>>12324430
nah, it's just a case of Sonic fans being butthurt because their series didn't get a Saturn game. Nights is better than Crash but not as good as Super Mario 64, a perfectly respectable game.

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>>12324434
lol, lmao, even.

It doesn't really get much scrutiny or ridicule outside of here does it? For that reason, combined with the fact that sonic team failed to make any sonic for the saturn, and that this is kind of what we got in its place, yeah I think it deserves it.

>>12324430
Yes. Dreamcast at least had soul caliber for it's NA launch. Nights is an embarassment of a killer app. It embodies everything wrong with the Saturn, Sega and Humanity all in one game.

>>12324464
$299. that's what it all comes down to

It would make for a pretty cool pack in with the 3d pad, which is what it was. But as for being THE game for the system outside of virtua fighter? Yeah. no.

Gamers have a baby duck syndrome pretty hard. Once they've seen something that they like, it's never going to end. You've gotta understand that the people who made Sonic were young adults that had already made a bunch of other games, and the idea of making Sonic for the rest of their lives probably wasn't something they were thinking about or desired. In the early 90's, the idea of a game series existing for 20 or 30 years wasn't a thing. Most creatives want to make new things, and they enjoy making new things. But we live in a weird world where people applaud recognizable franchises, and the idea these great minds who made great things deciding to make something that they find new and expressive is considered confusing and a waste of potential. If Sonic was a series that lasted for about 5 years, that would still be profoundly successful set of games that tried a bunch of things, but to many people that still isn't good enough. They want the creators to be compromised so they can have Sonic for life.

>>12324480
Sonic Team should have been adults and make what the people fucking wanted then do their stupid nights shit after 3d sonic was already made

>>12324430
Yes, because they could've and should've made Sonic instead of this boring trannyclown shit. They needed an answer to Mario 64.

>>12324597
it's a good answer IMO. it controls like butter with the 3D controller, everybody who played it on release can attest to how damn good it felt to just do loops in the game. I really think all the arguments are just curmudgeonry. SM64, Nights and Crash are all 9/10 games at the very least, THEY ARE FUCKING GOOD and we should be celebrating this period in gaming cause we're probably not getting another one.

>>12324430
as a kid I honestly didn't know sega made stuff after the genesis until the dreamcast. I don't remember any kind of commercials, ads, or even plain ol word of mouth. It's like they ceased to exist for like half a decade, dropped the dreamcast, then went bankrupt

>>12324434
sonic extreme aside, a sonic game on saturn would have just been a sonic adventure prototype.
like imagine sa1 but sonic only, shorter levels and long load times.
i'm not even sure if it would have had chao.

>>12324634
I guess the anger is mostly with the 3D part of Sonic Jam being limited to a hub level instead of a full game in that style. 2bh it plays really well for what it is

>>12324639
it plays/looks great but there's no slopes or spindash yet. and sonic world does have unused animations used in sa1.
however the size of the hub world is fairly small assuming 3d sonic would be linear like sa1/crash bandicoot.

>>12324430
>Game advertises itself about the freedom and majesty on flight
>You're on rails and on a time limit
>The team researched Freud, REM sleep, etc
>The plot is paper thin and the kids' plights are laughably basic
>Here's an advanced artificial life system
>Too bad you can never experience it in depth because we want you to hurry the fuck up in every level.

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>>12324430
I don't know because I only played the crappy PC version. SRB2 did it better though.

>>12324430
>Does it deserve the scrutiny and ridicule?
The game based on quality? No. Sega making it when they did? Yes. There isn't anything wrong with making a game like that but they needed and I mean NEEDED a game that sold like Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot, a system seller and if they thought this was it, then they were wrong.
They put the Sonic guys on this and outsourced Sonic to the US. Nights came out July 96, a critical time, while Sonic EXtreme was delayed until death. Nights into Dreams was the kind of bold new IP you make after a 3D Sonic title, not before.
>>12324473
>$299. that's what it all comes down to
That was humiliating for Sega but the Saturn's price dropped to $299 a few weeks after the PS1 hit US shores

>>12324802
Saturn had 2 system sellers in VF2 and Daytona. the platform was more geared to arcade players and paradoxically it's what gave it such a long life in Japan, even as the approach failed completely in the West. that is also the reason Sega allowed Sonic Team to make a "prestige title" in Nights instead of working on more Sonic, they expected more of a crossover from arcade players to the home side than what we know now was realistic.

