Anyone else fell for the don't use save states meme?I kept hearing how not using save states would make you enjoy the game more so I tried it with Castlevania but no, just felt like I was wasting my time and honestly enjoyed the game way more when I started using save states, gave me more freedom to experiment with the game and try different things.For context I have always used save states in any game that's emulated and its one of the big reasons I prefer to play retro games over modern console games where I can't use save states, though lots of retro and modern pc games give you quick saves that are basically just save states, come to think of I used quick saves a lot way before even using emulators and save states, it just feels good to do things as perfect as possible and pretty stupid to just put yourself in a disadvantage for no reason.
>>12280435Depends on the game. But savescumming for a perfect run gets boring usually.
>>12280435I don't use save states, waste of time to quicksave every timeI just use rewind
>>12280435>I kept hearing how not using save states would make you enjoy the game moreThat sounds stupid. i only don't use it when i actually want to feel like i beat the game
>>12280435Video games are a waste of time one way or the other. If save states make it more enjoyable to you that's fine but some people enjoy a proper challenge
>>12280435If you just wanna blow through a game quickly then sure. Most NES era games are rather short though and most of their replay value comes from having to practice sections repeatedly in order to get good enough to beat them. Beating a game legit is a much more satisfying feeling when you have to put in the effort. .
>>12280435man, you're sad.
>>12280435>>12280448Save states and rewind are great for a practice run, when your seeing the game and figuring it out.Then you can try doing a real run to beat it. Under no circumstance have you beaten a game while using save states and rewind during the run itself.
>>12280435It's simple, the reason people hate save state faggots is because 20 years ago they use to flood boards forums with low effort spam saying >you can't beat >ninja gaiden >battletoads>Silver surfer>it's easyFor people who grew up with the difficult games they would dig into why these new players thought notoriously difficult games were easy, and inevitably it would come out they were savescumming. So they got a deserved reputation as faggots because only a faggot would save scum and go on to pretend that the games were easy.
>>12280487>Silver SurferThat's a shitty game that sucks ass though.
>>12280495No shit, but if it was one of the 3 NES games you had you still played the shit out of it
>>12280487How is that cheating. You just travel in time to the moment you would naturally reach the same point of the game if you replayed it from the start
>>12280498This, you just skip doing the same shit again?
>>12280487Were they beating the games with savestates, or were they using savestates to practise without artificial delays?
I have used savestates for parts that were pure trial and error bullshit, at no points you need them to beat castlevania though
>>12280487Those people were just trolling anon, you listened to them at your own peril.
>>12280518Nta but that sort of forum post happened a thousand times in dubya admin>man ninja gaiden is fucking hard>I beat it>really? Did you use save states>Yeah
>>12280498Because that's not the design of the game faggot. In ninja gaiden you go back to the start of the screen, sometimes the start of the stage or the level. Skipping the slog defeats the difficult part of the game
>>12280435State saves made Skyrim way more enjoyable for me, allowed to experiment all sorts of things. But that was intentional by the developers unlike the old games, so yes it ruins it, atleast finish it yourself first for once then use save states
>>12280541But you will still eventually reach the same point of your previous failure no matter where you restart, even if it's the start of the game.You still need to beat the place you failed at by yourself, save states or not.
The problem with modern gamers playing retro games is how egotistical personality interacts with failure. Removing failure also removes the spontaneity that caused your failure. Save states remove that sense of spontaneous discovery since everything is linearly controlled. That is until some guy doesn't do that and discovers new techniques through the willingness to fail.
>>12280548There's a big difference between getting to a critical point of the game with full health or full power ups, vs getting to that point with the bare minimum because you lost all of it on the way
>>12280548>But you will still eventually reach the same point of your previous failure no matter where you restartYou might, you might not, it's not guaranteed. That's the point.>You still need to beat the place you failed at by yourself, save states or notYeah but playing the game as designed means that you might have a different subweapon, less or more magic for the sub weapon, less or more health
>>12280558You can explore better with save states though? Even go to areas you are not supposed to go yet
>>12280569No one sane says you can't use them, just don't comeback to the thread and say >I 1cc'd final fight and it was easy what's the big deal
>>12280435>>12280452What you really want to do is avoid the mindset of "I beat the challenge why should I have to do it again" and exceptionally retarded: "old games were designed to waste your time.It's the difference between viewing a game as something fun to play, vs a game as sequence of interactive content to consume.
>>12280575Yup, the problem with save states is it avoids the challenge by skirting the consequence of your play.
>>12280508What do you think? Be honest.
>>12280578Yeah, there's two key things I think: stakes and mastery.Stakes requires some kind of penalty, while it feels very good to demonstrate and reinforce mastery, even multiple times and even just to yourself (for fun).
>>12280541The game was designed for kids with near unlimited free time and a small handful of games to play in it, if you aren't the audience it was designed for there's no need to play it as designed.
