What midi hardware/vsti/soundfonts does /vr/ use?
I still have my Sound Canvas SC-88ST Pro I got in 1999 for $600. Ordered it COD -- that's cash-on-delivery, not Call of Duty! Hah! 'Member when that was a thing? 'Course even in 1999 it wasn't cash anymore; they made you pay with a money order. Had to go down to the 7-11 to get that, and the limit was $500 so I had to get two. Anywho I last used it a year or so ago when I was playing Warcraft.
>>12380214I use a Roland SC-D70, and I usually just use its native mode if not the SC-88Pro map. Mapping it's a bit of a pain compared to say a SC-8850, since I have to input Sendmidi commands rather than a button on the module.
>>12380214VTSI is your frenSadly i wish there it was a way to record and convert midi through the soundfont as ogg.i really need to record Hexen and Hexen II's SC-88 soundtrack
>>12380303>VSTI is your frenWhat VSTi's do you use?>i wish there it was a way to record and convert midi through the soundfont as oggPretty sure you can do something like that directly through a Falcosoft midi player. In fact I think the opposite case happens in there, where a vst directly wired to that can't be recorded.
>>12380309the last version of roland sound canvas works perfectly on w10 as long as your VST midi synth is updatedit is how i am playing WC Privateer with it, and how i set my windows to use SC-55 GS as default.
>>12380214You posted themAlthough I have to admit that as each year passes by, I'm less and less impressed with SCVA.Nuked SC-55 is amazing though, but I noticed that in MK2 mode some instruments are missing and overall it plays in a lower tone than MK1
I use munt and nuked for my dos-rom gaming. I did buy a SC55 mk2 but found it’s too much hassle to actually hook it up so it’s just permanently connected to my A-88MKII now.
>>12380214I have an SC-55 connected to my Windows 98 PC with a repro PCMIDI card. I might get an MU80 too for XG MIDI too in future.
I like the Yamaha EX5R for General Midi. I also have a number of other GM and XG synths, as well as an MT-32.
I have both a MT-32 and a SC-55. I haven't used any of them in 5 years.
What do people think of the SC-D70? Is it worth getting over a SC-8850 or MU2000?
>>12380819>but I noticed that in MK2 mode some instruments are missing and overall it plays in a lower tone than MK1There is a fork of Nuked SC-55 that runs 2 instances instead of 1, supposedly it fixes the problem of that 1% of songs that have missing instruments. I'm at work right now, don't remember the name of the fork. On a related note, finally managed to make foobar run nuked sc-55 as a plugin, without the need of loop midi or any other external source.
Sound Canvas is inferior, that's the problem. There are many GM synths that sound better. Most synthesizer workstations and many rack modules have a GM mode but the samples are much better, you have better DACs, better effects, it's really astoundingly better.Does it sound the same as it would through a Sound Canvas? No. But if you look at the way the composers worked, they usually used a MIDI workstation keyboard. Once they had composed their music they would adapt it for the Sound Canvas and that would be the release. But if you want to hear the music as the composer intended it and composed it, you have to seek out the same synth they used BEFORE the GM conversion.You should do this if you're possessed by the need to be authentic. Even if you're not everything sounds much better on a higher quality synthesizer than a Sound Canvas. So that's the other reason to do it.
>>12382275Like an XG synth? what about later Soundcanvases like the sc-88pro? Konami used them for some of the midi power pro series.
>>12382410Nah I'm talking about synths with much much larger samples, professional workstations. Not Sound Canvas or XG-branded "computer music" entry level type stuff.
>>12380214I use this fork of Nuked-SC55 that supports multiple instances (avoiding polyphony limits when playing back more modern MIDI music that doesn't abide by them, like in custom Doom WADs) and offline rendering to WAV:https://github.com/jcmoyer/Nuked-SC55It needs ROM files that you can find on Archive.I use loopMIDI to set up a MIDI device that Nuked can listen to. I also use CoolSoft MIDI Mapper to pick which MIDI device is the default one in case an application doesn't allow selecting it.
>>12382501I prefer this fork which has a proper UIhttps://github.com/linoshkmalayil/Nuked-SC55-GUI-Float
>>12382275Pretty sure Duke was composed with a SC-55. At least from Bobby Prince, Lee Jackson used something better iirc.