>>12324471
"gamecube is the worst consumer electronic ever released" vibes

>>12324814
>it's what gave it such a long life in Japan

I wouldn't say that, the Saturn had basically two lives in Japan, with the second life feeding off Virtual Novels and otaku games.

NiGHTS is an extraordinary game, a genuine masterpiece. It's just a shame it's so short and limited. But the concept is genius.

What if you took a 2D platform game and took away the platforms?

What would you be left with if you had a platform game with no platforms, no jumping, no baddies to jump on, no death, not even any gravity?

A Sonic game where Sonic could just fly straight to the end of the level?

>>12325001
Also it has THE best chiptune music of the 32-bit era

>>12324959
Most retro cd based consoles had their VN eras, dreamcast definitely did.

>>12324473
No good games whatsoever, whenever anyone brings the PS1 or N64 you can bring a handful of great games, while the Saturn was only Nights Nights Nights, and Panzer Dragoon.

And weeb games don't count either, you can't sell your console only with those.

>>12324802
*UK, Sonic 3D Blast and R were made by the same british studio that developed the Mickey Mania and Toy Story games, with the help of Sonic Team. (3D Blast was based on scrapped Sonic 3 ideas after all)

>>12324430
Looking at it today? It's definitely not a Super Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time level game when compared to the N64, or a Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy VII game when compared to the PSX, but it's not the worst thing ever.

But back in 1996, looking at Nights releasing a month after Super Mario 64 in Japan? Holy shit the cope required to still support the Saturn at that point was legendary.

>>12325294
For me its Virtua Cop, Nights, Panzer Dragoon Zwei, Virtual On, Shining The Holy Ark, and Elevator Action Returns. Did you know Virtual On invented the lock on system in 3D games? Without it, ocarina of time never could have worked!

>>12325437
personally I still like nights over mario 64, but oot is hands down a 10/10.
mario 64 gives you amazing controls/physics and a full 3d environment, but then says go pick up that star that's just sitting over there.

I actually like it more than any Sonic game

>scrutiny and ridicule
By who? A single retard spammer on nu-/vr/ or a lousy pack of autists for an already mediocre franchise?

>>12324434
Based

>>12324464
A lot of their noteworthy stuff were supposed to be or did came on the Saturn. Also Willy Wombat is better than Crash.

>>12324473
>a decision that got someone fired anyways

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>>12324562
They were doing a world a favor and leave the autism rat dead.
If only Xtreme did come out and flopped as its fated to do.

>>12324480
>You've gotta understand that the people who made Sonic were young adults that had already made a bunch of other games, and the idea of making Sonic for the rest of their lives probably wasn't something they were thinking about or desired. In the early 90's, the idea of a game series existing for 20 or 30 years wasn't a thing. Most creatives want to make new things, and they enjoy making new things.
if more non-creative types understood this, the world would be a much better place.

>>12324562
you didn't understand a word he said did you? must be terminal autism.

>>12325519
They are paid to make games that sell, not wannabe artists

>>12324434
>nah, it's just a case of Sonic fans being butthurt because their series didn't get a Saturn game.
I can assure you that's not the reason. It just isn't very appealing at all.

>>12325537
>I can assure you that's not the reason.
If it wasn't, why the seethe when it was Saturn's mascot and not the autism rat again?