>>12280621Sure, just don't brag that you beat the game or are any good at it.
>>12280435Incoming 400 post thread filled to the brim with middle-aged manchildren gnashing their teeth telling you you didn't beat the game, you just want to complete as many games as possible to show off to...someone, and other equally delusional and deranged copes because others don't play a 30 year old video game the exact same way they did when they were 8.Good on ya OP for playing the games in a way that makes them fun. That's what it's all about.
for short level based games like castlevania I generally don't find the punishment of failure harsh enough to bother with savescumming, the progress loss is isn't enough to override the novelty of having stakes.on the other hand in a limited continue game where the first level is something I can play blind after 50+ completions, yeah at a certain point the repition is going to override any benefit abiding by the stakes of the game provides, I can't justify how dull it is.
>>12280724you didn't beat the game
>>12280670>Sure, just don't brag that you beat the game or are any good at it.Lol I'm definitely going to do this now, hilarious
>>12280548The Disruption of Resource ManagementThe argument assumes a clean state where time is the only variable. In Castlevania, progress is inextricably linked to your loadout—specifically your sub-weapon (like the Holy Water or Cross) and your multiplier (2/3x Shot). The game is designed as a resource-drain; death is intended to strip you of these advantages. By using save states, a player can effectively freeze a perfect resource state in time, bypassing the game’s primary difficulty curve of regaining power after a failure.Redefining the Unit of ChallengeThe argument posits that you reach the same point. However, Castlevania defines its points through a checkpoint system that groups three stages together. By using save states, a player reduces the unit of challenge from a full level to a single screen or even a single jump. This removes the endurance requirement. Reaching the boss after surviving a gauntlet of knights is a different mechanical feat than appearing at the boss’s door with full health via a save state.RNG and Frame ManipulationThe time travel defense suggests you are moving through a fixed timeline. In reality, Castlevania relies on frame-dependent enemy spawns, such as the chaotic patterns of Medusa Heads. Save states allow a player to brute-force reality. If an enemy arc is unfavorable, a quick reload allows the player to manipulate the RNG until they get an easy path. This isn't just traveling to a point; it is selecting a specific, easier version of that point.The Erasure of Psychological PressureFinally, the argument ignores the stress mechanic. Castlevania’s difficulty is psychological; the stiff jump commitment requires total composure. Save states remove the consequence of failure. Without the threat of replaying the entire level, the physical tension—and therefore the required mastery of one's own nerves—is eliminated. You are no longer beating the game’s difficulty; you are beating its mechanics in a vacuum
>>12280761>Castlevania’s difficulty is psychological; the stiff jump commitment requires total composure.Made me laugh
>>12280724more like filled to the brim with faggots like (You) who don't belong on this board>t. 26-year-old
>>12280435fast iteration makes you better quicker, thus savestating is a sign of a skilled player. also time equals money so why bother re-playing the same parts you already beat? the game design practice was made to siphon you out of quarters/rental hours, it's capitalist and predatory toward the player, don't just accept it. old games make you waste money so you can waste time and to be happy with that is a child's mindset.an adult mindset is making money to make time for yourself to get most out of life. this is why savestates and 75% speed makes inherent sense to me, i am an adult whose time has value. my time is worth too much to succumb to abstracted notions of a playthrough's "legitimacy". if i enjoyed it it's an organic playthrough to me period.
>>12280782Good post
>>12280761Grok explain this post
>>12280782>75% speedat that point you might as well use invincibility, infinite health, etc. cheats
>>12280782>savestating is a sign of a skilled player Lol, lmao really
>>12280824its how the pro athlete gamers train
>>12280498>You just travel in time to the moment you would naturally reach the same point of the game if you replayed it from the startexcept you wouldn't because it would be too tedious and time consuming. that factors into the challenge.
>>12280435Enjoy feeling hollow because that's the feeling that save states will leave you with. These games are not that hard and are like 20 minutes long, quit being a faggot and get good.
>>12280670>bragging about beating children gameNo save state will ever save such an person
Using save states to make redditors seethe>chad move
My riding abilities? I'm just as good as olympic champions.
>>12280959Pretty based. If an Olympian champion is threatened by this then they aren't very good
>>12280435Honestly just play it however you want. There's no value to completing a game "the RIGHT way" in and of itself, unless it's a goal that you set for yourself.
If you used save states, guides or rewind, you didn't beat the game.Not only you cheated the game, but also yourself.You brag about your "achievements" to others, yet deep down you know that it was all fake.You didn't experience anything, the challenge, the frustration, the overcoming, improving your skills. You just took a glimpse of what the game has to offer, the same level as "beating a game watching someone else beat it on YouTube".Even a crown made with fake gold, still shines from far away.You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't learn. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference.
