I truly believe that if Sega had survived and Nintendo had gone under or moved to handhelds only, gaming would be in a better place today.This isn't another delusional "Sega should have won" fanboy thread. I judge consoles based on games, not who made them. But my argument boils down to this: Sega and Sony being the top two contenders in late 90s would have pushed each other to new heights that would have prevented Western slop getting a foothold in the 2000s. Instead we got Sony dominance, with Nintendo doing its own thing (appealing to children with a few token teen games thrown in) which ultimately opened up a spot for Xbox and PC to challenge Sony. If Sega had launched Saturn better in the West, I can guarantee you it would have outsold N64. A Sony and Sega rivalry would have pushed each other to be their best, making games for all ages, and it would have caused every generation to be better than the last up until present day. PC would have still emerged as a juggernaught, but Japanese systems would have still been worth owning alongside a PC due to quality exclusives unlike the drought we've had the last 20 years.
>>12425676>Japanese systems would have still been worth owning alongside a PCThis is the reality you live in. The only major western console has been in a vegetable like state on life support for over a decade.
>>12425682Sony is in a vegetable like state too, but I think you are missing the point. Sony/Sega dominance in the 2000s would have prevented modern game trends. Ie open world/online over-dominance, micro transactions. JRPGs, Fighting games, Shmups would still be dominant genres today.
Did you know this would happen back in 2001? I had a strong sense that things would never get better creatively after SEGA folded in the first quarter of '01.
>>12425676>Sega and Sony being the top two contenders in late 90s would have pushed each other to new heights that would have prevented Western slop getting a foothold in the 2000sAre you retarded? Sega was pushing arcade-style games for two generations in a row -- Saturn and then Dreamcast. They stagnated while Nintendo focused on delivering gameplay, and Sony focused more on presentation. Sony's focus on presentation is what ultimately led to modern games. It started with the God of War series which had very bland gameplay but "mature gamers" stroked their dix at the in-game cinematics and "muh mature storyline", then continued in a different form with Uncharted, Last of Us.
>>12425676Can literally still feel the gaping hole that SEGA left behind in the gaming landscape. Sony was always shit. If Sony had died nothing of value would have been destroyed.
>>12425696>Ie open world/online over-dominance, micro transactions.Literally what? EA, Bethesda, and Blizzard were mostly responsible for that. Microsoft is probably the largest culprit for these things since it all mostly began with CoD4 and gamerbros, Oblivion horse armor, Blizzard WoW brain hijacking. It doesn't have anything to do with Nintendo
>>12425765I think he's saying Nintendo completely failed at courting the dudebro market, which opened the door for the XBox to become second place.
Nothing could have saved them. Gamers wanted something different from what SEGA offered. Now we have the industry from 7th gen and onwards.
>>12425770>Nothing could have saved them Nonsense, as hundreds of threads have shown us, there's plenty that could have saved them, because they botched a lot of things. This isn't about "what could have saved them" though, this is about "what if they had been saved, what effect would that have on the gaming landscape afterwards"
>>12425676no
sega would just be like microsoft
>>12425676>If Sega had launched Saturn better in the West, I can guarantee you it would have outsold N64Say the Saturn launches in September as was originally planned in the US. Then what? It still doesn't have enough Western-appealing games. No Sonic, while N64 has Mario on day 1. Also funny that you bitch about "Western slop" when that was the bread and butter of the Genesis library, which succeeded.
>>12425765I'm saying Nintendo didn't provide adequate competition to Sony, Sony became complacent in the mid 2000s. If Sega was its primary competitor, they would have pushed Sony to do better and vice versa.>>12425768This.>>12425793Games being popular in the U.S doesn't make them "Western Slop", being developed in the west does.
>>12425809>Games being popular in the U.S doesn't make them "Western Slop", being developed in the west does.Half of the best selling Genesis games are literally that
>>12425809>Games being popular in the U.S doesn't make them "Western Slop", being developed in the west does.You lost me. Lots of western games are good. I thought by slop you meant the Ubisoft-tier "open world" AAA shit that gets cranked out now in the post-Xbox landscape, but if you just mean anything developed in the West == bad, then I'm afraid you suck and are retarded.