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>>12324480
>and the idea of making Sonic for the rest of their lives probably wasn't something they were thinking about or desired.
Because they knew it's a devil's deal.
Just look at Pokemon, Sugimori had to give up his dreams of being a mangaka for a mediocre franchise even Taijiri barely has any insight on.
Imagine if they NEVER recovered from Pokemania, it'd be on a similar sad state the Sonic franchise is in right now.

>>12324639
>2bh it plays really well for what it is
It's too slow

>>12325561
Pretty sad actually

>>12324597
>They needed an answer to Mario 64.
Too bad they didn't have one, and no amount of cope will change that. Every iteration of Sonic Mars or Xtreme looks worse than both Crash and Mario 64.

>>12324430
As a game? No.
As a mascot for a major console? Yes.

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>>12325561
>p-please give a fuck about the other shit gamefreak made and no one give a fuck about!
>being the artist of the highest media franchise in the world is so sad guys!
>ruins his own art style in 2003 anyway
>didn't even make the most iconic Pokémon, absolutely mogged by Nishida
>he is the one behind most of the ridiculed Gen 5 shitmons
>Was the one who had a "talk" with Masuda because Masuda was simply telling the team to do their fucking job and make good games (Gen 3 - 5)
>moment he gets masuda off the director chair games go to shit (Gen 6 - 9)
He and the lazy fucks that didn't want to work under Masuda are the real villains and why pokemon went to shit

>>12325597
Nishida was responsible for those babymons and design philosophy nerfs in Gen 2 right? Then she shouldn't have a say, since she's responsible for the merchandisification of Pokemon and Game Freak's sad attempts to further capitalize on it to keep the franchise alive.

>>12325597
That slut tried to do her own Pokemon franchise and failed before it became a thing lol
Truely the Lauren Faust of Japan.

>>12325636
>Nishida was responsible for those babymons and design philosophy nerfs in Gen 2 right?
No that was the anime guys as always being too lazy to animate fully evolved pokemon
>she's responsible for the merchandisification of Pokemon and Game Freak's sad attempts to further capitalize on it to keep the franchise alive.
>ie her pokemon are so popular they keep the franchise alive by selling merch
Good?

>>12325640
Still looks better than anything Sugimori ever made after he sold his soul during frlg

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>>12325542
>Coffin went and program Burning Rangers after Xtreme cancellation
I would have fired the expensive Zbrush hack when i had the chance too. He took away our saturnkino for a Bug! ripoff.

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>>12325651
Can't be better when it doesn't exist.

>>12325645
>throwing your creative integrity to sell plushies is good
I bet you also love shitmons like Cinderace and kirby ripoffs like Falinks.
or probably cheered when Warner Bitches. cancelled Symbionic Titan because WHOOPS not enough boys buying enough toys.

>>12325668
>cinderace
7/10 pokemon, still a lot better than Inceleon and Baraboom
>Falinks
Yeah this one sucks, mostly because I don't care about shit that can't evolve during your journey
>cancelled Symbionic Titan because WHOOPS not enough boys buying enough toys.
Never heard of that cartoon but by coincidence just saw a video how Danny Phantom also got canned for the same reason and a bad videogame that didn't sell.
I'm not a cartoon guy, I'm a game guy and I really can't blame executives for canning things that didn't make money that's their job. It seems that at the time most cartoons made money out of their merchandise not just for having a good rating on TV.

>>12325525
>t. jeet that can't wait to use AI to make his """"own"""" """""""""""games""""""""""""""

>>12325448
>Virtual On
That's an arcade game, it would've been released anyways

>>12325752
AI derangement syndrome, no one mentioned AI, if anything triple aaa studios are using it left and right

>>12325970
everyone is using it even though it's not a powerful technology or something to get rustled by, it's a fad like 3D movies or VR that comes back every 20-30 years and always underdelivers.

>>12325974
AI is far from a fad my friend. This is coming from someone who despises its use in creative endeavors. There may be a market crash at some point but it will be like the dotcom crash that will be a correction more than anything. AI is like the Internet; it has changed our daily life and it's here to stay.

