Someone around here claimed that early Famicom/Japanese games were copied from apple ii games, but that doesn't make any sense.Apple didn't officially do business in Japan until 1983, so all machines sold prior to 1983 would have been imports from the US. The yen was weak at the time and importing wasn't as easy as it is today where anyone can do it easily thanks to the internet, so the Apple II was VERY expensive in Japan. It would have been cheaper to buy a Japanese computer, and many of the computers on the market in Japan at the time had better specs than the Apple ii. The NEC PC-8001 was better than an Apple II when it released in 1979, and judging by the sales listings in scans of old Japanese magazines an Apple II at that time would have been around 2.5 times the cost of a PC-8001.Even in 1983 when Apple officially started doing business in Japan and the Apple II received some upgrades (also when Famicom released) it still doesn't make sense. It's true that Apple officially doing business slashed the prices of the Apple II in Japan, but looking at the Apple ads in old issues of I/O from 1984 it was still extremely expensive to buy an Apple II, it would have been a luxury purchase, and one that wouldn't make any logical sense since the Japanese home computer market evolved past the PC-8001. In 1983 you could get a Sharp X1 AND a PC-6001mk1 AND an MSX and it still would have been cheaper than buying an Apple II ! And better specs (except maybe the MSX)It's clear that Famicom devs started out on Japanese computers, especially if you know anything about the early devs like HAL, Hudson, Falcom, Koei, etc.Do you really expect me to believe that employees at a NINTENDO were importing Apple II's and playing American games when they could have just gone to their local electronics shop and gotten a superior Japanese computer for a fraction of the cost? That's a schizo theory if I've ever heard one.
>>12384470>Do you really expect me to believe that employees at a NINTENDO were importing Apple II's and playing American games when they could have just gone to their local electronics shop and gotten a superior Japanese computer for a fraction of the cost?Yes, because it takes just one or two Japanese programmers who like computers to buy an Apple II and play some games on it then port them to domestic computers. I've never even heard of this claim and judging by your tenuous grasp on English I assume this is either shitty bait or a thirdie who got their info from a local gaming news site. At least you got a (you) out of it.
>>12384561And upon doing just a tiny bit of googling, I found this snippet from a site called apple2history.org>In July 1980, Apple also released a version of the Apple II Plus specifically for the Japanese market. Called the Apple II j-Plus, this model presented some different challenges for Apple engineers. In Japan, power is supplied as 100 volts AC, and then has different frequencies (60 Hz in the west, 50 Hz in the east). As with the Europlus, a change was necessary to accommodate these voltage and frequency options.So it seems like my assumption of the latter is correct.
>>12384470This could be a stretch but maybe that person was confusing the American "H.A.L. Labs" with the Japanese "HAL Laboratory". They have nothing to do with each other except for them independently developing a version of Pac-Man for western home computers, and as far as I'm aware HAL Laboratory only made games for the VIC-20 and MSX before the Famicom. Nintendo probably did hire HAL Laboratory because of their experience with the MOS 6502 before the Famicom, and the American H.A.L. Labs was an Apple II and C64 developer, so that could be the source of this confusion.Pic is Taxman for the Apple II by H.A.L. Labs in an AVGN episode.
>>12384470>I'm going to challenge reality with my zoomer logic.I'm going to lmfao at you because of my boomer reality.You have no idea how inconceivably stupid your headcanon is.
Iwata bought a Commodore PET
>>12384561>>12384564Someone who likes computers is going to buy the more powerful machine which gets tons of support in all of the domestic magazines (important for gaming in that era), not pay the cost of multiple computers for a less powerful machine that gets little to no program listings in the local magazines.
>>12384728https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLaUrVMAMfA
>>12384604That is super bizarre. They were entirely unrelated?HAL made some hardware for Sharp computers, not sure about software though. I don't think they were limited to just MSX and Vic-20 but I'd have to research to be sure.>Vic-20That one actually did get a little support in Japan
>>12384639Why would someone pay 2.5 times the price for a less powerful machine in 1979? Or why would someone pay the price of multiple computers in 1983 for a machine that's less powerful than the other computers they could have bought for less money? Your argument makes no sense.
>>12384728And? Commodore computers weren't super popular in Japan but there was a scene for them and they had more listings than the Apple II.
>>12384639>Comparing the specs and prices or 2 different products is zoomer logicWhy don't you do everyone a favor and kys already?
