Has Secret of Mana really aged as poorly as some people say? Are you off just playing the remake?
>>12339386Yeah, it plays like shit, honestly. There are probably a bunch of ROMhacks that improve the experience, though.
>>12339386I don't think the remake adds anything, just 3D graphics.
>>12339386No. Still a good game.
This game was never good. numberscoomers only like it because of the music, but when they actually play it they realize it's shit!
>>12339386Nah, Secret of Mana still rules. Most of the complaints you hear about the game are things people were talking about even when the game was relatively new (stuff like the magic system, party members getting stuck, incomplete feeling second half, long charge times, etc.). The only way it's really aged is the world around it has made it rarer to have good multiplayer sessions, because it's harder to convince random friends or siblings to play an old SNES RPG with you than something newer or online. In exchange, you can play Secret of Mana itself online. That's pretty sweet, as long as you don't get stuck with some asshole who sells your Power Wrist.
>>12339386The combat is really boring.
>>12339386>secret of stunlock
It is my belief that 99% of the people complaining about the partner's AI left it at default and didn't edit the parameters
>>12339514Bullshit. I always alter it and they still either eat shit all the time if you make it too aggressive or get stuck around stairs and corners if you make it too defensive.
>>12339512the combat is the saving grace of the game. all the jarpigness of a jarpig with none of the snore-inducing turn-based combat
>>12339495The idea of playing a multiplayer RPG is a really horrible idea Now don't bury your head in the sand and ignore what I'm telling you keep readingand the only reason this happened is because there are people so obsessed with wanting everything to be multiplayer. I can only think of this really working in a turn-based game like FF1, where you pass the controller around 4 people, but like be real: What option would they make besides what you would do if you were playing a singleplayer rpg? There is NO inclination to play any rpg multiplayer because the biggest reason for doing so is also the biggest impetus against it.It will make it slow to a miserable crawl and if you can't even pull your own weight you won't make a good impression for anyone else. (Don't believe me? Watch TRG's SoM playthrough) On the other hand though, I have much more knowledge of this game than someone would their first time, and even more than people who have finished it. I could probably convince someone SoM is a good game, but I WOULDN'T. Because that's what it deserves.
And if you doubt my knowledge:Did you know you can the third party member before meeting the girl? Furthermore, did you know you can get her before the two werewolves fight? It's doesn't really make a difference when playing singleplayer - they'll still get lambasted no matter what you set their attack pattern to - but it's a lot better because you have someone you can revive and buffer damage to, and rather than watching your host get stunlocked to death while everyone's just waiting for their character to even show up in the story to play.Adding to the multiplayer rpg blunders, I was showing Tales of Symphonia to a friend and I found even more stupid shit about that game because I was trying to tel him about things in th egame and even on NG+ it turns out a lot of features are still ocked at the start and even without knowing anything before this this he was laughing at it, like 'Great, thank you for telling me about these things I can't do yet.'
can get* ffs
>>12339548>I can only think of this really working in a turn-based game like FF1, where you pass the controller around 4 people, but like be real: What option would they make besides what you would do if you were playing a singleplayer rpg? There is NO inclination to play any rpg multiplayer because the biggest reason for doing so is also the biggest impetus against it.Funny enough, a lot of Final Fantasy games actually have a basic multiplayer option where you can divide up control of the characters (V, VI, and IX). IV only lets you use a second controller to both control anyone at the same time in the US version, but the original Japanese version also lets you assign characters.Multiplayer RPGs are brilliant if you're a kid sharing a console with your siblings. I spent a lot of time watching my older brother play games. So being able to jump in like that is really cool, for similar reasons as being able to control Tails in Sonic is cool.
>>12339573>Did you know you can the third party member before meeting the girl?Yes.
>>12339547It's just boring hack and slash but you have to wait for your weapon to charge up. It's the worst of both worlds, even if you're a fag that hates superior turn base.
