Post vidya characters who you consistently see people shit on but are actually not as bad as they're made out to be.Pic related. Admittedly, Relm doesn't make a good first impression, and her special Skill, which is how the game differentiates between the many characters and sells you on them during the first half of the game, really does suck and never gets better. But she really is quite capable, especially during the second half. What people miss is that more than any other character, she is completely reliant on both her gear and learned Magic to be good. Her gear is among the best in the game, and she has both the highest natural Magic stat and the gear that most raises that stat, so once you teach her good spells and get her best equipment, she becomes a powerhouse. Not the best, mind you, as other characters like Terra and Celes surpass her in other respects, and other characters like Sabin kick ass with far less work put into them, but she is hardly trash.Of course, if you just don't like her as a character, that's a different story, but battle-wise, you can certainly do a lot worse.
>>12289248It's decent not a shitmon
>>12289248The FakeMustache is great, when you want to do a Natural Magic Game, because Strago's Blue Magic becomes really useful.Relm doesn't get out-classed by Celes, because Relm's higher magic stat is the only thing that matters for basic magic casting. Terra only outdoes Relm's magic output in the Morphed state, which is basically a boss only nuke ability.And if you're playing on the SNES version, Relm still hits the 128% MBlock, so she's still rivalling Terra/Celes there too.The only way you're really going to say that Relm doesn't match Terra/Celes(outside of Terra's boss nuke) is if you're going out of the boundaries of magic use, and try to compare Relm to physical attackers. And in a game where magic is the most OP shit for combat/narrative, it's dumb to try to compare Relm to physical attackers.Relm might not have gotten much love in the 1990s, but she was always known to be the best FF6 mage by anyone who payed attention. The minmaxers on the internet have never stopped showing her love. Even when I was quite young, I thought her story was average, but she still had a place in my party, because of her ability as a mage.I think the only hurdle you have with her, is that you're always going to be behind with her spells, unless you go out of your way to grind spells for her, because the difficulty curve doesn't really require you to do much grinding. So you have to stop your natural progression, to keep her caught up on magic. Even in the WoR, at best, she's the 4th character you can get in your party again, and that's after missing out on having Relm in your party for roughly half of the potential spell learning time in the WoB. If you're not doing some Veldt grinding for spells, then you have to be pay pretty close attention to making sure that you keep Relm with priority for each esper.
>>12289318About the only thing I'll disagree with here is that Relm has to choose between a 128 MBlock setup and a Gem Box setup. Terra and Celes get to do both at once even without the Illumina, and with it they can pair the Gem Box with a Hero Ring, Marvel Shoes, Economizer, etc. Not to mention they can function as competent fighters if you so wish, though I wouldn't say they're the absolute best at it, but the option is there. That is why I say she doesn't quite measure up, but the advantage she has is that aside from the Force Shield required for her 128 MBlock setup, her equipment is all fairly unique to her and so you can easily drop her into almost any team without having to compromise anyone else's setup.
>>12289248>use sketch>game glitchesnah, i'm good
>>12289349>what is literally any version of the game except NTSC 1.0
>>12289248I seem to remember a thread about Relm a few months back. My observations went something like this:-An interesting property about Relm is that she has access to a wider variety of armor-clothes than just about anyone else. She gets to do the "cute outfits" (Chocobo/Moogle Suit etc), along with the main stuff.-One of my favorite ways to use Relm is for the purposes of farming the really exotic equipment. A great party for this is: Locke, Relm, Gogo, Mog. Have Mog Moogle Charmed until you reach the area where you want to farm. The sequence goes: clear all enemies which don't have the thing, isolate one target which may have the thing, have Relm CONTROL IT. This is great because the controlled target is then completely under your control and NOT ON A CLOCK. Have Locke or whoever attempt Morph with Ragnarok (farming rare items) and then just have Gogo mimic same until it hits.-Her special sucks, but IIRC she starts the game with higher innate magic power than any other character, even Terra or Celes. And since magic power is the most important thing in this particular game, Relm is a great final addition. When Edgar delivers the very early line "Magic is going to be the key to winning this war", he's not only giving a clue to the general plot, he's also giving essential tactical advice to the speedrunner.Relm also objectively works well with Strago in certain situations, on-purpose, for the purposes of learning Lores (e.g. Relm sketches that Earthguard desert ray thing before it auto-dies, then Strago learns the thing, and some other instances).All of this is rather contrived, but I play for completionism.
>>12289292That's true, but only in Gen 2, starting with Gen 3 this thing just got hopelessly outclassed by stuff like Linoone, Stoutland, Raticate (thanks to Guts) and even Bibarel.
>>12289352If you're not playing the original release of the game you're not a Real Retro Gamer.
>>12289248I used Quina in my last couple of playthroughs in FF9. Quina is really damn good if you go out of your way to do the frog catching shit and get blue magic. Frog Drop is awesome.Amarant also becomes good later on in the game, the problem is it takes so long for him to get good skills.
>>12289248Midway through FF10 now and Kimahri is by far my most powerful character. Cut through Rikku's tree to get Steal and Use then into Yuna's to get Holy long before she does, he can now do 9999 damage a turn against bosses while other damage dealers are doing around 2000.
>>12289401It's insane to me how Sketch's damage formula uses Relm's level but the enemy's Magic stat, when frequently (or at least those you'd want to Sketch) the enemy will be higher-leveled than Relm but have a vastly lower Magic stat. And then they had the gall to make it miss frequently, requiring a shitty hat to make it miss less (but still not guaranteed to hit), and even when successful have it just do a basic bitch attack half the time. It's like they went well out of their way to make it suck. And the concern can't have been that it would be overpowered, when fucking Sabin can spam the same Blitzes over and over freely and without consequence.
>>12289248Cloud in FFT
>>12289248I thought everyone knew Relm was the best mage lol
>>12290957I think the thrashing of Relm mostly comes from more casual players. Such people tend to rate party members largely around their unique skills and, to a lesser extent, their equipment, and to a degree it's understandable, as it's what most visibly differentiates them, given that everyone has close to the same HP/MP growth and everyone but Gogo and Umaro (the ACTUAL worst character) can learn all Magic spells. It's why Sabin gets so highly rated, because you get him early on already kicking ass, he keeps kicking ass as the game comes along, and his ultimate attack is super easy to get, absurdly strong, and easily spammable with no drawbacks. He's a character for whom you instantly get the appeal, his shortcomings be damned. For Relm, you have to dig beneath the surface (i.e. her special Skill) to get why she's actually good, and it takes work to make her good, and part of the reason is because she's simply one of the best at one of the things everyone but Umaro can do. I can see why some wouldn't care much for that, even once shown this is why she's not actually bad.
