>>12310820
good fan porn where samus gets a sexalicious toothed pussy and fucked and banged and woah mama I'm hard now that's good actually you should look into it

>>12310820
It has all of the things you mentioned it just does a great job at not letting the player get aimlessly lost or have to do excessive backtracking, both are always negatives of the genre.

>>12310956
>not letting the player get aimlessly lost or have to do excessive backtracking
Exactly, It’s not a metroidvania

Filtered

>>12310956
Metroidvanias with high quality level design doesn't actually have that much backtracking.
When it has, it's usually using branching paths or shortcuts.
>>12310820
It's a good game, despite not being a semi non linear Metroid.

Zero Mission, though different from the original game, at least does a similar approach to Super Metroid.
The only downside being the Chozo Statues showing an objective marker on the map.

Not quite related but I loved ZM and recently ran through AM2R in one go. Despite that I continuously bounce off SM. Twice I got stuck finding the wrecked ship, but I reluctantly searched where the hell to go next, and after that I'm met with a sand zone that makes me feel like I'm not using the gravity suit I've just got.

I get from a at-the-time perspective and exploration point of view why it's a great game, I just feel like a pleb for not liking it.

What other metroidvania's should I try based on ZM? I've played Aria of Sorrow (bit too combat focused imo) and Guacamelee but not much else.

>>12311128
>I just feel like a pleb
you are

>>12311128
Not retro, but try Dread

>>12311186
Dread on dread mode is pretty cool lmao (everything insta kills you in one hit)
Based!

>>12311128
Cave Story is an absolute classic, and deeply connected to 4chan culture. It's story focused like Fusion but it opens up quite well past a certain point. Good challenge, good vibe, run n gun. Give that one a shot if you haven't.

>>12310820
>Why is this one considered a good Metroid?
lol idk man
its genuinely the least metroid-y of all metroid games. which is a pretty bad thing if you like metroid
id rather play a middling romhack than replay fusion tbph

>>12311128
>I just feel like a pleb for not liking it.
it aint just a feeling
you are

>>12311061
Came here to post this

>>12311128
Metroid Planets, Metroid Dread, Environmental Station Alpha, Hero Core, Axiom Verge.

Highly recommend playing hacks as well. For Super Metroid hacks, try Subversion, Vitality, Hyper Metroid Super, Super Junkoid DX, Ancient Chozo, Project Base.

For Zero Mission hacks, I recommend Spooky Mission 1 and 2, Desolation, and Scrolls 6.

>>12310820
fusion contains the micro of metroid. within a given area you are going to explore, have to navigate your way through the same laybrinth of hidden destructable blocks and paths, figure out mini upgrade puzzles littered throughout the stages. the caveat is of course that it's missing the macro, you no longer need to figure out where you should go within the entire world map(there are a few exceptions in fusion when you do this).
I think the premise of it being a little mission based horror/thriller game is effective enough and the general quality is high enough that people give it a pass as a one off bastardization of the metroid formula. it was 2002, the first portable entry, and nintendo subsequently corrected with a more traditional super metroid like game in zero mission.

>>12311061
so what you are telling me is you metroid fans all have been filtered by other-m?

>>12310820
This is the only Metroid game that actually feels scary.

>>12312726
How come? You must shit your pants playing RE3 which wasn’t scary either

>>12311425
Depends on what you're looking for from the series. It dropped a lot of gameplay direction that the series was evolving into, but in terms of atmosphere, isolation, and urgency it was pretty much the peak of the series. Complemented Zero Mission well in having a good option for each style on the GBA, and thats coming from someone who doesn't really like playing it.

>>12310820
It's a shit game and I have always said the exact same thing basically.

The boss designs were just bad too. like Nightmare, which basically was just try to avoid this basically undodgeable thing then simply missile spam him in the face until he dies. Can't believe people think this is a good game.