>>12384743>Wow there's not a lot of software or support for this computer >If only I, someone who likes to program, could make software and games for this computer.Not saging because I want people to see how retarded you are.
>>12384778Which computer are you referring to?
>>12384778You're talking about someone buying their first computer ever you absolute retard
>>12384979I clearly wasn't, but whatever creams your cheese.
>>12384470In the case of Enix, they held a programming contest to find new talent, and the winners went to AppleFest in San Francisco in 83, which is where they discovered Wizardry.And Square's Sakaguchi has said he was a big fan of Nasir before they hired him and Nasir only made Apple II games before joining Square.
>>12384470You know, instead of writing an insanse cope blog about this you could've just read some interviews with Miyamoto, Horii and the bunch where they talk about how they were inspired by playing Apple II games...
>>12384470Games for the Japanese computers were also inspired by Western computer games. Mystery House by Microcabin was clearly inspired by Sierra's Mystery House for the Apple II for example.
>>12385053
>>12385053With the early console JRPG guys you can find stuff where they do mention playing earlier JRPGs (only logical), but one of them has always been open about his interest in the Apple II. The most you can doubt is that Ultima/Wizardry is the sole influence for "2nd gen JRPGs", but the Japanese progenitors they mention playing tend to be influenced by them anyway and around the same time Ultima & Wizardry saw local PC ports. No reason to not just point at the granddaddy as the then console-based audience isn't going to recognize much else and the difference is pretty minimal.When it comes to ADV games, it's pretty cut & dry. One of the more recognized early text adventure games I've played, Omotesando Adventure, introduces the genre as a foreign concept and iirc stuck with English to make for an easier introduction to other games like it (though I don't have a screenshot of that help screen). The early adventure years saw Starcraft port many Apple II originals as well which tended to be the style before the Japanese started experimenting with shortcuts and then menu-based ADV games as the art itself also moved on to their own styles.
>>12384997Someone buying a microcomputer in 1979-1983-ish is literally buying their first home computer ever.
>>12385016That's incredibly interesting. Where can I read more?
>>12385053Post a link to an interview by Miyamoto where he says he was inspired by Apple II games. More importantly, post one by Gunpei Yokoi since it's been claimed around here that Metroid copied an Apple II game.
>>12385109That's a bit different. You're talking about games where the developers specifically stated they were influenced by that. I'm talking about schizo posts on this board where anons claimed that everything was ripped off from American devs.
>>12385134Here's Miyamoto mentioning being inspired by Ultima for the character levelling in Zelda:https://youtu.be/QGDznMLLyIo?si=9q9jC01VfpG1umPk&t=3020
>>12385134>>12384470>schizo blogpost of schizo nonsense>entire board shits on himalways wonderful to see
>>12385132Can't find the interview where I first read about it, but there's also a manga about the development of Dragon Quest called Road to Dragon Quest that mentions their trip to SF and AppleFest.
>>12385179And the manga was published by Enix and Horii and Nakamura et al. were involved in the making of it.
>>12385132>tries to subtly call bullshit>gets utterly blown the fuck outyou love to see it
I know this is a thread made by a seething nintendy but Sakaguchi admitted they followed the Apple II western vidya scene, which is why they hired that Turkish celeb programmer guy in the first place. It's not outlandish to think they weren't the only ones interested. You have to remember that professionals and hobbyists aren't going to consume the same shit as the mainstream.
>>12385156Ultima was ported to everything under the sun, including several Western and Japanese platforms that were popular and had strong support in Japan. Just because he saw Ultima as an influence doesn't mean that he played it on an Apple II. The Black Onyx was also on Japanese computers.If we're going to make baseless bets, I'd say it's more likely he played it on an IBM PC than an Apple II.
>>12385179Oh that's awesome, I'll check that out. I've got. Preorder on the manga biography about him that releases later this month, I'm hoping it touches on Portopia and his way stuff but if not maybe the one you posted will deliver.
>>12385252I can see that reading comprehension isn't something you have. I never claimed that games where the developers specifically cited Apple II games as an inspiration weren't inspired by Apple II games.
>>12384751Why would someone imagine I have an argument and that it's something I never said when all I've done is mock a silly child and his ridiculous fan fiction that has more plot holes in it than his mad cow riddled brain?>>12384760>drawing real world conclusions bases on your personal fan fiction isn't zoomer logicClassic zoomer logic.