Even through Chrono Trigger is the easiest game in the world, there are people on this very board who insult me when I say I always put Frog on my team
>>12291223Yeah, he's not a bad character in any sense, he's just not completely broken the way Crono, Robo and Ayla are.
>>12291223He's truely the bejita of the game.
>>12291509uh
>>12291223Chrono/Frog/Ayla until the thing happens, then Frog/Ayla/Magus for me. I also used Glenn in CC a lot because he was cool, clearly a Frog expy, and had a Masamune for each hand.I'm on your side bro
>>12291223>>12291978My favorite team has always been Crono/Marle/Frog, despite Marle and Frog both being considered on the low end of characters. At least some of the combo techs are nice, like using Double Cure for full healing on your party. Plus it's the party on the box. Arc Impulse is the Triple Tech being used in the art.
>>12289248she ruined my save, i think that's a fairly earned bad rep
>>12291223Frog sux and looks dumb
>>12291978I always wondered why they had a dude literally named Glenn who could wield the Masamune and not have it be Frog or even be related to him. So much about CC bewilders me.
>>12290309is there any way to pump up the enemy's magic stat?
>>12291041Umaro has some utility since he requires only relics to make work. He's not great - but he's what I'd call a filler/utility prepromote in FE terms - functional immediately to go do very specific tasks that others require far more time and resources to do.
>>12293915i've spent a lot of time trying to figure out ways to make umaro fun to play. where there's a will, there's a way.
it was just banter
>>12293903None that I know of.>>12293915Sabin is who you want to fulfill such a role, though - he takes close to no effort to get up to his full potential, and then he does exactly what Umaro does, only way better. Hell, even Shadow would fit the bill, you just need to get him shit to Throw. About the only thing Umaro has going for him is that he can kick ass in the Fanatics' Tower because he doesn't give a shit about the Magic-only requirement, but even then he's probably not who you want against the MagiMaster.
>>12293928umaro is also interesting to me because he seems to have an immutable set of equipment- like many of the characters who you can control for short periods only, general leo, vicks, and wedge for example. i've been looking for a way to get different weapons and armor into their hands but so far have been unsuccessful. i think that their weapons and armor lists are hardcoded and can't be changed. perhaps the entire list could be swapped from one character to another using rom addresses or game genie. imagine umaro but wielding general leo's gear.
>>12293928He has utility in Kefka's tower too. I think I remember discussing this months ago - he's decent immediate filler for one of the worse teams and I know you can use Celes w/ Runic and other berserker characters alongside Umaro to allow Cyan to charge up his bushido to have one shitter team easily plow through their section (w/ Celes being the only character with actual investment - i kinda like this since it's fitting her status as a general to once again slap down Kefka with untrained soldiers like in Narshe).
>>12293935>imagine umaro but wielding general leo's gear.Yeah that could be interesting to try. Umaro has the Bone Club equipped and a Snow Muffler. You wouldn't want any other armor, Snow Muffler rules, but Leo's Aegis Shield is nice and Crystal Sword is a little bit stronger than the Bone Club.
>>12293943I always wondered if you used the Unequip Everyone option, would that remove Umaro's gear?
>>12293946Nah it doesn't, it's safe to use it. Though apparently that terrible looking Steam version had a bug where Umaro could lose his equipment that way. Here are people talking about it happening to them:https://steamcommunity.com/app/382900/discussions/0/3435626476280730346/A free Snow Muffler is a use for Umaro though, so maybe it's not the worst thing. And the Bone Club can be traded for a Red Jacket.
>>12293946no. all of the characters i mentioned aren't like the main cast. their weapons and armor don't come off ever. some of them, like leo, can't even have their relics changed. you can use game genie codes to give different command lists to characters but i have never found any way to change their weapons and armor. it makes me think that they are fundamentally different than the main cast characters. >>12293943i knew someone would say that. i'm not trying to make umaro into some kind of unstoppable beast, i just wish he was less one-dimensional. if i could change his weapons and armor he'd be a lot more interesting.
>>12293943snow muffler is the best armor in the game, isn't it?
>>12293972In terms of absolute defense, it is, and it's the reason Mog and Gau can both reach max physical Defense. However, it has competition in the Minerva, which bestows good stat boosts and lots more elemental protections, and (at least in the original version) the Force Armor, which also gives some elemental protection and a whopping +30 to MBlock.
>>12293915>>12293919Umaro/Gogo/Gau/Mog is the thinking man's party
>>12294354Except that 3/4 are auto-battle characters
>>12294619I think that's the joke, as Gogo can also go full auto-battle with Dance or Rage.
>>12294619>>12294643All characters can go full auto-battle if you cast Berserk on them.
>>12293856Is this some kind of weird bait?Frog is Glenn.
>>12294654In FF4 that actually is a highly effective strategy. Even against Zeromus who dispels it periodically.
>>12294780Nevermind, didn't realize you were talking about the fanfic game on Playstation.
>>12289792Isn't it literally not in the Japanese version either? It's a freak English localization accident because (technical reasons)?
>>12289248I was always kinda disappointed how they didn't do much with her story into the overarching themes of grief/despair/etc. Even in the WoR she just quietly adapts until its time to go. Even Strago falling into his mortal enemy's cult after thinking she was dead made more sense, yet the most we got was focused on more hints toward the barely hidden family link she had. I just kinda took it as her avoiding facing those issues due to being a kid, but there's never any payoff for any of it.
>>12294712Eiko is widely considered better than Garnet, though. Amarant is probably the one who gets shit on the most in that game.
>>12295252Part of the general issue with FF6 is the structure of isolated vignettes spread across so many characters in the SNES era of limited ROM size. There's just too many factors working against exploring the full potential of each character's storyline.
>>12295252From what I understand, they did want to have more scenes exploring all of that, including one where Shadow and Strago talk things out in Thamasa, but they got cut for whatever reason. Like >>12295304 says, they might just have run out of space to do some of what they wanted, so some things fell by the wayside.
>>12295258I'm not talking about gameplay, I'm talking about writing. Eiko is pretty commonly called an annoying brat who steals attention away from Garnet.
>>12295304>>12295349Yeah, I can see that. Its just a shame when a lot of other characters get really good development into the theming, while some just kinda only have half their stories told. Relm was always a standout to me because there's so much to explore between dealing with loss at her age, how it shaped her to become a bit of a little shit, and the potential between her, Strago, and Shadow. If everyone had the same level of writing and narrative development as characters like Celes, I feel people wouldn't play favorites within the cast as much.