>>12425676Sega literally *was* Sony's main competition from 94 to 96 you giant retard (and up to 97 in Europe). That is precisely why the Saturn underperformed: during its first years Sony specifically targetted the same player base and market share as Sega's (teens, young adults and hardcore gamers in general), before widening their target (to 'just about everyone').Or is this a new kind of 'I'm pretending to be retarded to shit on the Saturn' thread? If so here is a protip for you: pretending to be retarded *is* retarded
>>12425768That's a retarded argument though. It's like saying no one watches basketball because hockey exists to fill a sports niche. It doesn't make sense. Those types of games are popular because they appeal to a specific type of person. There will always be paypigs. The worst offenders now aren't even Ubishit games -- they're anime loli gatcha garbage and Fifa lootboxes and shit, and it's not Xbox dudebros playing that.
>>12425676>This isn't another delusional "Sega should have won" fanboy thread.Yes it is. You're just writing Alternate Reality fanfiction to justify it.
>>12425676Sony not being in the console business at all would have saved gaming
>>12425696Sega literally started a game streaming service in the 90s that you pay a subscription for and dlc on Dreamcast. The cancer was inevitable because tards paid for it.
>>12425676>be on the sega xbox>pic related.my hot take is sega was better off as a software publisher and arcade machine maker. they made seriously GOATest arcade games.
>>12425676Sega made games you rent and beat in a week. They failed to compete and survive.
>>12425676Would XBox still have emerged if that was the case?
>>12426047How? Nintendo and Sega crashed the 16 bit market, PlayStation saved gaming.
>>12427131>hollywood made movies you rent and watch in less than 2 hr.>they must have failed!huh? i'm sure the "forever" games like most of the 4X games made less money than Sega arcade games and SANIC.>>12427241i don't remember it crashing at all. there was lots of crap but not on the level of Atari 8bit crap.
>>12425696>Sony is in a vegetable like state tooThey're literally in the process of focusing on Playstation exclusives and not porting their games to PC. That indicates that they have some sort of confidence in their brand, i.e. they're not really vegetables.I never got console warriors man. They literally think like retarded children and can't see the signs of a business failing or succeeding and have to make shit up in order to justify their favorite brand winning. It goes double when you consider that they can just go full idort and buy/emulate every single console from Sony to Sega and Nintendo and Microsoft from the NES/Genesis to the PS3/X360/Wii with ease rather than do Death Battle type thinking over corporations that won't even pay them for their fanboyism
>>12428320Anyone online are people not playing games.As soon as you get that. The better off everyone is.
>>12428346Yeah I forgot. I'll just go back to playing games.
nice fanfiction, pass the joint next time, alright?
>>12428694don't worry we only get 12 of these "what if" threads a day
>>12428320>I never got console warriors man.I think it originated with being a poorfag and getting stuck with one console, or rather one brand of consoles, and thus ending up in some kind of sunk-cost fallacy. I had almost every console as a kid and I never cared about any of this shit. All of them had games I liked.
>>12428710That might be part of it, but even as an adult, you can just buy two or more systems. My friends had both an Xbox and PS2 and later a PS3 and Xbox 360 and Wiiin college 15 years ago. It's like these turns forgot that they are adults now and can just get any system they want without getting married to it.Just goes to show you common sense isn't common really.
>>12427304>hollywood made movies you rent and watch in less than 2 hr.>they must have failed!Video stores would carry 50+ copies of movies, they didn't carry 50+ copies of games. You're really being absolutely stupid right now. Sega did actually fail too, prove to me they're as successful as Hollywood.
>>12425676Dude, you have to accept the reality of things, the PlayStation killed SEGA and Nintendo survived, that's it.
Nah, what would have saved gaming is SEGA and Nintendo being the two big platforms to this day. No Sony, no Microsoft. Just SEGA vs Nintendo like the good old days...