>>12339386>Has Secret of Mana really aged as poorly as some people say?Looking to see the cracks in the coding, the fragmented story telling, or the space saved for the rushed English translation isn't the same as saying something aged poorly.Now Final Fantasy Adventure? That's aged like raw milk left out in the sun in Riyadh.
>>12339547>>12339627It's basically ATB but more actiony because you can move around freely.
>>12339635Which makes a ton of sense considering work on Secret of Mana began as Final Fantasy IV:>After we finished FFIII, we started FFIV with the idea of a slightly more action-based, dynamic overworld rather than keep combat as a completely separate thing. But, at some point, it wound up not being IV anymore… Instead, it was eventually released as “Seiken Densetsu 2” (Secret of Mana), but during development it was actually referred to as “Chrono Trigger”. (laugh)https://legendsoflocalization.com/articles/ff4-som-chrono-dev-connections/I imagine the ATB concept itself grew out of the initial work there.
>>12339641>The different orientations of Square's games for the Super NES has often led to speculation about a fragmented company where development teams pulled in different directions. But there is equally as much truth in that the games, and the teams behind them, influenced each other. In the same way as parts of Chrono Trigger originally had been intended for Secret of Mana, was the latter a further development of Square's Super NES-debut Final Fantasy IV. It was when Tanaka, Koichi Ishii and the legendary programmer Nasir Gebelli investigated the possibility of developing that game's active time battle as they got the idea for their innovative combat system.>- Secret of Mana is in many ways the game Final Fantasy IV could have been, says Tanaka. Many of the design decisions we discussed during the development of that game was used in Secret of Mana instead. The whole game represents a direction we were considering with Final Fantasy IV, but ultimately avoided.>In Secret of Mana, all three heroes have their own stamina meter. Every time someone performs an attack, they must wait a short time before they can hit with full force again, otherwise it gives the attack only a fraction as much damage. In this way, the battles become like a real-time version of the Final Fantasy-system. Along with experience points and the often copied function of weapons and magic becoming stronger the more they are used, gave the stamina meter Secret of Mana a more RPG-like tone and separated it even more from all the soulless The Legend of Zelda-clones that around this time flooded the market.https://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,10102.0.htmlA translated Swedish magazine interview where it's also discussed.
>>12339641It didn't work, at least in my opinion. It just felt like a boring hack and slash but one that wasted your time. None of the actual strategy that a proper RPG can have.
>>12339641>>12339649Interesting. Thank you.
>>12339548>The idea of playing a multiplayer RPG is a really horrible ideamy brother in Christ just pause for a moment and think about what you just wrote
>>12339386If someone says something "aged poorly" they are just saying it doesnt fit their modern sensibilities. If you feel like you have modern sensibilities then it could be true, if you dont yearn for the pathetic touch of a QoL mod then you'll probably enjoy it.
>>12339854Read it again. I'm not talking about mmorpgs
>>12339880i think he's mocking you because D&D, the foundation of RPGs, is a multiplayer game and the first video game RPGs were multiplayer.
>>12339880lol...
>>12339862This. The game was always bad. It looks and sounds nice but that's it.
>>12339882>dndYeah, I didn't want to point out the obvious but that's a tabletop game and you can do things differently there that you can't do in a video game but now you have me curious:>and the first video game RPGs were multiplayer.Was this a mistake? Or do you really mean games like Ultima and Final Fantasy?
>>12339926I meant the true first video game RPGs that no one talks about the PLATO RPGs that influenced Wizardry and were played on university mainframes.
>>12339386Here, have a larger and higher quality scan I found.
>>12339974>first game in a new action/adventure seriesdo not believe their lies
>>12339386It's got terrible combat and horrendous AI partners that can get caught on the environment making literally every aspect of the game not fun. On top of that the music blows and the art direction is goofy.This game is carried by an incredible cover art and the fact that it's co-op and no one has actually played it in years.