>>12289804Quina and Freya are auto inclusions in any ff9 endgame party for me because of Dragon Crest and Frog Drop, not to mention Quina's blue magic. These 2 have basically free guaranteed 9999 attacks.
>>12291223I like using Magus even if he can't combine techs without items>but why he SUXBecause RULE OF COOL mf
>>12291512I mean, human Frog (Glenn) basically looks exactly like GT Vegeta with green hair, he's definitely got Magus beat on that department
>>12290957Although Relm has the highest innate magic power, there's still a MASSIVE structural problem for her as a mage, specifically: she is the last of the "Main Twelve" to come on board, and because she enters the game so late (and competes with so many others in the player's mind in terms of party management), she has to do lots of catch-up just to learn basic spells if that's what the player wants. The fact that you have some espers that train up the basic stuff very quickly doesn't make this less tedious. By the point of Floating Continent, you want level 2 spells, especially Cure 2, which is arguably the single most important conventional magic spell in the entire game. But a real magic repertoire requires a baseline of 5-10 critical spells. I'm thinking on the more casual side of why a newer player would bother with Relm around the middlegame.Worse, Relm doesn't learn critical magic innately at appropriate levels (although it seems like she should). Terra and Celes do.Also, by the point that Relm actually comes into the game, the plot is getting quite interesting and so the player's instinct is to just keep pushing forward through plot stuff rather than grinding too much. And then it's off to WoR and you have to spend the first third, or half of that time reassembling the party before you could even get Relm back. The only time in the game when Relm is forced into the party is the Thamasa/Esper intrigue.By the time that Relm comes around, the newbie/casual player is presented with lots of special powers that they are free to choose from. The casual player is meant to just experiment, but has plenty of material to work with so that reasonable parties can be fielded even with half-informed play. If you're playing quickly and are uninformed, it honestly doesn't make much sense to develop Relm much, just as spending time on Gau's rages also doesn't make sense except for completionism. Relm is also never really (playably) "alone", truly on her own.
>>12295417i like to do magus+chrono+frog>frog/magus archnemisis teamup>sword - sorcery - healing>no girls allowed>>12295493relm is a special gift to players who have already played through the game 1000 times and want something different. i'm thinking a relm/umaro duo would be GOAT because you'd only have to control one character and still get all the benefits of heavy melee and also have the best magic user in the game at your disposal. despite playing through the world of balance many times, i've never really explored the game using relm and it might be fun to focus on her on into the WOR. she's one of my favorite characters, second only to celes. reminds me of rydia from ff4, the child mage.
>>12295493I will say if you're smart, you can still make Realm work rather well when you first get her without going out of your way too much to grind for spells. Just put an Esper teaching level 2 spells on her (Maduin if you want all three, Shiva if you want one ASAP), then equip her with dual elemental rods, and she'll do pretty nice damage while she learns her spells. In fact, if you take her to the floating continent, she will absolutely slaughter the Imperial Air Force on the way there with dual Thunder Rods. By the time you reach the FC, she should have learned or be close to learning some of the good spells, and you can then work on Cure 2.
>>12295417Magus is also the most versatile character in the game. All elemental coverage, a very good buff, high stats, and optional triple techs for certain comps. If the game were harder, he'd be considered a lot more useful instead of just the obvious rule of cool.
>>12295349They tended to have fairly tight deadlines back then. Which, honestly, adds to the enigmatic nature of the games for me.
>>12295426His sprite looks a bit different than the anime cutscene added in the PSX version. I can justify it by his hair being long after transforming back, then fixing it up before appearing in front of the queen.
>>12295707I thought about the Rods thing as I wrote the above post, and you seem to be referring to Relm equipping two rods—but in the middle of the game (the bosses), you want to use them as items! Here's a protip for the middle of the game, and the game explicitly gives you this "use weapons-as-items" clue early on: The basic elemental rods are one-shot kills on the right bosses right in the middle, especially the FC lead-up, and you don't need Relm for this. I understand you were talking about the earlier non-boss fights.The first proof of concept for this is with Locke and Celes as they encounter TunnelArmr (you can grab and use a Thunder Rod to one-shot it), but only if the involved chest wasn't claimed on the initial pass. The Air Force boss sequence is the clearest prove-out on using rods as items: Fire rod on Ultros, Ice Rod on Chupon, Thunder Rod on Air Force's core body. Ice rods as-items are also great against Atma Weapon, a short time later, and Fire rods are extremely useful against Dullahan, the final bottleneck until the WoR airship and true freedom.The basic elemental rods themselves are bottlenecked in WoB Thamasa around the halfway point, and so if you want to buy in bulk, you have to do it there and then. The problem is that they're fairly expensive, and in the WoB especially, money is tight until after raiding the Imperial chest and thereabouts (and even still). The tactical player knows exactly how many rods to buy/work up in WoB Thamasa, and then deploy them for very easy boss battles as appropriate.Your comment (which I take to mean having the item(s) equipped) also reminds one that you can un-equip hand items (weapons and shields) during battle itself. So it's possible for Relm (or anyone) to use Thunder rods as you said, then un-equip the thing in battle and use same as an item as I indicated above.
>>12296001Indeed, you are correct on all fronts. The strategy of having Relm dual-wield elemental rods is but a stopgap to use against randoms while she learns her priority spells. I put it forward as a way to solve the issue of her coming in so late with nothing learned without having to go out of your way to grind Intangirs or whatever for Magic Points. But yeah, against bosses, breaking rods is probably the best thing you can do if you have the cash to spare. Shit, Morphed Terra can deal 9999 with one as low as level 20 if she hits a weakness. Pic related.
Of course, even better would be breaking elemental shields, but it's pretty hard to get a good supply of those.
>>12296073I still have this "not even looking at the deadly explosion she caused" image saved from that thread. Cool pinky
>>12296001Trying for the early Debilitator steal from Right Crane/Missile Bay might be worth a mention, though you won't have it for long before WoR anyway. Not necessary by any means so I see why you left it off. Nice list anon.
>>12295718If the game were harder, his lack of white magic and double techs (especially physical ones) would be even more apparent.
>>12295493>there's still a MASSIVE structural problem for her as a mage, specifically: she is the last of the "Main Twelve" to come on board, and because she enters the game so late (and competes with so many others in the player's mind in terms of party management), she has to do lots of catch-up just to learn basic spells if that's what the player wants.Not only that, but if you are reasonably diligent about using espers to boost magic stats and aren't under-leveled on purpose, Terra and Celes are likely to have caught up to Relm by the time you get her. Relm's casting stat is still great, but not practically the advantage isn't as huge as it seems looking only at the starting stats.
