hypotheticals interesting to think about?
>>12266116If Playstation never existed you have N64 vs Saturn. Playstation had a price advantage that Saturn did not have.
>>122665273DO vs Saturn vs N64*
>>122665363DO is gone by 1997 and replaced by Panasonic M2
>>12266538Still competes with the N64 and Saturn
>>12266539You might as well throw in PC-FX and Bandai Pippin then
>>12266541Those were far, far less competitive than even the 3DO
>>12266280What’s this?
>>12266280dithered transparencies = soul
>>12266309No.
>>12266143>>12266152I'm pretty sure that Square said in an interview, that they also had a rudimentary tech demo with Cloud, Red XIII, and another character that was running on N64 as well. We just never saw it, and that's as far as it went.
>>12266125I wish time travel would be invented soon, so people can just go back in time and find out instead of making these topics over and over. And yes I think the best use of time travel would be to see ways to save sega.
>>12266209best timeline
>>12266216Are you proud of yourself for having basic pattern recognition?
>>12266116>Would pic related be possible? Surely the Saturn can do FMVs unlike the n64 but I can't see more 3d oriented ps1 games being successfully made for the Saturn instead of being sent to the n64, I think symphony of the night being ported to Saturn and Megaman Legends to n64 is a good comparison of what I meanTo a degree yes. I would imagine that Square still would have used pre rendered BG's and polygon models. It's really hard to say if they could have pulled off transparencies in the way they wanted too, and arguably the FMV would have generally looked a lot worse, as with most cases on the Sega Saturn, the Cinepak codec always looked like shit in comparison to the Playstations MPEG format. In some ways the 3DO could have put out better FMV than the Saturn. That's assuming that Square had any interest in working with Sega at all. Or would they have just settled with the N64's DD Drive? Square was always onboard with the Sony Playstation. Even back when it was a CD add-on for the SNES, Square was the first tio sign up to the hardware, because they really wanted to move away from that cartridge format. They were not happy with the early N64 dev kits. People at Square were pretty unhappy over Secret of Mana being cut down to an SNES cart instead of being on a CD. O think they were getting sick of Nintendo's shit, and were happy to jump over to team Sony.
>>12266164>says who?square
>>12266264https://youtu.be/vISs4UlgHDU?t=49"Can you touch me?" Man, what a win quote...
>>12266203nobody cared anymore about 2D games in the 90s
>>12267151>nobody cared anymore about 2D games in the 90sI would say that this was mostly true by 1995. 2D games still sold well on the 16-bit systems, but once the 32bit and 64bit machines were being announced and rolled out to the public, the general public's expectations changed to 3D styled games, and 2D was generally seen as 'last gen'.
Reminder that the Saturn didn't need "saving". Video games needed saving, and the Saturn tried, but people wouldn't listen, and they still don't which is why now we have all those deluded "gamers" who probably love modern gaming hope the Saturn was more like modern gaming.With that said if the PSX didn't exist, the Saturn would probably have had more support, but most would have sticked to Nintendo.
>>12267163there's a serious chance that, if the playstation did not exist, games like ff7 might have come out on the "sony 3do" instead.now that would have been a weird timeline
>>12267131>as with most cases on the Sega Saturn, the Cinepak codec always looked like shit in comparison to the Playstations MPEG format. In some ways the 3DO could have put out better FMV than the SaturnThis was a common occurrence with Saturn games, where the FMV cutscenes generally looked worse than their Playstation counterparts. It mostly would come down to the default Sega Saturn cinepack codecs that made video look chunky and have all sorts of weird artifacts not found in the Playstation console. The Playstation has a dedicated video decoder chip. The Saturn has to decode FMV through the dual Hitachi SH2's. Even the 3DO kinda had better FMV capabilities with its own built-in hardware decoder. There was an MPEG Cd-Video card for the Saturn that would plug into the back of the machine and enhance some of the FMV in games. But that card was only released in Japan... and maybe Europe? Very rarely did the FMV quality ever look good on the Saturn. https://youtu.be/_MAQ2FMgue0?t=168
the hard pill to swallow is that you can't save the saturn.if you want to save sega you must DESTROY the saturn.give the ps1 schematics to sega a few years earlier and tell them to release it before sony doesand even THAT might not be enough. sega had burned a lot of trust with players, developers and game retailers at that point, so it's going to be an uphill battle regardless
>>12266152Square and Nintendo had a close relationship and at that point FF7 was presumed to be going on the N64.