>>12310956
No it just directs the player where to go. Parts of the game you saw were inaccessible, that become accessible once you have X power up, are in fact not accessible again, until the game walks you through that area again. So you have to just wait.

>>12312853
nightmare is a test of your ability to use the space jump

>>12312924
But you don't need to use space jump to kill him?

File: file.png (1.2 MB, 1127x680)

1.2 MB PNG

Btw the ending monologue was more cringe than anything in Prime 4

>>12312961
yeah on normal you can eventually brute force your way through ignoring that particular skill expression, that's true for most of the boss fights in the series, you were still wrong about him being undodgable.

>>12312968
it wasn't voice acted so no.

>>12312974
You can no-damage him without space jump.
First phase ends almost immediately, even if you get hit it doesn't matter.
Second phase he dies from 1 barrage of missiles from the left wall.
There's no hard mode in non-jap version and jap hardmode doesn't increase boss hp or decrease your damage.

>>12312857
>>12311101
Metroidvanias need to find a way to avoid empty hallways, backtracking and switch hunting while facing no concrete risk. There should be harsher environmental risk and stronger enemies that kill you in a 2 or 3 hits. Even Dread which is great suffers from sections that are you just blasting through hallways melting everything or having so much HP that enemies don't matter much. I'd rather see combat as a big thread rather than just the time sink of switch hunting and backtracking

>>12312997
nothing that you said changes the fact that he has a pattern you are very obviously meant to dodge with the space jump.

>>12313001
They don't, that what makes them metroidvanias. Going back and destroying shit that you were previously struggling with, getting rewarded for that and feeling your power grow is great. And that's why Fusion sucks
If you don't like it you should play any action platformer like megaman or shovel knight instead.

>>12312507
yes. i enjoyed other m.
narrative keks said it was bad and everyone else parroted that.
i also enjoyed metroid, super metroid, metroid fusion and metroid prime.
i find metroid zero mission good but didn't enjoy it as much as the others because of the heavier physics. samus falls like a rock in that game compared to every other game.

>>12310820
>shitty proto-soulslike bosses
what does this even mean

>>12310820
>Why is this one considered a good Metroid?
Because all the 10 year olds who played it as their first Metroid are now 30 years old and dominate the conversation about what's good. They're blinded by childhood nostalgia and/or generally just have bad taste, but either way they're wrong and dumb.

>>12310820
This is the only metroid game with good bosses.
>shitty proto-soulslike
"Soulslike" is code for "I'm bad at this game"

>>12313052
Why would anyone ever even THINK about calling Metroid Fusion a soulslike? It has exactly zero soulslike elements.

>>12311053
So metroidvania's are intentionally shitty?

>>12313029
>narrative keks said it was bad and everyone else parroted that.
Because it is bad, it's basically a dogshit Ninja Gaiden, but limited to range and watered down to GoWbabbies.
Also the writing is fucking terrible, like Sonic Team tier writing. It tries too hard to be j-drama or tokusatsu (jap capeshit) because it's literally Sakuckmoto fighting with Team Ninja on the direction of the game with unresolved or immediately dismissed plotlines all over the place.

It's shouldn't be a fucking surprise it's this dogshit because Nintendo fucked up on not having a ready story for Hollywood to make that rumored Metroid movie.

>>12313041
That's hilarious considering how much push back GBA stuff like Golden Sun get nowadays.
Millennials shat on that game super hard because they parrot from the somethingawful lparchive. Never mind the game does have glaring issues, but remember almost every translated jarpig got this same issue too.

>>12313037
"The bosses are le too hard"
This guy would have rage quitted at Super Metroid Ridley.

>>12313001
If that's what you want you should play Hollow Knight and Silksong.
Despite /v/ hating it and the subreddit being annoying, it's actually a very polished, high quality game.
I finished HK before even became a hit and it has become one of my favorites Metroidvanias.
Also played Silksong when it came out and imo it's even better than HK.
You'll still have plenty of challenge even after you upgrade everything.

