It was better than Doom. Wish it had a stronger legacy.
>>12296207Heretic's level design and aesthetics knocked Doom out of the park.
>>12296207>Wish it had a stranger legacy Because it wasn't better than Doom
>bro imagine Doom except the enemies are twice as tanky and the music now sucks
>>12296263To be fair, Doom 2 did add the SSG.
>>12296265and it's missing on half of the levels if you pistol start
>>12296207>>12296214nope. doom is way better, big part of it is just pacing and level design. Heretic plays very different. The maps are longer, slower, way more mazey... lots of running around trying to remember which switch opened what. Doom 1, Doom 2, and most WADs are way tighter and more focused. Even when Doom maps are big, they usually keep pushing you forward and the combat is always the point. Doom series feels fast and aggressive. Heretic and hexen series kinda feels like it’s dragging its feet a lot of the time.Combat is another hugee gap. in doom you can instantly read enemies and fights are all about movement, pressure, and positioning. it gets really fast and clean. Heretic leans way more on tanky enemies, floaty projectiles, and just wearing stuff down, which takes the edge off. Doom fights feel sharp and deliberate. Heretic fights often just feel kinda soft and enemies are really spongy as others have said.
>>12296263>enemies are twice as tankyDoom regularly spams enemies that take 4+ rocket shots. Every enemy in Heretic goes down in 3 shots or less except the Maulotaur.
>>12296298maybe on easy difficulty when you have tome of power? But on harder difficulties, with your normal elven wand you're looking at Gargoyle (small flying shit)About 6–8 shots - this is the “basic fodder” enemy but already overstays its welcome.Gargoyle (bigger flying thing)Around 10–12 shots Same enemy, just wastes more time.Golem (axe / mace)Roughly 8–10 shots Early-game enemy that already feels spongey as fuck.Compare these normal fodder enemies on hard difficulties to Dooms fodder, and the difference is gigantic.
>>12296291>Heretic fights often just feel kinda soft and enemies are really spongy as others have said.Thats because the game showers you in tomes. You can only carry one between levels for a reason, use them shits. Surprisingly no mention of how knockback factors into combat, and I honestly wouldn't say maps are any worse than Doom 2. Most are fine, some are great, while some are shit.
>>12296307>Compare these normal fodder enemies on hard difficulties to Dooms fodder, and the difference is gigantic.Doom combat is about clearing the area and moving on, Heretics is about controlling space and resource management. They're different focuses, while which one is better is going to be subjective. Things as simple as even having an inventory system change a lot more than these comparisons give credit, especially since some items like the time bomb and tome are designed specifically to make you more powerful than most of Doom's weapons, albeit far more randomized in damage. Isn't the powered mace technically the strongest official weapon on the engine?
Yeah I like Heretic a lot, playing the new remasters is great. But when I have 20 minutes to burn I opt for Doom games instead.
>>12296307I was talking about the Phoenix Rod when I said 3 shots or less. I play max difficulty on Heretic. Zombie guys definitely go down quick but I'm pretty sure the other Doom monsters take a good while to kill with a pistol.
>>122962072.5D slop
>>12297034>Good game is slopThat's edgy wow
>>12297423>heretic>good
>>12296291I got filtered after hunting switches for 3 hours
>>12296207Y'all, Heretic is great. Calling it better than Doom, whether that is true or not, is unnecessary. I believe we can pick out flaws on each for weeks if we were forced to.OP is right about one thing: it did deserve a stronger legacy. I have the thinnest ray of hope that the recent remaster will spur development of a follow-up.Or, maybe John Romero will have go through a phase and shit it one day, since he mused about a follow-up to Heretic and Rise of the Triad together. Seriously, I want that fucking game. Wouldn't be as bad as Daikatana obviously.
>>12296291I got filtered even with cheats as kid.
>>12298606>>12297648How the fuck do you get filtered playing Heretic? If you can beat Doom, you can beat Heretic. It'd be fair to say this stuff if it were about Hexen or Hexen II though.