I find the game more confusing than anything.

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>>12326172
see the "link" count on the bottom? it resets if you go a couple seconds without scoring anything, you're supposed to keep the link going for as long as possible. it's not about how fast you can finish a lap, you should repeat them(by going over the nights gazebo instead of into it) and only enter when the timer is about to run out

>>12326002
I think we're in a period of collective awe about this tech because its real (dollar) expenses haven't had a reckoning. It absolutely is a bubble and I think it's inevitable for AI optimists to significantly scale down their expectations once it bursts, because we are still dealing, in the end, with lossy automated collation.

>>12326194
why?

>>12326002
Telling a machine to cobble something together for you out of things actual creative people have made is not a creative endeavor.

>>12326239
develop your skill which is denoted by your increase in score. sonic isnt about just getting through the level and reach the end, its to practice so you can do it in a skillful competent manner

>>12326194
it's kind of lame how chaining tricks has higher rewards than increasing the link, I think the WRs for each world were actually accomplished this way instead of "properly" playing the game (lapping in bonus time). it's 100% a design oversight.

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>>12326257
who plays console games for the highscores?

>>12325915
Cool, it's awesome

>>12326213
The thing is about AI is that it has A LOT of non-creative applications specifically in information retrieval/summation which is actually part of many people's job descriptions in the service economy.

>>12326256
>Telling a machine to cobble something together for you out of things actual creative people have made is not a creative endeavor.
Never said it was you stupid retard, reread my post

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>>12324434
FPBP
Although I wouldn't say it's the old Sonic fans from back then, maybe the new ones.
Most of the "hate" is moder "gamers" regurgitating SoA propaganda they've been fed from youtubers, "gaming journalists" etc

>>12327106
It was a bog-standard mediocre game and no amount of TADC-inspired reconning will change that.

>>12327158
I don't know what kind of meme language are you typing but no, Nights is not mediocre and at the time was cherished for originality, art direction and fun gameplay
>nooo it's not fun!
Imagine how much I care about the opinion of someone who wasn't there at the time.

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>we have Superman 64 at home

>>12324430
>>12324430
>>12324430

Nights is okay, but most people don't really understand how the game works except for the 9 people that praise the saturn. I don't even hate the game, it's just not what the Saturn needed unfortunately. Unique, interesting, but could've been an idea reserved for another console generation.

>>12328907
I mean it's only logical that a Saturn exclusive game would be played by Saturn gamers. Is it really a bad fit for the console though? It runs pretty well and the Dreamcast had even more experimental first party games than the Saturn did.

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>>12326280
>Who cares about objective measures of skill?

>>12329091
Nights was supposed to be the console's mascot. It was a terrible fit for the American market.

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>>12329458
>Nights was supposed to be the console's mascot
Aren't you forgetting about someone?

>>12329458
Meanwhile, in the world of reality: Pandemonium was an influencial best seller.

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>>12329458
>>12329723

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>>12329724
Kito Pixas was better

>>12324950
Make whatever argument up you need to faggot

>>12329703
No

>>12325496
I don't get it

>>12324634
And it would have been better than NiGHTS, still.

>>12332096
According to you, which isn't saying much.

>>12324430
game carried by v i b e s. built with outdated 2D arcade design and becomes brainless after an hour and ends in two. played it from christmas to new year couple of years ago, enjoyed my time with it but will never touch it again.

>>12328885
>t. has played neither

>>12324603
it controls nice, much nicer than crash, but the game is over in an hour. same exact shit with panzer. sega was still giving us pump and dump arcade games when people were expecting longer content filled experiences and this is the real reason the saturn failed. nights is great but its not a fucking system seller and never shouldve been put in that position. I dont get it either because they made plenty of good games for the genesis, they knew how to make a killer app anchor title to get people to buy in. but they really just went full fucking retarded with the saturn and never recovered

I feel lik nights makes people who don't own a Saturn seethe

>>12326194
Looks girly, for girls. Mischeaf makers had more grit.