It's not retro though.
If you want something more retro, you should play Hero Core.
It's a free shmup Metroidvania game with very interesting level design, and it avoids the backtracking by letting you teleport instantly to any room you're already visited.
The downside is that you can cheat most bosses by teleporting before you die, though the boss health regenerate if you do so.

Creator of the game also made a 2D System Shock like called Iji, one of the best indies I've played.

>>12313107
All fusion bosses are easier than most Super Metroid bosses

>>12313063
No, just not for you. Play action games with powerups and stages like megaman or contra. They don't have anything you don't like about metroidvanias.

>>12313082
>Millennials shat on that game super hard
The vast majority of millennials also weren't 10 years old in 2004, either. The millennials you remember complaining were the older ones who are culturally irrelevant today, not the kids I'm referring to.

We weren't so lucky to get zero mission and fusion at roughly the same time

Fusion is fine considering it's a gba game and intended to be portable it deserves some grace

>>12313198
People shit on Metroid 2 for ages disregarding how much it set up for future games in the series, and how awesome it was for its time on the game boy because the first time they played it was on an emulator decades later. Then they lapped up that garbage remake that Nintendo shit out while C&Ding a vastly superior fan remake. Don't expect people to appreciate shit.

>>12310820
control is tight, sharp, gets everything done except bomb/wall jumping
GREAT boss fights, second best in the series after Dread
great atmospheric horror, SAX encounters are still tense and shocking providing you dont remember every time theyre about to appear
>good music
decent story if you ignore being locked in nav rooms with exposition dumps. and the fact that the GF never has to pay for locking her in the space station. or cloning metroids
>b-but it was a rogue faction
fuck off

>>12310820
Its one of the only GBA games I know of with a soundtrack that actually sounds good on the GBA speakers.

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>>12310820
Metroid is a game promoting gender ideology, Samus was a troon from the start, look up what the devs have to say. Art of her depicts her at 5 foot 7, which is troon territory. And we're supposed to allow our children to play these games. It's time to rise, rise, rage.

>>12313370
No she was never a troon.
That was a joke told by Sakamoto in a interview, where he laughed immediately after.

Also frequently denied by other Metroid developers.

So your attempt at forcing this bullshit up has failed.

>>12313370
Correct sentiment troons are anti-gamer and anti-life. They wreck every community and project they enter. But Samus is a biological female.

>>12313016
>You're reward is repeating previous content you did a few hours ago, but now it's mindlessly easy.
This is why I hate rpg elements and metroidvania design, it literally undermines action gaming fundamentally.

>>12313001
So you want shitty ass SOULSLIKE bullshit?

HK and Silksong are BAD GAMES

>>12313539
Just make a metroidvania with more enemy density, enemy threat, fewer HP pickups, and powerups that don't trivialize entire areas making backtracking feel tedious and shallow

>Soulslike??!!!!
No, more like metal slug, contra, or ghouls n ghosts but with branching paths and more complicated level design....that would be better

>>12313536
CotM handled it pretty well. Each cycle unlocks a new class archetype when beating it with the previous one, making them harder than the previous one and not carrying over anything. The subweapon one in particular pretty much forces you to not just cross spam constantly since you're weak as fuck without them.

>>12313001
go play metroid samus returns (yes, the 3ds remake) and come back.
you'll find that having to care about minor enemies is annoying and disincentivizes exploration.

>>12313619
The fact they really want you to use that flow breaking parry mechanic constantly really doesn't help either. Fuck ninty for trying to kill AM2R because of that dogshit.

>>12313631
>>12313619
>>12313631
Samus returns is fine iirc...haven't played it seriously in ages. Was the parry limited to standing still? Because Dread has parry and it simply makes the game flow better since you can rub/dash + parry small enemies and parrying boss attacks is cool too

>>12313752
I mean the game not slowing down for the dramatic parry effect every 5 seconds has a better flow, but I get zoomies need the doom 2016 glory kill style bullshit to give them breathers constantly instead of maintaining full control of movement.

