>>12427476
Story and characters are pretty fucking bad though but that's okay because it's fucking pokemon

zoomer faggot

I know, you've been spamming every single pokemon thread with your zoomer taste, begone

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>>12427476
>the second (2nd) most interesting plot/story
>the best pacing
>the best graphics
>the best group of town themes
>the best group of battle themes
>the best opening and ending theme
>the best soundfont
>the best competitive foundation and the best balancing
>the best movedex
>satisfactory technical progression
>the best performance
>the best extracurricular activities and "sidequests"
>the best postgame facilities
>the best character designs
>the best isolated dex
>the best region and map design
>the best level design
>the best encounter design (though missing mons)
>the best cover
>the most sought after and expensive cartridge
>the best looking cartridge
>best spinoffs
>best companion remakes

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>>12427482
>>12427486
RSE is late millennial ludo

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>>12427480
>Story and characters are pretty fucking bad though
not in the least

>>12427476
>baby's first jrpg
play a real game retard

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>>12427559
Gen III Pokemon has the best turn-based JRPG combat system ever designed in gaming history.

>>12427575
>>12427476
no. post all the Moemon sprites.

>>12427548
by your logician, i should spam a Tetris topic every week because sales number good.

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>>12427589
RSE would have outsold Gen I if GSC hadn't already decimated consumer confidence in the brand, leaving Gen III to pick up the pieces

>>12427476
Based

Fuck off back to your containment board.
>>>/vp/

>peak atmosphere
>70% of the map is water

Lol

>>12427554
>posts the game that ruined the narrative completely
Yikes!

>>12427476
>worst pokemon distibution
>best game play
Water getting a physical weakness would have made it perfection.Poison? Flying? Hell, steel? Also swap ghost-dark special/physical.

why did you not say peak aesthetics? this means something

I'm playing johto right now. I just got pokeballs and I already have a rock type (geodude) and water type (poliwag). Favorite start to a pokemon game that I've played so far. Though, six zigzagoon to start is a pretty fun meme.

>>12428150
>>worst pokemon distibution
Doesn't it objectively have some of the best, with a huge variety of Pokemon available before the first gym?

>>12428737
Fuck, I haven't even beaten the first gym yet and I just got a grass type (bellsprout) and now a ghost type (gastly).

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>>12428159
it does have peak aesthetics though

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>>12428743
ofc
hoenn hater = johtoddler

>>12428743
Are we really measuring things based on the first gym?

>rock paper scissors: the video game
>8 year olds go wild
lol

>>12427476
People say this is when the unoriginality of Pokémon began but this game was the first to actually do a lot of the stuff that became the formula for the proceeding generations (legendary myth story, new villain team, etc)

gen 3 games were horrible. if it was for fire red leaf green it would have killed the entire franchise with that gen. the only ones worse than emerald ruby and sapphire were diamond and pearl and black and white and x y. wait they're all shitty after crystal.

>>12427546
no. ruby sapphire and emerald are objectively the worst in the series tied with diamond pearl platinum. the only ones worse are the Lets Go games (which arent retro)

>>12428737
>>12428775
yeah i love kantomons too

>>12429097
Because?

>>12427476
lol the ugliest gen, better stories and music found elsewhere too. 'grats

>>12429097
1. Lets Go Pikachu is a remake of Yellow
2. it's really god damn good, along with remasters of the best music in the series

hate for that game isn't just unwarranted, it's absolute retardation

>>12429315
I agree it gets too much hate but it has shit I don't agree with. Like how catching Pokemon gave your team exp and some of the gym restrictions were stupid. The rival is dumb too. Otherwise it's a solid 8/10 Pokemon game.

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>>12429097
>>12429092

>>12429092
crystal is fucking gay

>>12428957
You gotta go back and play Pokemon if you think that's all there is.

Pokemon is peak bro

>>12429278
Yeah, it does kantomons better. Kanto is mostly normal/bug/poison type until you reach lavender town, then the type roster starts expanding a bit more.
The day-night cycle does some heavy lifting with pokemon distribution.

>>12429769
>Pokemon is peak bro
No self-respecting male adult should ever say or think this
You may like it, you may enjoy it, anything else is cringe on a level so shameful it should be illegal

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>>12427476
>For me it’s the gen3 games
Everything around gen3 is perfect.

>>12427482
>>12427486
>>12427548
Gen 3 is also late zoomer tier
>t.zoomer

>>12429989
>needing 5 games and 2 GameCube games to complete the dex is good
>can't even get all legendaries because events are the worst idea ever

>>12430006
Yes, everyone knows that sucks. But the amount of soul is immeasurable. And looking back, the GameCube games are also really good. But yea, especially timed/ticket events suck so much.

>>12428958
>legendary myth story
what does this even mean, mewtwo was a legendary myth.
>new villain team
are you actually implying that Gen 3 wasnt unoriginal because it remade team rocket? Its not unoriginal because it was the first to be unoriginal. What are you even saying.

>>12430010
>Yes it sucks but did you consider for one second that I would invoke the powerful "SOUL" spell nullifying all your criticisms and shielding me behind and ambiguous descriptor that cannot be agreed upon or disputed. The soul is immeasurable because noone on earth possesses the knowledge to measure soul! Its the perfect defense! I also place one monster face down in defense mode and end my turn.

>>12430082
I'm sorry sage, I kneel. The dex/event/100devices argument is valid, but even with those "flaws" I still think Gen 3 and everything around it, is just perfect.

>>12430076
mewtwo is a manmade creature, gen 2 was the first to do the kami thing though, gen 3 just upped the stakes

Stadium games >>>>>>> Orre games

Literally second town inti Colosseum and you're already doing the worst hrpg trope of already knowing what to do but you MUST talk to these npcs in a specific order crap.
Just let me battle for fucks sake

>>12430006
You technically don't need the GameCube games, but it's a real bitch without them. Gotta clear Emerald three times with a full regional dex to get all the Johto starters, for example.

>>12427591
Where did this attitude come from? I started with R/B and both my and pretty much everyone I know who started then sees G/S/C as the peak of the series.