>>12291987I think like 99% of Chrono Trigger players completely ignore Marle's steal ability. You can get rainbow gear and other really awesome equipment way earlier in the game with her. Marle and Ayla have a steal double tech that raises the percentage even more.
>>12296963>I think like 99% of Chrono Trigger players completely ignore Marle's steal abilityProbably because it's Ayla who has the single-tech steal ability. Marle only has the double variant with Ayla.
>>12291987I liked this group especially early on (Frog and Marle's Ice Water double tech is a pretty strong full-screen attack available before you unlock the level 2 elementals). But later on, it's really hard to compare with swapping out Frog for Robo. Robo's healing is better than Frogs and Life Line is easily one of the best triple-techs in the game. Arc Impulse is cool but when Chrono's best damage option is Confuse/Frenzy or Luminaire, it's hard to justify wasting his turn on a low-level triple tech.
>>12296947While that is true, as I pointed out earlier, I think the main advantage she has is that she has a different set of equipment that raises her Magic more than what Terra and Celes can equip, and it's also mostly unique to her, so you can fully kit her out alongside one of those two and most likely not inconvenience them. The Cat Hood in particular is the best helmet in the game, and only she can use it, so that's also nice.
>>12297104>she has a different set of equipment that raises her Magic more than what Terra and Celes can equipnot by that much> it's also mostly unique to her, so you can fully kit her out alongside one of those two and most likely not inconvenience themsure>The Cat Hood in particular is the best helmet in the game, and only she can use it, so that's also nice.Also true for sure.Though this also reinforces how bonkers this game's class/equipment system gets by the end. Relm and Strago are supposed to be mage characters, but suffer no innate HP penalty and have access to armor like the Behemoth Suit, which is better than Genji Armor in almost every category. Even the Nutkin suit is pretty close as well.
Forgot to mention: someone up there talked about how Relm is Strago's best friend when it comes to learning his Lores. Well, she's also Shadow's as it happens. Thanks to her Cat Hood, you can earn twice as much money from battles, so a great thing to do is if you're in the mood to grind for spells in Maranda Desert is to take Relm along, and by the time you're done you're gonna have more money than you'll know what to do with. I invest it all into throwing weapons for Shadow, particularly elemental swords and Falchions, which are expensive but stronger than Ninja Stars. People generally like Shadow but seem to sleep on how strong he actually is when he hits an elemental weakness. Even at relatively low levels, he'll be hitting 9999. And he can hit EVERY weakness with the right weapon. Sadly, the strongest Wind-elemental weapon is only available in the WoB, but not that many enemies are solely susceptible to it anyway.>>12297238Yeah, honestly a bit weird how they decided to make everyone have basically the same HP and MP regardless of class.
I remember when FF7 autists scoffed at the idea of ever using Tifa in FF7. It was only after years of speedrunning strats that people came around to appreciate that usefulness through 99% of the game > usefulness for the extra optional 1% of the game.
>jumps from windows shooting down at enemies without even looking>bravely walks up to infested fucks and kicks the shit out of them>dodge-rolls snipers like a Souls character>saves Claire several times>hated because he has been saved by Claire many many times more (once. exactly once)i guarantee you you've been a much bigger bitch when you were 17
>>12297452Steve always gets hate for being a bit of an obnoxious late 90's/early 00's angstlord, but when you break it down he really is up there with most RE side characters, and not too far behind the protags. All he needed was growth like Leon and he could have been a series mainstay.
So is this a thread where people pretend jRPGs have enough strategic depth or challenge to make party member choices relevant?
>>12297585Depends on the game, and the intent. Most jRPGs are designed to not NEED that level of depth, with stuff like CT being a perfect example. Its very easy to get through, but the ways you can change things with party comps and tech combos gives a lot of depth that is specifically just to have fun with. The Star Ocean games tend to be great about that as well, though only one of the non-retro ones was even any good. The idea was always that when game access was more limited, you tended to go deeper into the games you had than you needed to, and sometimes that shit could get pretty interesting. FF6 in particular had a lot of really weird bugs that made some stuff pretty wild under the right conditions, so stuff like psycho cyan or merit award fixed dice had some cool interactions you could explore in subsequent playthroughs.
>>12297609>merit award fixed diceOh yeah, I really need to try that. IIRC Morph actually doubles its damage, so Terra can do absolutely bonkers damage with it together with an Offering. She can also become the ultimate Dragoon as well.
>>12296984Oh yeah, after replaying the game there's no denying Robo is the best. Especially if you feed him some tabs (Speed to boost his low starting stat, and Magic to boost his Techs). He's already good unaltered, but after some Magic Tabs he'll heal at ton to the whole party. >Frog and Marle's Ice Water double tech is a pretty strong full-screen attack available before you unlock the level 2 elementalsDefinitely, love that move.
>>12297665I feel a lot of the double techs in particular were designed to cover weaknesses in psynergies. Robo and Ayla getting boogie made me realize that the two of them are pretty focused on hurt/heal (and charm ofc) but they didn't really have anything for utility outside that. Same with that redundancy in water coverage, even aura whirl covers Marle's lack of multi target healing that Robo and Glenn have. Its a pretty neat approach, and fits in with jack of all trades Magus not having any.
>>12297687It's been a bit since I've played CT, but in the end the single techs are what end up mattering most in terms of raw damage output, right?
>>12297450>I remember when FF7 autists scoffed at the idea of ever using Tifa in FF7What was the deal? Her limit? If you're speedrunning why are you wasting time building limit bar?And if it's her final weapon, I remember not using them once I saw the 0 AP growth and beat even the postgame bosses without them.
>>12297585No WRPGs have been mentioned ITT because WRPGs don't even have enough depth for it not to be immediately obvious who the good and bad characters are.
>>12299736>Her limit?Yes, for a while autists only cared about the potential damage dealing of characters with max stats to finish emerald/ruby quickly, it didn't matter that there are other foolproof methods to finish them off without limit breaks. So for years you would be yelled at in communities like Gamefaqs for using anyone other than Cloud/Barret/Cid/Yuffie because all that mattered was limit break damage with level 100 characters and maxed out stats. Tifa was always rated as ultra low tier by these people. Only after people started to speedrun the game seriously and discovered the usefulness of the Powersoul, the perception on Tifa changed.