>>12280813Pro Pianists have found it much better to train slowly without mistakes and then increase speed.
>>12281039this isn't about practice you fucking mongoloid
Why do people consider replaying parts of games to get back to where you were a bad thing? If you enjoy the game, you shouldn't mind playing more of it.
>>12281065So many games to play, so little time
>>12280435It's literally cheating. Might as well go full game genie. Hell why bother with any of it at all and just watch a playthrough
>>12281076Most zoomies are way ahead of you
>>12281071The thing you don't understand is that using savestates as a mean to "save time on your playthrough", because you're eager to play more games, does not make you save time in the long run, it does the contrary. Playing the games normally forces one to get good, which in turns leads to pick up on skills that will become useful in the next games, thus reducing the failure rate and the time involved learning a game. With savestates you never truly have to get good, you only learn moment to moment things that you forget just as easily, sometimes get lucky passing an obstacle and never have to learn it proper because you saved afterwards, etc And don't give me the "savestates help me get good FASTER" bullshit, that's a nonsense because if you truly got good, you wouldn't even need the savestate in the first place.
Imagine your biggest accomplishment in life is repeatedly playing a children's game over and over again like a tranny speed runner
>>12280730You didn't type that post without crying
>>12281060>dying repeatedly in a game to git gud isn't practice
>>12281093>Playing the games normally forces one to get good, which in turns leads to pick up on skills that will become useful in the next games, thus reducing the failure rate and the time involved learning a game.Try getting skills in life so you don't end up a failure
>>12281093>uhm acsksully using savestates makes playing the game take LONGER checkmate atheistsyou've just resorted to saying incoherent babble now
>>12280435>having to experiment in CastlevaniaWhat is there to "experiment" in Castlevania? The jump arc is always the same, the weapons lengths and arcs are always the same. It's the simplest fucking thing. It's not like enemies or even traps and bosses have complicated patterns either.How the fuck do you need savestates to "experiment" in Castlevania just to learn these things? Seriously, get good once and for all and you wouldn't need to """"experiment"""" and flail around like a retard to learn Castlevania.
>>12281071Playing a large number of different games is not an innately good thing. If you spent a day at an art gallery, would it be better to rush and give only a cursory glance at each painting in order to see them all, or would it be better to examine each painting more thoroughly at the expense of not seeing them all? Sure, you miss out by not playing every video game, but you miss out even more by glossing over the finer details of the games you do play.
>>12281127The time you spend reloading your savestates to retry the same simple obstale 4 or 5 times until you get it right? If you'd gotten good, you'd have passed that on the first try without needing the states. Playing without the states forces one to focus instead of playing like a retard because you know you have to safety cushion to fall back to.
>>12281138i like to use save states to practice tricky parts for when i do an actual run of the game
>>12281153In arcade beat em ups, i like to use save states at the beginning of stages and not progress to the next one until i beat the stage with at least 50% or more health
>>12280834With the difference that unlike you pro athletes can actually complete a run from start to finish without cheats.
>>12280435I don't use save states but in retrospect I abused quick saves. Maybe Capcom was onto something with the Resident Evil ink ribbons because sometimes you can get screwed in a checkpoint system.
I really hope that all the guide defenders, save state users, and achievement needers on this board are just trolling because man, how depressing.
>>12281190>Maybe Capcom was onto something with the Resident Evil ink ribbons because sometimes you can get screwed in a checkpoint system.you could say the same for any game where you could only save in certain areas, even those RPGs where you're only allowed to save on the overworld or at specific save points in dungeons.Having a system where auto-saves are something that triggers as soon as you enter a location is just shitty
There's no special reward for beating games 'the right way' but there is a penalty for replaying long parts of games over and over since it costs you real time which is limited; it's time you could use for eating, sleeping, working or engaging in a hobby besides video games. Save states also make replaying games you beat as a kid easier without the frustration. I wouldn't play games like the NES Blaster Master again without save states when I remember being a kid and having to leave the NES on overnight to continue the next day.
>>12280435I find it's more fun to play without save states, especially since a lot of these old games weren't so much about beating a challenge once and moving on, as doing an endurance run of the game or level with limited lives. You get way better at the game and understand its design much more if you play it on its own terms.I think save states are a great way to implement a sort of pseudo practice mode to experiment and find routes and learn the game, but it would be asinine to suggest that playing each individual note of a difficult piece music under perfect conditions is in any way comparable to performing the whole piece uninterrupted and playing it well.
>>12281093>Playing the games normally forces one to get good, which in turns leads to pick up on skills that will become useful in the next games..Maybe you'd have a point if I was a 6yo kid playing CoD for the first time
>make save states at the beginning of each level and before each boss>can now level select or boss rush after beating the game without having to look up cheat codes or edit your save files>no more anxiety about power outages, computer problems, or personal life things interrupting you
>>12281071>I'm a movie enthusiast; I save time by watching three movies at once on separate monitors muted with subtitles at 2x speedIf you're not taking the time to play the games in an enjoyable manner, what's the point of playing them at all?