>>12431369
Gen 5+ zoomers

I'm a hoenbabby myself and GSC is indeed the peak of the series

>>12431369
It's a mentally ill zoomer that's clearly been bullied by gen 1+2 chads otherwise why is he going around every Pokemon thread screaming about how good gen 3 is like its his life's mission.
If gen 3 was as good as he says it is (it isn't) then it should be able to defend itself from scrutiny (it can't)

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>>12429989
>sapphire on a rainy 2003 afternoon
pretty comfy desu

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>>12431375
>>12431418
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I liked Saphire just fine, but it's when the series started to feel gimicky trying not to get stale in my eyes. And I'm playing through the switch port of Fire Red right now along side one of my friends who originally got me into the series (catching nidorans for him atm) and I still think it's solid. But that notion that gen 3 was making up for a bad gen 2 is just bonkers.

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>>12429989
Gen III is so good it even has the best Johto game

>>12431369
>"I'm a johtoddler and my other johtoddler friends all think gen too is peak"
okay?

>>12431375
you're a retarded falseflagging faggot that has been keeping this schtick up for a year, is what you actually are

>>12431515
I was 22 when it came out, so not exactly a toddler and yes. You're free to like S/R the best, but at least in my experience of people who played the series since the start that's a not an opinion I've heard.

>>12427476
The pinball game is good too

I really don't get why gen iii has such a bad wrap. Anything you could be bitter about, like not transferring your gen 1-2 mons, doesn't really affect you anymore. The games taken by their own merits are objectively aesthetic masterpieces.

>>12431523
dont reply to him, hes been doing the same shtick for years. Hes not here to have a thoughtful discussion.

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>>12427476
I shant buy all this to collect them all.

>>12431661
>bonjour, one copy of pokemon rubis sil vous plait

>>12429989
Dumb zoomer who missed out on pokemania

>>12430103
This. I like the Orre games for what they are, but they're good ideas that aren't particularly well executed. It's a shame that they didn't make any more 'proper JRPG-style' games, oh well

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>>12431569
>I really don't get why gen iii has such a bad wrap
it doesn't
>Anything you could be bitter about, like not transferring your gen 1-2 mons
that's exactly what johtoddlers are bitter about
>doesn't really affect you anymore
won't resolve their childhood trauma of not being able to keep their plushymon johtoys
>The games taken by their own merits are objectively aesthetic masterpieces.
indeed; well-known

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>>12431689
your favorite game killed Pokemania
definition of a sophomore slump

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It's very very difficult for johtoddlers to cope with this statement.

Impossible, actually.

Hence why you never see them do it, and instead ignore it or deflect to something entirely irrelevant.

Just watch.

>>12431569
I will never, ever get over that they cut off Gens 1+2. Fuck em
>12431727
>12431734
Retards

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>>12431735
thanks for proving my point, local random toddie

>12431739
Not an argument, I think all of the first 251 mons look neat

Honest question, why is it that people liking gen 2 makes certain subsets of pokemon fans seethe so much? Like, I have my preferences, but if other people prefer different things I say good on them, doesn't affect me one way or another. What exactly is going on here?

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>>12427476
soft-rebooting the series after the absolute disaster that was gen pwo was the best decision ever made for this franchise

Honest question, why is it that people liking gen 3 makes certain subsets of pokemon fans seethe so much? Like, I have my preferences, but if other people prefer different things I say good on them, doesn't affect me one way or another. What exactly is going on here?

>>12431752
Who seethes when someone says they like gen 3? Provide one (1) example

>>12431765
see >>12427482
then kys

>>12431751
See >>12431689

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>>12431772
poor Pokemania, lasted only a couple years before getting mercilessly snuffed out by FiGSCher PriGSCe

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>>12431776
You missed out on Pokemania

>>12431569
They're Pokemon games, they should be judged by their state on release. Obviously you can fix some of their issues nowadays through intervention, but that doesn't mean a thing for those who lived through Gens 1 and 2 and had to put up with Gen 3 being a massive downgrade, nor anyone who wants to play them on original hardware. The passage of time won't suddenly make the games have day and night or weekly cycles, either. As noted in multiple posts, the games have a severe lack of Pokemon availability, to the point that the series' main western slogan was dropped unceremoniously because it was now impossible.

They have a great graphical style, and I think their mon additions were quite good. If they hadn't removed so many features and cut off previous Gen support while providing no real alternative other than to buy the same games over again a year and a half later they would have had a warmer reception from existing fans, and thus a better lasting legacy. As a first exposure to Pokemon, I can see how someone would be amazed and have extremely good memories regardless, not knowing what they were missing. They're not bad games by any means. But I remember it feeling like it took until Gen 4 for the franchise to start moving forward again with the reintroduction of multiple basic Gen 2 features as well as the much needed physical/special split.

>>12431807
>Gen 3 being a massive downgrade
Nobody felt that way at the time. In every single tangible way, gen 3 fucking mogged gen 2.

>>12431749
Gen 2 marked a downgrade in maps/dungeons and overall exploration. This is objectively true. Route sizes and so on, johto is smaller and more straight forward. This is not subjective. Liking less is generally bad for franchises. Pokemon now is a franchise full of constant upgrades and downgrades. It's a swinging pendulum. Gen 2 is just an obvious swung point.

What is, is the pokemon added. They are argued endlessly. I fully think pokemon did drop the ball here and it's why digimon and yugioh did so well. There was demand for "cool" monsters and those franchises delivered, why pokemon gave cows and dragonflies.

>As noted in multiple posts, the games have a severe lack of Pokemon availa—
>>12428936

>>12431807
>They're Pokemon games, they should be judged by their state on release. Obviously you can fix some of their issues nowadays through intervention
I'm not talking about modding. I just mean that there's not really much of a demand to trade between your physical Gen 1 and 2 Pokémon cartridges with your physical Gen 3 cartridges in the year 2026. People nowadays don't really go into the older games with the expectation of trading at all, even within a generation. It's really only the die hards that still do physical trading today.

I don't have much else to say but I did appreciate the rest of your points.