>>12266116If FFVII were made for the Saturn Squaresoft would realize very quickly they fucked up after reviewing the sales numbers and port the game to PSX within a year. That's exactly what happened to Grandia.
>>12266203If the PlayStation never existed, the 3DO M2 would have likely released and fulfilled the same role it had.
>>12266125John Carpenter could've saved the Saturn
>>12266547Baked in, that's why it doesn't change Mega Man's color.
>>12266116>First condition to save the SaturnNo 32X>Second condtionNo Playstation>Third conditionNo N64>Fourth ConditionBackwards compatible with GenesisAt this point the Saturn, Virtual Boy, Jaguar and 3DO have a fierce competition. Most people give up on gaming altogether. Eventually, the Saturn comes in second to the Game Boy, in Japan, in 1996 only.I did it guys! I saved the Saturn.
>>12267305square genuinely tried, nintendo just didn't care.
>>12267618>So our main reason for choosing the PlayStation was really just because it was the only console which would allow us to use CD-ROM mediaPoor little Saturn existence being completely ignored
>>12266116No shit sherlock. N64 was never gonna prevail versus a CD rom based console. Jewtendo's greed got the best of them.
>>12266143That looks worse than Wild Arms. Squaresoft would've died before it ever merged with Enix if it had been stuck on the N64.
>>12266158There are metric fuck tons of 3D games on Saturn that look better than N64. It could be done.
>>12266203>2D powerhouse >no 2D games of note beyond shitty arcade ports nobody cared abouttop-fucking-kek m8
>>12267739the SGI onyx workstation that demo was created with was exponentially more powerful than the n64 and ps1 combined.
>>12267618>So our main reason for choosing the PlayStation was really just because it was the only console which would allow us to use CD-ROM mediaoof that's really unintentionally harsh but that kind of ends the thread. The answer is the saturn wasn't even on their radar and they'd have just made a different kind of FF7 for the n64.
>>12266190>two replieslurk moar
>>12266135Name any final fantasy game on a Sega console. Hell I'll do you one even easier. Name any Squaresoft game on any Sega platform.
>>12267787>oof that's really unintentionally harsh but that kind of ends the thread. The answer is the saturn wasn't even on their radar and they'd have just made a different kind of FF7 for the n64.Pretty sure that one of the executive producers at Square-Soft made a comment that they did have manuals and documentation for the Sega Saturn and evaluated that the dual CPU configuration was just too convoluted for them to work with. The Playstation had much more streamlined hardware that was easier for them to leverage.
>>12268196hence they would've just made it for n64
>>12268256N64 is harder to program for than Saturn
>>12268256only if it had a cd drive.if the ps1 did not exist and the saturn did not exist and the 3do did not exist, i can genuinely see square becoming a PC only developer for a while.cartridges just weren't going to cut it. they weren't big enough, the tech just wasn't there yet
>>12268281They would just adapt their ambition to the N64Square hasn't left the Super Famicom for the PC engine CD
>>12268292square at the time considered CD technology to be non-negotiable
>>12268334Then why they didn't join NEC with the PC engine CD instead of the cartridge super Famicom ?
>>12268351why do you keep bringing up things that happened years earlier? weren't we talking of ff7 right now?when they developed ff6 they considered sprites to be acceptablefor 7 they wanted long ass cinematic cutscenes, proper orchestral music and 3D characters in battlethey never considered a cartridge system to be viable for what they wanted to develop
>>12268363to make things clearer, they DID originally consider the ultra64 as their platform of choice, because after working with the sgi onyx workstation they thought it was going to be a CD based system, but when the console was actually properly revealed, it was significantly weaker than what they were led to believe, and with teeny tiny cartridges, making their ambitious 3D world cinematic jrpg plans impossiblesquare was very clear with nintendo that they needed a CD based system to work with
>>12266116>Honey, are you finished imagining scenarios about Sega's business decisions? I fixed up some dinosaur shaped nuggets for you, even got the brand that doesn't make your tummy hurt
>>12268363>proper orchestral musicThat's a funny way of saying 'midi'.