>>12384470It's always entertaining when weaboos discover that their HONOROBU SAMURAI weren't completely original geniuses and copied a ton of ideas from the place their self-loathing retard-asses despise; the west.>Do you really expect me to believe that employees at a NINTENDO were importing Apple II's and playing American games when they could have just gone to their local electronics shop and gotten a superior Japanese computer for a fraction of the cost? That's a schizo theory if I've ever heard one.Holy SHIT you're fucking retarded. Japanese computers were far from "superior". There's a reason all of the games on them were slow as ass and primarily revolved around RPG's and visual novels. Japanese computers were definitely superior for things like reading, CAD-like workflows, and business graphics...but that's about it. Western computers were literally superior in every single other regard:>Open or reverse-engineered BIOS allowed clones>One program could run on many machines>Faster upgrade cycles>Easier tool creation and quicker market access for said toolsAnd especially gaming, where you had hardware sprites, raster interrupts, and more VRAM than japanese computers. This led to even games on the Commodore 64 being more impressive than anything on the PC-8800, despite technically being weaker in a few, but quite large, regards.
>>12384470>FalcomFalcom literally started as a store that sold imported Apple ii computers lmao.
>>12384751Because from 1979-1982 that's where all the best devs were. Same reason the Apple ii kept selling in America even though superior machines kept coming out.
>>12385134>it's been claimed around here that Metroid copied an Apple II game.which game? Aztec?
>>12384470Holy crap, what am I even reading right now? Why does this thread exist?>Someone around here claimed that early Famicom/Japanese games were copied from apple ii gamesYes, that "someone" being several developers who have, for many years, gone on record stating that such-and-such a game, that they played on an Apple II, was their inspiration.>Apple didn't officially do business in Japan until 1983Apple began doing business in Japan in 1979, with the launch of the Apple II JPlus machines. Previous to this, Apple machines were imported and resold by Nihon Falcom, a company I somehow doubt you've ever heard of.>The NEC PC-8001 was better than an Apple II when it released in 1979Things like this make my butthole pucker.>It's clear that Famicom devs started out on Japanese computers, especially if you know anything about the early devs like HAL, Hudson, Falcom, Koei, etc.Wait until you find out that the original Final Fantasy was coded by a non-Japanese Apple II wizard using the built-in mini-assembler and an old school romulator. Make sure you're outside when you start your research. When your head explodes it should make for easier cleanup.>Do you really expect me to believe that employees at a NINTENDO were importing Apple II's and playing American gamesYes.>gotten a superior Japanese computerFolded over 1000 times. No gaijin. Yankee go home!
>>12386918>AI slop from a fucking idiotand it's still wrong. final fantasy was developed entirely using jap nec pc machines they had to import into the usa. you must be fucking retarded or something?
>>12384470>do you really think someone trying to sell a product to foreigners would be interested in what those foreigners are buying?Nah, seems absolutely retarded.
>>12386973>runs to ask ai>doesn't realize it's talking about 3 and not the original>even posts a picture from the development of 3, and it's still the wrong devI have no idea how much longer you're going to continue to embarrass yourself, but I'm looking forward to finding out.
>>12387130>when your mental breakdown is so severe that you convince your that a nes game was written using woz assembler on an apple 2not that anon but they used nec pc for all the games, many nes developers did btw, and there's nothing to suggest otherwise outside of a random tweet by john romero where mentions "mini assember" and nobody knows what the fuck he's on about. would love for your remaining iq point to explain to class how you can make a nes game using just the woz mini assembler. this should be totally not embarrassing for you, unlike when you have to report to your local police station due to sex offender register requirements.
>>12386918>>12387130>posts AI slop>still gets treated like a prostitute the boardHow much did it cost you for the tokens?
>>12387712Not that anon but epic cope. Very funny. Moar plz.
Belgium can come out with an RPG and no one screams "they copied Ultima reee." I wonder why that is...
>>12387920>I wonder why that is...Because (allegedly) it was one game (allegedly) produced by an irrelevant country.Because no one but you could possibly cope that hard.
>>12387920In your hypothetical, if people said "Belgian game developer was inspired by playing Ultima" nobody would bat an eye. I mean my response would be like "Oh, well yeah, that makes sense."There wouldn't be any waffle-boo analogues of (You) jumping up to write wall-of-cope OP posts claiming that it couldn't be true because, like, Belgium had high import fees for foreign electronics, maybe, therefore Belgian developers could never have been tainted by the bad old America!!!one!