>>12281206In games with unlimited continues I see no problem save stating wherever you would otherwise be continuing from except that you can't leave the emulator open for days on end.
>>12281250I am taking my time enjoying games
>>12281248cool, just never load them until you completed the game.
>>12281250Do you restart the movie everytime you use the bathroom, look off screen or when your mind wanders for a second?If not then you aren't fully enjoying the movie you fucking pleb
>>12280442I blame savescumming for the fact that my first playthrough of Thief took me 60 hours.
>>12281273behold the brilliant analogy from a savestater.
I just use save states and tell everyone I don’t. Simple as
>>12281356Based
>>12281356Having shame is 100x more respectable than people with no shame who actually think they are improving a game and their life by cheating
>>12281206>there is a penalty for replaying long parts of games over and over since it costs you real timeUnlike you I actually enjoying playing games and engaging with their mechanics.
>>12281359I only don't use save states when playing with a friend, because it's only cheating when it's a competition.
>>12281360But you can do that a million times better with save states.
>>12281359I agree that’s why I don’t use save states hehehe
>>12281364Bypassing the difficulty doesn't make me engage with the mechanics more.
>>12280435I’m sorry anon, but you just don’t like gamesJust stop playing all together and find a new hobby
>>12281368Depends how you use them, if you use them at the start of a stage then do the stage legit you do and even if you save states regularly but load at the slightest single hit you still do.Hell even using save states in games like rpgs and fighting games makes you understand how the ai works something it would take much longer without them.
>>12281372>if you use them at the start of a stage then do the stage legit you doNo, if I do I miss out on the tension and concentration of trying to clear the entire game without mistakes, which is the highest form of play in an arcade-style game.
>>12281375You would still avoid making mistakes even when using save states, that's the whole point of the game.
I used save states at the start of every room in re1-3
I see a lot of people are going with the second biggest lie>you will feel more fulfilled if you beat the game without save states.No I do not, it feels the same
>>12281385Using save states makes mistakes completely inconsequential and null, killing the tension and concentration of the run.You're delusional if you think that facing the final boss of a game after having cleared all the other stages flawlessly is the same as facing it after reloading a save at the beginning of its stage.
>>12281392not only did you not beat the game, you didnt even play the game
>>12281392How you feel is irrelevant, you simply didn't beat the game.
>>12281394>>12281395I beat games with and without save states and both feel the same, depends more on the game honestly
>>12281406When you go through a game with savestates you did not beat it, whether you felt immense satisfaction during it or not.When you play that game legit from start to finish you did beat it, even if you were bored.
>>12280435Use whatever you want man.You don't have to prove anything to anybody.
>>12281408Experiencing and enjoying the game >>>>>>> Beating the game
>>12281412As long as you're honest about it, sure.
>>12280782Best post in the entire thread.
Rewind >>> save states >>>>>>> rawdogging
>>12281206>there is a penalty for replaying long parts of gamesJust admit it, you don't enjoy playing the game if playing the game is such an affront to you.
>>12281356Based. I always brag about beating games easily too.
>>12281359>shame over playing a video gamelollmao
>>12281443>shame over playing a video gameIf you use savestates you arent playing a video game, its shame over being a pathetic wiener.
>>12281447He is playing and he is making the game his bitch
>>12280435Castlevania 1 is not a hard game, which you would be able to learn if you didn't use save states like a bitch
Autistic niggas really be out here tryna argue that if you use save states, you're fundamentally a dishonest person whose duplicitous nature will affect other parts of your life. They really see video games as some honorabru activity that bring great shame to famiry if you do not play them correctly. Really shows where these peoples' priorities are and how little they have in their lives.
>>12281450holy projectionyou didnt beat the game btw
Anti-staters are just original hardware fans seethe they can't use save states
>>12281206Just watch a video of someone else playing the game if you hate playing the game so much but you want to see how it ends. There are plenty of videos on youtube, both TAS and normal plays.
>>12281453I actually do both. Finish the game with save states and then watch streamers/speedrunners do itI also use guides if i’m stuck on puzzles
>>12281453>>12281424I like playing the game, I don't like not making progress or playing the same part again though
>>12281273That's not an applicable comparison because movies don't have challenges or interactivity in the way a game does. Games are active on the part of the player; movies are nothing but information conveyed to the viewer. A more apt comparison would be playing a piece of music or reciting a poem.I only compared games to films because of the commonality of people who don't actually like them speeding through them with the minimum effort or engagement required to say they watched/played it, just so they can cross it off their checklist and have some credentials to repeat the exact same preconceived opinion on it that they had heard going in.