>>12339386>>12339953Just wanted to say that this is still some of the most beautiful cover art of all time. Always makes me want to play the game. Too bad the game itself isn't actually as good as the art.
>>1233997994/100 on the faggot scale.About as overly dramatic as a gay hairdresser talking about their day.
>>12339932I concede the point, I will have to do further research into this
>>12340003The funny thing is that I agree that SoM in particular is an awkward game in multiplayer and that playing vidya RPGs with someone with a huge knowledge discrepancy feels kinda bad.
>>12339386The combat is actually good, having to time your attacks makes it more strategic than most ARPGs
>>12340708Yeah the actual gameplay part was among the good parts of the game. The art and gameplay were great, it was just that the story was boring. The ending sucked. I was also annoyed about the mode 7 Flammie thing, it was cool and made sense, well done I suppose and you could explore for hidden areas. My problem is that inserting mode 7 into anything always feels like a gimmick and made the ending feel cheaper. I'm sure in 1992 people would have loved it though.
>>12339386I replayed it a little bit ago and ended up getting lost, a bit after you get flammie. I think i saved the guy in the ice place who's stuck in a stove or something idk. Anyway this has a unique charm, it kind of belongs nowhere. The world is really comfy and it blew my mind as kid because it totally seemed like a whole other world. Only Aqua Knight made me feel like that as an adult
Returning King Truffle to his kingdom is entirely optional. You can keep him hostage on Flammie until the end of the game.
>>12339495I was in that original thread lol fuck
>>12339386I tried to play it with a friend a couple years ago and we both hated it.
>>12339953What’s with the link inside this JPG?
>>12341426it's Zelda
>>12339386It is a multiplayer game. If you are a friendless soulless jeet you will hate it. If you are above 100IQ and capable of appreciating unique things, you will adore it.
I like the music
The player aged poorly, not the game. This is a game that can ONLY be loved by children (and adults with badly stunted minds). It's much too janky and too easy for adults.
>>12339981they just superimposed the characters into a licensed painting
>>12339386I don't think they aged poorly, and they're just as fun as ever co-op, but they really could have at least gotten bugfixes with their re-releases, especially SoM. I've seen romhacks that try to fix stuff like the menu timer bug in SD3 but its like nobody even wants to try fixing SoM, which is a shame.
>>12343829As good a reason as any
>>12344589I played a ROM hack that gets rid of the weapon cooldown and it turns it into a completely different game. And a much worse one as you can just sort of run up and buzzsaw enemies to death.
>>12339386It was never very good, but had some value as a unique multiplayer experience you're unlikely to get to experience today.
>>12339487/thread
its one of my few childhood games that i loved that i just cant play anymore. too much menuing without shortcuts, meta is entirely magic spam, the special charge attacks are completely retarded. why did they make waiting a game mechanic? waiting is not fun. im not referring to waiting for the melee meter to return to 100%. thats fine. i mean the actual charge attacks. they shouldve had special inputs or something. the game really is a waiting/wheel menu simulator.
>>12339495>incomplete second halfWho knows how this game could have been if not for the bitch ass 8 channel audio, that blocked important parts of the music when some noise happened or the fucking tiny memory.
>>12345812That sounds awesome
>>12339386I think so, the hitboxes sometimes get really bad in this game. I think SD3 and even Secret of Evermore were better in this regard, they have their fair share of wonkiness too but I find them more enjoyable to play then SoM because I'm not struggling with bad hitboxes most of the time.
>>12339386I played it for the first time a few years back and ended up enjoying it. The combat wasn't particularly deep, but it was fast enough to stay fun and engaging, with the exception of a few annoying enemies that seemed to exist just to slow you down.I recommended it to a friend and he ragequit by the end of the second boss. The tiger, I think? He kept getting stunlocked and killed. There's definitely a learning curve to keeping your party alive in this game, and you either click with it or you don't.