>>12431826
for a johtoddler, not having nighttime is unforgivable

let's just ignore gen I doesn't have nighttime either though

>>12431892
Their love for gen 2 is based entirely on autism
>it's just comfier when it's night outside and in the game too
>I can't stand any game that I can't bring all my 'bros' into

>hes talking to himself again

>>12431734
You're playing a very dangerous game, because this pompous attitude is what eventually led johto fans to get humbled hard

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>>12431948
people have had about 4 years now to come up with anti-gen 3 / anti-hoenn arguments and the best olders can do is the same shit they've said for the preceding 20 years and continue posting itt while the best the youngers can do is complain about no physical-special split and too much water

the difference is that gen ii / johto is actually fundamentally flawed and it doesn't take a great deal amount of intelligence to dismantle its illusion of quality, unlike with gen iii / hoenn

nor is there even a widespread desire to dispute that gen iii / hoenn is a top or the top gen / region

>>12431880
I disagree

>>12431963
I like gen 3 but gens 1 and 2 are just better, sorry anon

>>12431776
Crystal removing Mareep was the dumbest shit ever

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>>12432010
contrarianism is your choice >>12431718 >>12431751

>>12432015
Obviously a zoomer-skewed poll, if you didn't experience pokemania I don't care what your opinion is honestly

>>12432060
I don't think i ever heard of a single reasoning behind this kind of thinking.
Why would pokemania improve anyone's opinion on gen 1 when pokemania involved way more than just playing RBY? If anything, it just allowed people to LARP as pokefags more easily than anything.
Not that i agreed with the gen 2 hater but this is like Sonicfags trying to invalidate any criticism by saying "it doesn't count, nobody complained about it at the time (people did, in fact, complain about it)".

>12432074
lol it's so easy to make you kids seethe

>>12432006
fair, but I was explaining why people feel a certain way.

>>12432096
I'm not angry, i'm genuinely curious.

>>12432060
>"Obviously a zoomer-skewed poll"
>there's 3 posted, sharing the same result

I love gens 1-4, I started with gen 1. I think they all have their ups and downs, gen 3 had gameplay improvements but designs weren't as good as the original 151, that's my opinion

too much water
too much TRUMPET

>>12427548
no. Gen 3 is post-Pokemania, and therefore zoomer. Gen 2 is late millennial.

>>12431515
Pokemania peaked during and immediately after Johto launch, retard. Gen 3 was coasting on the legacy of Gen 2 and 1, and you can see sales fall off a cliff afterwards because it was such a step back.
>no day-night?
>can't go back to the prior regions?
>why do I have to surf everywhere?
>why can't I trade my Charizard into the game?

>>12432289
Gen 2 (also post-Pokemania) is mid-millennial and earliest-late millennial

>>12432291
>Pokemania peaked during and immediately after Johto launch, retard
that must be why it sold 9 million units *LESS* (15 million less in total) than the biggest gaming sensation in the world
>>12431727 >>12427591 >>12431776
>the legacy of Gen 2
yeah, it was inhabiting the wake of Gen 2's legacy—hence why it continued losing sales as people assumed it would be just as shitty as GSC
>you can see sales fall off a cliff afterwards
you can see that after Gen I, you dumbass disingenuous johtoddler (holy redundant)

>>12432291
>>no day-night?
>>can't go back to the prior regions?
>>why do I have to surf everywhere?
>>why can't I trade my Charizard into the game?
Fucking LMAO >>12431939

>expecting a comfy /vr/ thread
>get /v/-tier faggotry about muh sales
shame on you all

>>12427591
>Gen 4 mogs them all except for 1 and 2

>>12432648
Gen III outsold Gen II

>>12432663
>16+6
>23+6
Eeeeh... No
Also: Gen4>>>

>>12432695
N word, 16+10+6

>>12432904
Where's that 10 from, my R-word?
RFLG? That's not Gen3
Remakes (ORAS) don't count btw

>>12433039
>RFLG? That's not Gen3
This
It's a gen 3 remake of a gen 1 game, so it averages out to be gen 2

>why new game has less stuff?
>REEEE YOU FUCKING AUTIST LESS STUFF IS GOOD
I like gen 3 and all but it's "fans" are fucking retarded

>>12427480
Thats why gen 3 remakes of gen 1 exist. We got both technical, graphical and gameplay updates for the original games everyone loved.

>>12433039
lmao

>>12433051
>why new game has less stuff?
Because you define earth shattering new additions like brand new battle formats, abilities added to every single pokemon, and new things to do that aren't JUST battling (contests, secret bases) to be not a big deal, yet the day-night cycle is of absolute paramount importance

>>12433048
But Gen2 didn't get a parallel remake, like DPPt+HGSS (or did it?). It's not fair.

>>12433101
Yes, not even my opinion Day/Night become a mainstay. Can't say the same about all that shit except Double Battles which you are lucky if you have 2 during the whole adventure.
Even so the question remains, why new game has less stuff?

>>12431963
You're making too many assumptions about what people valued yesterday, today, and what they will value tomorrow. Up until a certain point nobody gave a shit that johto was the way it was but here we are. This is a transition from sovl-based thinking to autistic gameplay minmaxx thinking. You will find that in the future people will look at things differently again and things will come under fire in a different light. Believe it or not your assuredness in gen 3's invincibility is not unique to the children's game you personally swear by, because you can make arguments out of anything and for anything. Right now gen 3 is in a good place in terms of general reception and it makes people cockier than it would be since they are fitting in with the crowd. Give it some years and you will see for yourself.

My personal guesses is that it may be about a mix of soul and gameplay related issues: too much water (but autistic and serious about it), introduction to spamming legendaries, introduction to dexcut, removal of day/night, natures being a step backward, tajiri not being involved, unmemorable gym leader and elite four designs compared to previous gens, etc.

You can find an excuse to create problems just like you can find excuses to defend it in the same way. I don't necessarily think any of the examples above detract from the game too much but neither did johto fans before that video essay lol

>>12433061
Yeah but gen 1 wasn't designed around gen 3 mechanics and they didn't change things around to accommodate for it so the remakes end up being a totally different game than the originals, they shouldn't even count as remakes but a new thing that is separate lol.