>>12382529>>12382501Are the more obscure models firmware files uploaded somewhere? I only have the SC55 ROM, the SC55MKII and the JV880 one
>>12383830Oh they all had a Sound Canvas I'm sure, it was part of the job back then. But they probably generally used their higher quality instruments for the actual composition.
>>12383843I have to fix one of my two PMA-5's, maybe I'll dump the ROM while I'm at it. I suspect it has lower bit rate or sample depth samples than a normal Sound Canvas. They paired the ROM with a pretty grungy DAC. Probably the most power-saving one they could find at the time.
>>12381246Apparently it doesn't have good backwards compatibility. The SC-8820 is supposedly the last good one for that
>>12383854That sounds... iffy?
>>12383852afaik dumping the ROM isn't trivial since it's integrated into the main CPU.>>12382275GM isn't the same as GS, most GM compatible synths that weren't made to compete with the SC55 don't support many or all GS features, which were often used in games and karaoke songs to tune instruments and add special effects.
>>12383854>>12383857It's because it doesn't have a map button. You need to send sysex codes to it and it isn't very responsive.
>>12380214MT32 and 100% compatibles by Roland: classic for old DOS gamesSC55: the best for newer DOS games and some karaoke songsSC88VL: Best of late 1990s games and karaoke with bigger polyphony. Doesn't have all the classic SC55 instruments thoughMU80: Good for XG Midi and some newer gamesMU50: it's like the MU80 but with worse quality samplesTG100: has an unique early 1990s GM sound but is inferior to the SC55 in many waysTG300: Yamaha tried to make a "serious" SC55 competitor. They kinda failed but it's still a good synth with unique samples especially if you want to make your own musicKawai GMega: early GM synth with an unique sound and some firmware issues. Has an MT32 compatible map that basically nobody used, apparently inherited from earlier "Sound Palette" modules that were Japan only.Korg X5DR: GM synth with Korg sounds. Also has lots of unique sounds not mapped to GM/GS standard.2X Roland D110: you can load a GM map into the old D110. Since a D110 only has 8 midi channels, you have to use a second one if you want to hear all 16 channels of a general midi song. It's like using an MT32 for GM but it works better.Akai SG01k: Akai also made a module with sounds from their sampler collection that was GM and somewhat GS compatible.Hammond GM-1000: actually a GS compatible module by Hammond-Suzuki, sold mainly in the Netherlands. Also sold in Japan under the name "Sound Saurus BH-1000". It's unofficially GS compatible but includes a row of Hammond instrument variations behind the default one.Casio GZ-50M: super basic GM module worth picking up for cheap if you see itQuasimidi Quasar, Alesis Quadrasynth Plus, Roland JV1080 and other high end synths: even if they include a GM mode, it's usually very basic and not really worth the price of such a "pro" synth. GM2 compatible synths were released after Y2k and should support a basic form of GS but by that time GM and GS were basically irrelevant so not much effort went into this feature.
>>12383949What's the best way to play GM2 MIDIs from 1999/2000? I've tried the SC-8850 through three different instrument maps, as well as the XV-5080, MU2000, Kawai GMega, Akai SG01k, Korg X5DR, and Alesis Quadrasynth S4+, but I'm not satisfied with the resulting sound on any of them for these.
>>12384041Are they actually GM2 MIDIs? Open them with a special software like Vanbasco Karaoke player and check which instruments they use and if it contains text notes from the authorAnd many midis are just bad, made by people who only had a crappy creative labs sound card or worse or were made to be crappy cell phone ringtones.
>>12380214sound blaster PCI 128 8mb waveset.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkoWpvd1STchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j0_qiw3tj0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvH-y-vG4gcthere is a sf2 version of it that while not 100% accurate, it's good enough to satisfy my needs.https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-14U_O1eu6BjhoMOtIzD1irr_3tWRFBD/view?usp=sharing
>>12384047Just checked again and they appear to use SysEx F07E7F0901F7, so it's technically just regular GM (1).>And many midis are just badTrue, but this is from Windows games. It just seems to me they stopped caring as much by that point or something, because they used to do GS stuff in 1996 and that stuff sounds great on my SC-55.
