is RGB video REALLY all that much better on retro consoles than S-Video? enough to justify expensive hardware mods?
If you want to play on a scaler so it looks perfectly sharp like an emulator then it's definitely worth it jump over to rgb. On a crt s-video and RGB look pretty much the same to me. If the console already supports s-video but not RGB then I would not bother modding it in that situation unless whatever you can't use s-video.
>>12429850Your TV's jungle chip will make a bigger difference than the cables you use. don't@me
>>12429850I would SCART mod my big ass 32 in CRT if I knew what I was doing.
>>12429850No.
>>12429850>anti-soul cablesno. S-video is all you need. don't come at me with that composite shit, dot crawl fucking sucks.
There's no right or wrong. Just personal preference.
Im finna SCART all over this bitch's face.
>>12429850No. Also the devs weren't expecting you to be using rgb anyway.
>>12430020There's no way you would have that much blur difference between svideo and composite. Get out of here with your emulator screenshots.
>>12430031Nigga, I was answering the OP question: s-video vs scart Obviously composite is not an option.
>>12430041nigga you were answering it with a lie with that screenshot.
>>12430057then post a better or legit screenshot
>>12429850>on retro consolesNo, not really, especially if you're playing on a CRT.S-Video, hell, even Composite is good enough.
>>12429850>is RGB video REALLY all that much better on retro consoles than S-Video?Yes, it's a total night-and-day difference. The higher clarity in the image is obvious and unmistakable.Thing is though, these consoles were designed to be connected over RC or Composite at best to a SD resolution CRT screen, and many took advantage of that to create effects or colors they could not do with their hardware. So you might be getting too clear an image for those effects to work. If you are connecting the console to a modern display then yes, definitely go the RGB route because those effects aren't going to work well over composite on a modern display anyway, if it even renders the signal properly and does not start interlacing between frames. At that point might as well just get the clearest image with RGB.If you are planning to use an upscaler then definitely go RGB, the higher quality the image you feed into the upscaler the better the end result will be, even if your intention is to apply filters to make it look like a classic CRT screen.
>>12429850Yes>>12429892Just get PVM>>12430027Proven false countless times.>>12430031Mega cope, composite is terrible.>>12430085Don't use LCD, if you don't play on Composite or SCART you don't belong on /vr/, because you aren't into retro gaming enough to drop a measly couple grand on the elite true experience.
>>12429850Yes, it is. Coin-ops showcased the latest and best tech for decades, and until the introduction of flatscreens, used monitors running an RGB signal from the late '70's onwards as a standard. There were exceptions to the rule; early vector monitors that used a single electron gun with one type of phosphor, and hi-res VGA monitors. No S-Video, no composite, and definitely no RF.
>>12429857>Sharp as a scaler/emulatorWhy you people keep comparing it like that? RGB is just free from faultyness and gives the cleanest signal, the display determines how the signal ultimately looks. Comparing it to emulators or scalers is stupid because this is how it really looks raw
It's a tad sharper, so if you wanna sharpness, use RGB. S-Video is just a middle ground that satisfies no one, either go composite for blending or RGB for sharpness.
>>12429850For me it is as I prefer how things were in the arcades and PC games that I played. I've been searching for mod work to be done to a lot of hardware for RGB. From TVs, to consoles, to computer parts, it is why I work all the time to save up enough such that one day someone can do the difficult mods.
It's not like you too mod that much
>>12430163It's not a comparison so much as it is practical advice. S video is already a sharp solution for use on a crt. But if you look at it naked, blow it up, and take away the filtering, masks, and scanlines then it simply can't compete.
If you actually play games and don't just st 3 inches from your CRT all day to stare at the phosphors you won't notice a difference
>>12430031>Composite is super sharp!!!!>but Composite also blends dithering!!!!>Composite is perfect and does everything!!!!
I use a Portta on a 4k tv. I dont care about le image quality. I sit 10 ft from my tv and if i'm not viewing a side by side comparison it doesnt matter at all
>>12430314You can see the difference no matter how far away you are
>>12430237Do the mods yourself, start out with easier ones like n64, and work your way to hard ones like NES. It's a good time, and soldering is a good skill to have when you like retro games.>>12429850Depending on your set up there's a pretty clear difference, like people have said, using a large modern tv and an upscaler will show it off the most. I've RGB modded all my consoles and love it. For what it's worth I have an analog Morph4k and an OLED tv. Ultimately it's preference, but it's also a rabbit hole, which is likely a big reason people don't actually go for it.