>>12433039
A "generation" consists of all the games that came out within one era of hardware/anime/marketing. Pokémon Stadium is gen 1, Stadium 2 is Gen 2, the gamecube games are Gen 3, so it follows that FRLG are also gen 3

>>12433149
>N-N-N-NO I SWEAR THE AUTISTIC NITPICKS MY COHORT HAS BEEN SEETHING ABOUT NON-STOP FOR 23 YEARS IS FINALLY GONNA TAKE OFF ONE DAY EVEN THOUGH NOBODY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THEM IN 202X

>>12432341
Kill yourself you fencesitting/falseflagging faggot. You'd rather the johtoddlers get to shit on it without contest, attacks rooted entirely upon baseless nostalgiafaggotry.

>>12433101
You've btfo them, I assure you. Their response to this reveals how disingenuous and retarded they are.

>>12433120
>Even so the question remains, why new game has less stuff?
Doesn't, new game more stuff
Autists unhappy because game no turn dark
Autists unhappy because no Charizard
Understand?

>>12433223
Certainly doesn't feels like it has more stuff not even counting the Day/Night hoenns feels small
>you're just mad because muh charizard is missing
Lol the same shitty argument from unaborts whenever someone attacks their trashbag region, you can't catch Charizard in GSC or any other non Kanto game, what a shitty excuse

>>12433232
>Certainly doesn't feels like it has more stuff
See >>12433101

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>>12433242
Cool but that doesn't makes the game feel bigger or more alive, I personally would prefer not having to catch 6 geodudes because I rolled shit natures 5 times because we totally needed that retarded mechanic

>>12433246
>a complete revamp of how Pokemon fundamentally work and more shit to actually do isn't content
>having to wait overnight to be allowed to catch diurnal Pokemon is
Also
>complaining about having to catch Pokemon in Pokemon

>>12433263
>Yeah we made training and catching pokemon shit, enjoy battling 100 poochyenas if you don't want to ruin your started and enjoy catching 20 ralts until you get the two correct ones! Thar sucks? NOOOO ITS CONTENT

>>12433246
Imagine getting sweaty over an infamously easy PvE game like Pokemon.
This is a series where literal children solo damn near the entire game with their (likely sub-optimal) starter. Natures and IVs are peak, in part because they force the most annoying "people" to suffer their own OCD and work harder.

>>12433267
>Yeah we made training and catching pokemon shit
They didn't, natures and the change to EVs just made training require more thought than gen 2's "eh just max out all the EVs on everything" approach.

>>12433276
>>12433282
>hey where is the fun post-game of hoenn? I really enjoyed revisiting Kanto and The Sevii islands in GSC and FRLG
>Hoenn post-game? You mean 100 battles in a row autism and nothing else?
>battle autism? But gen 3 made getting good pokemon shit thanks to EVs and Natures!
>WHO THE FUCK CARES ABOUT GETTING GOOD POKEMON FOR BATTLES ITS NOT LIKE HOENNS ENTIRE POST GAME IS BATTLE AUTISM AGAINST PREMADE PERFECT EV/NATURES BOT TEAMS AGAINST YOUR STORY MODE SHITTERS!! STOP CARING ABOUT GETTING GOOD POKEMON AND PLAY NOTHING BUT BATTLE SIMS AUTISM WITH YOUR SHIT POKEMON

It's so funny when hoennbabbies try to defend the shit awful only battles post-game then act like EVs and Natures making getting good pokemon for said post-game doesn't matter
>>12433282
>they didn't make it shit they just made it harder for you to get good pokemon
So they made it shit, thanks

>>12433315
>I really enjoyed revisiting Kanto
Yeah rolling over all those trainers with level 30 unevolved Pokemon was such a fucking blast

>>12433321
Yes exploring new areas and battling the old gym leaders was much more fun and memorable that battling NPCs with nonsense dialgoue in some soulless tower copy

>>12433325
>Yes exploring new areas
*old, trimmed down areas
>battling the old gym leaders
*rolling over underleveled gym leaders
>battling NPCs with nonsense dialgoue in some soulless tower copy
*solving the mystery of the Regis, winning all the contests, building your perfect secret base

So many errors in your posts anon!

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>>12433232
>hoenns feels small
yous feel retarded

>>12433340
>Regis and contest
Not postgame

>>12433403
Neither is any of Kanto

>>12433205
This is just embarrassing.

>>12433345
>half is literally water
I thought it was less, yikes

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>>12433340
these

>>12431880
>Gen 2 marked a downgrade in maps/dungeons and overall exploration. This is objectively true.

That's not objectively true in any way, that's very much your personal view on them. I fibd the maps and locations of gen 2 more refined and a large improvement over gen 1. Don't get me wrong, the first Pokemon was amazing. But G/S/C took that idea and refined it so well. Pokemon was massive when I was in university and gen 2 hit in the midst of that so it seemed like everyone was playing. I don't know a single person who didn’t think it was a massive upgrade from the original. Even though I mostly like it, that's not something I can say at all about gen 3.

I don't know you so I don't know why gen 3 imprinted so heavily specifically, but I can say from having known many many people who played the series from the start that your opinion on them is highly unusual.

>>12433494
>That's not objectively true in any way, that's very much your personal view on them.
It is, it's measurable by distance and time, if you don't believe me measure and time it yourself. This is not an opinion, it's a fact. If you don't know the difference between objective and subjective, try this. Get a 4 legged chair, break 2 legs off, try to sit in it. That's objectively bad. Pick a chair that is your favorite color to sit in it, that is subjective.
>I don't know you so I don't know why gen 3 imprinted so heavily specifically, but I can say from having known many many people who played the series from the start that your opinion on them is highly unusual.
I like gen 1, 2 and 3 a great deal. I actually don't think I could pick a favorite between them. However, I talk with a lot of gen 3 people and was merely explaining other peoples opinions. I shared mine on pokemon designs that Ive heard shared by many others and that's all, I shared no other opinion and you are jumping to a big conclusion based on very little.