>>12387712>not that anon buttotally that anon lolthe crash out is still not done
>I'm going to challenge a narrative>I'm going to bloviate a bunch of ill-informed weeaboo zoomer jackoff fantasy that absolutely *must* be true because japan is the greatest country on earth!This thread is keks. Well done.
>anons claim that everything from Metroid to Mother was ripped off from American games>op makes a decent argument based on hardware specs, cost, and system availability>retards who didn't even read the post have a meltdown crying that op is wrong because of the existence of handful of games like Dragon Quest where the devs stated they were inspired by Apple II games, entirely missing the point that op wasn't talking about those.>op abandons the thread (rightfully so) it devolves into further retardedness and AI slop.It seems op is primarily talking about Nintendo games, like the claim that Metroid is a ripoff of Aztec. Nintendo literally developed their games on NEC machines that were connected directly to special RAM carts for the Famicom, and importing expensive American computers literally goes against the entire engineering philosophy that Nintendo went by at the time.But that seems to be lost on you retards.
>>12389124>Anon gets near unanimous pushback from a retarded claim >Starts impersonating other people to try and win the argument Hopefully this will be a learning experience for you.
>>12389124I can't even imagine how stupid and embarrassed you must be feeling right now. This thread delivers, tho.
>>12389149>retarded claim>the claim:>Japanese computers were significantly cheaper and had better specsThat's not a claim, that's just reality.Also, take your meds schizo.>>12389152samefag
>>12389161I see you left out "And THEREFORE no Japanese devs ever played games on an Apple which proves that grorious nipponese gaming was never tainted by contact with the west!!!"Nobody's arguing that NEC computers weren't cheap, that's just one of the factual statements that OP has tried to build his delusional post-hoc theory upon while ignoring all the evidence that disproves said theory.
>>12389124>It seems op is primarily talking about Nintendo games, like the claim that Metroid is a ripoff of Aztec. Nintendo literally developed their games on NEC machinesSo in Nintendo's case it's more likely they played the PC-88 version of Aztec?
>>12389017>>12387863>everyone is crashing out except me!>the child sex offender that really believes a nes game was written on an apple 2!the absolute state of this board's talentless pedophiles: in shambles.
>>12389164>evidence>it's just anecdotal rants about how some jap faggots saw games on a piece of shit american computer released in the late 1970s>this means everyone used an apple 2 and it was influential>this disproves your theory>evidenceall i see are losers of the 8-bit computer wars trying to reinvent history into making the dumbest of dumb fuck retards believe how this piece of shit computer had influence.. in japan.. a market full of 8-bit and 16-bit computers - during the 1980s of all fucking decades. what's next? soon we will be seeing posts about how arcade designers were influenced by the atari 800 and daytona usa was programmed using a BBC micro?
When Nasir Gabelli joined Squaresoft, all the employees there knew about his games. They also made Nasir the face of the company and used him for marketing (long before Sakaguchi filled that role after Nasir left).None of his games had officially released in Japan. It's very gullible to think Japan was insular to the point of not knowing what goes on in the rest of the world. It's an industry, of course they're going to check out what the others do to remain on top of the competition (and re-use what works), without mentionning the fact that if devs had interest in games of course they'd have the curiosity on their own. They probably had import shops too.
>>12389189>>12389195>Hi, I'm OP, I've got brain problems, and I'm furious that my retarded weeb fanfiction is being openly mocked for the counterfactual horseshit that it isWe know.
>>12389206>everyone in japan was programming nes games on the nes!>trust me bro! really happened, everyone.down syndrome: the mental breakdown hour
>>12389209>everyone in japan was programming nes games on the nes!>shit no one said, or even impliedNow THIS is embarrassed flailing.
>>12384470Yeah everyone in Japan had an Apple 2! Everyone stole all their ideas from it and all the japanese manufacturers copied it. Steve Jobs was so well respected that when he and Steve Wozniack visited the country people lined up for many kilometers to suck on Woz's massive penis while jobs was jacking off next to him. It was a glorious day. and then everyone clapped and bowed!>>12389206>>12389214Yes. This is true. Nasir wrote everything, not in assembler, but typing hex numbers into wozmon. Then he just prayed to Allah and the data magically turned into a complete NES rom. The Japanese people were so inspired that they made him Emperor!
>>12389215I take it back. THIS is embarrassed flailing.
>>12389216>4chan's resident lying pedophile destroyed in his own thread.. again: the threadi wonder what other fantasy stories this schizo loser has to share? maybe nba jam arcade machine was written using a commodore c64?