>>12345812Thats why I was talking about the actual bugs, like spell stacking, eating inputs and putting you on instant cooldown, shit like that. I did find one that makes some of the orbs not take until the last 5 minutes of the game to earn which was nice, but I have no doubt zoomies would "QoL" the game out of the game if given the chance.
>>12339629>Final Fantasy AdventureIt's fucking awesome, what are you talking about
>>12339386It didn't age poorly because there's nothing to age. It was always a baby's first JRPG with local co-op that is a real mess when you look closer at it. At least it's not fully Squaresoft's fault because the game went through dev hell purely because of Nintendo's and Sony's divorce that cucked Maru Island from ever being finished.But there's a reason nips treat SD3 as the beloved child while not giving a damn about SD2 (and ENfags only care about SD2 because they never got SD3 and SD2 was their very first JRPG) - SD2 is a mess of a game>first "area" (the pre-Upperland part of the game) is the only well-designed and well-paced part of the game, rest of the game is clearly stitched together with various random parts of Maru Island and any sort of pacing is thrown out of window after DA RESISTANCE part>story is paper-thin (which is sadly a norm for SD as a series - Legend is an exception and it's only thanks to Kawazu), you might as well just play FFVI instead to get the same exact story but with more memorable characters this time.>gameplay doesn't work well (damage stacking system is retarded, Popoi's damage magic spam with walnuts breaks every boss fight while 90% of magic in the game is not worth the MP, charge attacks are not worth the trouble when the damage cap in the game is 999 and you can get interrupted by enemy attacks or even die before you get 5+ bars, some status effects are worthless while some like Balloon are broken, some weapon stages applying debuffs to enemies but losing such ability after upgrading is a retarded idea (at least you can keep that Javelin with Balloon debuff to break the game in another way), some weapon types don't do shit with puzzles and are basically a copy of other weapon), but I'd still rate it above Legend's gameplay that is flawed to the core>>12346789I agree, SD1 is short but sweet. It only sucks if you're retarded and don't buy several packs of keys in advance before going into dungeons.
>>12339386It's one of the greatest games ever made and I'm in the middle of another replay right now.No I would never touch the "remake" with a ten foot pool. What is with you non-generationals and "remakes"? Why do you obsess over this hollow idea that "the version they made later must be the bestest one!" That's never true. It's the ORIGINAL GAME that made the whole world fall in love with it. It stands to reason then there is absolutely nothing wrong with playing the original version. Remakes can only ever go DOWN because they're just trying to reinterpret something through a lens of people other than the creators who made the original at the peak of their creative potential. Games don't age, they last. What ages is the spirit of the times and the world that existed when the designers poured their hearts into a game. So games preserve a slice of that; remakes DON'T.>b-but bugs-Irrelevant. The point stands without issue: Games like FF1 and Secret of Mana had "bugs". They didn't impede the games from becoming some of the most beloved sensations in history. They still don't impede them today. There is NO NEED to play a remake or bugfix romhack in order to "truly" enjoy the game. "You do you", as they say, but if you think modification of something great that has stood the test of time is what's necessary to make it accessible to you, well, I'd never want to be that shallow.
>>12346123It's not. It's retarded, and the guy you're replying to you even acknowledged that. It's an abominably bad idea and very clearly showcases the problems that happen when non-designers try to make a game "better" for themselves, it always comes out worse. Most players don't know what makes gameplay design "good" under the hood, the don't consciously understand that the things they often complain about are important parts of what keeps them coming back and enjoying the overall experience. Going through Doom your first time in life with IDDQD on at all times would be an utterly miserable experience.
>>12339901>"This">proceeds to post something complete incongruous with what he's replying toI think you just kinda owned yourself badly there zombor
my hot take: secret of evermore eats mana's lunch
>>12347606I like Evermore a lot but honestly I've never finished it. Rented it several times in the cart days, fired it up in multiple different generations of PCs/emulators/handhelds.. I mean to, but it doesn't quite have the same stickiness as SoM that makes me want to keep going until it's done. Fantastic atmosphere though. Some of Soule's greatest work, using ambient sounds for half the soundtrack is super simple stuff but genius.