>>12433494
>anecdotes anecdotes anecdotes
ok

>>12433612
Gen 2 is a much better chair in every way so your analogy is off.

>>12433614
That's my experience. Maybe someone who grew up with gen 3 as one of their first games has a different view. From the many people I knew starting with the first game, gen 3 was when things started feeling samey.

>>12433614
When comparing the impressions people have of a franchise, anecdotes of those someone personally knows will be the most reliable metric they can go off of, yes. You never know how old the responders to online polls actually are or how legitimate the voting is to begin with, but someone can definitely say that the people they knew and grew up with had a particular set of opinions and experiences with one of the most popular game series on the planet.

Fact is, if you were alive and in school when Gen 1 came out, chances are every single person you knew was playing it, watching the anime, collecting the cards, or some mixture of all three. With Gen 2's release, there was some dropoff from it no longer being an all-encompassing phenomenon thanks to the anime petering out and the card game craze only enduring for the initial sets since most people didn't actually play it. But as far as my own experience goes, those who played the games absolutely adored Gold and Silver even more than Red and Blue, and other anons like >>12433494 seem to have had a similar experience despite being in a different age range at the time.

Yet even as someone on the younger side of personal experience, by the time Gen 3 came around there was an enormous dropoff with most people I knew still playing being not terribly impressed with it. Multiple points made in this thread stuck with most everyone: Double battles and natures were more annoying than interesting, abilities were cool but too limited. Night cycle and daily events being gone was a huge loss in immersion. The region had some cool locations but the sheer amount of Surfing was universally hated, and EVERYONE was crushed when they beat the game and there was no second region. Most people I knew IRL were unaware of EVs at the time, but the idea behind them was viewed largely negatively online outside of the eventual NetBattle. And even that was only necessary because it was now too much of a chore to train your own mons.

>>12433730
>Gen 2 is a much better chair in every way so your analogy is off.
You just straight deny there's objective things and lump them in with subjective things. You just gave up the argument and missed the point entirely. The question was why people get so triggered over people liking gen 2, and you can't listen or explore other peoples opinions at all to the point you have to state your own and have it become the topic of what the conversation .... which wasn't what it was even about.
>Maybe someone who grew up with gen 3 as one of their first games has a different view
I agree with the other post, anecdote. You are starting from the position of "if you dislike gen 2, you must have started with gen 3" because you aren't hear to listen, you have already made up your mind, cause why challenge the way you think?

>>12433754
>When comparing the impressions people have of a franchise, anecdotes of those someone personally knows will be the most reliable metric they can go off of, yes
Have you tried comparing the games? Pretty reliable metric.

>>12433964
This thread and the very post you quoted have repeatedly gone into what Gen 3 both introduced and took away, as well as the reactions existing players had to said changes.

>>12434009
From a clear biased position. As it highlights none of the improvements gen 3 made over gen 2. Or any of the failings gen 2 had compared to gen 1, that perhaps gen 3 succeeded at. I mean, look at this.
>and EVERYONE was crushed when they beat the game and there was no second region
Not just anecdotal, hyperbolic and wrong.

>>12433157
Correct opinion. Ground pokemon were placed to counter ghosts, but all the ghosts now levitate. Same with many other poison Pokémon. This would be fine if wild encounters were shuffled so that appropriate party members were now present, but they weren't. Now it feels almost arbitrary.

Sure, you can beat everything anyway because it's Pokemon, but that doesn't change that it's shit design.

>>12434120
>implying gen 3 made any improvements
Funny joke, anon

>>12433061
And yet they ended up being worse games in every sense, funny how that happens

>>12433961
I don't deny there are objective things, I deny your claiming the areas in gen 2 are akin to a chair with broken legs because they have better and tighter design.

It seems very odd to me in my experience that someone who started playing with gen 1 has this attitude that gen 2 was a broken downgrade and gen 3 fixed it all. Maybe you're telling the truth but it seems pretty weird.

>>12434120
>Not just anecdotal, hyperbolic and wrong.
Yeah, let me go tell everyone I knew back then that they were silly to expect a postgame experience rivaling Gold and Silver's on the superior console. Gold and Silver had the SS Aqua (not to mention the train) but it's totally unreasonable for people to see a water-heavy region with its own SS Tidal and expect that it'll have a function more impactful than sailing between areas in the same region, Emerald events copied from FRLG not included.

>>12431734
It's the start of the digimonification of poke mans. everything started to go to shit with gen 3, with just a few improvements like the stat split.
character designs, pokemon designs, the infinitely increasing handholding, coupled with the infinitely growing amount of "streamlining" of raising your mons. the death of the rival and last but not least the shit performance of the games since going 3d.

Gen 3 pokemon is the parallel of gen 6 of gaming as a whole. The beginning of the end.

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>>12431734
>calls people who enjoyed the original games toddlers because they didn't latch on to the version the devs made trying to make it seem edgy.

This is also one of your favorite games, isn't it?

>>12434427
>GSC
>Originals

>>12434495
Yes, gens 1 and 2 were original to gen 3.

>>12434427
you're new

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>>12434326
>It's the start of the digimonification of poke mans
no that's this
>Gen 3 pokemon is the parallel of gen 6 of gaming as a whole
the revival of a dying industry (gaming) / franchise (Pokemon)?

>>12434326
You can complain about everything else but I don't know how someone can look at gen 3's dex and call the pokemon in it badly designed, they are some of the best from a composition point of view and they still look like pokemon (not like gen 2 was using the exact same design sensibilities as gen 1 either). The shark jumping started after rse in that regard imo

>>12434120
It's been like 8 years of seeing johtoddlers try to defend their nostalgia on objective grounds and they've never succeeded nor even truly attempted it. It's very clear they have nothing to stand on and so will remain disingenuous until the end of days. They don't understand the concept of their subjective experiences and unsupportable claims not being sufficient evidence for their arguments, nor that denying objective data like sales and polls figures and developer quotations themselves as being superior forms of evidence is severely undermining to their own credibility as interlocutors.

