Why does Fallout 2 feels soo bloated compare to the first game?Whenever I tried to replay it, I just give up half way through.
>>12394031>non-linear RPGs having content is a bad thingFallout 2 has a lot of flaws, but thinking having stuff to do is certainly a strange one. You don't have to do every single side quest, and New Reno is what The Strip wishes it was.
>>12394031because players cried about the time limit in the first game and not being able to fuck around as much as they wanted to. the devs had enough assets locked down to crank out content easily so they went "ok let's go" and made a big sequel.
>>12394039>because players cried about the time limit in the first game and not being able to fuck around as much as they wanted to.That's the best part about Fallout 1. It actually fits the theme of desperation and add tons of replay value to it.
>>12394043yeah. Fallout 1 was what everybody was waiting for in the sense that it played out like a pen and paper RPG where your decisions could actually upheave what the GM had in mind for the campaign. before this game released it was a pipe dream to have this level of freedom of choice in a computer roleplaying game.
>>12394049>Fallout 1 was what everybody was waiting forI was actually waiting for Wasteland 2, but that took forever to come out.
>>12394212any good? I was totally burnt out on RPGs when it dropped.
>>12394223Haven't played it yet, but I heard good things.By the time it came out I was not very interested in cRPGs anymore, but I feel like I ought to play it one of these days, since I loved the first game so much.
>>12394031because it is bloated
>>12394031Why do so many fags engage in generation wars and refuse to just like two different games without having to whine that they aren't the exact same thing or rank them like anyone gives a fuck?
>>12394031People hate to admit it but it’s more reddit than f3 and nv. Jokes are horrible
>>12394373Because bitching about retarded shit gets engagement here
>>12394234Not the original anon. But I've played Wasteland 2 over and over when it was jarringly in beta. I have played and completed the director's edition too.The first part i.e Arizona is excellent, in terms of story and tension. I really felt like you were emerging into a world ravaged by nuclear war and weird ass unknowns. LA feels like it was either rushed or the creative team ran out of ideas.I'd like to hear what others in this thread think.The other gripe I have with it is, you kinda need to create your character's classes perfectly to achieve maximum efficiency with how they fight/interact with the world around them otherwise you are missing out of content. I felt this to be glaringly obvious with the bashing class and speech checks associated with the bashing class/blunt weapons.
>>12394031It was basically several major writers each making as much content as Fallout 1 had all together on their own then gluing it together at the end without any concern for consistency or coherent depth. And one of them (Colin McComb) fucking sucked.
>>12394043Granted, it did break the flow in Fallout 2 when you're getting these visions from home about how your village is dying, and instead of looking for the GECK you're busy dicking around trying to bone a trophy wife and her daughter in New Reno. But, to me it felt like a much grander adventure because of all the crazy side stuff you can get into. I also liked the fact that you can become ridiculously overpowered, with a whole posse decked out in power armor and upgraded weapons from the basement guy, as opposed to Fallout 1 where you are still vulnerable towards the end.
>>12395148there was a ton of content cut from the Arroyo/GECK arc that would've made the main quest feel more urgent. maybe some of it's been restored but it's been a while since I messed with restoration patches. I know you were going to have a rival from Arroyo who would show up from time to time to cause trouble.>Fallout 1 where you are still vulnerable towards the end.if you get the turbo plasma rifle in FO1 you can cheese the military base without breaking a sweat. the Enclave always felt harder to me since the goons can sometimes bypass your armor with crits.
>>12395426>I know you were going to have a rival from Arroyo who would show up from time to time to cause trouble.They did readd that, as well as the whole arc about Sulik's sister and their tribe, its pretty neat but its understandable why both were cut since they just weren't fleshed out very well besides another small settlement and a slaver pen. Koga just runs away a few times and comes back stronger in different encounters..
Maybe Fallout 2 can be modded to be good. I don't know much about it but yeah it feels like we're in a new age of fixing bad games. Fallout 2 is one of those games where it just needs some fixes to be a great time
>>12395483what would you change about it?
>>12395496Whatever their favorite youtuber complained about, clearly
>>12395496>>12395502I've never played it. But yeah I've heard a lot about it having issues. Don't know how true that is - but if like OP is saying it sort of wastes your time with boring expositions than yeah that has me agreeing too. I love how short and too the point Fallout 1 is. The open-world 3D games also waste your time immensely with bullshit fetch quests. Put simply I will always prefer a short directed experience over scale.
>>12395523Games used to be about getting your money's worth, and replay value was a great way to do that. If you expect to accomplish everything it has to offer in an afternoon, thats not the fault of the game, especially in the year 1998. Complaints about its humor/pop culture references vary from valid to hyperbolic, but complaining there's too much shit to do is fucking stupid.