>>12430163I think what he's saying is RGB is too clinical, I get what you're saying with "how it really looks like" because that's how the image exists inside the console. But it's also valid to argue it isn't how the games were "meant to look" because nobody developing or playing the games ever saw them like that.
The jump from composite to s-video is bigger than the jump from s-video to RGB. Worth buying special cables if your set/console supports it? sureWorth going out of your way to mod something and fuck it up? eh
>>12430020Composite is very much wrong here. That Sol sprite was designed for a 31khz RGB arcade monitor. It was never supposed to be that blurry.
>>12430106>Proven false>only proof is for random arcade gamesThey put composite in the console boxes fucker.
>>12430085>these consolesI don't play console games.
>>12431197You want a medal?
>>12429850Fuck, this reminds me of monster cables. I always wondered this, too. But back then HD tvs were a luxury.
>>12430313Dude that pic isn't even of an actual tv. It doesn't represent anything. Quit seething and quoting no one.
>>12431204Assuming you're talking about HDMI cables, no. Those were completely BS. HDMI is rated for a specific digital bandwidth. With a digital signal it's all or nothing unlike an analog signal. Don't misunderstand, digital cables have different ratings for bandwidth, but that's so it can carry larger resolution and is not related to picture quality outside of things like a higher resolution or bells and whistles like HDR that would require a higher BP/S rating.Hope that makes sense.
>>12430020The next stage would be to add smart antialiasing to get back some of the smooth edges.
Theres literally no excuse in the year of the lord 2026 to still use compositeyou can buy 5USD rgb cables and 20USD RGB to component transcoder at Aliexpress
>>12429850The main reason to use RGB is if you're an eurofag and want to use Japanese or American consoles/games. The vast majority of PAL CRT TVs don't display NTSC composite or s-video in color, so the only way to get color is to use RGB cables.As for image quality, it's entirely dependent on the console in question. PS1 composite vs RGB? Not that different. Sega Genesis composite vs RGB? Massive difference, but many games were also built to take advantage of the shitty composite encoding. N64 composite vs modded RGB? Not worth the effort at all.
>>12431282Its funny you use the genesis as an example because thats specifically a case where the devs had to design their games graphics in mind with the consoles crappy output. Comix zone is a decent example. Any game you see with horizontal black or white lines is a dead give away that those lines were meant to be blurred together when seen on your regular old consumer set.
I have a PVM and I realized I like all the types of analog signals. I still play NES/SNES on a consumer composite TV sometimes.But my normal setup is:NES - CompositeN64 - S-VideoSNES - RGBPS2 - ComponentThey can all be hooked up at the same time and I can switch between them with the PVM itself which is my favorite part.If you didn't get a pvm a decade ago when they were cheaper then I wouldn't worry about it and just stick with consumer composite. There's something special about a beater 13". Never had a consumer TV that took s-video but those are cool too I guess.
>>12429850I just use the best official cables that can connect to my TV. It depends on the console whether I use composite, s-video or component.
>>12431196>They put composite in the console boxes fucker.My old component capable DVD player came with a Scart cable only capable of composite, my hi-fi separates came with no phono or speaker cables,etc. What's your point?
>>12431289PAL CRTs generally became capable of displaying NTSC composite and S-Video in color from the mid-to-late 1990s and early 2000s onwards. Most CRTs made before the mid '90s (anywhere) aren't worth buying.
>>12431251Interesting. The ones I had in mind were for the ps2 so most likely HDMI.
>>12432004I doubt the company that made that dvd player was making movies specifically around it's hardware and what they gave you in the box. What a shit analogy.
>>12432063>I doubt the company that made that dvd player was making movies specifically around it's hardwareQuite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever read. You're a simpleton. A pathetically desperate straw clutching one, at that. Keep self flagellating with your poorfag cables, shit-for-brains.