>>12299664It depends I think.I'm pretty sure that Chrono's best damage options are almost always Confuse(Frenzy) and Luminaire. They are fairly greedy on MP, though. The Falcon Hit double tech with Ayla is also extremely powerful.But Marle, for example, doesn't have any high-tier direct offensive options. Her physical attacks suck and her best damage spell is Ice 2. So double techs let her contribute and the result might be better than using singles. These are made-up numbers, but pretty close I think:Robo uzzi punch 1,100 + Marle Crossbow 250 = 1,350vsRobo+Marle Ice Tackle = 1,500Ice Tackle also uses a less mana, evenly distributed [2 Marle, 4 Robo] vs [12 Robo].
>>12299767>PowersoulJust checked what you're taking about and what the fuck. Where could you find that the weapon worked like that in the game?I can see efficiency fags dissing her later, but she's the only one with multi hits limit break for quite a while, and can you even account on max stats before getting the submarine?And I remember killing Ruby weapon at level 89 non maxed Cid as a kid, and lower in later replays. Guess Gamefaqs will always be for the people that recommend being ten levels over what the game needs like in so many faqs.
>>12297585FF6 lets you easily make a shit party that will get completely wrecked in current-level dungeons if you aren't prepared and don't know what you're doing. But all characters can be useful.>>12299745OP posted a character from Final Fantasy VI, which seems to have attracted people interested in discussing 90s Squaresoft games.Do you have any underrated characters from WRPGs that you'd like to nominate for discussion and explain why they're actually great?
>>12299767>>12299831The Final Fantasy series and FF7 especially has always attracted a lot of dumb kids. There were always a lot of retards on the GameFaqs Final Fantasy forums (many of that type moved to reddit when final fantasy subreddits started to get popular)
>>12299850lel anyone got that screencap of the dude who got stuck on the first boss of Kefka's Tower because he hadn't even equipped half his characters and had fuck-all for equipment?
>>12299872>>>12299850 (You)I do in fact have that screencap
>>12300037lol the funny thing is he apparently had a Gem Box, which given his retardation tells me he just looked up a cheese strat to get past the MagiMaster but had no understanding of the game otherwise.
>>12300098Yeah I wondered about that also
>>12299745There's no such thing as a "WRPG".>>12299850>FF6 lets you easily make a shit party that will get completely wrecked in current-level dungeonsIt doesn't.
>>12296001where can i read this spreadsheet?
>>12297452His VA and lines contributed heavily to him being one of the most cringeworthy characters in all of vidya.
>>12300331>It doesn't.yes it does.You can make a party with Umaro and Gogo before you even know how to customize Gogo's menu (which the g ame never explains) and so all you'll be able to do is Mimic. Such a party literally cannot heal in combat (even with items) and its damage output is going to be very poor.You are retarded and should stop talking about topics you don't know anything about.
>>12300401Do you realize how many fuckups combined with going out of your way to unlock hidden additional party members that requires? Do you think this is a remotely reasonable scenario, or are you just being a disingenuous cunt? Considering they would probably need a guide to find Gogo, maybe they could also research how to stop eating paint chips?
>>12300401>remembers to plug his controller inStop showing off.
>>12295426>Zoro (forma de Toriyama)
>>12300457>Do you realize how many fuckups combined with going out of your way to unlock hidden additional party members that requiresNot the relevant standard.Did you even read the post I was responding to? He made an idiotic post and I posted a simple, direct and factual refutation. If you want a REASONABLE response, you have to be reasonable in the first place. You can't be an idiot.The "reasonable" reality is that yes, it is absolutely fucking possible to assemble an under-powered party that will be very difficult to manage. A party of Gogo and Umaro is just an extreme and incontrovertible example. You can easily build yourself a party of under-leveled, under-geared characters that will get destroyed by harder content that your main characters can handle just fine. And yes people may get careless after, for example, wrecking Tyranosaurs with no problem using their primary characters. Then they take their bench-warmers to the same place to level up, and get their asses kicked. FF6 lets you do this. There are other notable games that do not. In Chrono Trigger, for example, it is essentially impossible to create a bad party. By the time you can customize your party, you are forced to have at least 3 members and every character in the game is will have a reasonable array of abilities. (And for most of the game, Chrono himself is an absolute requirement).
>>12297452he wears a fucking choker, dude. i'm not into his chibi dark moon energy collar bullshit, he looks like he smells like stale cheetos
>>12300582>Did you even read the post I was responding to?Yes, and you didn't make a >direct and factual refutationYou made a fucking retarded implausable gotcha scenario to try to provide a technicality to invalidate his point. The game was designed to be as accomidating to party structure as it could, which is why even the "glass cannon" archetype mages get some of the best fucking armor in the game. You have to purposely fuck up like your strawman for it to be remotely an issue.> If you want a REASONABLE response, you have to be reasonable in the first place. You can't be an idiot.Guess this is a short conversation then.
>>12300592>You made a fucking retarded implausable gotcha scenario to try to provide a technicality to invalidate his point.He didn't make a point that demanded anything more than a technical invalidation.You want to make one for him, go ahead and do it. Prove that it's completely unreasonable to suggest that any party that a normal player might assemble in the World of Ruin, will never have problems with the Tyranosaur forest.Otherwise, accept that you're the faggot making an unreasonable point.
>>12291223My first time playing (blind) I went Crono, Lucca and Frog and Frog was always the hero with the party heal. I also killed Magus because he was Frog's enemy and I only found out he was playable when I started finding gear for him a while later lolAfter reading gamefaqs I learned Robo has better healing if you give him magic tabs but that's lame, Frog is better earlier and without abusing obscure stuff (really 99% of people would never think to improve Robo's magic without reading a guide first)
>>12300582>The "reasonable" reality is that yes, it is absolutely fucking possible to assemble an under-powered party that will be very difficult to manage.Remember, I replied to:>lets you easily makeAnd you confirmed my disagreement by making an outlandish scenario.
>>12300613It's very easy to make a party of Umaro and Gogo, it's not outlandish at all. Moderately unlikely is all.And again, I've advanced the argument in a "reasonable" fashion and you have been completely unable to respond. I am right, you are wrong.
>>12300630You have to go out of your way to lose in children's games, liking putting together a party of underequipped and underleveled characters. You confirmed this. This also really has nothing to do with party composition, but rather just playing the game wrong due to some kind of developmental disorder, which only reflects on the game and not the player.Now, cry.
>>12300601Yup, short conversation.
>>12300649>which only reflects on the game and not the playerReverse that, lol. Me brain failed.
>>12300607I wouldn't call giving Robo magic tabs obscure when he is your only Shadow coverage outside of a "secret" character. In fact his elemental techs are very useful vs any enemies that dont resist or absorb them. He really is just overtuned when you think about it, which is actually kinda fitting with how he is used in the meta storytelling.