>>12384115Some devs made midi tracks for their own synths that used nonstandard instruments to record the cd audio, and then just lazily mapped them to a GM instrument when they also had to make a midi version (often only for game demos)
>>12384140Even FF7 and FF8's original PC ports were victim to lazily-made midis (granted the XG version actually sounds decent).
>>12383864Didn't know it's integrated in the CPU. That's a whole different job. I haven't opened it up yet. I think I just have a bad cap or maybe transistor in the output stage. It "works" otherwise.General MIDI was usually a feature on games that supported GS though. Of course there is XG and XG2 and etc. as well. But there would usually be a GM option.>>12383904You can do that with the D-110 to turn it into an MT-32 as well. D-110's are still cheap, sound better too.
>>12384160>You can do that with the D-110 to turn it into an MT-32 as well.Its firmware isn't compatible with the MT32 parameters
>>12384174Many Sierra games actually already work fine on the D-110. Some games work less well, all will "work" because of how the architecture works. Many games only set up patches once too.There is some work on a small ESP-32 type device that will emulate a ROM and switch between the MT-32 and D-110 ROMs. It's ongoing but it already will work on some games, without any rejiggering.Some people are working on intercepting the MIDI and injecting SYSEX as well, a sort of shim that would work in Dosbox. Vogons forum has more on this.
>>12384151You can make most any game sound better on higher quality GM/GS/XG synths by editing the GM/GS/XG banks and changing the patches, the ones that are default are deisgned to sound "standard" ie like the cheaper units with smaller ROMs. But professional synths have much bigger ROMs, or even alternate synthesis such as physical modeling, you can use these to really liven up any game soundtrack by just editing the GM/GS/XG bank and putting in whatever you wish. Want a physically modeled violin? If you have a synth that can do it, go for it. My EX5R has physical modeling but it's just one mono voice. Works great for stuff like violin solos, or oboes or whatever.If you massage your synth a bit like this you can really jazz up the somewhat corny standardized GM/GS/XG sounds and make any game sound much better. You can also put a very small amount of global reverb on, with a better synth, so that it doesn't sound so raw. Etc.
>>12384190Neat, the last time I checked vogons, someone posted about a modded D110 but then didn't reply> Sierra games Aren't they using drivers to translate a generic music file to the various supported synths? Kind of how windows 3.1 has a GM driver for the E-MU Proteus even though it's not even GM compatible itself
>>12383904Borne sysEx works for me, at least with GZdoom, and EDuke. Midi players generally use a seperate sysEx.
>>12384201>Aren't they using drivers to translate a generic music file to the various supported synths?Beats me really. The shim idea could work without much trouble, seems like the best option. Architecture-wise the MT-32 is just a D-110 chopped in half with cheaper DACs and smaller ROMs. Some autist will figure it out, you can get a D-110 for $100 still and MT-32's are like $300+ last I checked which was at least a year or two back. I have both but haven't tried the D-110 with any games yet. MT-32 works great though, except it has such a garbage MIDI implementation.Interestingly the Roland MC-303 groovebox shares the same gimped MIDI architecture even though the synthesizer part of the gadget is a more modern JV ROMpler.
>>12384196Speaking of, has anyone actually redone the soundtrack and released midi rips for either?
>>12384210If you want an MT-32, the cheapest way is getting a RA50 and cutting a trace on its PCB>I have both but haven't tried the D-110 with any games yet. It just doesn't work. The default map is different, and when games try to upload custom instruments, they turn into garbage on the D110And yeah Roland loved to recycle its architecture. The SC55 and JV880 are basically the same for example, SC88 probably has the same CPU as JV1080, etc
>>12384217Nobuo used a Kurzweil for FF7, that would be the place to start. K2000's are still relatively cheap, couple hudred bucks. You could probably just use the presets, they didn't ship with any "standard" GM sounds. My Alesis is like that, no cheesy standardized GM bank, everything uses the normal high quality multisampled ROM. You can just run any GM game on that thing and it vastly improves the sound quality. EX5R too. Heck with the EX'ssampling you could drop in any sound you want into any voice (you can use samples or loaded .wav files as waveforms in AWM voices) and make it sound exactly like a Sound Canvas by loading the official Roland GM/GS waves from any Roland synth and filling a bank with 'em.I just don't have the autism for this most of the time. I did play around with making a better sounding General MIDI bank for Ultima VII (there's a GM patch).>>12384234>It just doesn't work.It works with some old Sierra games just fine, at the least, and more work partly. It depends entirely 100% on the game it seems.