>>12432135Nice counter argument.
>>12429963>>12430106>>12430116>>12430313>>12431282i use RF :0)
>>12429850Who told you that? On a CRT S-video and RGB are close to the same.. Both look way better than composite even on a CRT though.
>>12432203>>Who told you that? On a CRT S-video and RGB are close to the sameNot really true, many CRT tvs were actually capable of displaying a much clearer image than over composite, it's just that composite or at best s-video was the best inputs they had. There are people who mod CRT TVs with RGB inputs, and they look far clearer than anyone ever expected them to with RGB over any other connection. It's not possible to do this with every set, and I think it's mostly done on sets from around the 90s and later, but many sets are viable to mod.Picrel is of an RGB-modded Trinitron, there are many videos and pictures of people who RGB modded their CRT sets.
>>12432168based
>>12432161Hey, thanks. It's an appropriate respose to something that's bordering on schizophasia. Fucking pinhead.
>>12430313that's 480i dude
>>12432473I accept your concession and your malding.
>>12431282>wrong colors on RGB>RGB is le superior!lmao
>>12429850There is a difference but it's far less of a jump than from composite. The main reason I went down the RGB rabbit hole was because I grew up with the nintendo and genesis, and when I dug them back out in the mid 2010s and got back into them, I was dissatisfied with the video output. NES's simple graphics made things like dog crawl and smearing very apparent, and genesis composite is notoriously horrible and looks far worse than composite from literally any other console. If these consoles had the option for native s-video output, I probably would've stopped there. But for the nintendo you'd need to do the NESRGB mod for anything better than composite, and genesis has crisp RGB. So I started off getting RGB cables for the genesis and a component transcoder, and then later on finding a PVM back when you could get those for a cheap price, and eventually doing the NESRGB mod myself, etc. And since I was going down the RGB route I figured I might as well do RGB for my other consoles too. But yeah, if s-video were available for all those old consoles I honestly would've just stopped there.
>>12432168>>12432265Based AF. Channel 3 or 4?
my tv is so old that i dont have rgb ports... only rwy...
>>12432705
>>12432745Composite colors are wrong bud.
>>12434639This is never the case with the genesis. The devs knew what they had on their hands and had to work around it.
>>12434695Japanese developers known to work on RGB work stations making games for an RGB equipped console for three major regions, two of which have a household standard of RGB equipped TVs CLEARLY prioritized one of the three possible outputs. Not the best one that they were seeing when they developed it, not the most common one RF, but the middle one of middle value that was arguably least common globally at the time.You're in your own little world huh?
>>12435242>we'd use that blurriness to create intermediate colors>We started designing everything to make use of the blurriness
>>12435271Ah yes. One developer many years after the fact claimed they did it intentionally.
>>12435271Bro, NES didn't have RGB out. You retarded? You were talking about Genesis.
>>12435284>>12435289Read it again idiots.
>>12429857>On a crt s-video and RGB look pretty much the same to meBlind fuck.
>>12435290One developer decades after the fact claiminging something? Nah, I read it right, it just doesn't prove anything.
>>12435298Well if you actually read it you'd see there's 3 devs there and not 1. And if you weren't high on your own copium you'd also realize that it was the norm throughout the industry for console game development.
>>12435307Nah, taking the account of one developer (as in game making company, didnt think I needed to clarify on that, but here we are.) Decades after the fact and assuming that means all developers including Konami chose their colors based on composite even though that's not what they were developing on or for the most part for is the essence of copium. You have no argument here.
>>12434639Sega: Here's a console with RGB out.Also Sega: No! You're not supposed to use RGB out!
>>12435341Yeah 99 percent of people didn't have rgb crt's in the 90s.
>>12435271Original famicon only had RF out. So your claim of a japanese game being designed for composite isn't at all realistic. Furthermore square is known for retconning shit.
>>12435354>no one I knew had it, so no one had itSee Europe and Japan.
>>12435368I never made a claim about composite for the nes, only the genesis. The bit about the nes only serves to further the point that large devs in the industry were thinking about how the game would show up on players tvs. It makes sense that you would develop for the lowest common denominator. This has been true in video game development for decades.>Furthermore square is known for retconning shit.Extreme cope.