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>>12434554
I'm actually very old, but rarely come here these days. That guy is calling others toddlers for not liking the third rehash of Pokemon as the best because its edgy. Not making a separate board destroyed this place.

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>>12434561
>(not like gen 2 was using the exact same design sensibilities as gen 1 either)
it wasn't at all, but to them it was okay because it was their childhood so it's perfect and peak regardless of how babyfied and dumbed down it actually was
they've seen picrel and images like it dozens of times now and still haven't changed their tune at all, pretending it doesn't exist

>>12434568
>That guy is calling others toddlers for not liking the third rehash of Pokemon as the best because its edgy
once again, you are a newfaggot
'johtoddler' non-uniquely belongs to a set of terms identifying each generational fanbase along the same decreasing age gradient

>>12434572
>I'm a newfaggot for not caring abkut some zoomer speak and liking the original games more than the GBA rehash

As I said, the rule change destroyed this board.

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>>12434581
>some zoomer speak
kill yourself you double-downing newfaggot

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>>12434581

>>12434590
>>12434591

I was in university when the first pokemon came out. Your kiddie buzzwords will always be kiddie buzzwords to me. I still like gen 3, but but it's the opinion of me and everyone I know of my age who were playing it then that it's when the series started it's downward slide to being samey and gimmicky. You can have whatever opinion you want, calling someone in their 50's a toddler for not prefering the third iteration of pokemon as the best or being hip to the lingo of people decades younger doesn't interest me much.

>>12427476
emerald ruined the story otherwise I agree

>>12434551
That's not how "originals" work.

>>12434632
emerald culminated the story

>>12434127
>gen 2 is better than gen 3 in every possible way
Why does gen 3 make gen 2 lovers seethe so hard?
>>12434567
They are wholly dishonest. You say Mt.Moon in gen 1 is the first true dungeon of the series and ask where is gen 2's dungeon? Sprout Tower is no way actually comparable, it's a climb, it's requires 0 navigation. Union cave would, but 75% of it is inaccessible on your first visit, it is also fully straight forward. It's literally impossible to get through to these people, cause they seriously think it's the same.

>>12434791
>Why does gen 3 make gen 2 lovers seethe so hard?

Because the first Pokemon was an amazing game, but had a handful of gameplay elements that weren't fully fleshed out. Things like the special attack and defense split for example. So when gen 2 came out, improved everything that was already there it felt like a huge upgrade. I don't know anyone eho seethed over gen 3, but other than better graphics it didn't feel like nearly the leap in quality from R/B to G/S. So while not a disappointment exactly, it marks the beginning of the series taking a down turn.

>>12434791
I love both but gen 2 is slightly better than 3, having no postgame really hurts the gen 3 games (except frlg)

>>12434146
>It seems very odd to me in my experience that someone who started playing with gen 1 has this attitude that gen 2 was a broken downgrade and gen 3 fixed it all.
You're hung up on my examples to explain concepts. I am in no way saying gen 2 is in all ways a broken downgrade. Me explaining objective vs subjective is not my personal opinion on all of gen 2.

Every pokemon generation takes steps forward and steps back. They all have pros and cons and jumble the pros and cons when a new generation comes out. It would be utterly absurd to say Gen 2 is an improvement on every thing gen 1 did. It simply is not. Same goes for 3 compared to 2. Gen 2 is objectively worse at some things than gen 1 and as I said, it's measurable. To say it ruins the experience? I won't say that. It does become subjective as to what you prefer in a game. The day of the week system. To some it's cumbersome, to some it adds depth. I think there's merit to debating it. Then there's the length of time to hatch eggs and the whole slow process of breeding? It's objectively bad and not what people want in a game. I've wiggled my D-pad enough, and Gen 2 is terrible at this. So it gets to a point where even objective things cannot be discussed with people. Most people who love these games will almost never consider another side. Like to me, the hand holding of the series started in gen 2.

What someone is looking for in a game is subjective. Those elements can be objective though. Say someone loves FF7's minigames, minigames are a big deal to them. Maybe they hate FF9's minigames. The room for error and controls within the minigames can be objective. I think it's very fair to say 7's are better than 9's Someone else could come along and not care about minigames at all, fair. Pokemon has a lot to it. There's many ways to evaluate what it has to offer. People can highlight what draws them in, but too often they then ignore what other people may like.

>>12434146
What the fuck are you talking about? Every genwunner I know dropped it at gen 3 because they couldn't transfer their pokemon

>>12434879
Yea, literally no one who played gen 1 touched gen 3, cold hard fact truth statement verified.

>>12434872
>It would be utterly absurd to say Gen 2 is an improvement on every thing gen 1 did. It simply is not.

I think it's an improvement in every way I can imagine. The one thing that seems to be kept getting mentioned here are dungeons from 1, but I see gen 2's general world design better.

>>12434904
You've never heard people complain about gen 2 before? Really? The only time you've heard complaints was in this topic?
Gen 2 issues compared to gen 1
>Less challenging
>Less exploration
>easier dungeons
>weaker story
>more HMs
>too much backtracking
>too many pokemon that aren't viable without grinding

That's just compared to gen 1, this doesn't include stand alone issues that would be unfair to compare to gen 1.

>>12434812
Agree with this. Gen 1 were awesome but flawed games, Gen 2 was like a gift from heaven at the time in how it tuned up everything that was already great and added even more on top, with twice the amount of content and twists on the world you already knew, while making the games more immersive than ever with the real-time clock, something extremely few games had done before. So when the next games came out and the main noticeable aspects were that the graphics looked better and they'd added aspects like abilities and double battles which, while fresh, honestly added more annoyance than anything at the time, while also stripping several features and the scale of the game down, it felt like a slap in the face.

On the abilities thing, it's important to remember that in Gen 3 they hadn't been fleshed out much yet, so it was largely giving a lot of mons surprise Levitate and shit like Effect Spore or Rough Skin on extremely common encounters which wasted the player's time, and the vast majority had completely useless abilities. Gen 4 had to go back and overhaul the whole system with second ability possibilities on older mons. It wasn't fun to eventually find out that the team you'd brought with you on your whole adventure sucked ass and couldn't be fixed due to them making the raising and catching mechanics significantly more convoluted, either. They didn't start making EVs and natures more transparent and malleable until way, way later.