>>12384238>It works with some old Sierra games just fine,Because those have a specific driver for the D110
What the FUCK is midi sounfront?
>>12384240Still seems like it could be possible to do along the lines people are working on. DOSbox shim seems to be the easiest thing, or some kind of little MIDI interceptor thing you can plug in between the computer and the MT-32.At some point when MT-32's hit $1000 and D-110's are still $100-150 it will be sensible to build such a device for somebody. For now I have both so it's not an issue, I'd like to use the D-110 instead of the MT-32 because I like the form factor and sound quality better.
>>12384246Garbage invented by creative labs.
>>12384246Basically a file that contains GM/GS/XG midi samples for midi hosts to use rather than the shitty wavetable synth windows had since 98. They're still inferior to most hardware or VSTIs, and Musical Artifacts has a ton of them.
>>12384252There's nothing wrong with soundfonts. An industry standard "patch" is a great idea actually. That's kind of what it tried to be after all.It depended on the hardware too. Sound Blaster Live! had a great implementation.
>>12384479They kinda made sense when some sound cards had their own RAM. But beyond that they were just crappy static samples sitting in system ram
>>12384486Timbres of heaven and Arachno are fine.
>>12384516If you have no standards, sureThey sound worse than almost all hw modules
I wish that nukeykt took some time to do work on MU50 emulationThe current work for it in mame is still buggy and it's taking too long, if it were nukeykt working on it, it would have been working properly by now
>>12384541Then what's the best XG emulation right now? The S-YXG50?
I have a vst3 plugin for soundfont. its pretty cool but I realized I dont want to make music with it too much, I just liked it in video games.
>>12384526They're both better than all of soundcanvas.
>>12384486>they were just crappy static samples sitting in system ramThey had more parameters, typical synthesizer ones. Envelope generators, which could be modulated, filters, effects even. It wasn't just triggering raw samples.>>12384526The reason they sounded worse was the smaller sample size compared to modules of the day, IIRC the Sound Blaster AWE32 wave set had to fit in 4MB memory. In that day professional synths had 128+ MB onboard of multisamples.Later on with the SBLive! you could load an arbitrary number of samples limited by RAM as the card no longer needed its own sample memory.>>12384569This is true.
>>12383949You're leaving out a lot, both Yamaha and Roland flagship workstations to this day, support GM, GS, XG.For laptop use the PMA-5 has an advantage because it is battery powered, you can get 10+ hours a set.Any Korg workstation from the M-1 on (M-1 8 voices only) will support GM, Korg being owned by Yamaha and Roland jointly with another firm. Later Korgs were both GM and XG capable, also both Roland and Yamaha introduced modes to allow XG and GS to play on their respective competing keyboards in many synths.>>12384041Roland Fantom II.
>>12380303If you have the midi files, you can point foobar 2000 foo_midi towards virtual sound canvas, then just right click -> convert.
>>12382275>But if you want to hear the music as the composer intended it and composed it, you have to seek out the same synth they used BEFORE the GM conversion.Which was very often the SC-55. At least for Apogee, 3D Realms and ID Software games.Meanwhile Cryo Interactive used custom FM patches that no other company did, and pushed OPL3 to insane lengths. The Adlib Gold version of Dune shits over anything you'll ever hear from... basically any GM synth.
>>12380214on my windows 11 machine, I use VST Midi Driver 2.5.1 with either SC-VA for GS2 or S-YXG50 for XG with an old copy of cakewalk when I'm writing midi files. I also use foo_midi when listening to midi files.
>>12384628>muh gigabites of shitty samplesThis one has just 6MB and sounds better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLZHrzIaK30
Does anyone have any idea of what soundfont mechwarrior 2's midi soundtrack used?