>>12300662You give Robo magic tabs for Heal Beam, which quickly becomes a full party heal for dirt cheap. Nearly all of his physical options are better than Shock.
>>12300756And thats my point, its not about shock, its about heal beam, laser spin, and his shadow double techs. Still more intuitive than using them on Ayla.
>>12300763>it's not about Shock, it's about the weaker early game version
>>12300771You spend most of the game using the earlier abilities, especially since, again, he is your only Shadow coverage, with a portion of the game focusing on magic damage more than physical.I'm saying if you find it "obscure" with all these incentives to bump his magic up, you're part of the reason the game was designed to not be particularly difficult.
>>12300782Just admit you though Shock was electric so everyone can laugh at you.
>>12300786
>>12300340I have no intention to upload any excel files anywhere, but I can post fragments on most any subject if you'd like.I've built up a few dozen files in a "detailed gameplay notes" folder, including multiple spreadsheets. In general, I personally like to play for completionism, but I started to incorporate speedrun ideas from Puwexil's "all espers and characters" run at some GDQ event, because he hits a certain benchmark of completionism that I find satisfying while getting it done in a single shift of work. I would say that guides.gamercorner.net is probably one of the very best resources if you happen to be playing old school Woolsey SNES (my preferred version, personally I'm not much interested in others). Their data is almost always accurate.One example is my general opinion on the relics, as shown.
>>12301192Meant to post this image. Elon Musk can go to hell btw, I saved that as an example of him being a terrible person, not because I agree with it.
>>12301192In general, I just replay a few old SNES classics (that I grew up with) now and again, and don't bother seriously with anything else. I've come up with personal "perfectionist" procedures for FFVI and Earthbound. Recently I've been learning little tricks for Super Metroid (via Zeni, Zoast, OatsnGoats, people like that) and refined my personal "completionist" thing with that game to under 2:00 hours of in-game time. Not at all impressive from a Super Metroid speedrunner's point of view, but I like to explore every square, blast open every door etc, and so that's the benchmark I was looking to optimize.There's a thing in Super Metroid where you can use a wall hack to blast open a door at the landing site and then just speed through. It's documented quite well on dedicated speedrun websites, but I wanted to understand it for myself based on how the above consistently do it, which led to me generate pic related.My setup is very poor, because I use a keyboard with emulation, whereas the real thing to do with Super Metroid is to use an SNES controller. But I don't want to hurt my hands so I simply apply tricks as I learn them and don't try to do anything crazy fast. Have been thinking about working on the various boss battles.
>>12301178What's your preferred strategy for defeating Siegfried in the coliseum? I came up with a pretty bonkers one involving Gogo and the Stunner, but it involves a lot of luck.
>>12301221I've never bothered with it! I understand that Siegfried suddenly goes from stupid punk to giga-powered enemy in there, but his bet/win chain is irrelevant from the completionist's point of view. Still, it's a challenge that one should be aware of it and try out. From my point of view, Siegfried doesn't have anything that I want (Tintinabar), which is why I don't care.But how does one approach the Colosseum in general? I like to designate Setzer as my pit bull with Fixed Dice, Dice, Genji Glove and Offering. The strength of this combo ultimately depends on Setzer's level, so you want to level him a bit (around 30s/40s or so IIRC) to make him truly dangerous with this. In this look, Setzer is getting the stuff at top right, converting things via chains that simply can't be got any place else. Ideally, you do all this in a single visit, then Setzer flips his hair, says "heh, nothing personal, kid", and leaves with his winnings. In a way, it's fitting that the gambling nature of the Colosseum goes so well with the Setzer character.Apart from the Economizer, the Mirage Vest is about the second hardest thing to get in the game, because the player needs an extremely rare morph-drop to even access it, and then has to process that through the colosseum chain. Marvel Shoes are good enough that it's worth working up 5 of them (outfit one full party, keep one as a place holder).
>>12301385I see. I figured you'd count beating him at least once as part of "doing everything", but I understand where you're coming from. For what it's worth, my method involves outfitting Gogo with a Merit Award, a Genji Glove, the Stunner, the Illumina, a Force Armor, and a Bard's Hat, then give him three Attack commands. The point of the setup is to get lucky and trigger the Stunner's Stop spell, which Siegfried is vulnerable to, then dish out the real damage with the Illumina and its random Pearl casts. Only problem is, unless you give a Magic command to Gogo, the Illumina's autocrits won't trigger, hampering Gogo's damage. I learned later that if you give him the command, he will do the autocrits, but I didn't test it in the Coliseum, where I'm not sure if he'll have any Magic to cast since he'll be by himself, but if he does, he has a chance to cast some random spell, wasting a valuable turn. The armor choices are just to get his MBlock as high as possible so he avoids as many attacks as possible outside the unblockable HyperDrive, which is basically a one-hit kill below VERY high levels.I'm not saying this is the best way to beat Siegfried, but it IS the best way I could come up with to beat him at lower levels. I managed to pull it off with Gogo somewhere in the 20's. Possibly with your Setzer setup, he might be able to end him at more reasonable end-game levels (40-50 or so) provided he doesn't get HyperDrive'd in the first turn.
cont.>But how does one approach the Colosseum in general?Honestly, most enemies can safely be approached with an Illumina-based 128 MBlock setup, which anyone can use with a Merit Award. However, if the enemy is vulnerable to instant death, Shadow is your man. Equip him with the Assassin, Striker, Genji Glove, and Offering, and he has an extremely high chance of triggering ID. And if they're vulnerable to Stop? Give him the Stunner and the Dragoon setup, and he has a good chance of triggering Stop, and he can take it from there. And if you want to reduce randomness and he's at a decent level, Gogo with his 126 MBlock setup and three Attack commands is nearly invincible and will eventually win in most cases.>Mirage VestI just bet the Thornlet Hidon drops for it. It's a pretty useless helmet, and while the Mirage Vest isn't the greatest thing either, at least it's more unique.
Correction: the Thornlet you STEAL from Hidon. I make it a point to do so, knowing how rare it is, and I never get the Ragnarok Esper to Morph more.
>>12301385>how does one approach the Colosseum in general?I just start with a character with minimal spells learned possible to avoid wasted turns. I have reset button ready in case I need to switch around equipment to adjust immunties, etc.If you are savescumming anyway, Gau is a solid choice since even a shitty rage is going to be roughly 50% physical attacks.>>12301457>Illumina-based 128 MBlock setup, which anyone can use with a Merit AwardKind of a strange recommendation as Merit Award and Illumina are both obtained from the Colosseum in the first place.