>>12395583>complaining there's too much shit to do is fucking stupid.No, it's not. Again, "increasing value" can reduce quality of the game. This is not difficult to understand. No, you are not making your game better by adding more to it necessarily
>>12395590A similar example would be Diablo 1 to Diablo 2. Some people actually prefer Diablo 1. I'm not one of those people, and I guess ultimately how much the added content is worth your time is completely personal. It's a fine balance. For me ultimately I don't think I could play any Diablo game ever again, I just feel the gameplay has aged so poorly. But the vibes are excellent. Diablo is still cool as fuck. Same thing with Fallout. Maybe what Fallout 2 is so cool that you power through every second of lore of that world and eat it all up. I'm sure the gameplay in Fallout is way way way way way better than Diablo, too.Other factors also at play here like how much free time you have. There is much to discuss when it comes to game length
>>12395590> "increasing value" can reduce quality of the game. You don't have to do any of it you fucking brainlet. You can beat the game in 15 fucking minutes if you really want, the content is equal parts world building and a chain of events that continuously nudge you in the right direction. Trying to play this kind of game 100% on your first run is a player problem, not a game design one. Even the fucking script changes depending on your IN rating alone, let alone the amount of branching paths events create between each other. Fuck your "but respect my time" horseshit.>No, you are not making your game better by adding more to it necessarilyThats not the same thing, you're moving the goalposts. I already said that things like the pop culture references and special encounters can be validly criticized, but again, almost every single element down to trying to find Vic from the start is entirely optional. I know in 3 and on you get railroaded through multiple mandatory story beats, but the only ones that are necessary in 2 are to prepare the tanker to get to the rig, and the rig itself. You can even skip 13 and get a geck there.
Protip: You don't have to do ALL the contentAlso, are you playing the restoration patch? it adds a ton of bloat, all of it low quality.
>>12395614>You don't have to do any of it you fucking brainlet. You can beat the game in 15 fucking minutes if you really want,That's good to know. But wouldn't you NEED to know that to do it? The point is that you're bumbling around doing tons of shit that is inconsequential because you've lost track of the main path.I'm also reminded of BG2 a game I think I put 100 hours in but it was all side-content. I never beat the game but put that much time in because there was just that much stuff and I had no idea what was even the main path anymore. Ultimately while I respect such games, I don't really like them. It's too overwhelming. But then again it'd be kind of impossible to do the game any other way, With Fallout it kind of is possible because the world is a wasteland
>>12395632>That's good to know. But wouldn't you NEED to know that to do it? No, thats my point. Most "main" and side quests provide hints on routes that naturally have you follow a relative circuit through the regions of the game relative to the difficulty progression in encounters, so you can naturally completely miss entire settlements and cities as you go. You don't go down a fucking checklist with waypoint markers on an on screen hud, people do shit like mention a place like the NCR and its general location, maybe marking it on your map, and what is considered the main quest is basically just a path of least resistance. You're supposed to actually roleplay these types of games rather than going down a fucking walkthrough telling you what is in each place.>I'm also reminded of BG2 a game I think I put 100 hours in but it was all side-content.Games like BG 1 and 2 are similar in how non-linear progression can be to a point, but they still have set progression beats that need to be hit. Part of what makes Fallout 2 stand out from even 1 is how few are actually required, as the water chip to army base/cathedral pipeline is pretty loose by most standards while the Arroyo to San Fran to Rig one is even less restrictive. You can try to do a bit of everything in a run or you can condense it to skip what you want and/or boost the challenge by going straight to endgame at level 1, its literally the most "time respecting" game in the series.>It's too overwhelming.Thats valid, but its a personal problem that can be overcome. Its not a flaw in the game by any stretch.
>>12395623I found it annoying that some dialogue was mention in the base game turns out to be a cut content. Like Sulik's sister and Followers of the Apocalypse's spy quest for example.Thankfully it's playable in restoration patch, but sadly underwhelming.
>>12396597Some of it didn't really develop enough in time, which the restoration patch does a decent job with when it can. The EPA in particular feels like it would have been a great addition to the game in its finished form, but the Primitive Tribe sidequest basically put a location equivalent to Arroyo in scope in the mid-late game areas, so it was kind of awkward. Still really neat from a lore perspective, but I can see why it was cut. The orphanage in the Den also might have gone a little too far in terms of how dark it got about children in the wasteland (mostly the kid's dad, what actually happens is tame and kinda wholesome) so it was probably an executive decision as kids in the game were a thin ice subject in the first place. Its really cool we get to see what would have come of all of that stuff now though.