I love how the MU1000EX sounds, unfortunately I have no money so I'll never have the real thing. How's emulation for this? A nuked alternative is probably too much to ask so I guess soundfont is the only option?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4geHBkA1vE
>>12384650>both Yamaha and Roland flagship workstations to this day, support GM, GS, XG.They mostly use the old samples though>For laptop use the PMA-5 has an advantage because it is battery powered,Yeah there were tons of versions that the SC55 came in. Actually most of them are based on the SC50 or SC55MKII. i think the PMA5 lacks the MT32 sounds just like the SC50. Which can be an issue since even GS midis sometimes used thoseIf you want the authentic sound canvas sound, the best really is the SC55, real or emulated (Nuked SC55)
>>12385215>Jeehun's studio equipment. From left to right: Mackie 8‑buss mixer; Denon cassette and CD players, Rocktron Hush II noise reduction system, Alesis Midiverb II; Audix monitors, JVC professional video system, a pair of dbx 160A compressor/limiters, Alesis ADAT XT, Tascam DA30 Mk II DAT recorder; Zip and CD‑ROM drives, Apple Power Mac 4400, Kurzweil K2500; MOTU MIDI Timepiece, Roland JV1080 and Studio Electronics ATC1 rackmount synths.Jeehun's studio equipment. From left to right: Mackie 8‑buss mixer; Denon cassette and CD players, Rocktron Hush II noise reduction system, Alesis Midiverb II; Audix monitors, JVC professional video system, a pair of dbx 160A compressor/limiters, Alesis ADAT XT, Tascam DA30 Mk II DAT recorder; Zip and CD‑ROM drives, Apple Power Mac 4400, Kurzweil K2500; MOTU MIDI Timepiece, Roland JV1080 and Studio Electronics ATC1 rackmount synths.https://www.soundonsound.com/people/jeehun-hwang-composing-music-videogames
>>12384204I've just realized my SC-D70 may have problems playing 32ch GS files, and it might just be struggling with playing it on PART A instead of both parts.
>>12385219There's preliminary emulation for mu1000 and mu2000 in mame, only sample playback works no effects and is very cpu heavy at the moment
>>12385219The official Yamaha vsti is the closest thing to ithttps://veg.by/en/projects/syxg50/
This thing sounds better than its reputation
>>12385232That's so radical.
I've been thinking about getting either a mt-32 or an sc-88 or maybe both somewhere down the line are they a pain to hook up nowadays? I've heard the mt-32 needs like two sound cards or something like that
>>12385646>>12385725Thanka lads, I'll look into it.
>>12387325Now we rocking!
What about soundfonts?
I use FM8 to reach sega mega drive sound or something close to it
>>12387674>>12385209
>>12387786Thanks
>>12380214I have an SC-55mkII and an SC-88VL. One is hooked up to my modern PC via a USB interface and the other to my retro setup. I'd like to get an MU100, but it's hard to justify the cost when FF7 is really the only thing it'd get used for and the S-YXG50 VSTi does a fine job anyway.
>>12387838The S-YXG50 is pretty much the ideal way to play XG for anyone with no money. My only problem with it is the lackluster acoustics and ensemble, though most of the synth samples completely outclasses any soundcanvas module.
>>12387306>I've heard the mt-32 needs like two sound cards or something like thatYou can use the MIDI out on a normal soundblaster card that has a game port (with an adapter cable), but it has issues like the hanging note bug, since it's only emulating an MPU-401 compatible MIDI interface. I ended up getting a separate PCMIDI card to run my sound module.
>>12388485Oh, and you'll need to run SoftMPU in DOS since soundblaster's don't do intelligent mode properly.
As for later SC modules, should I get myself a SC-D70 or a SC-8850?
>>12389856SC-8820
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atZHFyR1LTI
>>12388485Some MIDI patchbays have an 'all notes off' button.
What are some Windows games with available MIDI music?I can only think of AOE1 and the 2hu games.
>>12391246Didn't MYST have a MIDI soundtrack option?
>>12384856They HAD an SC-55, but you can see it hooked up to a MIDI workstation. Really they had both in every case.
use case?
>>12384201>Aren't theyArent' they? Or are they? Is there a real answer? The synths are mostly identical, who knows.
>>12385209Bullshit lol. Zone-mapped multisamples which were pitched up and down within an octave or so are great, but they can't match multisamples based on a per-note basis. I am an MPC user and I have piano banks alone which completely fill the memory of my 2000XL and sound amazing still too.A 6MB bank can sound great. But without multisampling it's not as good as it could be.
>>12390382Eggsblain