>>12435378No one gives a fuck about PAL fags. Japan didn't have nearly the number of rgb sets kicking around that you think they do.
>>12435379Lowest common denominator was RF, not composite. Quoting one dev who made the claim 30 years after the fact is hardly proof that japanese devs were designing their games with a standard they largely weren't even using in mind. Sorry man, just not enough proof for the grand claim you're making, way more proof to the contrary.
>>12435385You devilish fucker hahahahhahahha
>>12435385>Lowest common denominator was RF, not compositeIt was in the 80s which is why the famicom only had rf out. Then in the 90s enough sets had composite that it became a safe bet. The stragglers could use a modulator. If anything, the burden of proof is on you that the majority of household sets accepted rgb signals.
>>12435381Translation: nuh-uh.Man, solid argument there. Of course Japanese people didn't have RGB, that's why virtually every japanese console outside of about 2 of them had it.
RF is composite video sent through an antenna with audio. Those white final fantasy mountains are already colorfully distorted before the signal even becomes RF lol
>>12435403I'm still waiting on those numbers anon. If virtually every japanese house had an rgb crt like you claim then why would virtually every japanese console outside of the nes have composite? Why not just have rgb an rf?
>>12433302always 3
>>12435419The audio distorts the signal further. There is definitely a major difference between rf and composite so if the devs were intending you to play with rf then it makes sense.
>>12435368rf carries a composite signal, it just shares the bandwidth with the audio. retard.
>>12435403Consoles have rgb out because its the simplest signal to output since consoles natively work in rgb pixels. That has nothing to do with the number of people who actually used that signal.
>>12435527Pretty obvious he meant the composite cables. Regardless of what the signal is based on its massively distorted through RF, so claiming that devs were targetting some standard signals quality is pointless, as RF is subject to massive interference which would defeat the point. Furthermore there are many types of displays out there, pvms, bvms, and Trinitrons all display stuff differently even when using composite. To claim developers were attempting to 'blend pixels artistically' isn't really a thing since it would have looked different in almost any set up due to all above mentioned factors.
>>12435515It says virtually all japanese consoles have RGB out, not all Japanese people had RGB TVs.
>>12435669Yeah they all had tvs with composite input.
>>12430237Yo pic-anon do you have the male to male cables for the xbox breakout box? I have never seen a high-rez pic of them.
>>12430359I heard the UltraHDMI mod for the N64 was for advanced and skilled modders, that's why I got the Analogue 3D since no one dares to even want to do the UltraHDMI mod for me. Once I get a place with some ventilation aside from the washroom or stovetop, I hope to start some practice in soldering.>>12436093I do have those that are paired with it. It has alternating rings of rubber for better grip at the ends. I tried to dig them out from my big box of cables, but it's a bit of trouble to find them, as I use the heavy duty component cables my cable suppliers gave over the years instead. Sorry for my laziness, but these were on top of the big box of cables, the Monster S-Video cables for Xbox and PS2 (GC one is probably lower in the box).
>>12436194That's ok, thanks for looking pic-anon.
>>12435398It's not that games were designed with a specific output in mind. It's that they were designed to look good regardless of which one of the half dozen outputs people were using. Let alone all the different televisions that were available back then. You could have one person playing one an RF-only 13" hand me down and someone else on their big screen rear projection TV. It was a delicate balancing act. It's like overscan. TVs had all crazy ass differences in overscan so they just generally avoided putting important shit within a certain distance of the boundaries and made things like lifebars really big so if something did get cut off or warped you could still make it out.
>>12435660Can't tell if serious
>>12429850>enough to justify expensive hardware mods?Yes. Or just import a sony pal tv.
>>12436218>It's not that games were designed with a specific output in mindNo thats actually exactly what the situation is. Devs were taking advantage of the blurriness you would get from rf and to a lesser extent composite to create intermediate colors and gradients.
>>12436936[Citation needed]
>>12437105>>12435271
I'm not aware of any specific effects that would have been achieved via RF. All of the predictable blending and chroma distortions should appear whether you're viewing the composite directly or demodulated. But certainly on something like the original famicom, the developers would have been testing via RF.