>>12339386The darling of 00s retro scene. Oh how the mighty have fallen
>>12347606they did manage to streamline the engine a bit more, and the magic system is super neat and far superior, but it just doesn't have anywhere the soul of mana.
>>12347606because they are dating and som is the better cook.
>>12347637evermore is the dom that mana always wantedthe strong masculine man who fishhooks mana every night
>>12347596The game is ass and always was, is the point I'm making. Sorry you're too stupid to get it.
>>12347648nah, evermore is the weak little tryhard faggot getting taken care of by his older dommy mommy and crying for tendies at lunch
>>12347596shut the fuck up retard
I never liked it. I hated it as a kid to the point that I had way more fun emulating the random licensed anime RPGs like DBZ, Sailor Moon, or that Ranma 1/2 game than I did SoM.I gave it another shot about 10 years back in my 20s because I wanted to see if it was as bad as I remember. It was.For what it's worth, I do understand why people like the game. It's just one that I personally really dislike.
>>12339386Square only became great with the PS1 (and goes to shit after FF10)SNES Square was just ok
>>12347212I got filtered by that fucking number 8 puzzle lol
>>12347849evermore throatswabs mana every nighteach time, mana begs for more asphyxiation every timesorry you're too beta nice guy pilled to see this
>>12339386On the sliding scale of Action to RPG, Mana is a little closer to the RPG side of things. YEAH you can run around but the actual gameplay is basically turn based.
>>12347212>there's nothing to age.bruh having to constantly open the menu, scroll to your elemental, then pick a spell is the definition of aging. no one would ever release a game like this today. you would have shortcuts so half the game isnt spent in a menu
>>12348180extremely turn based
I would say knowing you can stack magic damage by just casting the spell again before the animation ends is an incredibly broken mechanic. I think the music and sprites are cool, I love the weird sprinkles of sci fi and post apocalyptic stuff. So I think it's still worth playing, even broken.
>>12350203you would think that
>>12339386If secret of mana aged like females, it's post wall at this age.
>>12350786And I do.
>>12350803Wall doesn't fuck around in this game
>>12347212I always saw Secret of Mana more akin to Rocky & Pocky or the Goemon game, than Final Fantasy. The story was there, but it is not the main focus in any regard.Besides changing the clunky hitbox pseudo turn based system (completely intended: Devs didn't wanted to create a traditional ARPG), they should have given the magic a charge time before cast. Casters could even be vulnerable during this period. In that case, the party would do everything to protect the caster. Thus making a successful offensive magic hit a big reward.In any case, SoM did some things no other game of the era dare to try. You got not 1 but 2 ally characters following you around, whom move, attack, flip, block, and overall act convincingly 92% of the time. You got 8 different weapons type. Any Character can equip any weapon and the graphics for given weapon change accordingly!All at 60 FPS!Music and graphics are superb, of course.
>>12345964> too much menuing without shortcutsFirst world problem.>meta is entirely magic spamIts unfortunately a shitty bug, much like the similar one in SD3, but you can always just not use them like most people who enjoy the games. FF3(6) is clearly unplayable because of vanish/x-zone alone.>the special charge attacks are completely retardedThe entire point of "waiting" for charge attacks is supposed to reflect looking for an opening. SD combat in general is very anti-spam, and particularly in SoM.Its fine to dislike it, but get better reasons.
Magic spam is your reward for stocking up on Fairie Walnuts and conserving magic through the dungeons.
>>12348295Players regressing is not the same as a game aging. Otherwise in 50 years any game that has the possibility of a game over and doesn't give you a gold star for not waking up dead will be considered "aged."
SoM has terrible music and outside of the opening music, you can not show me a single song that is good.