>>12324634
Wow, that sounds way better than regular Sonic Adventure

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>>12339278
>playing video games to affirm your masculinity

>>12324814
>VF2
>Daytona
You can play those at arcades moron, who even wants to play them anyway? VF sucks balls, and guess what, Gran Turismo exists! Single-handedly making Daytona irrelevant.

>>12325561
I'd gladly give up my dreams to be one of the richest people in existence just for drawing Japanese anime funny animals. Some people simply don't deserve success due to how fucking ungrateful they are

>>12341040
>VF sucks balls
>Gran Turismo exists! Single-handedly making Daytona irrelevant
the fuck is wrong with this snoy

>>12327178
Remain glitch insulated

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Chris Senn is rape victim and all SoA employees are hacks incapable of releasing a single project and loosing millions yearly. Never trust (((their))) words.

Naka was and still is right about the anglosphere destroying everything you like.

>>12324430
Isn't this game considered one of the best Saturn games, like top 5?

>>12344998
Yea, its mostly anti-arcade discussions that happened after OOT came out and ruined video games. Similarly BOTW also came out and ruined video games again.

>>12344998
Yes, it became a meme to hate Nights (and Saturn in general) as a backlash because Saturn was treated as a "hidden gem" of consoles for those who knew. There's no sacred cows on modern internet.
>>12345002
Take the meds.

>>12325573
>Every iteration of Sonic Mars or Xtreme looks worse than both Crash and Mario 64
This
I like Sonic, but X-treme looks like ass in every single piece of gameplay footage there is. I don't get why so many people think it looks like it would have been a masterpiece

>>12324634
>imagine sa1 but tight like a retro game instead of bloated like a modern one
Am I supposed to find this unappealing? Why are you even here?

>>12344994
Based experiments

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>>12339278
and more importantly, more thigh.

>>12324480
>Make something new
>People don't like it
>Why people don't like my art? they should like my stuff and have my own views on art
Like, shut up and stuff.

>>12328885
lel

>>12324430
It's an alright game. What deserves ridicule is thinking it would be a system seller.

>>12325668
>>12325690
Falinks is one of the better new gen designs, you guys have bad taste.

>>12328885
Superman 64 would actually have been good if it had Nights' control.

>>12324434
>Nights is better than Crash
Holy retard

>>12348361
>>People don't like it
But we liked Nights.
The whole nights bad/saturn bad narrative is modern reality twisting.
At best Nights was considered a cult classic and at worst people just didn't know about it because Saturn had shit distribution outside of Japan (and the ps1 happening, with Sony flooding the entire world with it), but this whole nughts/saturn hate is definitely modern, like 2020s modern, in the 2010s the Saturn still was seen as a cult console

>>12349297
You're right yet most anons will insist you're wrong because they/them can't appreciate score attack gameplay

>>12325653
According to you

>>12324950
Even the gaycube's library makes the Saturn look like a fucking joke.

>>12336645
Give it a rest, you can only get so contrarian.

>>12324430
Nights was always a bad game. It was especially bad when it was in stores on a playable kiosk just down the aisle from Mario 64 on a playable kiosk.

>>12351418
>The only good GameCube game was made by sega

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What "scrutiny and ridicule" ? It's one of those cult-classic games that everyone looks back fondly on.

>>12325668
>it sells merchandise therefor it is LE BAD and LE INTEGRITY VIOLATION
okay

Flappy bird

>>12351601
Welcome to /vr/, you've got some surprises in store for you

>>12351601
Apparently the 2012 dimensional merge took us to a timeline where Nights is, like, baaaaaaad

>>12351432
You can't imagine the depths I willingly sink

>>12351884
Fantastical thinking

>>12344913
Debuggered

>>12351601
It has become the game that couldn't save the saturn

Yes it does.

>>12356974
Good luck

>>12344913
I'll fucking kill you

>>12357031
Go die