>>12268395>3D worldJpegs aren't 3D.
>>12266116Why do we want to save the Saturn anyway? The current arrangement where I can play Sega games on PC due to them not being stuck in a proprietary console like Nintendo's is the best possible timeline to me.
>>12268590This. Sega's best as a third party software only company, not to mention their other ventures like in anime merch. This is the correct timeline.
>>12268594Modern SEGA is shit. SEGA doesn't even develop games anymore except for Yakuza and Sanic shovelware.
Ultimately the Saturn never got to show its full potential because most third parties focused on Playstation. Saturn development would have been a lot more advanced if game devs had gotten more familiar with its architecture.
So THIS is bullshit?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLr7qQqsjDE
>>12269043yes
>>12268279>N64 is harder to program for than SaturnSays who?
>>12269995Maegawa from Treasure https://www.ign.com/articles/1997/04/15/treasure-talks-yuke-yuke>N64.com: Is the N64 an easy platform to develop on?>Maegawa: It is pretty difficult. Compared to the Saturn I think it's more difficult.
>>12270019treasure is garbage
>>12270021I don't think any other developer know better the hardware of Saturn and N64 than TreasureRadiant silvergun and Sin and punishment are some of the best looking games from these consoles
>>12270024i said what i said because i meant it
>>12266116No PSX mean Saturn is the normie console, but that doesn't do away the eventual retardation that was coming.It'll be a real JRPG machine at least if things manage out
>>12267170Nah, it'd be on the Phillips SNES CD-i
>>12267757Super Tempo mogs most PS1 2D exclusives
>Auster admitting Xtreme was hot trash all alongLol
>>12267495It's actually is a real transparent layer>>12266547This is possible because it's a different VDP2 layer so making it transparent was easy with now downsides and basically freeTechnically the background spotlights drawn by VDP1 could've had their pixels flagged to be made transparent by VDP2 since they're behind every other VDP1 object so I dunno why they didn't do that (only downside is the light wouldn't be brighter where the spotlights cross)Though the foreground spotlight (pic related) needs the checkerboard fake transparency or else it would eat every VDP1 object drawn behind it (sprites)
>>12270019>>Maegawa: It is pretty difficult. Compared to the Saturn I think it's more difficult.Given the context is Yuke Yuke, I'm guessing the reasoning is that 2D on the N64 is less straightforward. No 2D rectangle blits and a VDP2 to handle the fullscreen backgrounds. Have to orthographic project billboards and tesselate.
>>12266116The playstation had such a huge warping effect on the industry that it's impossible to guess. The saturn might've been weaker, the n64 might've switched to cds, who fucking knows.
>>12266116>do you think the Saturn would have taken its place and obliterated the competition due to being the closest thing to the PSX?Sega America execs were incompetent and Sega Japan execs were inflexible and not committed to European and American markets, so no.Sony had all the right people in place to do its thing because it already had bustling media and electronics businesses. Early Sega America execs were random salesmen and C-Suite guys and viewed themselves as toy sellers and had no faith in their product because they had no expertise in media and no clue how the underlying technologies worked. They constantly shot themselves in the foot and looked to Japan to back them up or bail them out, which Japan rarely did. When they saw a PS1 game that looked better than what was currently available on Saturn they reasoned the Saturn was just inferior, not that it's potential hadn't been pushed fully - because they were non-tech savvy normies. This happened like 4 times.Nintendo and Sony both had 1 or 2 execs with Comp Sci or media production degrees in Japan and stateside.I can't imagine constantly cash strapped Squaresoft betting on Sega if they had Nintendo as an option - even with the goofy n64 platform.