>>12425896He is right thoGaming would have been great without microsoft, especially after the 6th generation
>>12429718sony did far more damage to gaming than microsoft though
>>12429735It was Microsoft that opened the flood gates for paid dlcs, half-baked games, generic hardware architecture, predatory microtransactions, premium subscriptions, pay to play online, marketing budget over product quality... the list goes on
They would've still cucked to Blackrock globohomo like they have now and their titles would be just as bland and "modern audience" slopified as sony's
>>12429762Babahahah gaempass
>>12425765Sega literally pioneered most of the garbage you see today in games. Shenmue was the largest open world do whatever you want game that GTA copied. Dreamcast was online heavy, you could even play Quake 3 cross platform against PC players, but they also pushed online with Saturn and had an online subscription service for the Genesis. They were the first to offer DLC equivalent with the Knuckles lock-on cart where they sold you one game for the price of two. Shit, they had hardware DLCs with the 32x and Sega CD.Plus they kept re-selling their existing games on new platforms all the time, second only to Nintendo.The only cancer Sega did not pioneer was microtransactions, because they were too early for that, and movie games because they are an arcade company at heart... unless you count Night Trap and all the other garbage FMV titles.
>>12425793>Then what? It still doesn't have enough Western-appealing games.The problem wasn't the games, it was that every store wrote off Sega completely after the surprise launch, and they launched with so few Saturns that they could not supply everyone. The stores that got left out thought that Sega was leaving them out of the loop, and they stopped carrying their products nationwide. Which Sega had to buy back under contract, driving them bankrupt.September Saturn launch means they have all their advertising ready, they have enough units to supply every store, and they don't piss off retailers so much that they send back millions of products. Saturn still sells like shit just slightly less so because now you can actually buy the console in stores. But more importantly all their other consoles/games are still carried in stores too so they generate some small profit instead of going tens of millions of dollars into the red.So it wouldn't have saved the Saturn, but it absolutely would have saved Sega.
>>12431420If we are going to count Sonic & Knuckles as DLC then the practice would have originated in 1982 with Wizardry II.
>>12429697>Video stores would carry 50+ copies of movies, they didn't carry 50+ copies of games.thank you, moved goalposts.>you stupid ok!!!!man in the mirror.
>>12431526This. I mean Sega did test runs of a lot of dumb shit, presumably looking for novel revenue streams, but comparing them to Sony is like comparing a guy who experimented with fucking dudes in college a time or two with the guy who built the floats for the gay pride parade with the profits from his gently-used dragon dildo business.
>>12431550>Sega made games you rent and beat in a week. They failed to compete and survive.Goal post hasn't moved. Sega failed to survive. Show me where they didn't die off and become nothing. You are adding nothing to this conversation and likely expecting an outcome where come out on top, which is very Sega of you.
>>12425696>sneaking shmups in there kek yeah right
>>12425676SEGA being Nintendo's competitor would have saved gaming. Big corporations should fuck off from the gaming industry.
>>12425696>Ie open world/online over-dominanceSega was the first console dev to push that crap, you've heard of Phantasy Star Online and Shenmue right
>>12425696SEGA pioneered online gaming and DLC for consoles, retardthe Xbox was just a Dreamcast with a bigger budget
>>12435268True, but if you think there's no difference between Microsoft and Sega I don't know what to say to you
>>12425676If only Sega stuck to their guns with the planned "Saturnday" (September 2nd) launch of the Saturn in North American.
>>12425676There's no possible timeline where both SEGA and Sony consoles exist simultaneously except maybe a Saturn still fails but somehow Dreamcast doesn't (almost impossible). Nintendo survives anyways due to first party excellence and handhelds. The only years that matter are 94-96 to determine who will be the disc-based system receiving all the third party titles, and if the publishers choose SEGA then the PlayStation ends up being just another failed attempt by a giant corporation to take over the console market like the TurboGrafx and the Stadia.
SEGA lost, Nintendo won. It's been over 3 decades. You NEED to get over it. Your elderly parents are beyond upset they're not getting grandchildren from you.
>>12425676Seha was only good because they were an arcade developer, while Nintendo just focused on vasual games. However arcade games were destined to die out in a way, because it's just not a good system. People want to play at home and own the games, not pay for every single credit. The whole arcade game format was build around this. Thus when arcades died, the games also weren't developed anymore. Nintendo was smart in a way, because they never focused on this dying game style but just made money by pandering to normie cattle.