>>12434872
The merits to an individual player point is very reasonable. I realize that the day and night cycle for example are far less important to someone who only played during the day anyways, versus someone who would sneak a light under the covers to play late into the night. It's a whole different vibe. Secret Bases are my absolute favorite Gen 3 addition, mixing records was admittedly extremely cool and having your own little alcove restored some lost comfiness. And yet they've barely been brought up in this thread.

>>12434949
Genuinely yes. Though maybe that's skewed due to my experience and the people I knew and played with. Gen 1 came out in my first year of university and was very popular. When gen 2 came out it was seen by everyone I knew as a massive improvement. I can't think of anyone at any point expressing that anything about it was a downgrade from the first. To address the things you mentioned

>Less challenging
The only actual challenge in Pokemon was vs battles and gen 2 improved those massively

>Less exploration
I don't really see this. Some areas aren't as sprawling but that mostly meant less emptiness. I think overall the world design of 2 is much better than 1

>easier dungeons
Again, the whole single player game is very easy in both.

>weaker story
I have never cared about the story of any of these games nor ever known anyone who did.

>more HMs
That's a good thing.

>too much backtracking
Never felt that way at all.

>too many pokemon that aren't viable without grinding
Same with Gen 1. If anything, gen 2 was an improvement.

I'm not saying I don't believe you feel the way you do, I'm just saying I find it very odd given my experience. Gen 2 for what I saw was the height of pokemania, people in the halls were battling and trading and I never once heard someone say something like "why aren't the dungeons bigger?"

As much as I did love them, it was the gen 3 games where I saw a lot of people drop the franchise.

>>12435014
NTA
>Though maybe that's skewed due to my experience
100%, I was in third grade for gen 3 and we universally loved it. Gens 1 and 2 were basically seen as trash next to the new games.
I started with Gold, then played Yellow, and I distinctly remember it feeling like "oh, now I'm playing the REAL Pokemon game".

>>12434841
>Battle Frontier
>not a postgame
>catching Mewtwo in a cave
>is a postgame
(You)

>thread about gen 3
>immediately devolves into seething over gen 2's superiority
funny how often this happens

>>12435020
I don't care about battling 50 trainers in a row

>>12435035
It's a thread about how gen 3 was the best and then the board disagreeing with that assessment. Go start a thread about how Street Fighter 3 is the peak of the series and you'll see the same thing. It's called "bait".

>>12435020
he's a falseflagging troll

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>>12435115
That's why I said (You). The drug doesn't hit right if the response is aware of your baiting.

>>12435037
That doesn't make it less of a post game.

>>12435043
>the board
a handful of forever salty and butthurt johtoddlers isn't "the board" goofy nigga

>>12435014
>If anything, gen 2 was an improvement.
making early game single stagers with base 120+ stats isn't an "improvement", it's lazy game design patching holes with crutches
also, lowest bst ever is sunkern and most useless mon ever is unown; guess what they have in common

>>12435125
Yes it does

>>12435126
>johtoddlers

Considering pretty much everyone boasting about gen 3 uses this same childish meme term, I find it hard to take them seriously. I only talk about my experience and the others I know personally who were into the games. If someone who was a child when I was in university likes the third poke game best that's a funny anecdote to me but largely meaningless.

>>12435214
/thread

>>12435175
>childish
you're allegedly 50 something years old and arguing about Pokemon for days on end, and taking umbrage with being namecalled

you possess no self-awareness

>>12435014
You're flat out just in denial. Just because gen 1 isn't that difficult doesn't mean gen 2 isn't noticeably easier. I am using language that is more in line with video games as an adult, so you're right, you probably didn't hear people say things like "grind" and "time sink". How about this "its easy" and "it's short" but you just won't admit it. Gen 2 is easier and shorter than gen 1.
>more HMs is good
Really? We needed whirlpool, and waterfall? And lets not ignore rock smash and headbutt. This is a good thing? Lets hear why you feel this is an improvement upon gen 1.

>>12435160
It doesn't actually.

>>12427482
Ok millenial or Alpha faggot

>>12427486
Seethe Millennial.

>>12429097
X and Y are the worst games anon.

>>12435175
Johtoddler is a vp slang in the same vein as Genwuner and used by people outside of gen 3fags.
Iirc, Gen 3 had hoennbaby and Gen 5 had unovabortion but i don't remember the others.

>>12435020
Technically there is a difference between post-game and end-game. Battle tower and battle fronteir fall more in line with end game over post. Crystal and Ru/Sa both have a tower.

It's weird to me to define a game but what you can do after you beat it though. Did it not have enough leading up to the final battle? Ru/Sa has a ton of stuff do, way more to do than GSC prior to the elite 4. It's dumb to compare it. The content exists either way, what difference does the order of it make? They're both fairy non-linear anyway.

>>12435309
Headbutt wasn't an HM and you never NEEDED to use it outside of battle to beat the game.
Rock Smash is also useless after burnt tower.

>>12435347
Oh, well you don't need to do Kanto beat the game, so lets stop counting that too then.

>>12435336
Until Sun and Moon yeah, but that's not /vr/

>>12435339
Sinnohfetus is the one I remember for gen 4.

>>12435308
I'm not arguing anything, I'm stating my opinion and experience. I find it kind of interesting there are actually people who think gen 2 was a low point of the series improved by 3 so I'm interested to hear their reasons.

>>12435309
My experience with all the pokemon games I've played is that the main is incredibly easy. Maybe on some scale R/B were like 4/10 difficulty and G/S was 3/10 but it's about the same. The base game is an easy way to collect and raise pokemon for vs battles. As for HMs, yeah. They were used to make more areas with things to unlock and look for. I don't consider it as much an improvement as the stats being fixed or the time of day, but it's overall a bonus to me.

Gen 1 becomes a joke after you get psychic, ice beam and joke
Gen 2 is decently hard until you get to Kanto but then you fight Red

Gen 1 only has a harder early game.