>>12389217>his own threadYou're the schizo OP zoomie, though! JEJ
>>12389219>schizo pedophile's amazing tales go up in flameshilarious
>>12389217Did you know that Sega Rally was written using a Commodore Amiga 500 because someone saw Giana Sisters? True story btw. Proof? i have none.
>>12389223that's far more believable than someone using wozmon to code a nes rom.
>maybe i can still play this off like i was just trolling the whole time>time to start samefagging and changing my posting style so it looks like more than one person was in on the "joke" and they're talking to each other>ohh, better throw in as much reductio ad absurdum as i can too, makes the samefag trolling playoff more believableIt's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for him.
Yuji Naka programmed Sonic the Hedgehog on an Amiga computer because it used a Motorola 68000 just like the Sega Genesis, making development easier
>>12389229 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONO GRORIOUS NOPPON DEVE HAS EVER TOUCHEED A NOT NIPPIN PEECEE MADE OUT OF CARBON STEAL FOLDED 1000X TIMES
>>12389164>And THEREFORE no Japanese devs ever played games on an AppleThat was never the claim. The claim was literally that Nintendo wasn't buying Apple II's, which is true because they developed their games on NEC systems that were connected to special RAM cartridges plugged into Famicom's for testing. There's loads of interview footage from that era where you can literally see the computers sitting on their desks. Maybe you should go watch some.
>>12389235>Moving the goalposts againAll this cope to avoid acknowledging that numerous Japanese devs said in interviews that they were inspired by Apple II games that they had played
>>12389178Depending on the year it released for PC-8801 it's possible but Nintendo devs working on Metroid said that their inspirations for the game were Zelda and Mario. Mario for structure, and Zelda for nonlinear exploration and progression.
>>12389235No, the claims were that>Apple didn't officially do business in Japan until 1983This bullshit got promptly blown up and laughed at.>apple2z was expensuve af no cap on godYeah, they were. Pretty much everywhere.>It's clear that Famicom devs started out on Japanese computersExcept this isn't clear, and it's one of the bigger reasons you've been getting laughed at all thread, other than your general lulzy lolcow behavior.>especially if you know anything about the early devs like HAL, Hudson, Falcom, Koei, etc.>FalcomThe irony of mentioning Falcom is almost palpable, as I'm sure you now know.>Do you really expect me to believe that employees at a NINTENDOOnly here, in the last paragraph of your fanfiction, do you finally mention Nintendo. For all your humorous flailing, it's still unclear whether or not your original post was talking about Famicom devs in general, or Nintendo specifically.
>>12389201>shit I pulled out of my assYou know all of the marketing materials are archived online right?
>>12389229Did he really? Based if true. Amigas had a small but strong following in Japan. I forgot the location but there's a shop in Tokyo that still has the "Commodore Amiga" sign hanging up because the owner just loved his Amiga so much even after all these years.
>>12389236The goalpost was never moved, you just didn't read the op because it's longer than 2 sentences.
>>12389243>Except this isn't clearYes it is clear. Devs weren't using microcomputers to develop NES games. Go watch interviews from that era and look in the background, they've all got PC's.>The irony of mentioning Falcom is almost palpableThe CEO or Coca Cola doesn't drink his own product, what makes you think that a store selling Apple II clones means that the owners all played Apple II games? And what makes you think they ripped them off when their games were very different.>it's still unclear whether or not your original post was talking about Famicom devs in general, or Nintendo specificallyMaybe if you knew how to read.
>>12389260>Devs weren't using microcomputers to develop NES games.>spends the entire thread flailing about how devs were using nec branded microcomputers to develop nes games?>store selling apple II clones??
>>12389239The PC-88 and FM-7 ports were released in '84 and the Sharp X1 port the year after.It's quite interesting to look at what Western games were popular enough in Japan to get ports to Japanese computers actually. The Phantasie series by SSI for example, which started out on the Apple II, was apparently successful enough that Winston Douglas Wood was asked to make a fourth game exclusively for the Japanese market.
>>12389395I recall reading that Comptiq paid out the ass (relatively) for some of those western action game licenses, but I can't find any details again. Didn't note anything down about that though, just me whining about how I didn't like the ports. Must've been grouchy.
>>12389395According to Kawazu, the first SaGa game was named Makai Toushi to give it a similar feel to the title of a bootleg version of Phantasie he saw in Hong Kong.https://dengekionline.com/elem/000/000/988/988659/So it was big enough to have pirate versions of it.