>>12298636Maybe it was Hexen, bruh it was 30 years ago. It was Doom with a wizard and I got filtered.
You have to be literally gay to not like Heretic/Hexen or to set Doom against Heretic as if you can only like one.SUperfaggy players in this thread. >>12298606Kids playing heretic/hexen will get filtered by the mazes more than the combat, although the combat can be tricky too
>>12298668I sucked a dick once, and I love all 3.>>12298640Go play one. If it doesn't quite play like what you remembered, then keep playing it. Heretic won't filter you any harder than Doom will, especially if you use the tomes of power.
>>12298694>I sucked a dick once, and I love all 3.A guy's dick or ladyboy? Huge difference. I've been with ladyboys in SE Asia and it's basically like having sex with a girl who happens to have a dick. Now if you sucked a guys dick that's cringe and gay, something wrong with you lmao
>>12298694Nah bro, you've got the boomer shooters under control. I'll go have sex or something.
>>12298718>I'll go have sex or something.We all know you won't
doom is better just shut the fuck up
>Heretic 1As a 10-year-old kid, I was hooked on the mere gimmick of the weapon swinging when you run. Silly, I know.
>>12298776Nah. Heretic mogs.
>>12298771It's true. I'm Suffering from Success and now I need pills so I have to plan it.
>>12298771I am actually giving it a go, not just being a dick.
>>12298771Def do not remember this game. I remember picking a warrior, Wizard and something else like a ranger. I'm guessing it's Hexen.I'm filtered can't figure out how to get the crossbow.
>>12298391>Rise of the Triad That game had very impressive design in some maps. The wide-scale level geometry transformation (you hit a switch and the whole level shifted walls & stuff) is something I haven't seen in many other shooters.
>>12296207>Wish it had a stronger legacy.so go make a heretic map
>>12298854Replay the first level and scour the map for the crossbow. You'll find it, the map is very small.
I don't know that it is better than Doom (1). I certainly like it better than any other Doom game though.
>>12298854>I'm filtered can't figure out how to get the crossbow.Secret door in that second pillar room. Pretty easy to find. But there's like a million crossbows in the game, you'll find one eventually.
>>12298714Transwoman that barely passed. I swallowed once, they did twice. Felt dem tiddies. They ghosted me after, a shame really. I'd have impregnated that asshole. Now I'm engaged to a ciswoman and trying to impregnate her shame cave soon.
>>12298854Just carry on if you didn't get that crossbow. It's in every level, they're all designed to be played wand-start if desired.Glad I was correct, figured you were playing Hexen back then.
>>12296207it really isn't, the enemies are all way too tanky and annoying to fight
>>12296271>pistol startonly deranged turbo autists do that.
>>12300847And only children aren't old enough to remember that when you died, you were put into one if you didn't reload a save.
>>12300847>only deranged turbo autists do that.This. I don't get the appeal at all. You should be rewarded and keep your weapons for all the progress you made.
>>12296207>It was better than Doom.It most certainly was not, by even the most permissive interpretations. It's fine to like a game, but really can we dispense with the hyperbole? Heretic has never been "better" than Doom.Heretic had some interesting aesthetics, but its level design was pure slog with no consistent sense of pacing or how architecture geometry integrates with monster design to produce interesting unique encounters, coupled with overall poor tuning of the monsters themselves. This can be said about some Doom maps, but it can be said about all Heretic maps. The Tome of Power and item system were interesting editions but cannot match the overall punchiness and balance of Doom's arsenal (even if Doom had some imperfect redundancies). >Wish it had a stronger legacy.If you want to talk about legacy you should have brought up Heretic TWO, which was a much, much stronger title. While it too lagged in the later areas, that game innovated new mechanics in a way that paid off well and are very fondly remembered, though one could make the argument that Heretic II walked so Jedi Knight II could run.Then of course there's also Hexen, Heretic's first kind-of-sequel, which innovated even more. That game, frankly, DID have aesthetics that blew both of the other two away, but it carried, in fact even magnified the same problems of slog and poor balance. I'd say Hexen's first two hubs are fantastic but after that you may as well just quit the game. Yet it's at least better to be hated than indifferent, so I keep coming back to Hexen. I love it AND I hate it. Heretic? I sunk quite a few eager hours into it in my youth, but I honestly wouldn't be bothered if I never got around to another playthrough in my life. And approaching midlife crisis years, that statement really starts to carry some serious weight.