Gen 3 has a tons of trainers you can grind on you could probably even get a Flygon without much issues

>>12435342
Technically Kanto in gen 2 isn't a fucking postgame. Yeah, you see the credits, but only a coping retard would tell you you beat the game at the Johto Elite 4. For fuck's sake, they're 20 levels lower than the Kanto E4.

>>12435421
>For fuck's sake, they're 20 levels lower than the Kanto E4.
in RBY, to be clear

>>12435421
Technically means yes, you "beat the game" at the elite 4. This is part of the weakness that is gen 2 debates. They try to give gen 2 credit for everything. Kanto as post game shouldn't count, cause johto is so small without kanto. So if Kanto is post game, then gen 2's main game sucks. They always refuse to pick one, cause on inevitability means gen 2 sucks at something.

>>12435456
Right, gen 2 actually sucks because they have to pretend that Kanto is "muh based extra content" instead of "the extra third of the game that we forgot to program."

>>12434570
All of these mons look great, zoomer

>>12435463
>more content is... le bad actually

>>12435537
>the same amount of content (smooth gradient to level 60) masked as a postgame is... le good actually

>>12435537
rinky dink versions of kanto towns? Gen 3 has less towns than GSC, but all them are thought out and some of them are very big. This is more content than GSC. Hoenn is a larger region than Johto/Kanto of GSC. So it's more content, so that makes it gooder than less.

>>12435421
>you saw the credits but you didn't beat the game because you didn't grind

>>12435569
beep boop

>>12435568
>gooder
your brown

>>12435537
Hoenn is bigger than Johto and Kanto combined

>>12435358
No ones even going over the issues I hear people bitch about gen 2 for endlessly. The pokemon. Babies, and joht mons in kanto, and straight animals and where's the ghosts and dragons? And the anime being the most slow milked thing ever. Gen 2 is a low point in the series, it rode off the success of gen 1 so much. It did enough fun things that people forgave it for all the bad things it did.

>>12435576
>your

>>12435586
u brown nigga

>>12435576
Im mocking someone who also talked like a retard, retard.

>>12435593
your a johtoddler doe

>>12435582
>No ones even going over the issues I hear people bitch about gen 2 for endlessly. The pokemon. Babies, and joht mons in kanto, and straight animals and where's the ghosts and dragons?

Where do you hear about that? Is it something younger people said? I've never heard that from anyone.

>>12435605
>I never heard anyone complain about this stuff
Bro, did you have friends growing up? Message boards, chat rooms? Random people? Where did you live when gen 2 came out, bumfuck Ohio?

>>12435605
Right when it came out. Lance capping at level 50 especially was a big talking point.

>>12435610
Not him, and IDK about you, but gen 2 was in that perfect normalfag zone where they got sick of the initial advertisement wave, while autists were still salivating for more. I remember trying to talk to normalfags about it, and that is specifically when I learned that "autists" are more worth my time.

>>12435610
NTA, but I AM from Ohio, and we pretty much felt like gen 2 was a complete downgrade, but more because
>total lack of dungeons relative to the first gen
>awesome designs like the starters, Mewtwo, and the legendary birds were cut in favor of bullshit

>>12435623
See? Even fucking Drew Carey agrees.

>>12435020
Think he was referring to the Sevii Islands with FRLG, since they are essentially a postgame area. It's certainly more than RS had.

>>12435721
>YOU EXPECTED A POSTGAME?
>GO CATCH 60 MONS, YOU STUPID GOY
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>12433415
The theme of the plot is land vs sea you fucking retard. It’s meant that way as a plot device.

>>12435581
>50% water
Yeah, nice try

>>12435336
that's B and W

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kino

>>12435886
>hoenn invented version exclusives/obvious counterpart mons
Literally fucking Pidgey and Spearow and more do that since Gen 1

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>>12435904
>point about duality and thematic counterparts
>counterexample is Pidgey and Spearow

>>12435749
>they made the region god awful because of the plot!
then they shouldn't have gone with a plot like that. when a ridiculous amount of the player's time is spent surfing and encountering the same 3 mons you'd think they would have realized their mistake, but it's very easy to shit out a bunch of large boring water routes and claim scale like never before.

It may just be that it was the 3rd time that I played through a pokemon game, but this is where I feel like Pokemon was pretty much done.

Gen 4 felt like the beginning of Pokemon starting to get shitty. Kids probably will love it no matter what game you start them off with, so it'll print money forever.

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>>12435623
Mean while digimon has DNA fusion monsters, dragon warrior monsters and robopon is trying to snipe players. Then next year you get monster rancher 3, yu-gi-oh. Where is cyborg mewtwo from the anime? Steel type is a thing, can we get a steel type mewtwo? Lugia, the fuck is this? Charizard really s just obviously the cooler thing to kids than Typhlosion. No one would have minded the same starters again. Maybe give us split evolutions for them instead of whole new sets? Gen 2 pokemon were derpy and lame, and unless it's someones first day on the internet, this is not news.

>>12435037
What? That's what the game is anyway. Did you suck at it?

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You meet your father in gen 3. That breaks the ground rules of jrpgs. You're supposed to be a kid/teenager/young adult going on a journey, with bonus points of some odd setup where in your hometown an old guy is probably banging your single mother or older sister, like professor oak. Just like real life haha.

>>12427476
I considered Gen 3 the best as a kid but I am bored whenever I try to play it. But I play Gen 2 and I love it. Why is this?

By all standards Gen 3 beats it: best Pokemon selection before it went to shit, the bikes, the graphical fidelity, more fleshed out map, and the music is incredible. But I don't know, something just doesn't feel so adventurous about it compared to Gen 2 and I can't put my finger on it. I know one of the reasons is that I simply prefer the sprites and art style of Gen 2 a whole lot more, but that can't be the only reason. Is it the excessive use of water? Is the story of Wally just really shitty and uninteresting to me? Does the scaling feel worse or is the leveling too fast? I don't know, but something isn't right

>>12435909
Yes half of Kanto does that too, Hoenn didn't make that, after all its just a wannabe reboot that chickened out