>>12312968
No it fucking wasn't bro. Fuck hyperbole.

>>12313910
hey unc, you probably don't know how to play these games anymore.
parry, when used correctly, saves you time, specially against armored units and fat units that take several shots or missiles to kill. Instead of wasting missiles or spamming regular shots a well placed parry can turn a 10 second fight into a 2 second fight.
Also instead of stopping your forward movement to dodge attacks, to kite enemies, or stand and aim at flying enemies a well placed parry stops you for barely a second, weakens/stuns the enemy and lets you blow them up and continue forward much faster.

The parry window isn't even that tight, it's not sekiro or 3rd strike, it's very generous even retarded old boomers should be able to use it to save time

>>12313029
>i enjoyed other m.
are you sure you are a metroid fan?
maybe you just have brain problems?

>>12310820
The only good Metroids are the original, Metroid 2, the SNES game, and Zero Mission.

>>12310820
babby gen z played it first so it's the best to them

>>12314015
oh yes parry
quick time event 2.0
more console slop mechanics
just what we needed

>>12314015
It only "saves you time" because the game is designed to make it do so by incorporating elements that slow you down specifically so that you will use it. The series has been doing that from the very start with shit like having to freeze metroids before shattering them with missiles, they could have easily just made them not require that, but by forcing the mechanic on the player it remove the alternative playstyle approach. You even pointed this out in that very post by admitting
>specially against armored units and fat units that take several shots or missiles to kill.
Its creating a problem to sell a solution, the same as it was with glory kills in nudoom.

>>12313210
people shit on metroid 2 because the controls are a buggy mess

>>12314781
freezing metroid is fine because you can do it right away and doesn't restrict your movement.
the problem with parries is that you have to waste time just standing there waiting for the enemy to attack you (and iirc a specific attack for some enemies).

>>12314923
It was on the game boy, it was pretty common for controls to be a "buggy mess." It was perfectly fine for its time and medium, and evolved the formula a lot from the original, while setting up a lot of shit for Super and beyond. Most people's dislike of the game comes from their own impatience and inflated expectations, which AM2R addressed a lot better than the official remake, hence why it frightened ninty.
>>12314936
Oh, I don't have any issues with freezing metroids, as it was a clearly designed "mini-boss" approach. You only fought them at the end of the game, and they were essentially a test of applying elements you collected into the gameplay loop. It was actually very good design. As for parries, I'm in complete agreement, they're focused on spectacle and visceral feedback despite them being at odds with gameplay flow and variety.

>>12314936
You don't waste time to parry, read >>12314015 this guy explained it well. Parry is usually weaved in-between your shots against higher HP enemies or whole aiming at fast moving fliers in Samus returns. But in Dread you can parry while moving and it just improves gameplay completely.
Only scenario it wastes your time is if you miss your parry which happens if u never got good at the game

>>12315307
You're missing the point. If the game has to slow down for your super cool ultra immersive camera panning interaction pausing bullshit, it is inherently slower than just letting you just shoot enemies while running toward and past them. It only becomes "faster" when the alternative is brought down to its level and made slower by comparison. If an enemy has a shield and needs a melee attack to knock it away before shooting, you don't say that its faster than them not having a shield and just being able to blast them for the same amount of damage. The comparison isn't between how it works in the same game, its about comparing it to other games in the series where there is no need for the parry mechanic in the first place. Think of shit like Megaman games before the charge shot and how much damage normal shots did to bosses compared to later games. Parrying is designed to give a specific feedback response to the player that you performed something cool and impactful, but the impact's necessity was introduced specifically to sell that feedback response.

>>12315316
But every good metroidvania has enemy variety; including fat, armored enemies, or enemies with a weak point, or gimmick that requires you to stop moving and use a different strat besides holding down fire and forward and melting everything effortlessly. Parry gives you a way to deal with enemy variety, it's skill based, yeah it looks cool and is satisfying to pull off, you get punished for using it poorly. It only becomes a time waster if you use it excessively against weak enemies that could die in one or two shots...