>>12302562Well, there are other max MBlock setups that can work until you manage to get those, such as Enhancer-based setups for Terra, Celes, and Edgar. There's also Gogo's 126 MBlock setup, which reduces the randomness since you can set all his commands to attack, but he's also bound to be weaker due to his trash stats and the fact that you don't have room to give him any relics other than White Capes, whereas both Celes and Terra can equip a Hero Ring or Ribbon or something else useful in their setups.
>>12302714Or you can just play the game without obsessing over exploiting one bugged mechanic.
>>12302719Ok? Did I touch a nerve or something? I was responding to general recommendations for the Coliseum. Of course in most cases whatever you have on will work if you don't mind occasionally resetting. I'm just showing some ways to make victory more assured.
>>12302724No, I just think answers that don't involve cheap exploits tend to be more interesting.>The coliseum is pretty easy if you make your character effectively invincible with this exploitGreat insight!
>>12302842So what is the issue here, exactly? The fact that it's an exploit, that it's cheap, or that it's both? Either way, it's not even guaranteed to net you a win every time - it will do nothing to protect you against attacks like Step Mine or HyperDrive, for instance. But ok, if we take that out of the running for being too broken, I still like Shadow's setups, which will work on the majority of encounters.
>>12302886>So what is the issue here, exactly?>The fact that it's an exploit, that it's cheap, or that it's both?Both.Exploit means that it's not available to anyone who patches the bug or just doesn't want to abuse glitches.Cheapness means the answer doesn't really offer any insight on how to approach the Colosseum specifically. If they already know how to exploit the evade bug, they don't need to be told that a (nearly) invincible character would work great under those conditions. If they don't, then the topic would be more about the evade bug than the colosseum.Do you just use vanish+doom on every single applicable boss?
>>12289248i genuinely dont know if i even remember wtf relm didwasnt she like some shittier more tedious version of blue mage?i feel like the only game that made blue mage worth using, was the first one it was in, V. and it was so stupidly strong in that game, that its been hopelessly nerfed ever after
>>12302995Relm has two abilities, Sketch (default) and Control (Sketch becomes Control when you equip the coronet).Sketch causes Relm to "sketch" the target creature and use one of its abilities.Control allows Relm to dominate the target and control its actions. So when Relm's turn comes up, she gets a menu of options based on the creature she controlled.I'd say that Relm's abilities are closer to the FF5 Beastmaster than Blue Mage. Either way, Relm is also notable for having the highest base magic stat of any character in the game, as well as access to a lot of good equipment, making her an effective spellcaster even if you don't use her primary abilities.>its been hopelessly nerfed ever afterBlue magic ("enemy skill") was pretty OP in FF7 also. I think it can be strong in FF9 but gaining abilities using "eat" is an obnoxious chore.The main issues with Blue Magic in FF6 is the high MP costs and only Strago can use it (while literally everyone else but Umaro can use regular magic).
>>12302983There is merit to what you say, at least in regards to normal battles, especially if you make a whole party of invincibles. However, my question is, once you know about the bug and in lieu of applying a patch that fixes it, how do you go about avoiding its abuse? Because unlike Vanish/Doom (an insta-win tactic that you can use pretty early on), it's not as clear cut as "just don't use it." Like, do you equip characters while carefully making sure they don't get their MBlock stat too high by avoiding certain equipment combinations (Illumina + Force Armor or Aegis Shield, for instance)? Or is it a matter of just not consciously trying to max it and equipping other useful stuff? If the latter, I can certainly respect that. Still, so much of the end game equipment raises MBlock to the point that it's very easy to get it around 60-70, which will still block a good bunch of attacks, and have good enough defenses to tank what does get through. It does make you actually consider Ribbons and Safety Bits, so there's that, but that's about the extent of it.Now let's say we fix it. What then? As it happens, the four Illumina-wielders can still max or nearly max both Evasion and MBlock, so should we just not consider that setup even though it's now legit because it remains cheap? I'd say it's game because now only one character at a time can wield this, so that's a significant nerf from before where you could have a whole party like this, but it's still possible for other characters to max only one stat or the other without skimping on defenses. Shadow in particular gains big time, as he can max Evasion and still have high Magic defense (give him an Imp's Armor for best results). Would those setups be fine?
>>12303750All that defensiveness in response to a pretty simple point about just answering the fucking question that was asked.>Because unlike Vanish/Doom (an insta-win tactic that you can use pretty early on), it's not as clear cut as "just don't use it."That's not really the point, though. The point is that if someone asks about how to beat a boss battle, "use vanish+doom" maybe isn't the best answer to lead with.So when someone asks how to handle the colosseum, maybe don't lead with "use a 128mblock setup"That's all I'm saying.Not sure why this is triggering such a massive reaction.
>>12304063>Not sure why this is triggering such a massive reactionI'm not the one that initially got pissy about a suggestion for making the Coliseum less of a luck-based crapshoot, because let's face it, that's what it is. And I take issue with you drawing the comparison to Vanish/Doom because it is an all-or-nothing insta-win combo that isn't even applicable to the Coliseum, whereas even with Max MBlock, you can get fucked sideways by unblockable attacks, both in regular battles and boss fights and in the Coliseum, which is why I also brought up some good, interesting alternatives that don't rely on it. And to be frank, the Coliseum fights that will be guaranteed wins with a Max MBlock setup tend to be easy ones in any case. My reasoning, then, is since you have no input in the battles beyond what the character brings in, I figure for those fights you may as well make luck as much of a non-factor as possible, which is why I never have Sabin fight, as he could, and has in my experience, killed himself by using Spiraler. I really don't see what's so wrong about that.
>>12289248Haer'Dalis from bg2. He gets a lot of hate from waifufags because he tries to fuck Aerie but he's super strong and has fun banter with other party members. Great voice actor too.
>>12297450I remember thinking Caith Sith was useless until I discovered the magic of Slots manipulation
>>12304262Been a while since I played but I remember him being some weird bard kit that gave up useful abilities to be a shittier warrior?
>>12304116DIdn't get pissy. Made a subtle point, then clarified it (twice) and you can't stop sperging about it.
>>12304434>Or you can just play the game without obsessing over exploiting one bugged mechanic.You got confrontational first over me suggesting a way to approach the game that you don't approve of.Whatever, man. We're clearly not going to agree or understand each other. Have the last say on the matter if you wish.
>>12304397He gives up some pickpocketing and lore (pretty irrelevant) to become a discount fighter/mage. A worse version of the best class in the game is still pretty damn good. Also as a tiefling he has some really op bonuses for his resistances.