>>12300865Only deranged autists didn't save their game. Face it anon, you're not winning this argument. Nobody played like retards as children, as you apparently insist you did. Trying to claim there's some correct way you hAvE tO pLaY tHe GaMe is just insecurity for a desperate need to form a personality out of moralistic video game handwringing (kind of the dumbest thing one can think of, no?)
>>12301845*additions
>>12301846>Only deranged autists didn't save their game.You seem pretty obsessed, anon. Get the results of your own tism test back recently?>Face it anon, you're not winning this argument.Laughing at someone for being neurotic about people accepting their loss and restarting a level at a handicap isn't an argument, but sure.
>>12301997>loser just wants to play retarded shitpost rhetoric games nowThey give up their "arguments" so quickly. Course he didn't even have one this time, but whatever.You're the one who's whining that /other people/ "aren't playing games right", and that this makes you unreasonably upset for some reason. You're the only one with a problem. It's your problem, no one else's. You can go on trying to protect your shredded ego now with more sassy zesty shitposts if you want since there really isn't anything more to be done but wait till your overheated amygdala cools down and you can come up with something more interesting to talk about.
>>12302001How does one argue about the proliferation of players who took their pistol restart vs the ones who brushed aside their tears looking for their last save file to load? Your argument only really makes sense assuming modern source ports are the only way anyone played Doom, which is why it is silly.>You're the one who's whining that /other people/ "aren't playing games right",When did I say that? You know more than one anon can disagree with you on things, right? I'm not the guy you were arguing with, put it back in the holster champ. Might want to talk to someone in your life when they wake up friend, sorry you can't handle bants.
>>12296207I wished it would have more enemy types and weapons. You were mostly fighting against same enemies and while using same guns for most of the game. Bosses were also a joke. I still enjoyed it more than any of the Doom games.
>>12302006>i'm desperately unhappy that people won't play games the way i need them to to compensate for my own insecurityi just don't care that you're having a bad time lol
>>12302016I don't even pistol start, but I can see you're doing that "merely pretending" shit now so I'll leave you to it.
>>12302020kek didn't realize this was going to work you up so much
>>12301845Heretic II was kino, I haven't played it in almost 20 years but remember it very fondly.
>>12301845I don't think I replayed a game more times than Heretic and I discovered it only 3 years ago. Every few months I feel the need to play through all of it. It's just that unique and well crafted. Nothing scratches that itch for me like Heretic.>Hexen's first two hubs are fantastic but after that you may as well just quit the gameWastelands and Caves of Circe are a total drag, I always groan when I have to replay them. But Darkmere is one of the coolest maps in any game ever. My favorite hub is the 4th one.
>>12296207I liked it. On the other hand, fuck Hexen
>>12302031You are trying to one-up a person on an anonymous imageboard
>>12296207>>12296214They are both good even though I do also wish it had a stronger legacy. But still its definitely a great Doom-Clone.
>>12302856Hexen is much better
>>12306269Hexen is not better it's just very different. Both are amazing.
>>12305637Games with no legacy are easier to gatekeep.
>>12308492signalboosting this
>>12298896A lot of potential there, doom could have used some of that horizontal map transformation. It had vertical stuff though.
>>12296207if a heretic 3 happens then i hope it's a character action game instead of a soulslike or another doom clone.it feels more like a natural progression from heretic 2 being an action game.
>>12308953you are grounded
>>12296207I would argue that it doesn't have a stronger legacy because its not better than Doom
>>12311024Doom was so popular because it came first. If Heretic came out first it would be treated as iconically as Doom is now.
Whackest Them Offest