If you watch speedrunners they use parry sparingly and simply as a way to save time, because the game throws different enemies at you not everything dies instantly while you run forward spamming shot or missiles.

>>12315316
> If an enemy has a shield and needs a melee attack to knock it away before shooting, you don't say that its faster than them not having a shield and just being able to blast them for the same amount of damage
And this would limit enemy variety of you can deal with everything by just shooting while moving.
>Mega man
Metroidvanias aren't mega man or metal slug, there are tons of things that stop your movement and also force you to run back, they have puzzles and switches, long empty hallways, and aren't pure action games by any stretch. So adding a parry mechanic meant to be used strategically against certain enemies is perfectly fine, even if it filters boomers with poor reaction skill and pattern recognition

>>12310820
>Metroidvanias
You mean JetSetWillyVania

>>12315336
>But every good metroidvania has enemy variety; including fat, armored enemies, or enemies with a weak point, or gimmick that requires you to stop moving and use a different strat besides holding down fire and forward and melting everything effortlessly.
Little bit of an oversimplification to misrepresent progressing at a brisk pace to an endless runner, but in previous games between the charge shot/upgrades and the ice beam, you were rarely forced to slow down or stop unless it was a specific encounter, like doors that locked until enemies were defeated or spider ball shit (which is another example, although its expansion of exploration makes it a more positive version similar to ice beam platforming.) There is a middle ground that the series excelled at and many of the games that focused on the castlevania half of the formula moved away from.
That said, I don't really care about what "every good metroidvania" does when talking about the series that is half of the category's name. Iterative works will have their own differences, that says absolutely nothing about one of the core series needing to mimic those sensibilities. Remember, this formula murdered a fan project that stuck to the sensibilities of Super and Zero Mission because it was considered a threat to their profit potential.
>it's skill based
Its really not, but its designed to feel like it is. The timing window is extremely forgiving compared to most games that use parrying as a mechanic, especially fighting games. I'd genuinely love to know the frame data for it in either game, can't find it anywhere.
Point is, parrying isn't even a bad mechanic, its just one that the game formula was changed too much to emphasize, especially in stuff like boss fights, to give people the same type of response that flashing lights in slot machines do. Its more performative than meaningful, and detracts from the experience in anyone who doesn't get hard over it.

>>12315352
>And this would limit enemy variety of you can deal with everything by just shooting while moving.
Bitch when did I say Metroid is supposed to be an endless runner? Stop repeating the hyperbolic shit.
>Metroidvanias aren't mega man or metal slug, there are tons of things that stop your movement and also force you to run back, they have puzzles and switches, long empty hallways, and aren't pure action games by any stretch. So adding a parry mechanic meant to be used strategically against certain enemies is perfectly fine, even if it filters boomers with poor reaction skill and pattern recognition
The irony is that you don't realize that the parry mechanic was implimented to make it more like a "pure action game" by giving you a scripted response to things instead of actually having to worry about things like movement, evasion, and emergent design in encounters. It turns those things into a "do x when y" formula while things like boss fights become more braindead despite your personal perception of "strategy"
>even if it filters boomers with poor reaction skill and pattern recognition
Massive projection, try playing fighting games with strict timings for a lot of their gameplay, including their parry systems.

Why are we even talking about this shit, they're not even retro. Fuck off.

>>12315381
>>12315371
>It's braindead
>It's le bad because....it just is!
>Makes boss fights braindead!!
How? Statements with no argument or support.

>When X just do Y!! Parry bad see??
Talk about oversimplification lol

>Try play fighting games with parry
I play 3rd strike almost every day

>>12315352
that is all true.
problem with samus return parry is that you have to parry every enemy in the game or you do pitiful damage.
that bat that requires a single shot on every other game? you have to parry it, shoot it like 10 times or use missiles that are kinda precious because you need them for metroids.
just ignore it? no chance because they are in the way or ruin your jumps when platforming.
doesn't help that damage upgrades come late in the game, so usually your power level is the same as your enemies.