>>12304490I was mildly teasing, /vr/ neighbor.
>>12304262Also because he's an ugly tiefling.Granted, Baldur's Gate has a lot of ugly-ass characters but some people just hate tieflings to begin with.
>>12304286Slots are no fun though
>>12289248i hate her cause she corrupted all the saves on my cartridge and forced me to start the whole game over. she stays on the airship forever.
>>12305684Also I didn't have internet then (it had just started to be a think but parents hadn't bought a computer with a modem yet) so I had to call the 900 number Nintendo Hotline just to find out what was wrong with my game.
>>12305691Sorry but you gotta admit that's funny, I'm laughing my ass off imagining the poor wagie who had to tell the kid who spent money to call the tip line that his save was fucked.
some of strago's better lore abilities require relm to acquire. you have to use sketch on the intangir for example to learn one of its attacks.
>>12306314You mean Step Mine? You can get that from a lot of enemies, and Relm is never needed.
>>12306323In the world of balance? What other creatures use it besides the dinosaur god in the veldt ??
>>12306342Greasemonks, apparently.
>>12304661https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGNYMHdE4ks
>>12306348They do, but you need to confuse them first.
>>12306389Edgar's NoiseBlaster should do, then. Honestly, I underrated that tool so fucking much in my first twenty playthroughs. It works on almost everything until the WoR.
Pokemon Gen 5 thingmons. I honestly like them. I know they might have not been the most original things ever (lantern, balloon, trash bag, ice cone + eyes) but they didn't deserve all the shit they got. Also, it's fun to make a thingmon team for a meme run every once in a while.>>12289248Relm is an amazing mage if you build her though>>12290870At least Cloud got fixed on the remake
>>12306532There was nothing to fix except maybe the materia blade restriction. What did the remake fuck up?
>>12306532>build herlmao
>>12306532She is certainly worth building up for the drive into Kefka's Tower, and she is of course also great in the Fanatics' Tower. In general, though, I'd rather have Terra or Celes on mage duty.
>>12306314It's almost as if the two diminutive characters who have similar stature, have similar colors in their outfits, are (apparently) related to each other, and come into the game at the same time, are additionally written to work well together as a dyad in battle.
>>12289248>Sketch oneshots KatanaSoul>the one time using it glitched my save I would up with 56 Economizers and 47 Genji GlovesIn this house Relm Arrowny is a hero, end of story
>>12306367Still don't care for it
>>12289248Control is just fun to mess with.
>>12306415Pairs perfectly with Locke when you're trying to steal shit, too.
>>12307792They even established the Control to Learning connection in 5. Made learning shit like mighty guard absurdly easier than without.
>>12309459I just wish it and Sketch didn't have a chance to miss or required a piece of headgear just to make it less likely to miss. It should either work or not at all, because when it misses, you have no indication on if it was due to bad luck or because the enemy is unable to be controlled.
>>12310071Also, the two characters naturally appear together in cut scenes throughout the entire game, and it's perfectly natural for the player to form the association that they go together. The association is so strong that (IIRC) when well-informed guides discuss the Ebot's Rock challenge, they will remind the player that you don't actually need to have Relm in the party in order to encounter Hidon and teach Strago Grand Train, the whole point of the dungeon. The player naturally assumes that this may be a requirement-Ebot's Rock itself is in Thamasa's backyard. Further complicating matters, Relm and Strago DO have to be in the party together in order to trigger the opening cutscene with Gungho, which unlocks Ebot's Rock itself. But Relm doesn't have to be in the party for Strago to beat the thing and learn Grand Train. In any case, Relm appears in the "after" cutscene, and confirms Strago's "I caught the big fish!" account to Gungho, making it feel like Relm herself was there with him, as an eyewitness. I tried a replay and I think the hard stop is that if you feed the coral to the chest and Strago isn't in the party, it won't budge even if you had enough.Even though you don't have to bring Relm along for this one, I just do it anyway because it's logical for the above story reasons. I played out pic related with an old save to remind myself and it went smoothly, no curve balls. I just switched everyone onto basic weapons and had everyone whack the back Hidonite (the hardest element) with basic physical attacks for a bit until it was down, then Hidon cast the thing, everyone was standing, then you one-shot the undead enemy with a Fenix Down.
>>12305684>she corrupted all the saves on my cartridgethat's part of the fun. having her in your party is like playing russian roulette. that bug is irrelevant now that we've got save states though.
>>12295350She got what she deserved anyways.
>>12310548>shitskin humor
>>12310460It took me until like my third or fourth playthrough to realize what the whole Hidon thing was about, as I usually never went back to Thamasa in the WoB after Kefka invades, so I never talked to Gungho, and even when I did go back once and saw him, I didn't have Strago on hand so I didn't trigger the extra dialogue showing Strago's insecurity and Gungho's contempt. So the whole sequence in the WoR would usually feel out of left field for me, but I did it anyway because why not? Annoying ass dungeon, though.
>>12291987>despite Marle and Frog both being considered on the low end of characterThis is just such a bizarre thing to say because Chrono Trigger is so easy it literally doesn't matter who you put in your party. Like do autists actually get anxious or something? "Oh no, I checked the tier list and Marle is only a B! I-I'm not gonna win the game at this rate!!"So weird, man. Who obsesses over this stuff? I put Marle in my team cause she's a pretty blonde girl and I got all 13 endings to this game or however many.
>>12312351People usually need anchors in their parties, even when the game doesn't. It could be something like always having at least one multi-target healer or elemental coverage, but yeah, the game isn't hard enough to stress on it. Just becomes a matter of who people gravitate to
>>12312351Maybe try thinking about the topic for more than 30 seconds before making a post about it. See if you can figure out a reasonable answer to your question. (And no, "other people are retarded but I'm not" is the incorrect answer. If that's what comes into your head and you're unable to shake it, rest assured that you will never not be a dumber and less interesting person than that other anon posting about his Chrono Trigger party.
>>12312351Yeah, the game is too easy for it to matter (same with Final Fantasies 6 through 9, really), but it's still true that some characters are indeed better than others. Nothing weird about acknowledging that.
People really didn’t know how good they had it back when they turned “Navi is annoying” into one of the most overused game-related jokes of the 2000s (up there with “what if Mario mushrooms were psychadelics?”).If you’ve been unfortunate enough to play something like God of War Ragnarok or Metroid Prime 4, you know that companion characters in games have gotten so very much worse. Nowadays they actually really do never shut up—a false accusation that was made towards Navi—and they will literally solve the puzzles for you if you take a few seconds too long. That’s not even getting into how bad the writing is and how annoying they are personality-wise.