>>12313619
Remember when they invented the Screw Attack in NES Metroid to precisely help with that? Meanwhile that shit game and Dread just introduce fucking parrying.

>>12313539
They aren't soulslikes (actually much harder) and aren't bad.
Git gud.

>>12312924
I just went on the ladder and shot him in the face. That's why the ladder is there. It was a stupid boss like most in the game. Cool art, bad gameplay.

>>12312974
I honestly didn't care enough and simply wanted to complete the game as quickly as possible because it was boring and so thoroughly unenjoyable. Also you need to hit this guy an obnoxious number of times (another symptom of bad design) so that made the most sense. The last boss was similar, in fact most were.

>>12313123
Fusion bosses are basically get a lucky hit to freeze then enemy then missile rape their weak spot, which you also need to hit to freeze them. Or some combination of get in just the right spot and missile spam. It was gay and the controls were clearly too clumsy for how fast some of them moved. the X-Samus or whatever the fuck it was at the end was the only actually OK boss, sort of. It has a very easy pattern you can easily kill him without taking any damage but you still need to get the timing right and manages to be fun.

>>12314952
wrong - controls that dont make sense are not the same as standards changing
it was not "not used WASD yet" or some other shenanigans
it was the wall climbing was not well thought out and never worked properly

metroid is the linux of gaming
it gets way too many excuses from fans for its shortcomings
but all the fans are then confused why its not a widely recognized and loved thing

>>12311346
That isn't a Metroid or vania for all things considered though.
More of a Simon's Quest type of thing

>>12313134
Gen X but millennials are still doing the same thing they were doing today

>>12316860
>I AM SILLY

File: KILL YOURSELF YOU STUPID HAG.jpg (174 KB, 1153x885)

174 KB JPG

>>12315393
>I play the most dogslop Street Fighter almost every day

>>12317725
Which one should he play?

>>12317720
it's true

>>12315386
As much as I agree with you, he does have a point.

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>>12316860

>>12318427
new turf

>>12310820
i just like it

It's the best one, sequence breaking is for trannies.

>>12317725
Please tell me the name of the anime from which you acquired this screenshot

>>12320685
Hi zoomer
it's slayers

>>12310820
never understood why people said its linear. its pretty much the same formular as super metroid. game throws you in a set of rooms with no escape until you find an item/boss/switch to progress. fusion had adam and shit shoved in to guide you. later on the game pretty much opens up and you end up exploring the whole map for items just like in every metroid. the thing about metroidvanias is that the optimal/correct path is usually the one where you go from mainpath to mainpath without any detours. as long as you dont have all the tools for exploration you are wasting your time anyway.

>>12311061
This. Fusion is great.

>>12321129
Linearity isn't a binary thing, games can be more or less linear than one another. Fusion hard locks its progression more than the other games in the series did, which mostly affects sequence breaking, but particularly railroads the player a lot more than the others. Even games like Metroid 2 had more non-linearity in how each section you were forced to go to had more variety in how it could be approached.

>>12314923
There's issues with Metroid 2 but controls aren't one of them, I don't see how you can say that. It's hard to go back to 1 after playing 2.

>>12321129
fusion completely lacks navigation at the level of where do I go? what do I do? am I in the right area? in fusion you always know that you're roughly on the right track
>ok I just need to feel out this handful of corridors and I'll find the objective
>ok I know I'm done here besides optional collectables, time for adam to tell me where to go
super doesn't have you backtracking across the map much but just a bit of obfuscation there goes a long way to make navigation feel like a more substantial process.

>>12323056
tldr
people aren't really complaining about linearity as much as the navigation puzzle aspect of the game being streamlined.

>>12323060
>the navigation puzzle aspect of the game being streamlined
...with linearity.